User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Logo of Wikidata

Welcome to Wikidata, Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike and you can go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!

Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familiarize yourself with:

  • Introduction – An introduction to the project.
  • Wikidata tours – Interactive tutorials to show you how Wikidata works.
  • Community portal – The portal for community members.
  • User options – including the 'Babel' extension, to set your language preferences.
  • Contents – The main help page for editing and using the site.
  • Project chat – Discussions about the project.
  • Tools – A collection of user-developed tools to allow for easier completion of some tasks.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date.

If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Best regards! Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:26, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Project chat page[edit]

Hi Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ),

The project chat page is at Wikidata:Project_chat. Might work better than Wikidata_talk:Project_chat. --- Jura 19:24, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Mabel Boll[edit]

I wanted to know if you have references about the informations you added on Q6721414 ? We can see that your birth date is different from the one on the VIAF site, and I also think that you must have strong sources to support that someone have suffer of mental illness.
If these properties can't be sourced, I'll suppress them. Simon Villeneuve (talk) 12:54, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

She died as a patient in a mental institution. If you took the time to read her Wikipedia entry you would see from the New York Times: "died Sunday of a stroke in Manhattan State Hospital for the mentally ill on Wards Island." Are you assuming that she was a visitor or maybe an employee? Her birth date comes from her passport application of 20 January 1920. This is probably the 50th incorrect VIAF or obituary date I have corrected based on a primary document. Most errors are incorrectly back calculated by subtracting the perceived age from the year of death and are off by a year. Sometimes women shave a year or two off of their age to appear younger, or sometimes men pad on a few years to be older to serve in the military. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi again,
I putted the source for the place of death. I still think that a mental illness is a kind of thing we must source correctly before putting it on a element.
About the passport, I don't know what you are talking about. Do you have a link ? The World Library is saying too that she's born in 1995 : . Simon Villeneuve (talk) 19:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
That is a Wikipedia fork, always read the bottom of the page. It should be pretty obvious in that it has the same infobox and the same headers as the Wikipedia article. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:41, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Ok, but you know that we can't source the date of birth with something like « comes from her passport application of 20 January 1920 » without any link. I just want to believe you man, please help me a little bit. Simon Villeneuve (talk) 20:51, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Family search[edit]

I saw your note at wiki data project chat, suggesting signing up with family search. I just did so. My goal was to find out birthdates. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.

For example consider:

Who has a birth year of 1960 which is referenced.

I see that the wiki data entry

List a birthdate of 9 March 1960, but it doesn't say where it came from. I thought I would try the family search site to see if it would help.

I tried entering her name after clicking on "find", but that didn't seem to help. I'm sure she has a passport; will the find option search on the passport records or is there some other way to do so?--Sphilbrick (talk) 21:21, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

  • Familysearch works best for people born before 1920, you can get their birth from the WWI and WWII draft registration. It is also good for people who died after 1970 because of the Social Security Death Index. Living people is harder, has tax records, but that is a paid subscription. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:41, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Texas Marriage Index[edit]

The Texas Marriage Index has her two marriages:

  • Rhonda L Rompola

Female 9 Sep 1989 Dallas Steven S Haddock

  • Rhonda L Rompola

Female 2 Jun 2007 Dallas David M Dement

Your problem[edit]

You used "Find" instead of "Search". "Find" looks through the database of people that are organized into family trees, and "Search" looks through the records. Here is the search you want:

Yes, I did initially try "find" rather than "search". --Sphilbrick (talk) 00:53, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Public Record Index[edit]

Based on tax and voting registration records: Rhonda L Rompola 9 Mar 1960 934-9258 6346 Ellsworth Ave, Dallas, TX, 75214-2617

I think it turned out I hadn't completed my registration. I did a search and got very limited information but after completing the registration, I am seeing the additional detail that you just listed. Thanks for your help.--Sphilbrick (talk) 21:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
  • It is a great free resource. I just added in 100 missing birth dates and middle names. Don't forget to start a free family tree for your own family. The graphics for the tree are great, and you can attach the documents to the tree and write biographies for people and add in photos. It would cost $20 a month for the same info at --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:59, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


Hello Richard,

You created in october 2015 the item Academy ratio (Q21035981). The item Academy ratio (Q1541540) is the same thing, no? Can we merge? --Tubezlob (🙋) 16:02, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes! perfect, I was wondering why we did not have it already.


if you go to your preferences > gadgets, the first one is a merge gadget. cheers. Slowking4 (talk) 02:21, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I turned it on. Is there a gadget for adding reciprocal relationship links? If someone has 10 children, adding all the sibling and parents links is burdensome. It would be over 100 things to add. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:24, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
i imagine you would need a bot for repeated linking, (which you are better at than me). i'm afraid i stick to the manual tools, for cleaning up after the bots run. (and i have manually uploaded 10k images, so that's how i roll, not that i would recommend it) Slowking4 (talk) 02:30, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Place of Birth/Death Strings[edit]

When adding genealogical data sources, there are sometimes sources that only give the name of a city where a person was born or died without saying where the city is located. Sometimes this means that the city isn't specified unambiguously. To the extent that we want Wikidata to be welcoming of genealogical data, I think it would be good to be able to store strings of places of birth/death, so that data can be added even if the item of the specific town can't be specified. I therefore created a property proposal: What do you think about it? Would you mind adding a support vote? ChristianKl (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Sign your comments[edit]

Hi, I saw a lot of unsigned comments by you in the project chat. It's difficult to follow the discussion if we don't know who wrote the comments. Stryn (talk) 09:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)


It's good to see you here too. You have been busy; great! Robin Patterson (talk) 08:27, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Marriage: start/end dates[edit]

To answer your question raised on Project Chat, my talk page and elsewhere: Wikidata currently uses "end date" on spouse (P26). So yes, you can import it here. That English language Wikipedia wants to use it (or not) is really up to them and has no impact on Wikidata contributions.
--- Jura 11:32, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:49, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

hall of fame inductees (Q49541409)[edit]

Hi Richard, what were you trying to do with hall of fame inductees (Q49541409)? Were you trying to create a new category for properties? Micru (talk) 08:31, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, some biographical entries use "member_of= X hall of fame", which also includes people that work for "X hall of fame", like the president and board members. I wanted to have a category just for inductees. Then I found that other entries use "award_received=X hall of fame" (The Beatles:Award_received=Rock and Roll Hall of Fame) and that is the most populated category, so maybe that is the best way to have them organized, so I stopped. What do you think? How would you organize them? --RAN (talk) 14:04, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Probably it is better to use "award_received=X hall of fame". Should we put that item for deletion? Micru (talk) 07:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Project discussion[edit]

Good afternoon (Norwegian time). Are you aware of this discussion? Quick community survey: notability of family members due to “structural need” [1] I belive you will have something to add there

Military properties[edit]

Good evening! I can see that you are dealing with military Properties
If usefull I have collected my self the enclosed Properties

Military properties
Jean de Lattre de Tassigny (Q81114) Q8018776 Peter Ustinov (Q55796) Carl Gustav Fleischer (Q3499537) Bjarne Øen (Q4570107) German battleship Scharnhorst (Q155222) Army Norway (Q1771854) Bundeswehr (Q56010) Operation Weserübung (Q150939)
commander of (DEPRECATED) (P598) commanded by (P4791) military branch (P241) military rank (P410) position held (P39) conflict (P607) headquarters location (P159) has part (P527) order of battle (P4220)
French Far East Expeditionary Corps (Q2997796) Q21651731 British Army (Q222595) major general (Q157148) military officer (Q189290) World War II (Q362) Lillehammer (Q3745117) German Navy (Q56015) Norwegian Campaign order of battle (Q7061041)

Breg Pmt (talk) 20:02, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


It's PetScan (Q23665536)
--- Jura 21:45, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Asking for support[edit]

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): I have proposed an ID for Norwegian refugees to Sweden during World war 2. Can you have a look and support it if you find it usefull for wikidata? Breg Pmt (talk) 12:04, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Your username after your death[edit]

Hello 👋🏻,

Jeff G. and I were wondering what would happen to your username after you die 💀? Would you let one of your loved ones request a rename to the year of your death? -- Donald Trung/徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 18:10, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Whoever notices me dead first, I hope you will keep an eye out for me! If I do not log into my Google account for 1 month it sends a message to my daughter that I am probably dead.
You are welcome to leave her your username, password, and instructions in your will, or to choose a new username like RAN at M:Special:GlobalRenameRequest.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 23:33, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

village (Q532)[edit]

Hi! This item shouldn't be a subclass of administrative territorial entity (Q56061) (Special:Diff/848987291) as the relation isn't generally true, not all villages are administrative entities. Instead certain instances or village subclasses, e.g. village in the United States (Q751708), for which the relation is true should be set as subclass of Q56061. This is similar to other broad settlement types, e.g. see comments on the same issue in relation to city. --2001:7D0:81F7:B580:8865:DEC0:F1EB:B7CF 07:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that it is causing downstream error messages when a village is used as a place of death and place of birth. Place of death and birth require an "administrative entity" and place of death and birth also requires the most local entry even if it is the hospital. So how we do we solve this? Hospitals do not give error messages but villages do. --RAN (talk) 13:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
place of death (P20) and place of birth (P19) should not give an error as value type constraint for neither is set to "administrative entity".
I now see that you added this subclass relation after doing this: Special:Diff/848986700. Value for located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) should be an instance of administrative entity indeed. So likely solution is to change Glenwood (Q2349434) to be an instance of village in the United States (Q751708) (subclass of administrative entity), instead of village (Q532). Majority of villages in Illinois already are set as instances of Q751708. Or, if this particular village isn't a village in same sense, say, it isn't administrative entity, then location could be given as the value of location (P276), instead of P131 value. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:8047:A9D9:5DA7:68B5 15:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Alright. Now you might want to undo Special:Diff/848987291 too, so that villages that arent administrative entities weren't classified as ones. Thanks. :) 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:8047:A9D9:5DA7:68B5 16:21, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[edit]

Your question about what it means when we say "item" or "topic" in Wikidata[edit]

Hi Richard, I saw that you had a question about "main article items". The term "item" is sometimes switched to "topic" both in Wikidata and Wikipedia. In Wikidata, you will see in official docs the use of both "item" and "topic" when talking about a QID page. Both are OK to say, but I have seen use of "topic" to be more universally understood now, even though wikibase-item is the actual datatype. I recently submitted a change on that page to link to the Wikidata:Glossary. Besides that, items are discussed on the Help:Items page. Hope that helps! Thadguidry (talk) 16:03, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

@Thadguidry: I suspect this was in connection with WD:N, and the distinction there made between "category items" (eg: Category:Paris (Q5626403)) and "main article items" (eg: Paris (Q90). In any case, RAN's question was from two years ago, and the text of WD:N has evolved considerably since then. Jheald (talk) 18:01, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
@Jheald: Thanks for the heads up! Thadguidry (talk) 18:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


Please, big-game hunting (Q4904849) is not a sport (edition). If you want put it in another place, ok for me, but no in sports, because is an activity. Thanks. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 07:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC) @Vanbasten 23: But a synonym for it is "sport hunting" or "hunting for sport" as opposed to hunting for food. I think you are narrowly defining "sport" as "competitive sport". --RAN (talk) 13:06, 7 November 2019 (UTC)


Hello Richard! I believe you are active on WikiTree. I'm not, but have discovered apparent duplicate entries regarding John Early (Q6231048). On WikiTree, Early-506 and Early-681 both approximately match birth/death date and locations. Corresponding pages are at Geni and Find a Grave. If you can investigate and merge these entries, please do. Thanks, -Animalparty (talk) 23:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Will do! --RAN (talk) 00:37, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
  • (talk page stalker) Also I suggest you patrol this section if you ever wanna merge more Wikitree people. ミラP 02:17, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Yikes! Almost as big as VIAF errors. --RAN (talk) 02:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

COVID form[edit]

Hi there,

I've created this form that help set up items like Ronald William Lewis (Q89957906) very quickly. I hope it speaks for itself but if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. --1Veertje (talk) 11:30, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

  • Nice job, thanks! --RAN (talk) 19:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
I should tell you about the hidden feature where if you put in "Tuesday" it will get the last Tuesday before the publication date of the source you're citing as the DOD or if that's not given the last Tuesday before today. I should fix that if the news article is published on a Tuesday it takes that day. At the moment it will be off by a week. It's why the DOD is a free input field. Only English is supported for now. 1Veertje (talk) 06:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Interview Invitation[edit]

Hi Richard,

I noticed your message on Wikidata project chat, which led me to look up your profile. Thank you for all the great work!

I’m reaching out to you because I’m working on a research project about understanding what motivates editors like you to contribute to Wikidata. We’re also interested in learning about how you feel your contributions are being used outside of Wikidata. Since you are such an active community member, I thought you might also be interested in helping to build the broader community’s knowledge about Wikidata, and why it matters.

If you’re interested, let’s schedule a time to talk over Zoom, or whichever platform you prefer. You could leave a direct message or fill in a questionnaire. The conversation should take about 30 min.

Hope you have a great day,

Chuankaz (talk) 23:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Long Time, No See[edit]

Welcome back! I hadn't seen your name in a while and did a double take. I hope that all is well with you. Alansohn (talk) 23:22, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Blocked in English Wikipedia, which is a shame, I find probably three errors a day that go uncorrected. Working here and on the Library of Congress project adding their photos with context to Commons.

The Peerage merges[edit]

I've completed a first sweep through The Peerage marriages, scanning 50,000 at a time with a query like looking for potential candidates for a merge. On your question of how many 'spouse' statements ought to be left on each item, let's see just what the statement combination bots do combine, then I'll raise that question at Project Chat.

However, one thing that worries me, having only just saved myself from merging David Mills (Q5237580) and David Mills (Q3018466) (prompted because the first had marked (incorrectly!) as the spouse of Tessa Jowell (Q272642)), I do worry that I might have introduced some incorrect merges of namesakes.

I've tried to catch the ones that I can, but queries like (multiple fathers) and (multiple mothers) are still showing quite a lot of anomalies.

I don't know how busy you are with other things, but if you could spare any time to help try to go through these and try to investigate why each one may be showing up on the list, I could really use the help. (Some might be conflations of the principals caused by bad merges, some might be simply wrong statements, some might be resolvable as biological/legal/adoptive parents. Thanks! Any help you could spare, I'd be really grateful. Jheald (talk) 18:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Glad to help! A free subscription to Familysearch can help clear up some of the people with the same name. I then add the link to their Familysearch entry in Wikidata. It is maddening when people only have a given name and a surname. Everyone should adopt the Spanish naming system where your mother's maiden name is your middle name.
They get harder and harder as you fix the easy ones first! --RAN (talk) 03:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Q98537072, Q104747614[edit]

Hi. Would you mind clarifying the difference, if there is one, between your creations transposed birth and death dates (Q98537072) and transposed birth and death dates (Q104747614)? Thanks, Phleg1 (talk) 09:02, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

  • @Phleg1: Good catch, I merged them. --RAN (talk) 13:36, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Q105080687 and Q105080700[edit]

I just stumbled upon the newly created his death (Q105080687) and her death (Q105080700) and don't fully understand the need for them, because with death of spouse (Q24037741) and sex or gender (P21) of the partner it could have been inferred. This way Wikidata can contradict itself: e.g. diff 1350598877 suggests Bernhard Hans Schwerin (Q59164080) male partner Eva Amalie Rutkowski (Q60566079) died leaving him a widower, even though he himself died and she is female. (Note the difference between death of spouse (Q24037741) and death of person (Q99521170), see end cause (P1534)) --CamelCaseNick (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

  • Let me re-examine it, thanks for bringing it up. You can bring it up to a wider audience and see if there is consensus to merge. Many properties can be inferred or calculated which is great if the entries are just being used as a database to search, but I have been using Wikidata as a sort of micropedia, especially where the person does not have an entry in a Wikipedia. This was also an issue in Wikipedia in the infobox, it wasn't always obvious which of the two died, without looking at other data fields. "death of spouse" and "death of person" just weren't obvious enough for me to figure out which person died. When I see this I always ask myself "which person" and have to look at the death dates again. "death of spouse" and "death of person" are still good for same gender marriages. --RAN (talk) 20:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Independent of whether to separated death of spouse (Q24037741) into two items or not: death of spouse (Q24037741) is supposed to be used for when the spouse of the person, on whose item the statement is on, died. death of person (Q99521170) for when this person died and not the spouse. Because the way you modelled your new items Special:Diff/1350633839 technically means, that Eva Amalie Rutkowski (Q60566079) died and that Eva Amalie Rutkowski (Q60566079) is male. --CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
OK, now I see more clearly why it is confusing, I guess inherent ambiguity will still be a problem with both models. I tried to solve one ambiguity and just replaced it with another. Thanks for your input! --RAN (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)