Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2023/11

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Azure

I want to add https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Az%C3%BArov%C3%A1(Azúrová, slovak wikipedia) to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q373058#sitelinks-wikipedia (azure, wikidata). But it says its locked can someone help please. Bakjb (talk) 17:22, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Linked sk:Azúrová and added a matching Slovak language label. -- William Graham (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you very much:) Bakjb (talk) 17:40, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:15, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding a recommendation for a minimum amount of identifiers to the property proposal template

Since there were some property proposals that were rejected or opposed because of having below 200 identifiers (e.g here), it would be good to warn proposers, that this could be an issue. A good place would be here or in this template.

There could be identifiers that are useful even below under 200 possible identifiers, so a recommendation would be enough, it doesn't need to be a hard rule probably. Kristbaum (talk) 11:27, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

 Support --Emu (talk) 12:45, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 Weak oppose I can see why some people might look down on sources with <200 IDs, but I don't think an arbitrarily chosen number should be a criterion for creation or non-creation of an ID property. Quality, not quantity should be our guideline. Jonathan Groß (talk) 16:38, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 Support but I'd encourage people to use described by source (P1343) with a URL qualifier as an alternative, as it makes the counting of usages and possible upgrade to a property easier. Vicarage (talk) 16:48, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 Support Could be added to the |number of ids= parameter in Template:Property proposal. It's an unofficial guideline that "each property should be expected to be used by at least 100 items". Dexxor (talk) 07:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
There is already a recommendation that new identifier properties should be used on at least 100 items (with the very rare exception). This means a property creator is expected to turn the proposal down. I agree it would be beneficial to add this to the pages you linked to. Vicarage's tip is good for these instances, also there is a described at URL (P973) for when you don't have an item. Infrastruktur (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 Support I think this seems a very good idea. It doesn't need to be a firm rule, but it's good to give people a steer. Andrew Gray (talk) 00:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

QuickStatement anti-abuse measure (rate limit?)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T350262

Hello, I have a batch for QuickStatement to create 90 new items for cultural monuments. Since yesterday, I get the error message:

Cannot automatically assign ID: Im Rahmen einer Anti-Missbrauchs-Maßnahme kann diese Aktion in einem kurzen Zeitabstand nur begrenzt oft ausgeführt werden. Diese Grenze hast du überschritten. Bitte versuche es in ein paar Minuten erneut.

which translates to

Cannot automatically assign ID: As part of an anti-abuse measure, this action can only be carried out a limited number of times within a short period of time. You have exceeded this limit. Please try again in a few minutes.

Even if I try to execute the batch several hours later (instead of a few minutes), the error message persists. Has anyone an idea, how or when it would be possible to execute this batch? Thanks a lot! M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:32, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

The error persists, independent if the statements are executed in foreground or as a background batch. M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Also see Help_talk:QuickStatements#QuickStatement_anti-abuse_measure_(rate_limit?) M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Galleys and cabooses

There are some mixing ups between Q497741 and Q893449 if you look at the interwiki links. Some are about the room to store food on a boat, some are about different specific rooms to cook food on a boat, some even about rooms to cook in other vehicles, haven’t had the time to look more into it, but I also don’t know anything about boats. If someone who’s more familiar with the subject want to unravel it, otherwise I will give it a try at some point. Nclm (talk) 13:06, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

A "galley" is a ship's kitchen. Apparently "caboose" is an archaic term for a galley (see: enwiki). It may be the origin of the word for the final car of a train (also according to enwiki). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:46, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Kingdom of Yugoslavia (inconsistencies/possible errors)

Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Q191077): country in southeastern Europe, 1929–1945 shows a range of dates that is inconsistent within the different language descriptions, and also seems somewhat jumbled in relation to related entities such as: Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (Q15102440): official name for the Kingdom of Yugoslavia between December 1918 and October 1929 (which if one searches by the name "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes" redirects to "Kingdom of Yugoslavia"); Democratic Federal Yugoslavia (Q1277557): former state in Southeast Europe between November 1943 and November 1945, etc.

I've spotted what looks like it may be a mistake here, but I'm not comfortable editing this sort of information (as it is above my skill level). For clarity, the problematic date seems to be "1943", but I'm not an expert on the history of this much disputed region either.

(For reference, I came across this discrepancy while attempting to add "start time" and "end time" properties to a "Yougoslavia" residence claim in: human : any member of Homo sapiens, unique extant species of the genus Homo, from embryo to adultDubravka Oraić Tolić (Q16112608): Croatian poet, essayist, translator, and theorist of literature and culture (b. 1943). The "suggestions" box shows the 1943 date which seemed off.) -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:31, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Bot-related question

Hello, is there a bot to add titles to references? If no, could one be created, preferably as described here? (Context: titleless citations are undesirable on Wikipedia and its citation templates report errors when processing them. The Wd module also reports an error on encountering them.) Alternatively to scraping titles directly from HTML tags, code from some of Wikipedia's citation fixing tools could be reused. Janhrach (talk) 13:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

@Janhrach: Please can you provide one or more examples of the kind of edit you mean? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:34, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Something like this. Janhrach (talk) 19:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you. I'd like to see wider discussion of whether this is a desirable thing to do, and in what circumstances, before a bot starts work. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:17, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

How to handle outcomes of elections

I am not sure how to handle outcomes of elections, specifically referenda and other ballot initiatives. There are four properties that seem reasonable: results (P2501), winner (P1346), successful candidate (P991) and victory (P2522) all of which are not really designed for ballot initiatives. results (P2501) claims that it is for "results of a competition such as sports or elections" however the French/German description describe a sports (cycling) use and it seems the election use was added later. On the other hand successful candidate (P991) seems more specific to elections but actually too narrow for a ballot initiative. I would like to have something in between that can cover both yes/no initiatives but also more complex cases. Any thoughts on this? For example Q3151245 and the other data items that were imported from the French wiki all use winner (P1346) but this causes a constraint violation in all these items.

Also to me it seems that "results" (as in results (P2501)) could/should probably be a super-property of the other more narrow properties that handle special cases of a "result". --Hannes Röst (talk) 18:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

There are number of support votes (P8683) and number of negative votes (P8682) for binary outcomes. I think for multi-option referendums the questions have been modelled using candidate (P726)/successful candidate (P991) (as well as winner (P1346) but I agree that's probably not the best property). Asking at Wikidata talk:WikiProject elections may elicit some more responses, too. M2Ys4U (talk) 05:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Two billion edits!

@Denny announced today that we have made over 2 billion edits! [1] - diff 2000000000 being at grugnire (L1210005). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

"According to" property

The statement CoRoT-11 b (Q9184117)mass (P2067)2.33 ± 0.27 was created by my script and currently has 3 references:

  1. CoRoT: Harvest of the exoplanet program (Q56168679)
  2. Doppler tomography of transiting exoplanets: a prograde, low-inclined orbit for the hot Jupiter CoRoT-11b (Q59246784)
  3. Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia (Q1385430)

Technically I've gathered the first two by scanning the aggregator's page, so I am looking for a way to correctly express this in reference, like

I need that because aggregators sometimes contain errors. If you open "Doppler tomography of..." on page 3, you will see that this specific article estimates planetary mass around 2.49 ± 0.27 Mjup. And I have that information in CoRoT-11 b (Q9184117), because I've imported it from a different aggregator (Exoplanet Archive (Q5420639)). For a specific property I can write a query and find statements that for the same item have the same source but different values, but I'm unable to identify which aggregator they were imported from.
Do you think this particular case should be expressed via additional "according to" reference property and if yes, could you propose any existing property for that? Ghuron (talk) 10:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

statement supported by (P3680) is probably what you are looking for. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
If I would be allowed to use a qualifier on a reference, that would probably be it, but the data model does not allow me that.
Some people suggest decorating such sources with inferred from (P3452) (see Q1040586#P1090 as an example). Ghuron (talk) 03:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
@Ghuron: inferred from (P3452) is very explicitely about data from statements on another item and not about what the item refers to. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q654724 does not contain any statements that support this claim, so it's a wrong use.
Given that none of the existing items do a good job, creating a new proposal would make sense. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 15:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
Wikidata:Property proposal/according to Ghuron (talk) 15:54, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Shariq

Hi, this item (Q5679154) is actually about a village in Iran, not a writer from Delhi. Because of this problem, I can’t add Country, population, etc. information needed for settlement. I tried myself to fix this, but I couldn’t. Can someone help me?—Gabbani (talk) 22:19, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, here's an item for the place: Shariq (Q123302393), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 22:30, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Q5679154 was originally a place; the English article was hijacked twice. The writer seems to be Indian, not Iranian, and a separate item (Q23760705) exists; the actor is Q113842460. The Egyptian Arabic article should be deleted or corrected; the Persian article now has the wrong infobox as it was added by a bot using Wikidata as a source. Peter James (talk) 22:42, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Can somebody please fix the incorrect capitalisation in the main menu

"Create a new Item" should be "Create a new item" etc Piecesofuk (talk) 07:55, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Apparently this has been the case since 2018, is there some reasoning behind it? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 13:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
See phab:T203335, phab:T275990. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:26, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Translating labels and terms

Hello! How can I translate various labels and terms in my language? If I use {{databox}} in my language, some of the parameters are in English. How to translate those? Ifteebd10 (talk) 23:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ifteebd10: you need to translate the label on Wikidata. For instance, right now, on bn:মেসিয়ার_৮১, in the databox, you can read "Child astronomical body Holmberg IX". This comes from Q81102410#P398 but child astronomical body (P398) and Holmberg IX (Q1498337) don't have a label in Bangla. You need to go to this property and this item and add it (with the "edit" button above the label box). Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Soft redirects to Wiktionary

We have 82 items matching a search for "soft redirect to Wiktionary"; for example Q109284139; they mostly have that string as a description. What should be done with them? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:47, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Most instance of (P31)->Wiktionary redirect (Q21278897) appear to have been added by The Distributed Game Psychiq. Maybe the game's creator @BrokenSegue: can comment? Or @Charles Matthews: who originally created the item. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 12:38, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
I see that I created Wiktionary redirect (Q21278897) seven years ago. That might have been inspired by the idea that soft redirects in the Dictionary of National Biography (Q1210343) on English Wikisource were being given items here (which someone else who is no longer around argued for) at that period.
Is there an actual problem here? Charles Matthews (talk) 14:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The wikipedia sitelink is the only thing that makes the item Wikidata-notable. The template appears to be used 1800 times on english wikipedia. You might want to ask there if you want to request the pages be bulk-deleted based on notability, and ask for the template to be marked as deprecated to prevent future use, I am not familiar with their policies, but it seems weird to have pages whose only purpose is to link to an external project when back in 2017 it was decided that there should be no sitelinks to wiktionary. The wikidata items themselves can not be removed until the english wikipedia page is removed. Infrastruktur (talk) 15:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

P27

Do you think it's okay for someone to write in the P27 element all the current and ever countries of the world? It takes approx. Write 1000 entities only to make it obsolete later? 94.44.243.201 16:19, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

There are no people where every country consider them to be citizens, so why would you want to make such claims? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Link for convenience: Property:P27. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Presumably this question is about the recent changes to country of citizenship (P27), where a deprecated one-of property constraint has been added which includes every current nation. The reasoning for the edits is in one of the edit summaries but I'm not sure what the point of such a constraint is. —Xezbeth (talk) 09:31, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The point is constraint provides suggestions for manual input (Q99460987). It's done to get better autosuggestions when adding values. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:14, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

ISNI format is going to change, deleting spaces

See discussion in property talk. --Epìdosis 16:11, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Q2446907

Correct the value of P571 of Q2446907 and correct the value of P1619 of Q2446907.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.226.143.57 (talk • contribs) at 04:47, 30 October 2023 (UTC).

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Family

I think family (Q94142000) and family (Q8436) are the same concept, at one point they were marked as different, but to me they appear to be the same concept, anyone agree? disagree? RAN (talk) 18:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

They are the same. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:13, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
Please always tag the user who is responsible for the edits, in this case @Geertivp: who introduced property different from (P1889) to this item. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Creating article

hello i want help to know more how to create an article in wikidata? Hamza mehddine (talk) 12:22, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

We do not have articles on Wikidata. This is a database. Ymblanter (talk) 19:57, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

How to delete a Mix'n'Match catalog?

Hello! Does anyone know how to delete a Mix'n'Match catalog? I need to remove https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/6035

We've changed the ID format for the property for technical reasons and the ids on M'n'M are now obsolete. TiagoLubiana (talk) 15:01, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@Magnus Manske, Epìdosis: can help you there. Jonathan Groß (talk) 15:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
It has already been done. But thanks @Jonathan Groß: for pinging me. @TiagoLubiana: in future cases you can write directly to Magnus Manske or to me. Bye, --Epìdosis 17:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

edit

Can Google Knowledge Graph ID (P2671) be added to Harald Krichel (Q640), the id is /g/11hzdprnc7 115.188.140.167 04:26, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

✓ Done, feel free to be bold and try it yourself. Karl Oblique (talk) 11:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Change sitelink

Can you change the idwiki sitelink for Q596391 to Apk (format berkas)?
Stevannus rua (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

✓ Done Karl Oblique (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 15:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Can someone check the edits on depicts (P180)

Seems to be someone trying to make some subtle (not so subtle) vandalism? Jane023 (talk) 09:51, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Newbie's error, not vandalism. Fixed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #601

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Discussions
    • AramBot (Task: adding site links, especially from ckbwiki and kuwiki pages to Wikidata).
  • Tool of the week
    • subclass of, new Observable tool to test which item is a subclass of another.
    • Newest WikiProjects: Source Reliability "is an effort to identify and aggregate online sources of assessments of the reliability and credibility of sources".
  • Development
    • Wikibase REST API:
      • We have implemented the endpoints for PATCH /entities/items/{item_id}/aliases (phab:T337371), PATCH /entities/properties/{property_id}/aliases (phab:T342982) and PATCH /entities/properties/{property_id}/labels (phab:T342980)
      • We started working on the new endpoints for POST /entities/items/{item_id}/aliases/{language_code} (phab:T335842) and DELETE /entities/items/{item_id}/descriptions/{lang_code} (phab:T342986)
    • Language codes:
      • We made Special:NewLexeme more likely to guess the spelling variant for you by changing the Property we use to get the language code. Now you will see the spelling variant input pop up less often. (phab:T349652)
      • We started work towards allowing many more languages by default for Wikibase Lexeme and monolingual text statements. This will remove the need for a lot of requests for new language codes to be added. (phab:T341409)
    • Query Service UI: We’ve fixed a small issue in the Query Service UI that was introduced when updating CSS variables. Content of selected cells in the query result should be readable again. (phab:T350153)
    • EntitySchemas: We are continuing the work on the new data type for linking to EntitySchemas, working on overcoming architectural issues.

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Paywall

How do we note that a link is behind a paywall for "described at url"? Sometimes an obituary is behind a newspaper paywall, but the information is important for someone who may be writing a biography of that person. RAN (talk) 19:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

There is online access status (P6954). This and access restriction status (P7228) both allow "paywall" as a value but the scope of P7228 does not currently include references. (These properties overlap - can they be merged, or is there a reason to keep them separate?) Peter James (talk) 22:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
access restriction status (P7228) is not limited to online resources. I suppose it could be useful mark certain documents as "classified"? Could also be used to show if a one-of-a-kind rare book that's being kept in a library is accessible to the public. El Grafo (talk) 09:18, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Question about followers property?

If I have social media followers (P8687), can that be used for the number of Github followers? It's not really a social media, but it does have followers. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 12:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Also do you use inception (P571) or start time (P580) for social media accounts? QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 13:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Pushback at using WD coordinates in enwiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates#Kartographer,_infoboxes_and_Wikidata has @The Anome railing against the automatic use of WD in Kartographer infoboxes. I don't know why they think enwiki data and processes are superior in this area. Vicarage (talk) 16:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

In most of these cases, ideology is the driving factor that motivates users to oppose Wikidata usage. I would neither spend much time into attempting to understand them, nor into convincing them of the opposite of their position. Wikidata does not need enwiki usage; if they decide not to use Wikidata, it is their decision to make—even if it is based on FUD spread by a vocal minority. —MisterSynergy (talk) 16:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
I think my comments have been completely misunderstood, particularly by MisterSynergy, and if you look closer, I'm actually from the exact opposite side of the argument he considers me to be on.

I wouldn't describe my comments as "railing against" Wikidata coordinates; on the contrary, as you can see from my other comments on that page, my long-term goal is to make Wikidata the master source for coordinates on Wikipedia in all language editions. Mass-importing Wikidata coordinates to enwiki would be a first stage in the process, followed by syncing the two sets of coordinates where they currently differ significantly, and then later by using a bot to auto-replace synced local coordinate templates with local data with templates that simply transclude the Wikidata coordinates. If you have any doubts about my attitude to this, please read my thoughts at en:User:The_Anome/Geodata_initiative, in particular the sections "Outreach to Wikidata" and "Integration with OpenStreetMap and Wikidata".

What bothers me is that in the current template implementation on enwiki, the source of the data is opaque to Wikipedia editors, so it's not easily discoverable and fixable from the Wikipedia interface, thus breaking the wiki principle of in-place editing and the principle of least surprise.

To fix this, at the very least, the Wikipedia templates should generate a editing link back to the Wikidata page when using Wikidata coordinates; ideally, there should be far greater integration with Wikidata, including enhancements to the Mediawiki support for coordinate display, so that GeoHack not only has a link to maps but also to an editing interface that will edit the Wikidata value (if geodata is used from there) or the local Wikipedia coord template value (if used from there). My complaint is solely with the silent transclusion of Wikidata coordinates without discoverability on Wikipedia, not the use of Wikidata coordinates, and my issue is with Wikipedia template design, not the Wikidata coordinates themselves.

I also don't regard the English Wikipedia as the primary source of coordinates; this discoverability and editing interfacing should be on all Wikipedias, as coverage of non-English-speaking areas of the world is often far better in local-language Wikipedias. I hope this clarifies matters. I can go on in far more detail about how I think the progress toward tighter integration can be helped, if people wish. — The Anome (talk) 13:29, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The issue with your enwiki comment is that it is just a rant about the current situation as perceived by you, propped with plenty of negativity; an amalgamation of subjective and super generic reasons why you personally do not think Wikidata usage is appropriate in the discussed context. Nothing of it contains an actionable plan how to change anything about the situation, or how to measure success in any potential attempts to reach goals on the path. That is the reason why others, such as User:Vicarage, feel pretty baffled after reading that comment.
Being around here (and in enwiki and dewiki) for a long time meanwhile, I am not a stranger to such comments. In fact, this is the very strategy if someone wants to categorically derail attempts to use Wikidata in a Wikipedia project for a long time. Be vague, be generic, give plenty of "reasons", avoid accountability; but form other users' opinions with an emotional and strong position. I do not claim that this is your intention—however I cannot deny that your comment does have similarities to this strategy. (Admittedly, this is a typical manifestation of Wikipedia's often poor discussion culture, and not just seen here specifically.)
That said, I understand that the situation may appear frustrating to you, and that there may indeed be serious blockers that would render Wikidata usage currently impossible by Wikipedia standards. However, a comment such as yours on enwiki does not help at all to fix it, and it is not worth for others to add anything to it if the start of the discussion has already been botched up that badly. —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:54, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
And while we're at it, I've just created geolocatable entity (Q123349660), which is the start of implementing part of the plan I'm referring to in my note on enwiki, which currently has two subclasses: the new geographically localized event (Q123349687) and the pre-existing geographical feature (Q618123). The Anome (talk) 14:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
geolocatable entity (Q123349660) is a bad idea as it confuses the item with the entity that's described by the item. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 05:28, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Good article badges in sitelinks to redirects

As talked, I believe that if the targets have a good badge, sitelinks to such targets should also have good article badge. Opinions? 201.66.13.22 16:47, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any examples of such items?
I think your reasoning is that in Wikipedia Good Article (GA) badged sitelinks show a star on the interwiki navigation ("in other projects" or "in other languages") and that indicator wouldn't be there for interwiki links to redirects, even in cases where after the redirect you would land on a page that is a GA. I think it would be a reasonable outcome if that situation were handled and a star was shown.
But I'm less sure about whether it's best accomplished by changing Wikidata item data or modifying MediaWiki so that it follows the chain of items and redirects to determine whether to show the star. I think it may be too much additional overhead/queries in the situation where a Wikidata item has 10 or more sitelinks that are redirects. -- William Graham (talk) 17:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
@William Graham: It may depends on the context. Q12905217 (though all sitelinks are redirects, but there's also Q113286753 similarly) and Q110271724 are examples. Because one is for the quality (-ism/-ity) and the other is for the group of peoples. Not every wiki has a policy like en:WP:NOUN.
The reason why I'm proposing this is because of (meta)categories like this, in which at least 10 Wikipedias have. And good badges from enwiki sitelinks to redirect were removed by User:DeltaBot by @MisterSynergy. Mayhap we need a ticket like phab:T278962. 201.66.13.22 18:16, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
I don't think we should add Good Article badges to any page that does not have that status per policy on the relevant Wikipedia. If EnWiki wants those badges the decision should be made over there. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 05:25, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

is the study of (P2578) has inverse constraint (Q21510855) to studied in (P2579), but not vice versa, it is fair?

Came across this pharmacology (Q128406), and I found out the subject. If wanting to remove the potential issues under is the study of (P2578), someone has to add studied in (P2579) on the values. That is effective to enforce inverse constraint (Q21510855) on studied in (P2579) implicitly, which is currently not explicit.

My question in general is, should inverse constraint (Q21510855) come in pair on both side properties? Thanks. JuguangXiao (talk) 07:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Terms are not a pair in English at last. I don't think either term needs an inverse. Vicarage (talk) 08:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I don’t think it is particular natural language specific, but the ontology and (technical/semantic) constraints. JuguangXiao (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Allow me compare another pair, which are inverse property (P1696) of each other, but has no inverse constraint (Q21510855). These are part of (P361) and has part(s) (P527). Can anyone explain what the criteria are on whether inverse constraint (Q21510855) is enforced upon inverse property (P1696) pairs? And the criteria on one-way or two-way of inverse constraint (Q21510855)? Thanks

Interviews: Tell us about your experiences using Wikidata in the Wikimedia sister projects

Hello, the Wikidata for Wikimedia Projects team at Wikimedia Deutschland is investigating the different ways Wikidata is being used in the Wikimedia projects. If you would like to speak with us about your experiences with integrating Wikidata in Wikimedia wikis, please sign up for an interview in this registration form. Please note that currently, we are only able to conduct interviews in English.

For more information, visit our project page. Feedback is always welcome here. Thank you.-- Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 10:46, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Participant as occupation

Hei hei! I'm reacting to the usage of Q115088092 for occupation (P106) in 18878 items (according to a quick query). Though I'm only familiar with the Norwegian and English labels and descriptions, I don't see a clear limiter on what "international forum" or "participant" means, as, while likely not the intention, this could also cover people who have a Twitter account or have simply attended a conference. The item is also a subclass of participant (Q56512863), which is reflected as a role (Q4897819), with the value occupation (Q12737077) deprecated due to "not all instances of the item are instances of the value class (Q118134102)". Would it not make sense that this extends to the item in question, as well? EdoAug (talk) 18:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

@EdoAug: User_talk:Germartin1#international_forum_participant_as_occupation. User:Germartin1 had plenty of time to clean this up, but looks like nothing happened. I guess it's time to just mass remove it. Multichill (talk) 18:55, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm open to the removal, but an alternative would be nice, since it makes it really useful for me to match people to international events. Germartin1 (talk) 03:11, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
@Germartin1: in what way do you think participant in (P1344) is lacking when it comes to documentating participation here? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
For me, it's better to use participant in (P1344) with specific conference. --Infovarius (talk) 11:50, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Why doesn't the result from wikidata query run?

I used chat gpt to generate a wikidata query, but it failed to run. I want to know why it can't run. ChatGPT query for prompt here is https://w.wiki/8488TMXX0818 (talk) 06:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@TMXX0818
CHatGpt often gives good query syntax with bad values. At least in your query is ?emperor wdt:P27 wd:Q235. # Located in China, but Monaco (Q235) is Monaco, not China. In lower rows you have monkey instead of emperor etc. You can delete incorrect QID and start to type eg. China and then press ctrl+space - you will get possibilities (works in many languages). JAn Dudík (talk) 07:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
@JAn Dudík Interesting. I wonder what made AI hallucinate (?) and confuse China with Monaco? Piotrus (talk) 02:10, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

How to handle concepts of trans people?

Hi, the VRT team occasionally receives inquiries about trans people. Can you please help us and clarify the procedure we should follow in such matters? Are these following practices in compliance with our Living people policy and also satisfy our structural needs? Is there a guideline I have missed?

1) given name (P735) of trans subjects

sex or gender
Preferred rank Elisabeth edit
reason for preferred rank name change
start time 2023
0 references
add reference
Deprecated rank John edit
reason for preferred rank name change
end time 2023
0 references
add reference


add value

2) sex or gender (P21) of a trans women (example case)

sex or gender
Preferred rank trans woman edit
reason for deprecated rank transitioning
start time 2023
0 references
add reference
Deprecated rank male edit
reason for deprecated rank transitioning
end time 2023
0 references
add reference


add value

These are the most important properties but I know there are more to be addressed. I also invited T&S team as inquiries sent to privacy@wikidata.org are handled by them. Thank you for your comments! Bencemac (talk) 07:59, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Past discussions haven’t lead to a real guideline, it seems.
  • Looking at two dozen items, a single and properly sourced sex or gender (P21)trans woman (Q1052281) seems to be the generally accepted modeling. There might be some cases where deprecated items with different sex or gender (P21) values are needed but they should probably be resolved on a case-by-case basis.
  • As for given name (P735) values, here’s my take on that issue: There are probably different modelings that would fit and I can’t make out a general consensus – which isn’t really surprising because out current treatment and coverage of given name (P735) and family name (P734) isn’t exactly stellar. Because of WD:LP (and general decency), values (if needed at all) should be properly sourced with a special focus on the respectability of the source in question.
Personally, I think we should keep in mind that views on sex and gender are still constantly evolving. I don’t think this is the right time to come up with strict guidelines. --Emu (talk) 10:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
The values with the preferred rank should use reason for preferred rank (P7452) and not reason for deprecated rank (P2241).
Being specific about the end time of a trans woman being male might be problematic. A given trans woman might believe that they were a trans woman even before they transitioned. I would likely leave off start time (P580) and end time (P582) from sex or gender (P21) unless sources are very explicit about the dates to avoid making claims that might be offensive to some trans people. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:13, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the incorrect property in the example, I fixed it now. I agree with that start/end dates should be left out unless there is a valid source. We also had the question if the usage of sex or gender (P21)trans woman (Q1052281) and its equivalents is acceptable or not: from our point of view, a trans men is always a trans man (Q2449503) and never a male (Q6581097) because we should use the more specific description/item, right? Bencemac (talk) 08:07, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata does allow for multiple values, and I don't think there's a problem with an item having sex or gender (P21) for trans man (Q2449503) and male (Q6581097). In general, for people where sources speak about them as being a trans man (Q2449503) that's a value that useful to list. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
If that was the correct interpretation, cisgender man (Q15145778) would always be used for all cisgendered people because that's more specific than male (Q6581097), wouldn't it? IMO we should always use the term that reflects how the subject actually identifies, if that information is available. Some people will identify as "transgender male"/"transgender female", some people will simply identify as "male"/"female" and applying a blanket rule to always choose one over the other will inevitably lead to inaccuracies. M2Ys4U (talk) 17:36, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
The previous gender shouldn't be deprecated or removed, it should be qualified with end time (P582) (or another qualifier). It was the correct gender for a while and later it changed, see Help:Ranking#Deprecated_rank for more information. Items like Chelsea Manning (Q298423) are a mess. I made a list at https://w.wiki/7gns of most well known transgender people based on the number of sitelinks. These should probably be cleaned up, sourced and monitored. Multichill (talk) 09:54, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
It was the correct gender for a while: As far as I know, that’s pretty much open for debate, both in biology and in law. Since sex or gender (P21) isn’t really strictly defined (the English description even talks about sex or gender identity), I wouldn’t necessarily concur with your assessment and therefore not with the consequences for modeling. --Emu (talk) 13:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Wikidata generally orients according to what serious sources say. If serious sources say that someone is transgender, that's a claim worth saving in Wikidata. We usually don't have serious sources that explictely say that someone is cisgender. It's useful for us to have that data to be able to create statistics about the representation of transpeople in our data and help Wikiprojects that want to improve items of transpeople.
If someone is very explicit that they "simply identify as "male"/"female" and at the same time serious sources speak of them as transgender, we can add a claim as "male"/"female" with preferred rank and another with normal rank for "transgender male"/"transgender female".
@Multichill: whether or not something was the "correct gender" in the past is debatable. There are transgender women who are offended by the suggestion that "male" was the correct gender for them before they figured out that they were a "transgender woman". For me it seems that there's relatively little benefit we gain from a policy of not deprecating the assigned at birth gender while we do have something to lose by offending people. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:02, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
My point is that just because somebody is trans it doesn't mean that their gender is "transgender man" or "transgender woman" - those are considered by some to be distinct genders from "man" and "woman". The fact that somebody is trans should be represented separately. M2Ys4U (talk) 17:19, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
If someone changes their name, we don't deprecate the old name. Why should it be any different for gender? Feels to me that political activism gets in the way of correct modeling. Regarding sources [2] [3] [4]. These are all from the conviction. They day after was the Chelsea announcement came [5]. Multichill (talk) 12:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
I’m not sure about your analogy. A name is a simple societal convention, we generally don’t think that name changes apply retroactively (although there are some exceptions like a later marriage of the parents in some jurisdictions). The situation with sex or gender (P21) is very different, both from a legal/societal and (depending on the source) from a biological standpoint. It would likewise be political activism to ignore the arguments mentioned by ChristianKl. --Emu (talk) 13:03, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
There's agreement that the correct name of Chelsea Manning (Q298423) was Bradley before 2013. There's no consensus on the true gender of them being male pre-2013. There are trans people who would say that Chelsea Manning (Q298423) was female even before 2013 and it was just in 2013 that they discovered that they were female and then publically announced that. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
@M2Ys4U "My point is ..." isn't a good argument. Any choice we make has some advantages and disadvantages. Having all "transgender men" listed as such even if they speak of themselves just as male makes it easier for someone who wants a list of all "transgender men" who have won a nobel prize to get their answer.
One thing we could do is to add a new property called "assigned gender at birth" for that usecase. Would you be more happy with that? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 07:56, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
I think having something like a "transgender status" property would work better. That still allows users to query for things like "all transgender men who have won a Nobel prize", but relieves us of having to unnecessarily code trans status in sex or gender (P21) meaning we can be more flexible/accurate with its values. M2Ys4U (talk) 16:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I think this is a particularly difficult thing to model. And I don't think it is even clear what we are modeling: self-concept? Public presentation? Legal gender (surely the easiest to model)? (All of that further complicated for an item about anyone but a memoirist by the issue of reliable sources.) At the very least, I can imagine an awful lot of qualifiers to try to express this in a property-value approach. Plus, the issue of whether past gender identity is deprecated or just applies to a date range relates to something that different transgender people view differently in talking about their past. Within my acquaintance I know one trans man (sadly no longer alive) who readily said "when I was a girl" and even "when I was a woman"; I know another who would say "before I came out as male," and yet another who would say, "when I was living as a woman." Any rigid model we come up with is necessarily going to effectively disrespect one or more of those points of view. - Jmabel (talk) 05:29, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for all the comments! I am wondering how we should handle future VRT inquiries of trans people. I think some will agree to discuss the modelling of their items publicly (here, for example) but there will be others who request more discretion (that is why they sent an e-mail in the first place). Do you have suggestions for the latter case? Bencemac (talk) 06:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

When it comes to the emails, I think it's highly problematic that the Trust&Safety team hijacked out mailing list and broke the system that was created by our policy without engaging in discussions with Wikidata about how emails should be handeled with Wikidata. They are not in a good position to do anything about emails in a case like this. If they care about it they should take part in discussions on Wikidata. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 01:36, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi folks, sorry for our delay but I have raised this with the Legal folks at the Foundation. I'm curious how Wikidata volunteers would react to someone emailing the VRT with a specific concern about this field, where they articulate a credible personal risk to them if this information remains on Wikidata? Especially if that person is not a particularly "notable" person? JSutherland (WMF) (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@JSutherland (WMF): My reaction would be that it's bad that the Trust and Safety team sabotaged the solution that was produced by our RFC to deal with it. It a serious topic and it's bad.
Not engaging with policy discussion while sabotaging the enforcement of policy by those who were in the dialog to create the policy is bad. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 02:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: ethnic group (P172) of Rachel Dolezal (Q20085770) appears to be offensive, and there is surely no way of editing it to make it offensive to no one. If the choice is between censoring and offending, I oppose censorship (infringement of the right to free speech) and so does the community. On what basis would we categorically censor one of ethnic group (P172) and sex or gender (P21) ? Reminder: People don't have a right not to be offended. Do we avoid verifiable true statements on the basis that they might be offensive? No. But we should still try not to be offensive where it doesn't conflict with censoring verifiable true statements. RudolfoMD (talk) 23:16, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Any update other than that someone blanked this section and someone restored it? RudolfoMD (talk) 03:52, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
I guess Wikidata:Living people is a violation of of our user's freedom of speech then Trade (talk) 17:22, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

On this topic, there is currently a disagreement on Julia Serano (Q7765045) and birth name (P1477) between me and @Bella Tchau. Bella Tchau want to remove for 2 reasons, the first being that "using the birth name is incorrect", which I agree in general in the context of user facing interfaces, eg, wikipedias, and not just for trans folks. The property is listed as property that may violate privacy (Q44601380) for a reason. However, the fact it is displayed by downstream wikipedia by default give a incentive to add it without refs, and that make it harder to properly curate. I tried to fix it on 3 WP, all of them add a different syntax for not display a property, so individual fixing is not going to scale. However, as explained on Help:Deprecation, the goal of wikidata is not to display data but store it, so I do not think removal is the good option to achieve that goal, but deprecation is. However, deprecation should requires a source, and the 2nd reason given by Bella Tchau is that a document somewhere say so. That's likely true, but as a matter of principle, I do not think we can source with "trust me, that's true", due to the implication of accepting that if there is a bad actor using the same reasoning. If a exception should be made, then this should be agreed and enacted project-wide rather than doing a one-off change that would break data consumers assumptions, and later be potentially reverted because people follow documented processes rather than undocumented exceptions.

For this specific case, the current value is not sourced, so the proper and easy solution is to remove it completely (eg, not replace since that's also unsourced as if we care for precision, we should care all the way, not add unsourced info to WD in order to fix WP).

But that do not solve the real problems, which are "what should be done if that was sourced" and "why not remove it everywhere this property is unsourced". For example Lucia Lucas (Q69805884) is sourced (with a correct and reputable source, not kiwifarms like Riley J. Dennis (Q66438534)). We tend to assume that people use their birth name by default as a display name, so almost nothing is sourced, which go against WD:LP. On top of that, sourcing that the birth name has actually changed is not trivial (and not all trans people can get their name changed easily, so someone using a name is not a assumption that the birth name was changed, and arbirtary changing it is adding incorrect information in WD, and I think we can all agree that we should avoid that).

As a start, I would propose to remove all unsourced birth name (P1477) values, but that would impact more than 120k entries, unless my query was wrong. So it would likely massively impact downstream consumers, and that's not a power I want to wield by myself (neither one that I can wield). I would also be in favor of automatically removing the newer values every week unless they get sourced, to make sure the problem do not come back. Then we can discuss on the question of using proper sources, a IMHO more manageable discussion.

What do people think ? (and if no one disagree, how do we do that ?) --Misc (talk) 14:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I deleted both statements for Julia Serano (Q7765045) – one is unsourced and a potential WD:BLP violation (we might even have to oversight it), the other one is just unsourced since the URL doesn’t really provide a birth name. I still think we should review on a case-by-case basis. We don’t really need to discuss subtle modeling and privacy issues if we can just solve the issue at hand by enforcing Help:Sources. --Emu (talk) 17:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
So enforcing sources, do you mean that you agree with the proposal I have made (eg, remove unsourced and do it on a regular basis ? ). Because review case by case work only if there is a review in the 1st place, and experience show that this do not happen and that unsourced value come back slowly. For another example, the property sexual orientation (P91) was mass cleaned in 2020. 3 years later, people still add unsourced information, as seen on Wikidata:WikiProject_LGBT/Unsourced_sexual_orientation. Misc (talk) 09:26, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
@Misc I don’t think this is really relevant here but since you asked: Yes, I would be in favor of regularly removing unsourced statements for properties with heightened sourcing requirements, especially sexual orientation (P91) and ethnic group (P172) (but not birth name (P1477)). However, while it does seem to be consensus to require impeccable sources for those properties, previous discussions about ethnic group (P172) showed that there is no consensus to remove unsourced or weekly sourced statements. I struggle to reconcile those two statements but it has been brought to my attention that some users feel that removing unsourced statements en masse would be tantamount to denying people of their racial or sexual identity. I’m not sure if that is a good argument though. --Emu (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
My question was mostly on birth name (P1477) as the discussion is about trans people, and because as you point out, others properties might be more sensible. But I do not understand why birth name (P1477) would be treated differently than the 2 others ?
And rather than a mass removal, maybe it would be better to have a small removal (like 100 random unsourced birth name (P1477)) per day every day for a start. It let people the time to react without being too overwhelmed, it would be less disruptive, give plenty of time to react, and turn the cleaning in a on-going process.
As for mass removal of more sensible information (sexual orientation (P91), ethnic group (P172)), I would propose to reuse the same process, but also copy the value and item on a separate page where a project could take a look and re-add the value if a source can be found. And if nothing change, the item is removed from this page after some time to not clog it with incorrect information forever. I feel this would achieve the state we want (everything sourced), while letting humans deal with a potential correct information added by a unaware editor (as it happen on a regular basis for sexual orientation (P91)). Misc (talk) 23:52, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
birth name (P1477) in most cases is pretty uncontroversial – unlike sexual orientation (P91) or ethnic group (P172). It wouldn’t benefit the project to mass-delete unsourced statements for this property. --Emu (talk) 07:29, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Help with deprecated identifier

Hi, everyone! BNE periodical OID (P2768) is a identifier for periodicals in the Hemeroteca Digital de la Biblioteca Nacional de España (Q24748511)

In the past, these periodicals used a numerical identifier with the following formatter url:

http://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/details.vm?q=id:

Those old numerical IDs still work, with a different formatter url (the older one redirects to the new one):

https://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/hd/card?oid=

They have included new ID's, and the current formatter url is:

https://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/hd/card?sid=

The problem is old IDs (though they still work) cannot be found (apparently) in the site.

Example with La Época (Q5968539):

What would be better to do here? To ask for a new property and deprecate the older one, ...or repurpose the current one (*ugh*)? strakhov (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Since the two IDs aren't equal, logically it would seem necessary to request a new property. Could call the new one "BNE journal SID" and rename the old one to "BNE journal OID"? — Huntster (t @ c) 00:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess those names could work. I'd propose a new one, then. Thanks. strakhov (talk) 21:47, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
The website seems to also use ISSN as IDs: https://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/hd/es/issn/2254-559X, works for La Época (Q5968539).
There’s a long list at https://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/hd/es/publications which includes a link to a CSV file. The ISSN is known to be stable, which this sid is suspicious: it is not mentioned anywhere on the page as an ID, nor in their official linked data site, https://datos.bne.es/edicion/Mise0000152389.html, which uses this Mise000… as an ID. Karl Oblique (talk) 12:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Finding fuzzy ISBNs

A search for haswbstatement:"P212=978-88-6231-265-3" finds Q105492277 ([6]), but haswbstatement:"P212=978-8862312653" (and other forms) does not ([7]). Do we have a tool that will find such forms, or do I need a query? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

The second form violates the formatting constraint and shouldn’t exist, or at least not for very long. In your example, it was fixed by the bot within an hour after the item was created.
I do, however, remember seeing an absolute monster of a query to find all formattings. Will try to find it again, but in any case I remember thinking that it proves that, no, there is no elegant way to do it. Karl Oblique (talk) 11:50, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
The "formatting constraint" doesn't apply to external sources or actors, who may be searching Wikidata. Anyone seeking a work by searching for the ISBN "978-8862312653" is clearly looking for Q105492277. Postel's Law is relevant. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

How to fix this redirect issue

I cannot add en:Glamdring (redirect) to our Glamdring (Q2088108). It complains that the item is associated with another one (a list), but no interwiki appear in the en wiki article. What's the problem and how to fix it? Piotrus (talk) 02:07, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@Piotrus: I was able to do it without problem; as the article is a redirect, you need to add the relevant badge (intentional redirection) when adding the sitelink. —-Jahl de Vautban (talk) 05:20, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
@Jahl de Vautban How to add this badge? I do not see an option to do so when I try to add the link? Piotrus (talk) 02:26, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@Piotrus: when you add or edit a sitelink, you should see some kind of blank medal-shaped icon right next to the text of the sitelink. By clicking on it, you can set a badge for the sitelink. It might be more easy to locate it a first time on Glamdring page as they are several sitelinks with badges and without them; but I grant you that it’s not the most obvious thing. —Jahl de Vautban (talk) 06:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@Jahl de Vautban Ahǃ Now that you point it out it is obvious, but yeah, I could not see it until now, and it's not like I am a wiki n00b. Thanks - another wiki trick learned. Piotrus (talk) 12:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

A reference I'm adding can only be viewed with a Greek IP. Can I explain that in references?

Number of episodes of a show I like, is stated on the website for the Greek television channel which owns the rights to the tv series I'm contributing to Loxandra (Q12880332). How do I add that you can not view the reference unless you are visiting their website from a Greek IP? The internet is not as open as we thought...I guess. People might wanna delete my reference after failing to see what I see with my Greek IP, so can I explain in references somehow that they need to have a Greek IP address to view the reference? I don't want to abuse quotation with "COMMENT: You need a Greek IP address to view this reference". Btw the Greek website does not give access to the Wayback Machine. MythsOfAesop (talk) 19:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

This is my workaround so far. I posted in the discussion page of the item in question mentioning my problem and solution: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q12880332&oldid=2008336916 MythsOfAesop (talk) 20:04, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Something like online access status (P6954)location restricted to country of publication (Q113165094) with place of publication (P291)Greece (Q41) would probably be the best way to model this restriction. country (P17) could also work instead of place of publication (P291). DoublePendulumAttractor (talk) 00:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Q50330360 ?

Hi,

Is it really a good idea to have the item Q50330360? I guess not.

Since it's for « city which has second greatest population in a country or region », half the cities of the world can fit this description (the second city in the world, on a continent, on a country, in a province, in a region, in a county, and so on ; plus, the relevant territory should always be in qualifier - which it's not right now). It's also time relative, population change over time, so in theory a time qualifier is always needed (again, which is not right now).

It's seems that it is more something that should be done with query (or any request tool) rather than being stored as a claim in Wikidata, no?

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:04, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

+1, this seems unnecessary Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 12:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
+1, along with largest city, which confusingly came later. Moebeus (talk) 12:18, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
-0, I'm neutral because it's useful without a qualifier when the country level and most up to date value is implied, but not that useful for anything outside country level of detail Simonc8 (talk) 15:06, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
+1 ordering better derived on the fly with a SPARQL query. Get rid of both Vicarage (talk) 16:45, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
A query could find data from when full statistics are available; an alternative such as this could be useful for something before there was a census, or within an area that has various definitions. Q51929311 is also used in list of largest cities throughout history (Q6625002). Peter James (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
I agree that Q50330360 is more strange. But largest city (Q51929311) can be used in some cases when we have no exact information about population at the date for all large cities in the country (e.g. historical). And of course date qualifier is really needed. --Infovarius (talk) 11:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál, Moebeus, Simonc8, Peter James, Infovarius: thanks for the comment (I'm not sure that implying qualifiers is a good idea, it's still need maintaining ; also "city" can be a very tricky concept, right now Marseille (Q23482) has Q50330360 but depending on how you count, it could also be Lyon (Q456)). What do we do now? Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
We seem to agree that this item is unnecessary. Most uses are via P31, see statements using this item in P31: https://w.wiki/873T . I'll just remove all of these by bot if you agree. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 10:03, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Some of them have qualifiers such as start time (P580), end time (P582) or point in time (P585), and information not available in other statements. Nizhny Novgorod (Q891) is an example - these are used with an end time of 1708 and the earliest date we have a population for is 1811 (although the lack of references could be a reason to remove). And many countries don't have the population of their cities in Wikidata. Peter James (talk) 12:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál: yes, please remove them all.
@VIGNERON: ✓ Done Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 10:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
@Peter James: for a total of 96 items, only 8 have qualifiers and only one has a reference (Kano (Q182984)). Even with reference, I still think it's a bad idea (for instance, we deleted properties for familly relation, like P29 = uncle, even if there is a lot of references).
Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 16:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
P29 was deleted which caused loss of data; it was found to be useful and new properties were created a few months later. P1038 is now used, with P1039 as qualifier. Peter James (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
@Peter James: data were removed but no information was lost. And P1038 should not be used when the relative can be found through the graph. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I checked the first item in User:Byrial/Uncles (a list of items with P29 from a few days before the property was deleted) that had no item for parent (Q10132). The statement was removed from the item on 14 June 2013[8]. The replacement property was created in November 2013, but new statements were not added to the item until December 2015. One statement that was removed used P248 to cite a source, and the replacements still only have "imported from English Wikipedia". Peter James (talk) 12:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Please be aware that you initiated and implemented a change in the data model within just one week. The ease and speed with such changes could be a risk for WD. Please don't get me wrong, this change seems solid to me. But I believe WD in general should have more formal procedures to implement structural changes in the erd/ data model. This should go both ways; both for adding and for removing entities and preferably also concern its related data. Démarche Modi (talk) 11:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
@Démarche Modi: technically, it was initiated on the Telegram channel (not by me) and it's also not implemented by me, I'm just an invested messenger here.
We may need a formal procedures but there is millenia old wisdom that can apply here, as the Hitchens's razor says "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." It applies in several ways, as the "model" was created without references, procedures or consensus ; it can be undone equally without. Plus, it was applied without consistency and to a very limited number of items. The burden to prove that this model was good/correct/needed/wanted lies to the ones who create/want it. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I would add to what VIGNERON has written above that this item went contrary to all our usual data modelling standards, and so it wasn't exactly a tough decision to get rid of it. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 12:30, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Request for new revision tags by ContentTranslation tool

We would like to add 2 new revision tags ('contenttranslation' and 'contenttranslation-v2' that will be listed in the Special Tags page (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Tags/) and will be used by Content Translation extension (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ContentTranslation) to mark the changes that are done by the tool. I assume that this is something that can be done by an administrator. Is this the right place for this request? Iiirxs (talk) 09:54, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

@Iiirxs: Given that it can be done by an administrator, Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard would be better. I have done that anyway. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Canadian politicians labeled as districts of Afghanistan in Italian

Hi all, not sure if this is the proper venue but I just wanted to bring to your attention. I saw quite a few examples of this including the entries Albany Robichaud (Q2830806) and Albanie Morin (Q2830793). Plaça de Maig (talk) 02:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

That appears to have been done in 2017, by a human who's been inactive since 2019. I'll fix it. DS (talk) 04:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
More specifically, it was done by a human who made a bad mistake with #QuickStatements. DS (talk) 04:12, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
@DS: Thanks! Looks like it got fixed :) Plaça de Maig (talk) 10:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Should Q110164383 and Q99600913 be merged?

They look like they're probably the same thing to me, but 1) I'm new here and don't want to accidentally make a mess and 2) I don't speak Spanish. dseomn (talk) 03:42, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Relatedly, should Q121438993 and Q76126275 be merged too? dseomn (talk) 04:13, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @Dseomn,
You are right in both cases, thank you. Merged. Michgrig (talk) 20:14, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks! Btw, I found one more, but I'll try merging them myself this time, and hopefully I'm right about these being the same too. Q120051880 and Q29559108. dseomn (talk) 22:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Is there type for term of pairs?

A lot of items for terms of pairs, like objectivity and subjectivity (Q120046157). What should we label it with instance of (P31) or subclass of (P279) to indicate it is a pair-term? Thanks. JuguangXiao (talk) 07:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Either pair of concepts (Q814383) or (for opposing concepts) binary opposition (Q2920592) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done JuguangXiao (talk) 16:13, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add

Add simple:Sigurd to Sigurd (Q1315397). Page is protected 115.188.140.167 08:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Also simple:First Intermediate Period to First Intermediate Period of Egypt (Q232211) 115.188.140.167 08:49, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. RVA2869 (talk) 11:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Why are bots allowed to delete valid referenced statements?

For example see https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q123244658&diff=2000950655&oldid=2000828258

I always thought that if a statement was incorrect then it should be deprecated and a reason for deprecated rank (P2241) qualifier added. But the above is a valid occupation and bots shouldn't be going anywhere near it. Piecesofuk (talk) 08:36, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

The same value with same references is in another property. Is doubtful, if this is occupation, more correct would be religious (Q2566598) in this case. JAn Dudík (talk) 11:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
I have no problem with the bot adding another statement regarding the religion, however Jesuit (Q12319698) is an instance of Catholic vocation (Q63188808) and Catholic vocation (Q63188808) is actually listed on the occupation property at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P106#P2302 as being one of the accepted values. The bot has left the item with no occupation at all with no reasoning behind it. Piecesofuk (talk) 12:53, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
"if a statement was incorrect then it should be deprecated" ... Oh, please do write that again at Wikidata:Project_chat#Discussion_after_bot_suspension, I think a part of our community still fails to accept this rule. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 12:23, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Looking at occupation (P106)'s talk page all these edits are based on an "autofix" tag, so if there are no objections I'll remove those that are sublclasses of occupation. Piecesofuk (talk) 06:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
@Piecesofuk: I wrote just now another message in Property talk:P106. Regarding the case of https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q123244658&diff=2000950655&oldid=2000828258: the statement was referenced, so could be deemed as incorrect; it was removed not for being incorrect, but because it was not coherent with the modeling chosen in this discussion; the statement was not simply deleted, but it was transformed in an equivalent statement in religious order (P611) with these edits, so no data where lost, but they were just stated in a different way, compliant with the data model which the competent WikiProject chose to adopt. If the problem is that, although no data was lost (because the exact information contained in P106 was transformed into P611), the item remained without a value of P106, I can agree with you that this is a thing that could be improved; however, as I said in the property talk page, having both occupation (P106)Jesuit (Q12319698) and religious order (P611)Society of Jesus (Q36380) in the same item would be redundancy and we have to avoid it; if you have a proposal about a different modeling of religious occupation, a modeling which is better than the present one and which both avoids inconsistency and redundancy, I think this deserves a discussion at Wikidata talk:WikiProject Religions and could effectively lead to an improvement in our data quality, so I very much encourage you to make such a proposal. --Epìdosis 14:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I did search around for a discussion but couldn't find anything.
The problem with the edit, and I see you mentioned it in the discussion on Wikidata talk:WikiProject Religions, is that Michael Campbell-Johnston (Q123244658) now has no occupation. So if I wanted to run a SPARQL query against people's occupations he wouldn't be found. I would somehow have to know that religious order (P611) Society of Jesus (Q36380) equates to occupation (P106) Jesuit (Q12319698) and add that to my query (along with any other exceptions). Why avoid redundancy when it helps in extracting information from the data?
But my main point is that any referenced statement should never be deleted: deprecate it and give a coherent reason why it's being deprecated. Piecesofuk (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
@Epìdosis While reduncancy isn't always good, we don't have a principle on Wikidata to avoid all of it.
There are data users that use informartion from the occupation (P106) statement and it's unreasonable to expect each of those to add logic that deals with religious order (P611). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 19:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
I tend to prefer avoiding redundancy at all, also because we don't have an effective way to enforce redundant data models (e.g. autofix can move occupation (P106)Jesuit (Q12319698) to religious order (P611)Society of Jesus (Q36380) transferring also its reference(s), but cannot effectively create a religious order (P611)Society of Jesus (Q36380) from occupation (P106)Jesuit (Q12319698) because it doesn't copy to the second the reference(s) of the first) and this would lead to an imperfect redundancy. Anyway, if a new discussion is opened at the competent WikiProject (Religions) and a redundant data model is found preferrable in comparison with the previously approved one, we can try to find an effective way to enforce it. --Epìdosis 20:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Please fix

treatise (Q384515) had some site links removed. Page is protected. Can it be fixed please? 115.188.140.167 09:15, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I restored two of the links that matched the description; I'm not sure about the Japanese link but it was only a redirect. I also moved some identifiers and Commons links. It's possible that there should be a subclass of Q384515 for some of the "tractate" links (it's unclear if they belong to tract (Q122981637), treatise (Q384515) or a subclass of Q384515). Peter James (talk) 10:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Best P31 for two people?

Sumitra Bhave–Sunil Sukthankar (Q29913272) is for two people, not sure what to do with it Carlinmack (talk) 00:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy link: instance of (P31) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
duo (Q10648343) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Idea: Bot job to collect statistics about wikis

SELECT ?MediaWiki ?MediaWikiLabel ?endpoint WHERE {
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
  { ?MediaWiki wdt:P408 wd:Q83. }
  UNION
  { ?MediaWiki wdt:P31 wd:Q15633582. }
  
  ?MediaWiki wdt:P6269 ?endpoint.
}
Try it!

Gives a list of mediawiki wikis and their api endpoints. The idea is to get

at regular intervals. Can also automatically extract once:

  • Language of the wiki
  • url
  • mediawiki version
  • phpversion
  • database type
  • timezone
  • name of the wiki

No idea what else can be extracted. what do you think? –Shisma (talk) 19:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject Interwiki
Notified participants of WikiProject Websites
–Shisma (talk) 10:20, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
I think this would be great. Some statements should be accompanied by a point in time (Q186408). --Sanqui (talk) 13:19, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
agreed. For those properties which are expected to change over time–Shisma (talk) 15:17, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Source mode?

Is there another way to edit items than the "Wikidata User Interface"? Edward-Woodrow (talk) 21:04, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, other ways are for example:
M2k~dewiki (talk) 22:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Somewhat more generalized: there is the MediaWiki Action API/mw:API:Main page and the new(-ish) Wikidata:REST API which allow editing without using the web UI. The REST API is still not complete as much as I am aware, but the Action API has been here from the very beginning. It is not a good idea to interact with the Action API directly, but there is a myriad of wrappers around it: web tools for specific tasks, bot frameworks such as pywikibot, command line tools, etc. There is also a "source mode" in some sense—see wbeditentity—where you send data in JSON format very similar to the internal serialization to the servers. —MisterSynergy (talk) 22:49, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@M2k~dewiki, MisterSynergy:Thank-you both very much. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 13:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

How to navigate to child items?

From an item, it's easy to navigate up in hiearchy, but how to navigate down? So the inverse to clicking entries within "subclass of" box. This shall be very easy, I'm just not finding how/where.

Example: From https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q154507 to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3391396 and other types of speleothem.

I did not find an answer in Help:Items and Help:Navigating Wikidata and by searching the chat archives. I thought search may be a workaround, but with CirrusSearch documentation I was not able to create a working searchterm like "subclass_of:Q154507". 195.52.169.184 16:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, if, from speleothem (Q154507) you click on "What links here" in the left margin, flowstone (Q3391396) is, I think, the fifth item. Then there are queries..., Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you 🙂 "What links here" does not only list subclasses but everything linking here, e.g. also redirects or articles like Q30828829. Hence, quite a lot of undesired results are listed, making it much more tedious and time consuming to go through child items.
I created a query which seems to produce only sub items, but it feels very odd a query is needed to navigate down in hierarchy – imagine a file browser not allowing you to navigate into sub directories... 195.52.169.184 17:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
The relateditems gadget available in settings adds a "show derived statements" button at the bottom of the statements and might do what you're asking. The current limitation being that it tries to show the 10s and 10s of inverse main subjects first. -- William Graham (talk) 16:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
TThank you 🙂 Dozens of undesired results is not sounding very promising 😕 Hence I'd prefer another way – see my other answer for a query. 195.52.169.184 17:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
haswbstatement:P279=Q154507 is the search (or haswbstatement:P31=Q154507 for instances), but it only works for direct subclasses (and ignores rank, so deprecated statements are also found); a query is usually more useful. Peter James (talk) 19:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Renaming a property

They acted as if I was overreacting on en.wp about editors lazily repeating others' mistakes, suggesting there weren't consequences. Lo and behold, Maxine Dibert (Q123072981) is a misspelling of her actual surname, Dibert, on yet another site, courtesy of a bot edit. I couldn't find an option to rename the page. Do I lack permissions for that? RadioKAOS (talk) 21:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I fixed it, thanks for telling us. Jonathan Groß (talk) 21:20, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Why are the results of those two queries different?

I run a query from wikiedu example here, then asked chatgpt to generate such a query from the prompt. The queries look very similar but the results are different, The example query controls for end date, but removing that line does not make the queries match. Watch else am I missing? Wiki-edu query is at https://w.wiki/4iR . ChatGPT query for prompt here is https://w.wiki/847h Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 06:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The most important difference would be the "distinct" keyword which removes duplicate results. Whenever you arrive at specific vertexes through multiple paths, you will have duplicates, this is very common for variable-length P279 chains. The other minor differences is limiting the number of results, removing previous office-holders and requiring that the cities have population listed. Infrastruktur (talk) 11:59, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
@Infrastruktur Thank you for the answer! Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 06:59, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

5000 BC

Hello, on Early Jōmon (Q123399156) I would like to set the start time (P580) at 5000 BC, but it displays 5. millennium instead and the manual precision box doesn't seem to enable the display of the year rather than the millennium. Thank you Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 08:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maculosae tegmine lyncis I see the bug too, it is impossible for me to set the date to -5000 with year precision. This should be reported on Phabricator. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 17:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you; I have reported this on Phabricator (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T351060), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Invitation to Test the Incident Reporting System Minimum Testable Product in Beta

Hello community, you are invited to test an initial Minimum Testable Product (MTP) for the Incident Reporting System.

Earlier, the Trust and Safety Product team started work on an incident reporting system which aims to make it easy for users to report harmful incidents. We have created a basic product version enabling a user to file a report of an incident, from the talk page where the event occurs.

Your feedback is needed to determine if this starting approach is effective. Please see our MTP Beta update for a quick guide on how to test and also give feedback. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 21:50, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

P1026 that only has a title

李煦寰 (Q15921200) has academic thesis (P1026) with the title "Contribution à l’étude de dérivés halogénés de l’antipyrine et plus spécialement de la monochlorantipyrine" according to https://www.bm-lyon.fr/nos-blogs/le-fonds-chinois-%E9%87%8C%E6%98%82%E5%9C%96%E6%9B%B8%E9%A4%A8%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E9%83%A8/instruments-de-recherche-et-documents/institut-franco-chinois-de-lyon-ifcl/article/inventaire-des-theses-des-etudiants-de-l-ifcl . how do we input that? RZuo (talk) 11:30, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Generally the default is to create items. If you want to avoid that you can use unknown value Help with title as qualifier. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 18:35, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism flag when adding details

Please refer to Talk:Q123432170 Chrisdevelop (talk) 19:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Family name items for family names that do not exist

In 2017, User:GZWDer (flood) created items for every family name listed in the 2010 United States Census (Q523716). Unfortunately the census data did not handle people with two family names very well, so there are many items that are simply two different Spanish family names stuck together like Lopezperez (Q37191605), Perezlopez (Q37502952), Perezperez (Q37437421) and so on. Is there any merit in keeping them, or should they be deleted? Xezbeth (talk) 13:04, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

@Xezbeth: I don't see any purpose in keeping them - no real person has these family names and they are linked nowhere in Wikidata. The only issue is that some other user may try to repeat this import, but I don't think that's a good reason to keep these. ArthurPSmith (talk) 22:00, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Note: Such imported are inspired by the mass creation of family name entries by TheDaveRoss in 2017. If such items should be deleted, we may also want to delete pages like wikt:Lopezperez (this page is also imported to ku.wikt) too, otherwise they may go back to Wikidata (possibly via lexemes) in the future.--GZWDer (talk) 12:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
For the examples listed above, you can still find results via google:"Lopezperez", so they may still be valid surnames.--GZWDer (talk) 12:45, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
@GZWDer: I had a look and I couldn't find one valid surname. Lopezperez indeed appears a lot online, but never as a valid surname, most of the time it's shortcut in identifiers (ike on Q53952912#P2013). Could anyone find any valid example? PS: 3 items are given as example here but apparently there is a lot more, 167788 according to this QLever SPARQL query: https://qlever.cs.uni-freiburg.de/wikidata/HRB0jO (most of them don't come from the US Census), we probably need to take a deeper and more serious look at it. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 13:18, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Nearly all of those will be affixed surnames and double surnames, which are both fine. The issue with Spanish names specifically is that second family name in Spanish name (P1950) exists, so someone named Lopez Lopez will have family name (P734)=Lopez (Q26078995) and second family name in Spanish name (P1950)=Lopez (Q26078995). A separate item isn't needed as "Lopez Lopez" wouldn't be considered a double surname. There should only be a few hundred items from the census that are an issue, and it also includes things like Hernandezgarci (Q37539288) which is presumably supposed to be Hernandezgarcia (which also has an item: Hernandezgarcia (Q37538050)) but is missing a letter for whatever reason. —Xezbeth (talk) 17:50, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
This is some random examples (i.e. uses of such forms as surnames, for potentially non-notable people) find via Google and I don't know whether they are valid: [9][10][11][12][13][14]. Also see previous discussion at Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Names/Archive/2#Defective_items_for_family_names_taken_from_2010_U.S._Census_data.--GZWDer (talk) 18:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Why some projects do not show some interlanguage links?

Hello,
Do you know why some projects do not show some interlanguage links? For instance:

In all these cases, the first project does not show the interlanguage link, but the second project shows it.
In all these cases, the first project does not show the interlanguage link, but it is able to show other interlanguage links (for instance wikt:sr:Категорија:Енглески тезаурус уноси shows the interlanguage links provided by Category:English thesaurus entries (Q36038011)).
In all these cases, I have tried to purge the pages, but it is still not working.
In one case, I have tried to remove+readd one sitelink (link), to resolve the problem, but it is still not working.
Regards NicoScribe (talk) 14:07, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I have one idea: these projects have not created the corresponding namespaces. So these projects consider that these pages are in the main namespace. And, for the main namespace, Wiktionaries rely on mw:Extension:Cognate. --NicoScribe (talk) 14:20, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello @NicoScribe: quick guess: are the namespaces Tresaur: or Wikisaurus: registered as such? If they are still in the main the software might be trying to match them to other exact same spelling pages on others wiktionnary, which it doesn't find. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 14:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you @Jahl de Vautban: this is certainly the source of the problem. But I don't know whether these projects really want to create these namespaces (and I don't know how to create them). --NicoScribe (talk) 14:24, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
@NicoScribe: as far as I know the creation needs to be asked on Phabricator, but that will indeed require the community agreement. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 14:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
I have one last remark: some wiktionaries have not created their thesaurus namespace, but their interlanguage links are working through Wikidata, because they use another namespace (for instance the thesaurus pages below wikt:ca:Categoria:Tesaurus are in the namespace Viccionari, and the thesaurus pages below wikt:es:Categoría:Wikcionario:Wikisauro are in the namespace Wikcionario). --NicoScribe (talk) 15:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Movies: Dropping info about colour ?

I wonder if we should stop adding the info colour on movies that where released in 1970 and later. I find this to be an unnecessary piece of information - and a bit strange. To compare, we don't add info about sound (talkies) on movies made long after the silent era either. I suggest that we only use black and white for movies released 1970 or later (for those films that where originally released in black and white). Ezzex (talk) 16:50, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Under an open-world assumption, we can’t be sure if a post 1970 movie is indeed in color or if nobody bothered to add a statement about it being black and white. So I don’t think that this proposed rule works well for Wikidata. --Emu (talk) 06:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
My impression is than colour became standard between mid 50s and mid 60s. Later movies in black and white where made so because of artistic reasons.--Ezzex (talk) 15:54, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I've found 2D film (Q99526025), should we add it to all non 3D films? Infovarius (talk) 16:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Batch to undone

Please undone this https://editgroups.toolforge.org/b/QSv2/216592/# Sretetete (talk) 11:57, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sretetete Please explain why. Also always tag the author, @ Multistress: Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 12:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #602

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Discussions
    • Open request for adminship: S8321414 (RfP scheduled to end after 13 November 2023 14:50 UTC)
    • New requests for permissions/Bot:
      • DiFoolBot 2 (Task: import VIAF ID based on Union List of Artist Names ID)
      • KizuleBot (Task: Adding sitelinks to Serbian Wikipedia for maintenance categories (see contributions of account) based on items for English Wikipedia's ones)
      • KormiSKbot (Task: Linking newly created pages on SKWiki to the appropriate Wikidata items.)
  • Tool of the week
    • OpenFlights.org is now getting some of its airline data from Wikidata. It is a free open-source tool that allows you to log, map, calculate, and share your flights and trips.
  • Development
    • Wikibase REST API: We continued working on the new endpoints for POST /entities/items/{item_id}/aliases/{language_code} (phab:T335842) and DELETE /entities/items/{item_id}/descriptions/{lang_code} (phab:T342986)
    • EntitySchemas: We are continuing the work on the new data type for linking to EntitySchemas, working on overcoming architectural issues.
    • Language codes: We continued work towards allowing many more languages by default for Wikibase Lexeme and monolingual text statements. This will remove the need for a lot of requests for new language codes to be added. (phab:T341409)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.


Lua error in query examples page

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/queries/examples says "Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module not found. Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module not found. Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module not found." Vicarage (talk) 08:13, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism. And they left a message... --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I've reported them to the Admins Vicarage (talk) 09:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
That page was full-protected for an indefinite period in 2016. How was that vandalism possible? DS (talk) 16:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Actually, it wasn't. These revision were imported. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 16:57, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Any way to search for descriptions in all caps? // high correlation to vandalism

I have found quite a few instances of vandalism and a really high percentage of these was entered in all caps. Is there a way to look for entries with descriptions in all caps? Thanks in advance Plaça de Maig (talk) 10:32, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

While it is theoretically possible to do this in SPARQL, I doubt it would be performant. It should be possible to add an abuse filter (and hence a tag) for such edits. Not sure how well it would work outside certain scripts (e.g. Latin). Bovlb (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

How to deal with dead links?

What do you do in a situation like this https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4751502 when the website link is dead? I assume we mark it that was but don't delete is so people can find the archived version? RayScript (talk) 11:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Deprecate the statement with reason for deprecated rank (P2241) = link rot (Q1193907)}? M2Ys4U (talk) 18:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
@M2Ys4U thanks. How does it look now? RayScript (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Maybe also add end time for when the site went dead? Trade (talk) 11:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding links to unconfirmed social accounts

Hi, can people please join the discussion here Talk:Q30961105#Unconfirmed info and links to propaganda . @Yarkovesh is adding links to random disabled and deleted social and youtube accounts and is insisting on it. Thanks! Manyareasexpert (talk) 09:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixes required Congregational churches (Q1062789) and congregationalist polity (Q960252)

These two items have had an ugly shuffle of terms and redefinition, especially of the former in June 23, and need a review and a fix by someone competent. The redefinition of the first now means that all the wikilinks to WPs seem out of sorts and articles inconsistent, and the things that were pointing to the first link under its original definition are still doing so. Thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 23:14, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

WikiHooku - An application to visualize Wikipedia content

Hi, I'm developing a tool that aims to compare entries from the Wikipedia. It is at a very early stage and it can only compare people lifetime so far. I'm trying to find a place to give visibility to it so people can find it and use. This will help to improve the tool and more ideas may come to make it grow in features. I've found this page: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tools/Visualize_data that is related to Wikidata tools but I'm not sure if mine is more related to Wikidata or Wikipedia. In case it is more related to Wikipedia is there any place to publicize it?


The tool is called WikiHooku and can be found here: https://www.wikihooku.org/

It uses the Wikipedia API: https://www.wikipedia.org/w/api.php


Can anybody please bring me some light?

Thank you very much in advance. Xcarol (talk) 21:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Bypassing the Global Blacklist

Could someone explain to me why Reinheitsgebot have the ability to bypass the global blacklist? Trade (talk) 00:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Trade per Special:ListGroupRights#bot, bots have the sboverride right, so they can bypass the spam blacklists. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 01:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Is that really a good idea? Trade (talk) 01:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Presumably it's done for efficiency reasons. The global blacklist is 14500 entries long, and the bots often do high-volume edits. Infrastruktur (talk) 07:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
It is a quite new feature. See phab:T313107 for the reasoning.
It could backfire with issues like phab:T350480, but when phab:T337431 and phab:T349261 are done, we can set up a guideline for bots that they must not import links from the blacklist. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Property for judicial clerkships

I'd like to propose a property to express the relationship between a law clerk (Q883231) and the judge that they clerked for (e.g. Amy Coney Barrett (Q29863844) clerked for Antonin Scalia (Q11156)). I'm familiar with the US system but recognize that the systems for judicial clerkships vary by country. Before submitting a proposal, I'm interested in feedback on how such a property could be implemented without creating confusion. gobonobo + c 14:09, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

In regards to your proposal, I could see a modelling using existing properties. Use supervised by (P7604) of Antonin Scalia (Q11156) and a qualifier subject has role (P2868) of law clerk (Q883231) (and possibly object has role (P3831) of Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States (Q11144) and court (P4884) of Supreme Court of the United States (Q11201)). Additional qualifiers would include start time and end time.
I understand that modelling might be a little too intensive and a new property likely makes sense. If there was a proposal of a "clerked for" property, I could see myself supporting it.
For information about properties and how to create them see Help:Properties and Wikidata:Property proposal. Another place to have further discussions might be the talk page of Wikidata:WikiProject Law. -- William Graham (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #603

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Events
    • Upcoming:
      • Data Modelling Days, from November 30th to December 2nd: 3 days of online events to address data modelling challenges, discuss how to improve the way we structure data together, and discover the point of view of external reusers. Feel free to have a look at the program (under construction) and to sign up as a participant.
      • Wikidata Lab XXXIX: Structuring the Wikimedia Ecosystem presented by Wiki Movimento Brasil. November 21 at 2:00 PM CEST. The presentation will be held in English by the wikimedian Mike Peel.
      • Linked Data for Libraries LD4 Wikidata Affinity Group Working Hour November 20th, 2023: Over the summer and into the fall the LD4 Wikidata Affinity Group will be offering a series of Wikidata Working Hours to give folks an opportunity to try out various Wikidata-related skills and tools by assembling a data set of diverse library and information science (LIS) materials (articles, conference proceedings, books) and adding it to Wikidata. Wikidata Working Hours provide hands-on Wikidata experience in a supportive space. We hope you will join us if you are interested in learning more about Wikidata, exploring LIS literature, and have been looking for a fun Wikidata project to contribute to. The seventh Wikidata Working Hour will cover the Author Disambiguator tool, which helps users assign authors to articles.During the session we will demonstrate how to use the tool on an author who was created during a previous working hour, and another who doesn't exist in Wikidata yet. After the demonstration, participants are encouraged to try the tool themselves during the rest of the working hour. This session will build on the work done in previous Working Hours by connecting authors to the articles they have written. This session will be recorded and the recording shared on the event page
      • Wikibase for art and cultural data (German) - #9 of kuwiki tips & tools, taking place Thursday, 23 November 2023, 19-20.30
    • Ongoing:
    • Past:
      • ItWikiCon '23 (Italian) was hosted in Bari, Italy between the 17th - 19th November. Check the Programme for details on sessions and check for recordings or slidedecks of presentations.
      • GLAM Wiki 2023 took place in Montevideo, Uruguay. There were several Wikidata-related sessions some of which are linked in the Videos section.
  • Tool of the week
    • User-level gender statistics for Wikipedia - a tool that computes the number of articles created by gender has been repaired after some months of unavailability. It relies on xtools and P21 property.
    • Luthor - tool for finding usage examples from Wikisource and adding them to lexemes on Wikidata.
  • Development
    • We are taking steps towards making many more languages available in Lexemes and monolingual text statement values. (phab:T341409)
    • Nikki fixed a bug where the CSS class for a statement rank wasn't updated after a rank change (phab:T209138)
    • We are continuing the work on improving EntitySchemas by making it possible to link to them in statements.
    • We are migrating several tools from the Wikit design system to the Codex design system to be able to deprecate Wikit in the future.

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.


Talk:Q123456789

Is anyone happy that it would be some human (probably hardly notable)? Infovarius (talk) 15:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

CC @Tol as item creator. Bovlb (talk) 16:43, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I was creating items for Proceedings for the 38th Annual Symposium on Telescope Science (Q123411364) articles and saw that this number was coming up; I thought I could time some item creations to use this item number for my (indeed barely notable) self. I'm still doing author disambiguation, so not everything is nicely linked yet, but this is for Classification of Washington Double Star Systems Using Escape Velocities Based on Measurements from Gaia DR2 (Q123457065)author (P50)Q123456789. I think this is the Wikidata equivalent of a vanity license plate — fun to have but completely useless, haha. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 17:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not at all keen on the practice of creating bare items in order to reserve interesting Q numbers, but I see no justification here to repurpose this item. Please flesh it out soon. See also Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2023/10#Should_Q123456789_be_special?. Bovlb (talk) 17:43, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm in the process of getting author items linked and data added for all of the articles I created items for. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 17:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I frankly find the reasoning behind this creation highly questionable. It’s purely vanity. —-Jahl de Vautban (talk) 18:39, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Do we regard proceedings from conference notable? If so, I'll create hundreds of them for our institution. --Infovarius (talk) 18:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Hundreds of items is very little in the context of Wikidata. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 19:02, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
@Infovarius, Wikidata currently has more than 6000 proceedings (Q1143604) items (search) and more than 13000 conference paper (Q23927052) items (search). I would think that proceedings from reasonably notable conferences would be themselves notable under criterion 2. Proceedings for the Symposium on Telescope Science (Q123299064) is indexed on Astrophysics Data System (Q752099), so I would consider it notable. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 19:02, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Is there a reason not to delete this item? It‘s repurposed and doesn’t even seem to have any particular meaning in its first version. --Emu (talk) 19:22, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I would support deletion - Nikki (talk) 19:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
It should not take any editor over an hour to add the first claim and over two hours to add the first label. Tol appears to have created dozens of such long-empty items in the span of 15s, presumably with the specific intention of gaining a prestige number. All of these items could easily have been deleted as empty. Now they've been filled in (or merged), notability is a question for RFD. While this is clearly bad editing practice on Tol's part, I don't think we need to bicker over this pointless "prize", and we can use our normal processes for notability and deletion. Bovlb (talk) 19:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
The item had no meaning at first (plans purely in the minds of users aren’t relevant to me), then became a geographical object and then a specific human. That‘s repurposing and that’s grounds for deletion even if one or both meanings are notable. --Emu (talk) 13:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

To me, it looks like this was an item about a mountain pass (before that it was empty, no statements at all), which was repurposed to be about a human. We do not repurpose items, so I would say either we revert it to the mountain pass, or we delete it. Jean-Fred (talk) 07:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The repurposing was the other direction. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 11:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
My take (as I said in my previous message) was that the item was empty before being a mountain pass: there were no statements at all, no labels. The English description does not count in my book. Jean-Fred (talk) 16:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
When @OddlyAngled repurposed the item, it was 11 minutes after item creation. While it's not good editing practice to leave empty items sitting for even that long, this is well within the normal grace period we allow editors for fixing empty items. (I usually allow at least an hour after last edit before deleting.) While the item was empty, there was a description, and the repurposing was clearly not justified. It took Tol 36 minutes to revert the repurposing and another 53 minutes to add the first claim. Many admins would have deleted the item if they had come across it in that period, but that's not where we are now.
There is no case here for forced repurposing. The is the wrong venue for a deletion discussion. Bovlb (talk) 17:29, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
it looked like there were quite a lot of empty, otherwise useless, items created in an attempt to id squat. then they all sat empty for quite a while. it wasn't a single item. OddlyAngled (talk) 17:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
clearly they were not intended to be used, nor valuable - many have already been replaced with forwards e.g. Q123456778 OddlyAngled (talk) 18:01, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
There is no question that Tol was messing about here to "id squat", creating many empty items and duplicates. We see that a lot from new users, but Tol is experienced enough to know better. I can understand how that might cause annoyance, especially in anyone who had a proposal for this prestige number that was not mere self-promotion. We should not, however, be ignoring our normal processes in order to inflict some sort of punishment. The disruption is done and is (hopefully) unlikely to be repeated. We have a process to debate notability and delete items. We do not condone repurposing. Bovlb (talk) 18:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
fair enough but deleting the item after it is only a day old seems not like punishment. a new item can easily be created. OddlyAngled (talk) 18:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
It sounds like a bit of a punishment to me. The item has clear purpose and notability and there's no actual reason to delete it, as far as I can see. Even if it was created under such strange and unsound circumstances. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:26, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
I apologise for my conduct with regard to this incident (both with regards to 'squatting' on an interesting number, and not filling out the items quickly). I did not anticipate that this would cause disruption (as it has evidently done), and will not repeat either behaviour. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 19:43, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
The is the wrong venue for a deletion discussion. I’m not so sure about that. WD:RFD is generally used for notability discussions, not for other reasons for deletion like repurposing. It doesn’t even seem to work for “deletion because of sorted-out conflation requests” … --Emu (talk) 18:49, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
We don't normally delete items for repurposing. Are you saying this entity is notable, but we should delete the item anyway? Bovlb (talk) 19:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
We do when repurposing creates a situation similar to conflation, i. e. when it’s not really clear what the item is about. Granted, this doesn’t happen often and generally repurposing is just quietly reverted unless much time has passed. But I do think this situation is comparable although in a fraction of the usual time scale. --Emu (talk) 21:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
@Bovlb: We don't normally delete items for repurposing. Yes, we do. There were about 200 items deleted earlier this year as those items were being repurposed. 132.234.228.214 02:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I handled Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions#Q123456789 and restored the original usage. Multichill (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

In the interests of clear communication, it appears that Multichill has restored the second usage, the historical mountain pass, and not the original usage which, while technically empty, was nevertheless clearly inconsistent with that. Bovlb (talk) 22:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Please don’t be mad, I now restored the original non-meaning of the item. --Emu (talk) 22:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
And I have restored the last good version, which is the one about which this discussion was opened. It's not for anyone - admin or otherwise - to pre-empt this community discussion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

What a train wreck of a situation. We are now wasting our energy by having lengthy, totally avoidable discussions, and we are close to an edit war situation regarding "the right state" of the item in question. Just because one user couldn't leave a particular Q-ID alone by toying around with Wikidata—and accidentally tanking their own reputation. Folks, leave these "special" Q-IDs alone; this is not a playground, and it only causes trouble for everyone. Since we cannot agree what that Q-ID refers to anyways, it would be the best way out of this mess to delete the item page as a conflation. —MisterSynergy (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The door seems wide open for that solution: Special:Diff/2012596665 --Emu (talk) 23:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
That seems like the best way forward.
I note that Multichill has now restored the item to his preferred version and fully protected it in that version. Bovlb (talk) 05:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Disgraceful abuse of admin privileges. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
At your service! It's always nice to have a confirmation I took the right decision. Multichill (talk) 18:52, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
I’m not so sure about that, to be honest. I was about to unprotect the item but I didn’t want to start a wheel war. --Emu (talk) 21:26, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
May I suggest to delete the item with the log message "This item caused more problems than I could count"? Thus the item creator gets to have a funny non-item. Infrastruktur (talk) 22:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
simply "conflation" is enough, because this is exactly what the problem is here. no need to further the drama with emotional edit summaries for administrative actions. ---MisterSynergy (talk) MisterSynergy (talk) 22:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Time for a useless comment, sorry. I also cared about that special ID and dreamed to 'catch' it, but in order to succeed this I should've been at my work PC until the very late which was not worth it. After all, I created Head Count (Q123456889) ('count', lol) making just one digit failed. That's it.
If to be serious, the situation with the edit history clearly assumes the conflict of purposing, which leads to deletion of the item. I doubt that the community is going to use every possibility to keep it, like removal of revisions, or such. It's not a catastrophe, just both involved users should draw certain conclusions. --Wolverène (talk) 06:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

None of the reasons for WD:REVDEL seem to be met --Emu (talk) 08:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
I should point out that, because it was deleted for procedural reasons, we now have a redlink on the front page. DS (talk) 01:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Update Kazakh language (kk) translations

Hello, please update:

  • 'kk': 'улгі Уикимедиа' to 'kk': 'Уикимедиа үлгісі'

Thanks in advance. Ұлы Тұран (talk) 10:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ұлы Тұран: Where? --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 14:58, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Description of Wikidata templates 'kk': 'улгі Уикимедиа' to 'kk': 'Уикимедиа үлгісі' needs to be changed. Ұлы Тұран (talk) 19:06, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Сreating a property without discussion

Hello.

I wanted to create a property that would display the figure skater's position in the International Skating Union ranking. I have done this. Q123438743

But after I created it, I realized that I should have put the creation of this property up for discussion first, which I didn't do. What should I do now? Can I use this property? Beonus (talk) 14:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, this Wikidata item (Q16222597) isn't a Wikidata property (Q18616576) yet (and so can't be used as one) —if you think there is potential (need/demand/use) for a related property, you can make a proposal here, thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 14:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
As a comparandum, see the use of ranking (P1352) on Novak Djokovic (Q5812), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 14:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you.

Entries with names such as أنتونيو توبانغو (correct form: António Topango)

Hi all, I've come across entries such as Cubango (Q12180777) (meant to be António Topango) and not sure what the correct way of dealing with it is -- looks like when Arabic entries are "transliterated", you end up with these gibberish names. Does one manually change each entry? Plaça de Maig (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I think this is more to do with the blocked user User:&beer&love, who made large numbers of poor automated edits, including many with scrambled characters. The user seemed to be poor at communication, so I can't tell if a root cause for the scrambled character errors was identified. Someone more experienced with queries than I am may be able to construct a query that finds these scrambled labels. A first step to rectifying would be to blank the scrambled entries. Editors with automated tools or manual edits can then work on insetting valid labels. From Hill To Shore (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Synonymous taxons?

Endopterygota (Q304358) and Holometabola (Q37140800). I gather there is some confusion here, and I may have accidentally added to it. en:Endopterygota was recently moved to en:Holometabola; similarly for Commons. I see that on Wikidata these two items have no formal relationship at all, although do note

⟨ Endopterygota (Q304358)  View with Reasonator View with SQID ⟩ Store norske leksikon ID (P4342) View with SQID ⟨ Holometabola ⟩

. Anyway, someone with more experience about modeling taxons here should be able to sort this out correctly. I suspect the correct modeling is that one (probably Holometabola (Q37140800)) is the "real" taxon and the other is treated as some sort of deprecated synonym. - Jmabel (talk) 00:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata:WikiProject Taxonomy might be a better place to ask. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 08:25, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Emojis on Wiktionary

I see no obvious way to get sitelinks through w:en:Module:Wd, but maybe I don't need them. I want to insert a link to Wiktionary if Wiktionary has an entry for a given emoji, see for example the fire emoji on Wikipedia. (which currently specifies the Wiktionary entry exists through a template parameter. Yuck)
I see two ways to accomplish this on Wikidata: either add a sitelink to Wiktionary (but we usually don't do that, do we?) and figure out how to obtain that sitelink through w:en:Module:Wd, or add an identifier like Wikidata already does for non-WMF projects like GlyphWiki and Emojipedia. I feel an identifier may be a better fit in this case? (and it would keep my template code simpler) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

See also phab:T163734. GZWDer (talk) 10:50, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello @Alexis Jazz, GZWDer:
I have 3 remarks:
  1. If you add the sitelink in 🔥 (Q87581001) towards wikt:en:🔥, it will stay, but you will receive a warning by the abuse filter 97.
  2. If you add the sitelink, the English wikipedia article will display the interwiki link towards the English wiktionary entry, but the English wiktionary entry won't show the interwiki link towards the English wikipedia article. mw:Extension:Cognate prevents it, cf. example in #Why some projects do not show some interlanguage links?.
  3. Instead of w:en:Module:Wd, perhaps you should look at w:en:Template:Interwiki extra. But if you add the sitelink in Wikidata, the English wikipedia article won't need this template. And this template doesn't exist in the English wiktionary (and even if it does, I suppose mw:Extension:Cognate will prevent it to work).
Regards --NicoScribe (talk) 11:17, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
NicoScribe,
1. Okay. I've created a request to make a property. I probably did it wrong but we'll see.
2. I don't care whether interwiki sitelinks are displayed or not, I was only interested in querying them from a template to show in the article body.
3. That template doesn't seem to do anything, but even if it did I don't think it would work. The whole idea was to query Wikidata to find links to other resources without having to enter template parameters. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
@Alexis Jazz: great. Now I understand your need (but can't help you). Sorry for my first answer, off-topic. --NicoScribe (talk) 20:59, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Clarify Wikidata:Account creators abilities and where to request

For now, we can see Wikidata:Account creators said this user group has override-antispoof and tboverride-account (this one should be tboverride I think?), but according to Special:ListGroupRights#accountcreator, they don't have these two rights. Second, we don't have this user group in Wikidata:Requests for permissions, maybe we should add it? (Or maybe Wikidata:Bureaucrats' noticeboard)--S8321414 (talk) 11:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

How often is this needed? Wouldn't it be enough for admins to just do those things? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 19:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I have no idea how often is this needed, but you can check its talk page, someone asked for this permission but nowhere can request (though it is a 2021 request...). So I think clarify how this permission can be requested would be good idea.--S8321414 (talk) 23:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe this is used primarily for outreach events, like hackathons or educational courses. People need to be able to sign up for accounts without an administrator necessarily being on hand. This right is often given temporarily. Bovlb (talk) 00:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Should be, but we don't have related information on that page.--S8321414 (talk) 11:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Can you write an RFC for adding a page to request the user group (and a description about when the right should be granted) along with a request to have for the user group having access to the two rights? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Done--S8321414 (talk) 12:39, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
@S8321414: Currently that page lists a series of questions. It would be better if you make a proposal that people can then either support or reject. Without a clear proposal, it's harder for it to move forward. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:00, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Added :)--S8321414 (talk) 13:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Merge requested

Hi, I frequently come across pairs of Wikidata items that are obviously describing the same item/taxon/concept etc. Today, I added the merge tool to my user profile to try to merge an example pair (Q1191360 and Q25796510) and it failed. Why did it fail and can these items be merged? Loopy30 (talk) 21:26, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

You can't merge items that both have sitelinks to the same project. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 22:10, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Wouldn't you want to though? Especially those items that are "in use"? What is the way ahead to resolve this? Should duplicate sitelinks be deleted so that the Wikidata items can be merged or is it OK to just accept that items are sometimes duplicated and just move on from there? Loopy30 (talk) 22:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not an expert, but it appears to be both consensus and practice here not to merge taxons that have distinct formal names, regardless of any current scientific views about their distinctness. (We should probably have a policy document to point to regarding this.) You might consider using permanent duplicated item (P2959) or said to be the same as (P460) to link the two items. Bovlb (talk) 22:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Bovib, I'm not looking at synonyms or items with distinct formal names though. Many times they are identical (as in the example given above), other times they are just different ways to describe the same concept (eg. Foo is a genus of beetles, and Foo is a genus of insects). Sometimes there are multiple statements and identifiers on one ID, and none on the other (or just a Google Knowledge graph ID#). Loopy30 (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Again, I am not an expert in this field, but notwithstanding the current English label, Hippopotamus lemerlei (Q1191360) appears to be about "Hippopotamus lemerlei", while Malagasy hippopotamus (Q25796510) is about "Malagasy hippopotamus". The ENWP article explains that "Lemerle's dwarf hippopotamus (Hippopotamus lemerlei) is an extinct species of Malagasy hippopotamus." Bovlb (talk) 22:58, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Ah, you are correct. Perhaps the problem is that Q1191360 should be relabeled to Hippopotamus lemerlei to prevent any further ambiguity. 'Cheers, Loopy30 (talk) 23:32, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
The EnWiki article for Malagasy hippopotamus (Q25796510) suggests that it's a term that means multiple species, Hippopotamus lemerlei, Hippopotamus laloumena and Hippopotamus madagascariensis. That's also in line with the it being organisms known by a particular common name (Q55983715). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Yes, Bovlb has already pointed out that it was a poor example and it has now been changed. However, what about my original query for terms that are identical (eg. Foo is a genus of beetles, and Foo is a genus of insects), each with its own separate separate Wikidata entry? I will go back and look for an actual example here. Loopy30 (talk) 21:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
New example: Murid betaherpesvirus 3 (Q70641768) and Murid betaherpesvirus 3 (Q85787101). How do I merge (or ask to merge) these items? Loopy30 (talk) 00:40, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
@Loopy30 See Help:Merge. JAn Dudík (talk) 09:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks JAn, the automated merge tool worked on this pair (it didn't on the original example I gave, for the reason mentioned by Sjoerd de Bruin) so I will try to use this in the future as I come across matching pairs of Wikidata items. Loopy30 (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

How to ask API for QID with Commons Category

Hello, I want to ask the API to search for the Commons category (P373) like "Albert Einstein". I only know the name of the Commons "Category:Albert Einstein" and I want to know the QID of Artikel Albert Einstein (Q937). If I know the QID, then it is easy API-Request. But how can I ask without the QID. Somthing like this Cirrussearch. --sk (talk) 23:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

This must be possible since Hub can do it: https://hub.toolforge.org/P373:Albert%20Einstein?site=wikidata&format=json (but I don't know how). Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 11:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
The Cirrussearch query can reproduced via API action=query. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 09:18, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
@Matěj Suchánek@Vojtěch Dostál: Great! Thanks for your help! --sk (talk) 19:58, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Made from material constraint

I think there is a problem with the constraint in padding (Q47415676). The values of made from material (P186) seem correct, but constraint violations are reported. --2A02:8108:50BF:C694:F16C:4A6D:33BD:455E 20:40, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata games (old) not working for most?

So I am running a class and wanted to demonstrate some Wikidata:Games. Thing is, old game page (https://wikidata-game.toolforge.org/) works for me - I can display it for my students - but for all of them, it's blank (the list of games does not load). The new page (https://wikidata-game.toolforge.org/distributed/) does work for everyone, but it does not have the simple games (gender, job, nationality) that again work for me but the same links provide blank screens for students. What's going on? My account is old and has a bunch of edits, students have new accounts - could the games be restricted from new accounts, perhaps? Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 06:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The games haven't been updated in years, the project is too big nowadays that the way these were programmed doesn't work anymore. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 08:10, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Coming up soon: Wikidata Data Modelling Days, online, November 30-December 2

Wikidata Data Modelling Days 2023

Hello all,

If you are regularly involved in adding, organizing or reusing data from Wikidata, you certainly encountered some questions or issues related to data modelling: how to describe and structure information in a consistent way on Wikidata. This is a big topic for the community at large, and that's why we will address it together during a 3-days online event, the Data Modelling Days, that will take place next week, on November 30th, December 1st and 2nd.

During this online gathering, we will have lots of discussions on various topics that you can discover in the program: we will talk about Entity Schemas and how they can be useful to improve data quality and consistency on Wikidata, how to model heritage, gender, references or web fiction, the challenges encountered by people reusing Wikidata's data inside and outside the Wikimedia projects, how to model data on a fresh new Wikibase instance, and many other exciting topics.

Aside from attending sessions and joining the discussions, you can also join our Data Modelling Clinic sessions, where you can bring any topic you are working on, ask questions or ask the community for feedback or help. You will find these sessions on each day in the program.

The event is taking place online on the video conference platform Jitsi, it is free, no registration needed (although you are invited to add your name to the participants list). Most sessions will be recorded in video and have collaborative notes, and we will publish a list of outcomes and next steps for each session.

We are hoping to see a lot of you at the event!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the talk page or directly by writing to me. Best, Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 15:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

synonym (Q42106) as class?

I have found that some 564 items have instance of (P31)synonym (Q42106), for example desire (Q775842).

Since synonymy is a relation between constructs in a language, not concepts (if two words or phrases are synonyms, they refer to the same concept), I consider this problematic. (In the example: Yes, desire may a synonym of longing in English, but I completely fail to understand what the notion of Q775842 is a synonym of Q16513670 is supposed to be. This might rather be a case for permanent duplicated item (P2959) or said to be the same as (P460), but there are other cases like the one I corrected earlier, which described a German word rather than the concept behind it.)

Thoughts? Opinions? --2A02:8108:50BF:C694:75FB:C6CC:43F8:CE91 20:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 09:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
If there are two articles for the same concept Wikimedia duplicated page (Q17362920) can be used unless there is consensus to keep separate pages or other reasons not to merge. I use P460 where they seem to be describing the same thing but I am not sure; P2959 is usually for pages with different writing systems in the same project. Peter James (talk) 09:50, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

person removing

There is user that removed everything at Eineik Kaddabeen (Q5349739), Khalas Sameht (Q6399268) and a few other items 115.188.140.167 21:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Probably an attempt to delete the items as either not notable or duplicates. Q5349739 and Q6399268 had no identifiers, no Arabic labels, and no sitelinks after the English articles were deleted. There were items with Arabic sitelinks for the same albums, so I merged them. Peter James (talk) 08:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Two more were duplicates (although one had an English sitelink that had not been moved to the new item). The reasons for the edits to Yama Alou (Q8047573) and Saharna Ya Leil (Q28717366) (where English sitelinks were removed from items that also had Arabic sitelinks) are unclear. Peter James (talk) 09:02, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Can gender (Q48277) be a criterion(criterion used (P1013)) for sports?

We use "sex" in the title of mixed (Q1940854). biological sex (Q290) or sex or gender (Q18382802) look like more logical criterion in sport items. 대한민국 정치 (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Policy on using deprecation for inactive social media accounts

The policy for using deprecation (or not) for inactive social media accounts seems a bit confusing right now. I've opened a thread over at Help talk:Ranking and would appreciate guidance from folks more experienced with the historical use of deprecation across Wikidata. Eloquence (talk) 00:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Property opposite

We have related property, do we have "Property opposite of". Related property can be a long list, we should be able to see the opposite more readily. RAN (talk) 04:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

inverse property (P1696), complementary property (P8882) and negates property (P11317).--GZWDer (talk) 06:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Missing a label and ridiculous area unit to sort out

Hello and thanks to whomever takes the trouble of reading this and even more so to whom gives me the answer in an understandable language. Got this https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5725076 with " No label defined (Q5725076) ". For now there is a page for it in es. wiki and I just made one in fr. wiki (now duly added to the page here). Before that could happen, tried to reach wkdata from the fr. page, got a blank wkdata page, and thanks to my complete distrust of both my ability to deal with wkdata and of wkdata itself (wayyy too complicated gibberish), decided to get to wkdata via the es. page. Thus found the page here linked (Q5725076). So ok so far so good i managed (just barely) to avoid creating a double. Now, looking for an answer to the simple question: "how to add a label" (so that others can find it more easily, etc), I erringly find this: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:QuickStatements#Adding_labels,_aliases,_descriptions_and_sitelinks which looks like it's supposed to give the answer but is definitely no help at all. See some of the "why" in next entry "Simple language".
Ok so there a missing label there and the question is: "How to add one".

Second point: the place has an area of 150 km2. This... "thing" here, does not understand that when I put "km2" it means "km2", not "m2" (?!). Plus, the menu option is lying: it does say "square kilometre" but gives it out in square meter(s) - with no warning, to top it all up. Result: the infobox says One hundred and fifty millions of square meters, which is so ridiculous that it's worth writing in words and in full. You'd think there would be an option for that km//m thingie, but no. And why not? Seems basic to me. (Also explains why I call it "gibberish".) So, is there a way to have it say km2 instead of m2, and if yes which is it?

Thank you for your answer/s. Pueblo89 (talk) 06:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

(P.S. please do ring me if you answer, i.e. add [[user:Pueblo89]] or similar so i 1) know there's an answer, 2) get a link to this page. Thanks.)

Pueblo89 The Wikidata item shows it in km2. It is displayed in m2 in fr:Belic (Niquero) but that seems to be how the infobox converts it. I don't know if there are parameters that can be used in the infobox to change it; similar articles don't use the standard infobox, so a more specific infobox could be used - Infobox Localité displays km2. Peter James (talk) 13:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you Peter James, "infobox localité" instead of just "infobox" does give it in km2. And i see that Quesotiotyo has found a double, merged the things + spent some time fiddling with it and generally cleaned up the mess, wonderful it's all neat and proper now 👌 👍 Thanks again Peter James. Good winds to you. Pueblo89 (talk) 17:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Simple language, i.e. How to write understandable explanations

Example in this: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:QuickStatements#Adding_labels,_aliases,_descriptions_and_sitelinks. It starts with:
"As with adding simple text statements, each command must consist of an item, a command, and a string in double quotes."
The way i understand "simple text statements", I don't see any such thing in these pages apart from what's added in the box "Language / Label / Description / Also known as".
That's the first words, which as you can see do not correspond to anything of the subject as far as i'm concerned, and the rest doesn't get any better. Honestly, wtf is all that coded language supposed to mean?!! Ex.: I know off-hand 4 definitions of what a tab is, but clearly none of them fits what is meant there so what does "tab" mean in this context? I won't even mention what "string" and "extra-large size upside-down" - as in "Lxx" - suggest when one is so obscenely lost that even those come to mind. Yes I can see that 'L' is for 'Language', the 'A' for 'Alias' a.s.o.; but even assuming that the 'tab' question is solved - which it is not -, where are we supposed to add that? etc etc etc.
It really looks like these are written by people who have lost touch with "ground zero approach". Understandable, but not helpful - despite all the good will that clearly transpires too.

There's only one solution: have it proof-read by people who ARE at ground zero (= none of yous, obviously) and are willing to spend the time it takes to make you see what is not clear enough.
Yes i shall (only English and French). If asked. Pleasure, be happy to, etc. That's what I'm asking so now it's your turn to do the asking; will you be willing to do it, is the question.

Best wishes to you all. Pueblo89 (talk) 06:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello Pueblo89, "tab" means "Tabulator" in this context. The columns should be separated by a tabulator character.
You automatically get a tabulator character (TAB) when you copy&paste the statements from Excel, LibreOffice, OpenOffice, etc:
M2k~dewiki (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Time zones

See: Belic (Q5725076) Is there any valid reason why we have: "An entity should not have a statement for located in time zone if it also has a statement for instance of with value human settlement." RAN (talk) 22:29, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Because we want to push time zones up to a higher administrative level. Normally country, or US state (or Native American reservations for all those fiddly cases). We always want to define characteristics at the highest level, itt reduces clutter and make the maintenance burden much smaller, if say Spain switches timezone. Vicarage (talk) 22:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
  • @Vicarage: I added your quote at Usage instructions (so I don't ask again in 5 years), you should reword it if needed, so it is more concise or more precise.

Boushaki family

I was trying to warn all wikipedias that Mustapha Ishak-Boushaki (Q25455134) has been creating articles for himself in more than a hundred wikipedias, when I realised this was only the tip of the iceberg. He has been also creating articles about his whole family, as you can see here. I've been posting the {{Delete}} template to dozens of articles like mg:Abdenour Boushaki. Is there a better way to fight against this kind of cross-wiki spam? Thanks in advance.

Thank you for fighting this war, @Paucabot. There might be some meta procedures fighting this, but I have not discovered them yet. It might however be a good idea to set up a central unit to describe and log the spamming and its deletion, like we did here and here. Then all local discussions can be pointed to one big description of the problem. Bw Orland (talk) 20:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
Lately, I've been redirecting discussions here. Paucabot (talk) 20:53, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Notability of one article subject with the name Boushaki

An innocent question: How is him having an article about himself in 93 wikis a problem if he meets notability criteria? (He is a full professor, after all). Jonathan Groß (talk) 20:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

IMHO, he does not meet notability criteria: there are no independent sources covering his biography. All we can find are his published articles and news about him published by his own university. You can check the references yourself. And this is only talking about him: there are family members that are less notable than him but they are extremely overreferentiated, like sw:Mohamed Nassim Boushaki, sw:Feriel Boushaki, ha:Djilali Ishak Boushaki, es:Yahia Boushaki (político argelino) or sw:Khaled Boushaki. Others that I think that could be notable are es:Chahinez Boushaki or en:Sidi Boushaki, but I'm not entirely sure. Paucabot (talk) 21:11, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
Well, @Jonathan Groß. It might seem like an what's really the problem?. As one of those who are trying to stop interwiki spamming, some of my points are a) that these people are misusing Wikipedia to promote themselves. So there is first the Conflict of Interest question. And b) a huge number of IW is IMHO a false signal of significance. I list some cases at my english userpage. Like the 2009 case of the italian actress who then had an wp-article in 43 languages, even though she had hardly played outside Italy. In comparision Roberto Benigni appeared in 34 and Isabella Rossellini i 19 languages. Bw Orland (talk) 22:10, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
For this cross-wiki spam, at least users Shamilouv, Authentise, Touroukiyya, Iamovich, Soufiyoune, Tidjany, Thalayous, Zouaoui16, Lalitose, Futbalino, Bengalios, Malikose, Soufiyoune, Marinianse, Moscovas, Fatma0005, Mamillia, Dmytrouf, Amarusse, Lollita14, Soufiyya, Misticose, Mahayero, Boushakino, Versitioh, Houloumy, Maloubiou, Xylocopiya, Waloinia, Egoloun, Uppsalask, Tyfoulio, Djamiloub, Yaltabov, Xoulouj, Picosou, Tyrouly, Flanovoi, Zeaulov, Fixiouse, Buffalouse, Foulouha, Nigeriou, Rwandania, Congolya, Kuroundia, Bareedanou, Wakomba, Shonobua, Faliotas, Gualiofa, Sandtown, Ergoutch, Oulumins, Tyliboup, Hukumoya, Guluping, Quanqun, Noukolp, Dounida, Darjio, Fulioju, Uluiona, Pacifishto, Khantoush, Houyouf, Valuatio, Juliouto, Rezki213, Khostostan, Bolchotin, Bengaloure, Astroubot, Ulimop, Hoggariou, Mandelaya, Giousseppe, Luftanio, Texassiou, Hamidofic, Khotopov, Baloufink, Viloupin, Koulibalou, Chyprious, Suzanoa, Moulania, Fayyoumy, Relativition, Balouristov, Familinou, Lyndaouva, Mandelaou, Irishmania, Maninanos, Hollandstug, Merchicha, Theses1234, Luiggini, Noor1972, Soufismo, Acildz, Michellines and Robocopat are globally blocked. Paucabot (talk) 22:48, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
Some of the discussions:
Wikidata items with sitelinks: Ali Boushaki (Q28936494), Boushaki universe expansion tool (Q106525765), Mustapha Ishak-Boushaki (Q25455134), Djilali Ishak Boushaki (Q106376074), Q106509002, Mohamed Seghir Boushaki (Q24205953), Q112121520, Mohamed Seghir Boushaki (Q24205953), Amine Iben El Boushaki (Q25455322), Brahim Boushaki (Q25455059), Rabah Rahmoune (Q111521941), Yahia Boushaki (Q42331664), Khaled Boushaki (Q105953875), Sidi Boushaki (Q19629001), Shahnez Boushaki (Q106522361), Toufik Boushaki (Q28756434), Mohamed Nassim Boushaki (Q106299615), Abderahmane Boushaki (Q45107526), Bouzid Boushaki (Q111263400), Category:Boushaki family (Q105974898), Category:Mustapha Ishak Boushaki (Q112115658), Boushaki (Q18589908), Abdenour Boushaki (Q106313060), Brahim Boushaki Library (Q111904760), Yahia Boushaki Boulevard (Q65716406), Yahia Boushaki Tramway Station (Q111479348), 1920 Algerian Political Rights Petition (Q110233804), Zawiyet Sidi Boushaki (Q43033365), Mohamed Belhocine (Q19606689) and Boushaki (Q121781793)
Wikidata items with no sitelinks: Q122239348, Zakari Ishak-Boushaki (Q122239503), Q112705217, Cheikh Mohamed Boushaki (Q111442083), Dijlali Boushaki (Q106451053), Q112623711, Q112624164, Q112630843, Fayçal Rahmoune (Q106418343), Adel Rahmoune (Q103320382), Q122227768, Rabah Boushaki (Q122920425) and Q122227804. Paucabot (talk) 13:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
The main article, Mustapha Ishak-Boushaki (Q25455134), has been deleted in bgwiki, gcrwiki, xmfwiki, gvwiki, wawiki, pswiki, huwiki, bswiki, rowiki, kshwiki, srwiki, ukwiki, idwiki, afwiki, eswiki, uzwiki, lgwiki, nahwiki, azwiki, extwiki, euwiki, ptwikinews, enwikiquote, bnwiki, hifwiki, hiwiki, eswikinews, diqwiki, fiu_vrowiki, arwiki, gawiki, ruwikinews, cawiki, astwiki, nywiki, cywiki, mswiki, dewikinews, enwikinews, bat_smgwiki, nlwiki, enwikiversity, elwiki, sewiki, szlwiki, hsbwiki, plwiki, fiwiki, svwiki (twice), nowiki, lijwiki, tkwiki, arzwiki, dawiki, bewiki, jawiki, dewiki (twice), ukwiki, itwiki (twice), ptwiki, frwiki (three times), trwiki (twice), enwiki (twice), ruwiki and zhwiki. Paucabot (talk) 13:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
I just locked another bunch of their socks! The projects need to be notified in some way, I have the same problem with another cross-wiki spammers, who try to create everywhere the pages about two not notable people (Q123257513 and Q123140531). It's difficult to notify everyone about this kind of spam! Superpes15 (talk) 17:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Irish Wikipedia (ga) sysop here. @Paucabot: - may I recommend that local sysops SALT the articles, per en:WP:SALT, to prevent their re-creation. Enough is enough - Alison (talk) 08:07, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm logging here my comment in the de:wp deletion dicussion. An excerpt: This is a man/family who has spammed the whole Wikipedia community to a level I've never seem before. He has submitted personal and unsorced information about himself and his family to Wikidata as if Wikidata were Tinder and LinkedIn. Bw, Orland (talk) 11:42, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Granted that he's spamming himself, but he is genuinely a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which could justify claims of notability? DS (talk) 18:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
It seems it is, indeed. But I don't think that mention (that is given to more than five hundred people every year) grants notability to him. I haven't seen any reliable source covering significantly his biography. All the references are his own works or news from his own university. Not even in https://www.aaas.org/fellows/historic is there any kind of biography of him. And there are even less evidences for his nephew Djilali Ishak Boushaki (Q106376074), cousin Bouzid Boushaki (Q111263400) or the majority of his relatives. Paucabot (talk) 19:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
And there are even items of his two sons, Q122239348 and Zakari Ishak-Boushaki (Q122239503)... Paucabot (talk) 20:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
I find it difficult to delete ckb:Mustapha_Ishak_Boushaki, i see it as a notable professor. Sakura emad (talk) 13:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
@Sakura emad: This article only has three sources: two of them are from his own university and the third one only lists his name and university (Mustapha Ishak-Boushaki The University of Texas at Dallas). I think it's not nearly enough to be considered notable. There's not any reliable source (of course, external) covering his biography. Paucabot (talk) 13:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
@Paucabot I anticipated you would mention that, but English Wikipedia clearly indicates that this professor is eligible for an independent article. When I mentioned finding it difficult to delete it, I consulted English Wikipedia sources, and it appears that the subject is notable enough to warrant staying on the platform rather than being deleted.

Well, unless you have any specific objections to English Wikipedia itself, I'm afraid the article will remain as it is. Sakura emad (talk) 16:23, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sakura emad: For me, the English article is a clear case of curriculumesque spam with the majority of references being his papers and news from his university, but I will not decide what to do at :en nor in :ckb. I only deleted this article in Catalan Wikipedia. A hundred other wikipedias have already deleted this article but some have decided not to do it. I can just inform about it all of them. And that's what I've done. Thanks anyway, Paucabot (talk) 16:47, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
The English Wikipedia indicates no such thing. Once real editors got at it — indeed once the article subject xyrself became aware of it — a lot of things written by the creator and single contributor got edited out (by both the article subject and editors of long-standing) and it became very obvious that a lot of it was sourced to interpretations of primary source materials that were by the subject not about the subject. I suggest that you be thorough in your source reviews. English Wikipedia editors were, and the article turns out to have quite a lot of unsupported material. Uncle G (talk) 08:31, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
@Uncle G Ok thank you, The article has been deleted on ckb by another administrator, and for that I'm not going to request undeletion. Sakura emad (talk) 22:46, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

A series of "new" users

Some weeks ago, on october 7th, I rushed through some of the editions, leaving {{delete|Machine translated crosswiki spam}} at many of them. Today, someone in the Boushaki family, eager to keep this massive selfpromoting spam operation running, has created a new user, in order to remove my deletetion notices, with the false claim Removing spam vandalism of a banned user. Look at

Hupulio aslo claims that Paucabot is a banned user. To @Jonathan Groß: In my experience, it is quite characteristic for these spamming operations that they are not arguing for notability, but are responing with lies and accusations against those of us standing up for the sake of Wikipedia's reliability. Bw Orland (talk) 10:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

New users in this business today are Lalamoi (talk • contribs • logs) and Kontaktou (talk • contribs • logs). Orland (talk) 12:43, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Also WikipsBot (talk • contribs • logs). Paucabot (talk) 12:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Also Ljubjiano (talk • contribs • logs). This is really what we in Norway would call a Duracell bunny. Bw Orland (talk) 13:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
And we have Ulmanous (talk • contribs • logs). Is anyone counting? Bw Orland (talk) 14:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Now the active one is JeanPaul02. Paucabot (talk) 11:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
There is now a simulated bot BideBot doing some strange editions on some articles: Special:CentralAuth/BideBot. Paucabot (talk) 09:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The translation method

When i looked at the source code in the Faroes edition of fo:Mustapha Ishak Boushaki, I discovered something funny, strange and revealing: Boushaki seem to copy his article structure from Einstein biographies, and in this edition he left 

{{DEFAULTSORT:Einstein, Albert}}

unaltered when he published. I've seen something similar some years ago, in en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Curdy where an author used J.K.Rowling biographies as his structure. Bw Orland (talk) 12:55, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Attribution

Main page: w:en:Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Zouaoui16

Have a care with attributing this to a named person. See w:en:Project:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Boushaki family cross-wiki spam for what turns out to be the case upon deeper investigation. Uncle G (talk) 03:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

More cases

Next is Joao Grimaldo (Q108153171). It went from 16 interwikis in september to the 115 that has now. All the major edits done by Sonia197881. The articles must be machine-translated like this: eu:Joao Grimaldo. Paucabot (talk) 09:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

And I still found another one: Percy Liza (Q107674650), that has 81 interwikis. Edits made by different users Abel2001, Club Sporting Cristal, Awindy1712, Genio2022, MrKDunleavy, LiviaQEZ, Augusto Martínez Rimarachín, Palabra de Gol and PERU2022 and Roberto2043. Both cases seem to be related as the players play at the same team. Paucabot (talk) 09:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Another case, that seems unrelated to the previous two: Torsten Haß (Q108493269) (103 sitelinks now). Paucabot (talk) 09:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello, @Paucabot. Obviously spamming. And not to be recommended. But both Percy Liza (Q107674650) and Joao Grimaldo (Q108153171) are playing football on a level (national team and winning team in own country) that is harder to delete. Home in no:wp we have a well established policy about football player notability. And both of there are within.
When it comes to Torsten Haß (Q108493269) on the other hand, there seem to be an interesting discussion at de:Diskussion:Torsten_Haß: most of his books seem to be selfpublished, and the Wikipedia entries are thus blatant vanity. Bw Orland (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Of course. The two football players should not be deleted if they have good translations, which I don't know if it's the case.
Torsten Haß (Q108493269): the Catalan article is a very bad translation and there's not one single source that covers his biography in detail. I suppose it will be speedily deleted. Paucabot (talk) 06:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
While, as in the case above, they can be notable, so the biography can not be deleted on various projects, we have to contrast the cross-wiki spamming and the machine translation. We cannot accept this behavior. Superpes15 (talk) 10:14, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Removal of pre-existing (English) names

Hi all, @Titus Gold, has recently removed the previous labels and even any trace of the pre-existing (usually English) names for multiple wikidata items relating to Wales, and replacing it with the Welsh ones, almost universally, even under English. Per Help:Label (although seems a proposal/draft?), it should be the "common name", especially for the English label, but they seem to be basing it on either recent events on "official Welsh names being only used from now" (but not necessarily the common name) or just replacing the English name entirely with the Welsh on even settlements. Since reverted them at Red Wharf Bay (Q3405755), Bala Lake (Q1335466) and Bull Bay (Q4996547), but it may apply to many more entries or grow. The previous names weren't even added as aliases, so now impossible to search with the previous name. I would also note they also seem to be moving a lot of articles on various (non-English) Wikis.

Ping two Wales-based Wikidata editors who may be more accustomed to the issues, @Ham II and @Jason.nlw. Note: I am not opposed to using Welsh names overall, and support such if they become the common name, but not yet, surely? Any help appreciated. Apologies if this is the incorrect place. Even if a switch of the names is supported, surely keeping the old in alias would be helpful to users? DankJae (talk) 23:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae: I've added {{Q}} templates to your first paragraph for ease of reading; I hope you don't mind. Ham II (talk) 06:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I have some sympathy for the English label for Bala Lake (Q1335466) being Llyn Tegid with alias Lake Bala, but its certainly wrong for the British English to only be the former. Vicarage (talk) 23:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Yes I'm not aware of any current finished guidance on this on wikidata.
The reason for the lakes and waterfalls in Eryri (Snowdonia) change was that Welsh names are now the official names for lakes there as was recently in the news and also now seem to be commonly used.
For any other pages not in Eryri, the official English name should be left under "British English" e.g I left Bull Bay as it was for "British English". (Thanks to DankJae for correcting Traeth Coch/Red Wharf Bay. Apologies for any similar mistakes.).
I agree we should be using Welsh names overall. I also think we should be using the Welsh names only, for lakes and waterfalls in Eryri (Snowdonia) on Wikidata as they are now the only official names and seem to be more commonly used also.
Of course, English names should remain the first name on Wikidata for places where bilingual names are both official (outside of Eryri). I would also support keeping English names as aliases if we are to establish a precedent.
Thanks Titus Gold (talk) 02:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
"British English" is largely still English? I doubt "English" refers to the "correct" English preferred by some locals in Wales. Or Turkey (Q43) should be Türkiye, in all languages?
Additionally, considering on entries relating to Anglesey (Q168159), you changed the descriptions for many places from "in Anglesey" to "in Ynys Mon (constituency)"[15], also became concerning.
While you state "official names", you also changed St Asaph (Q548248) to Llanelwy?[16] The official name for that is clearly St Asaph right now, nothing to do with recent decisons on lakes in other parts of Wales. You even intentionally changed the [17] Encyclopædia Britannica Online ID (P1417) of that entry to Llanelwy meaning it is no longer working as EB uses Saint Asaph NOT Llanelwy. So its clear this "lakes and waterfalls" is not your only reason, but part of a wider initative for English names to be removed, and it wasn't a "mistake" until I pointed it out, because you repeated it multiple times.[18] I am even fine with using Llyn Tegid etc in English labels (not sure on other languages), alongside an alias, but removing not only the name but anything that references it seems not only tedious but breaking a lot more things.
Plus surely the recent "official names" event largely only applies to English? Not the dozens of other languages where the English name or its derivatives were removed. Otherwise the Welsh label for Ivory Coast (Q1008) should be Cote d'Ivoire and not this "Arfordir Ifori". DankJae (talk) 11:09, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
@Titus Gold, while you argue "official names" for lakes and waterfalls, the official name for the village of Bull Bay (Q4996547) is Bull Bay not Porth Llechog, with you removing the offical name claim for Bull Bay in this edit. While you say it was a "mistake" this clearly seems an intentional edit because of how precise it needed to be. DankJae (talk) 11:20, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe that old labels are supposed to be kept as aliases as a rule anyway, though personally I wouldn't replicate a former label as an alias if I were correcting an error like a spelling mistake. These places should still be searchable by the English names which have been discredited in official usage, but that can be achieved by having, e.g., Portmadoc (which was dropped long ago) as an alias in a single language (i.e. English) in Porthmadog (Q950671). Then I would expect languages which aren't Welsh or English to use the Welsh names only where that's now the official preference. Ham II (talk) 06:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
@Ham II, I fully agree with the fact that the old name should be an alias, which is why I raised it here. TG intentionally removed them, and on Identifiers that used the "old" name. Porthmadog was an accepted change even on en.Wikipedia, so makes sense for that now to be the label as the clear commonname. While there is the case for other languages to use the Welsh names, is there proof that they so far have? They may, but doubt a few days after the lakes announcement all collectively decided to drop the English name or the derivatives like Lago di Bala. DankJae (talk) 11:17, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
The Eryri Nationa Park Authority have decided to use the Welsh names only, in the Eryri National Park. This is to encourage preservation and use of the Welsh names. This doesn't mean the English language names aren't the common name, or that the English language names have ceased to be used. The Welsh language names certainly aren't now 'English language' names. Sionk (talk) 12:47, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Yep, but another concern is TG has been changing the names in foreign languages into their Welsh names (even in Hebrew and Arabic) over the English ones. Surely and unfortunately most media relating to Wales is in English and would use the English version, (but it could change, but just not on a random day in November 2023 unannounced). Doubt Indonesians use the Welsh name Wrecsam over Wrexham as TG claimed here, especially with the TV show using Wrexham. DankJae (talk) 12:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Yes applied Porth Llechog to all languages except "British English" where I left Bull Bay. Same goes for Wrexham for languages except "British English" where I did not apply it. I'm not aware of an Indonesian spelling for Wrexham, so just applied Welsh spelling. I agree with Sionk that official "British English" names should be left as they are. For other languages other than Welsh or English they seem to mostly just copy the English wikipedia so I thought it would be better to apply the Welsh spelling/name. I didn't think that common name would apply in e.g Indonesian languages since there is no Indonesian spelling for Wrexham and again, the English wikipedia is usually copied.
Again, I'm happy to conform immediately to any precedent that is set and make any corrections based on this. Titus Gold (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Why split off British English? That largely is the same as English? "English" here does not mean "Welsh English" or the English preferred by Welsh-speakers, but the common term in English overall, not just locally correct. I'm not aware of an Indonesian spelling for Wrexham, so just applied Welsh spelling, if you're not aware then don't change it, leave it to actual Indonesians if they get to it. You do not seem to actually agree with Sionk, who is referring to English overall, not the new spin off of "British English" where you demoted the "anglicised name". English Wikipedia is unfortunately the most copied because most other languages will more likely refer to English sources not the Welsh ones, so you're clearly trying to write the great wrong of place-names and promoting Welsh place-names as much as you can. Individually, each language may start to use Welsh names at some point, but you have blanketly applied it to all of them. Both spellings are used, English and Welsh, the most common should take precedent in that language, if sources in that language use the Welsh one more then yes, they should use that, but you provided no evidence, and it is likely they (unfortunately) use the English spelling because of how much more used it is because of how many more speak English. DankJae (talk) 14:07, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Here is two indonesian sources using "Wrexham" not "Wrecsam". [19] [20] DankJae (talk) 14:10, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
So taking Bala Lake as an example, perhaps someone could clarify for me the purpose of the 21 entries of language labels, where half of them just default to the Welsh word with no evidence. It seems to me, but I may be missing something, that if a language doesn't have a word used in that language for the lake, that there should not be an entry at all. Why tell me that the Dutch for Bala Lake is Llyn Tegid, when that is clearly not a Dutch word, and will not be pronounced correctly in Dutch? Because it is not just the "Ll" that is a problem there. In Dutch, Tegid is not going to be pronounced correctly unless a Dutch person applies English orthography rules (which they are much more likely to know than Welsh). In Dutch, that g is a different sound completely.
And do the Dutch have a word for Bala lake? Nope. Here's a source (an older one) that just calls it Bala-meer.[21] which is Bala Lake, using the English word. (Balameer also gets a lot of usage). Here is a newer interesting one: [22]. It is interesting because it has "Llyn Tegid or in English, Bala lake." But that is not a vote for Llyn Tegid. The piece is telling you the Welsh and English names, but then says "Wandel het Bala meer rond" (walk around Bala lake), so there is no Dutch word (unless it is Balameer). Incidentally the Dutch page on the lake is translated from German. So to my original question: shouldn't the Dutch word be blank? It doesn't exist. If it does exist, it is commonly Bala-meer/Balameer, but that is just a borrow word. I don't see the benefit in specifying anything here. What am I missing? Sirfurboy (talk) 14:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
I agree with your arguments. What is missing is the implementation of a mul language code for labels, so a simple query by a Dutch default user doesn't return the unhelpful Q1335466, forcing them to code up complicated logic with official_name (often missing) or the label based on the code of the item's country or location's country or admin area's country (and of course for nested countries like the UK, that can be unhelpful). At the moment en: is often used as a multiple language code, and many people, me included, copy from native language to a en:Label just to get something in the box. Vicarage (talk) 15:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
OK that makes sense, and I can see why you might then use the en:Label as a kind of default. But it is not really a workable solution to add a default for all the languages. The case in point has 21 languages, but there are over 7,000 languages in the world and 339 wikipedia language editions. We do not have 339 entries for each, so some languages are always going to get the unhelpful response. The solution is presumably to fix the software rather than to massage the data everywhere. Sirfurboy (talk) 12:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #604

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Tool of the week
    • Harvest Templates - is a tool that helps transfer data from Wikimedia projects to Wikidata.
    • User:MichaelSchoenitzer/Updown - is a userscript used for faster navigation. If there are a lot of values for one property it will add arrows that allow you to jump to the first/last value.
  • Development
    • We are preparing for the Data Modelling Days happening later this week
    • Language codes:
    • EntitySchemas: We are experimenting with how to work around some technical blockers for the new datatype
    • Wikibase REST API: We've been working on the ability to remove an Item's label in a specific language and modify the descriptions on a Property (phab:T342981, phab:T342981)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

errors on Kristin Shrader-Frechette's wikidata page Kristin Shrader-Frechette (Q6438196)

11-27-23

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the good that you do through wikipedia and wikidata! Unfortunately, despite good intentions, someone who does not know/understand me, my qualifications, or my work has posted 4 separate errors on the wikidata page for me, Kristin Shrader-Frechette. The most accurate information about me is on my university webpage at: <https://biology.nd.edu/people/kristin-shrader-frechette/>. These 4 errors are below, and I would appreciate your correcting them:

1. I am not an American ethicist. Instead I am an American biologist, environmental scientist, quantitative risk 

       assessor, and environmental-justice expert.

2. I am not a philosopher. Instead I am a biologist, environmental scientist, and philosopher of science. 

       (Philosophers of science study scientific methodology.)

3. I am not a Roman Catholic. I believe many different religions all lead to God.

4. You should not list the 2023 COSMOS Award unless you also list all my other MAJOR international awards, namely: 

              1982 US National Science Foundation Interdisciplinary Incentive Award,
              1982 US National Science Foundation Scholar’s Award,
              2011 Jean Mayer Global Citizenship Award
              2023 International COSMOS Award.

Sincerely, Dr. Shrader-Frechette 24.205.94.10 18:12, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Dear Dr. Shrader-Frechette, I started by removing the religion, as the only source is English Wikipedia, where it was added a few years ago by an anonymous edit (and which I also removed). Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
I have changed the description to “American biologist” (as a general rule, descriptions should be short). philosopher of science (Q16389557) is technically a subclass of philosopher (Q4964182) (at least in Wikidata) and the statement can be sourced, so I decided to add preferred rank to philosopher of science and biologist (which effectively means that those values are highlightes). As for the awards: Wikidata operates under an open-world assumption so inclusion of all (major) awards doesn't seem to be critical. We currently don’t seem to have items for three of the awards you mentioned. --Emu (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Requesting input on community wishlist item

I'm planning to introduce this proposal in the 2024 Community Wishlist Survey, which starts in January. I would greatly appreciate feedback before then.

(I sought input from Wikiproject property constraints but didn't get much.) Thanks! Swpb (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@Swpb: I updated the link as the title changed in the wishlist. Please confirm the new name.
Also, I tried to reword the first example in a way that communicated the proposal without requiring the reader to click away to see the example. Please check and confirm that what I did matches your intent. Thanks. Bluerasberry (talk) 15:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing the link. I appreciate what you were trying to do with the first example, but I think fully understanding the example constraint is always going to require going to it, and I'd rather keep the proposal text concise and just include the relevant information. I was more looking for feedback on whether the proposal seems like a good idea, whether it should be implemented differently, etc. Swpb (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Mix'n'match (no preliminary matches)

Hello, why with this catalog, are there 0 preliminary matches? How do I get it to recheck and suggest some? Did I do something wrong when uploading? Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 16:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

@Maculosae tegmine lyncis: This seems to have resolved itself, no? Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
I think it's more the case that I went ahead regardless with this particular catalogue; I have the same issue with this one though; for example, on the second page there is 弘前城史料館, which only appears once on the GeoLOD site, and corresponds exactly with Hirosaki Castle Museum (Q123498760). I don't think it's a native label (P1705) issue, as Aomori Prefecture (Q71699) has a native label (P1705) and didn't get picked up as a preliminary match with the first catalogue above; this catalogue shows it's possible to have preliminary matches in Japanese (even if quite a few aren't right); many thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 17:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

plaintiff versus defendant

Is the inverse property of a plaintiff a defendant? They appear to be opposing litigants. It appears that inverse/opposing are synonyms in this case. I had added it as an inverse property but it was reverted. RAN (talk) 19:39, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  • No - property inverses are for when you have an item A with a statement value B, and you want to express the same relationship on item B pointing to A. "Opposite" in general is not a well-defined concept, but "inverse" has this precise definition. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Sort by year

I added population values by year to this Q4539461 page. However, the years appear to be mixed, not sequential. How can I make these population values visible sorted by year? Thanks. Sadrettin (talk) 15:43, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sadrettin I fixed the statements. You can do it yourself but you have to activate Rearrange Values at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. --Emu (talk) 15:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
@Emu: Do you know if there's a way to rearrange the ordering of references? It would be very useful on Andean Condor (Q170598) (and the like), where the key reference is the last of the 27, rather than the first. If there isn't such a tool, where do I go to request one? Phabricator? Many thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 17:08, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Proposal: add qualifier to allow for fuzzy property values to help with real-life data ambiguity

In mathematics there is such concept as fuzzy sets which allow for non-determinate membership of elements. And here on Wikidata, because of the supposedly strict deterministic nature of all the properties, the information is lost.

Proposal: certain values of some properties can get a qualifier which will signal that they are "fuzzy" which means that certain property's value is possible for a somewhat less-strict definition of a property or in general because our knowledge is limited. So, some Wikidata values will be strict and some others fuzzy.

This is much closer to real life than just discarding legitimate information which is a recipe for censorship-like abuse where different strictness is arbitrarily applied in different cases.

For example, Peter C. G., a scientist, stops maintaining his old webpage and creates a webpage for two-member institution instead (with him as director and another person as deputy) which does no longer count as his webpage. Even though, it still actually is a kind of his webpage and contains information about all of his recent articles and books, just not in a strict enough sense to reach a consensus, so it gets deleted as his official webpage. But there is an Oprah Winfrey's oprah.com which is ran by Harper Productions and it is supposedly OK, and a scientist's site which is ran by him as a director of two person's team, is not OK. Fuzzy values are the saviors of data freedom. Fabius byle (talk) 15:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello Fabius byle, there are for example:
for unprecise, uncertain or outdated information.
Also see Wikidata:Events/Data_Modelling_Days_2023 M2k~dewiki (talk) 19:20, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you, will look into it. Fabius byle (talk) 20:04, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
When it comes to qualifiers, sourcing circumstances (P1480) and nature of statement (P5102) is quite common. That said, for Wikidata you'd want the data to be as unambiguous as possible, since computers deals in absolutes and can't reason very well about vague statements. (limiting ourselves to classic computing and ignoring AI of course) Infrastruktur (talk) 20:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Inverse of P3450

Hi, I'd like to link from the sports league (Q623109) item to its current season; conceptually, the inverse of P3450.

I saw leagues (ex.:UEFA Europa League (Q18760)) with the full season list in has part(s) (P527), which IMHO is incorrect. Any suggestion?. cc.@MisterSynergy, @Xaris333, @Jura1 Thanks. Amadalvarez (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

  • P3450 is a subproperty of P361, whose inverse is indeed P527. This is the closest we have right now.
  • I am not sure whether it adds value if you were to create inverse claims, though. What is the benefit? As much as I am aware, we usually prefer not to make explicit inverse properties/claims anymore, since this is redundant and difficult to maintain in good shape.

—MisterSynergy (talk) 19:01, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, @MisterSynergy. The reason is related with WP infoboxes.
I don't like reverse properties either, but you know we don't have backlink access from WPs. This information is a classic in the articles of competitions that are deployed in sessions. I will try to avoid this infobox functionality. Thanks, again. Amadalvarez (talk) 19:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

How can I move a page on Wikidata?

Hello How can I move a page on Wikidata please? Note that the "Move button" does not appear as is the case with the rest of the wikis Mounir Neddi (talk) 21:33, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Mounir Neddi You should never need to move an item page - item IDs are static and should not be changed. If the label ("page title") appears wrong, you can change this - Help:Label. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add

Please add en:Bgee to Bgee (Q54985720). Item is protected thank you 115.188.140.167 09:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Done. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Collaboration with Purdue Students to Find New Mismatches for the Mismatch Finder: We Need Your Help to Suggest External Datasets!

Hello everyone,

We are excited to announce an upcoming collaboration between the Wikidata development team and data science students from Purdue University. The goal of this collaboration is to identify and address discrepancies between Wikidata and external data sources, potentially providing new useful mismatches for the Mismatch Finder. More details about the project can be found here: Wikidata:Mismatch Finder/Purdue Summer of Data 2024

Project Overview

For those unfamiliar with the Mismatch Finder, it is a tool that identifies potential discrepancies between Wikidata items and external databases, which are then presented to editors for review and correction. This tool also suggests new statements that should be part of Wikidata, but need a human-review step before adding them. As part of this project, the students will work on providing mismatches for the Mismatch Finder and addressing the discrepancies while receiving guidance and support. All their work will be open source and released under open licenses.

Your Participation Matters

We seek your active participation in helping us identify data sources that, when compared with Wikidata, could generate significant mismatches. We are particularly interested in datasets that are free to use, easily accessible, and ideally helpful for data that is used on Wikipedia. We have collected potential data sources that we could work with in T304448, and we would like you to add more to the list.

Beyond dataset suggestions, we would also appreciate your feedback on what exactly we should match, as these datasets are often extensive and broad.

If you have any questions, concerns or feedback, please leave us a note on the project’s talk page: Wikidata talk:Mismatch Finder/Purdue Summer of Data 2024

Cheers, -Mohammed Abdulai (WMDE) (talk) 12:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Andorra (Q228) classified as goods and services

principality (Q208500)

manorialism (Q1550557)
landed property (Q845132)
property (Q1400881)
goods (Q28877)
goods and services (Q2897903)

I am not entirely sure how it should be fixed...

Are all principalities something that can be sold? Is Andorra not a principality anymore?

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Mateusz_Konieczny/failing_testcases#Andorra_(Q228)_classified_as_goods_and_services has some comments but it remained unsolved. BTW, this page has some other similar entries, some of them less tricky Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

There are 2 meanings of property, one being the goods, ie small objects, one being a building and its land. I'd make the link between property and goods a partially coincident with (P1382) rather than a subclass of (P279). landed property (Q845132) might be a break point, but its much less rarely used than property (Q1400881) and its definition in terms of income precludes other sorts of building. Vicarage (talk) 13:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Keep in mind that the validity of statements is not time-dependent: if X used to be a Y, then Xsubclass of (P279)Y is always correct and should not be removed or deprecated (though it should be qualified with "end date"). So there goes that easy way out. But barring the distinction Vicarage is talking about, it's not clear to me that there is anything to be "fixed"; surprising inferences aren't always wrong. Swpb (talk) 11:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
My tool is checking for "end date" qualifier and uses them to discard no longer applicable cases. Currently neither has it so Wikidata claims that currently Andora is a trade good. What seems incorrect, not merely surprising Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 23:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

User contributions

Is it by design that the User contributions special page can display only top edits, but can't display non- top edits? Some sort of social engineering? RudolfoMD (talk) 00:21, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

That page is a basic page of MediaWiki that was designed a long time ago. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
I know it's old, but that make it all the stranger - that it lacks this feature even after all these years. RudolfoMD (talk) 21:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

About the merger of coffer (Q96097957) into casket (Q639460)

Coffer, Q96097957
Casket, Q639460

User:Koreller merged coffer (Q96097957) into casket (Q639460), while I think these are two seperate subjects:

  • Q96097957 was about a coffer, a chest for storing valuables, sometimes serving as a seat or table. See https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q96097957&oldid=1990369618 for the former item. Commons category: Category:Coffers. My addition: they were used by rich people, like kings and lords, and also by local authorities, in the days when there were no trustworthy banks or no banks at all to keep your money, contracts and other valuable document save.
  • Q639460 is a smaller container, usually decorated and/or made of precious materials, generally rectangular with a lock, for jewelry or trinkets. Commons category: Category:Caskets (furniture)

So they have seperate categories on Commons as well, probably more people than only me think that they are seperate objects.

I would like to undo the merger, but Koreller does not, see Talk:Q96097957.

 Question What is your opinion? JopkeB (talk) 07:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I'd not use the term casket for the large item, nor coffer for the small. I'd use chest for the larger, box for the smaller, but that's more blurred. Separate items with casket/coffer primary labels would be my choice. Vicarage (talk) 15:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Vicarage. I do not care so much about the names of the items, if "chest" and "box" are better, it is fine with me. Most important to me is that different concepts have seperate Wikidata items. But I wonder whether "chest" and "box" are indeed the best words/Wikidata items for these concepts:
  • "chest" is already in chest (Q366134) and is about all kind of chests, not only about the ones that were used for storing valuables like money and contracts, where this discussion is about; the coffers have often extra locks like you may expect (see for instance c:File:Eikenhouten geldkist met smeedijzeren beslag, objectnr 8021-A(1).JPG).
  • "box" is already in box (Q188075) and is about all kind of boxes, made of any material and for all purposes; a casket is a specific type of box, specially made for jewelry or trinkets, usually decorated and/or made of precious materials, perhaps something to show off with (which is not the case with for instance moving boxes and packaging boxes).
JopkeB (talk) 06:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
So there is :
For me the coffer (Q639460) and the casket (Q96097957) are the same think so I merged it.
Also all images in the Commons category « c:Category:Coffers » should be placed in one of the following categories : « c:Category:Caskets (furniture) » or « c:Category:Chests ». (* I reversed the two elements, edit 3rd december 2023) — Koreller (discussion) 17:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
@Koreller: Though I appreciate your overview, I think things have been mixed up:
  • casket (Q639460) is about a casket (not a coffer) and was so before you and I get involved, with as description: "container, generally rectangular with a lock, for jewelry or trinkets"
  • https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q96097957&oldid=1990369618 was about a coffer (not a casket) before the merge, with as description: "small type of chest for storing valuables, sometimes serving as a seat or table"
  • chest (Q366134) is indeed about a chest with as description: box-shaped type of furniture.
As I pointed out above, I do not agree that coffer and casket are the same and should be merged.
I do agree that there can be some reorganization in c:Category:Coffers, but only some of the files are not correctly categorized, not all. JopkeB (talk) 05:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Conclusions so far:

Is this enough reason to undo the merger? --JopkeB (talk) 06:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@JopkeB I think you could undo yes — Koreller (discussion) 17:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, Koreller, I shall. JopkeB (talk) 08:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done --JopkeB (talk) 09:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --JopkeB (talk) 09:09, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
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