User talk:ChristianKl

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About this board

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Welcome to Wikidata, ChristianKl!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike and you can go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!

Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familiarize yourself with:

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If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Best regards! Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:46, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:ChristianKl/Archive 1 on 2016-08-31.

MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)


The Structured Data team is working on an alternative, image-focused prototype for media search on Commons. The prototype uses categories, structured data as well as wikitext from Commons, and Wikidata to find its results. The development team would like your feedback on the prototype, as they are looking to work to further enhance the search experience on Commons. If you have a moment, please look over the project page set up on Commons to find a link to the prototype and leave your feedback on the talk page. Thanks for your time, I'll be posting message similar to this one to other pages on Commons. The team is looking forward to reading what you think. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Reply to "Commons - Media Search"

Making statements about characteristics of other users

MrProperLawAndOrder (talkcontribs)

Please adjust your behavior and stop making statements about characteristics of other users, e.g. about their willingness or competence.

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

In this case, you seem to complain because after you harrassed me three different times I'm addressing that you should instead focus your energies on productively contributing.

Apart from that I think it's worthwhile to point out to people who are new to Wikidata and don't have an overview over the way we do things at Wikidata that this is the case. I don't see why that's improper.

MrProperLawAndOrder (talkcontribs)

You claim I harrassed you, this again is a personal attack. Please provide the diffs for these "three different times".

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

Just because you want me to do things doesn't mean that I have to do what you want.

MrProperLawAndOrder (talkcontribs)

Where are the diffs for your claim about me?

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I rather focus my time on Wikidata on bringing Wikidata forward then on following your requests.

MrProperLawAndOrder (talkcontribs)

But why do you spend time on making negative, probably false [you don't show the evidence], statements about other users instead of "rather focus my time on Wikidata on bringing Wikidata forward"?

If you would follow the initial request made here ("Please adjust your behavior and stop making statements about characteristics of other users, e.g. about their willingness or competence.") you would have even more time for "bringing Wikidata forward".

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I have to spent time making comments because you open discussions such as this discussion on my page that require me to spend some time being responded. If you would just stop opening discussions or pinging me to have to respond to your demands to do things, I would prefer that. Nobody appointed you to go around and ask people to behave different.

Reply to "Making statements about characteristics of other users"
SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

Please review Ulysses (Q6511). This is yet another example of the need for a property "banned in". How would you structure this entry such that the end date for the ban in the UK & the US can be represented without conflict? Thanks for your help.

ps: I noticed your interest in "permitted in" "prohibited" with regard to personal information. Did you have a chance to look at the DRM-type structure I linked on your property proposal (authorization of subject)?

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

To me it looks like the information that you added is factually wrong. The ban seems to have ended in 1933 and not started in that year. You also added the information on the item for the book and not on an item for the act that banned the book which was likely a decree by the Sir Archibald Bodkin's (Director of Public Prosecutions) office from 1922.

SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

Nope, that's not the problem. The date entered describes the end of both bans (that's why I use the qualifier "end time" and not "point in time"). Adding a beginning time would require adding a second qualifier. I seemed to remember ArthurPSmith saying statements could not be double-qualified.

There is a very significant problem, but it's a structural one, which I think could be avoided by using a "banned in" property rather than using P31 + the "banned book item" that was created last year. See if you can find it by looking again.

If not, you can scroll over the following: the end times are in contradiction because they are not applied to the countries. This is because "banned book" is not a property but is a reified entity/item. SashiRolls (talk) 17:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Reply to "banned books"
SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

You suggested I was incompetent because I did not understand your statement 5 is 1 not N (here). Before making sweeping statements and demanding deference, could you explain your statement, please? You seem to agree that it might be important that Wikidata be able to identify where and when items like "Slavery" or "Benfluorex" were banned. Let's try to stick to the task and avoid sniping with unjustified statements. (Yes, I'm rusty on db design. It is not my day job. Please try to be pedagogical and pleasant if you have something you want to explain.) 5 is 1 not N? SashiRolls (talk) 10:08, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

(I would like to understand the performance issues you think are related.) I apologize if my subsequent example about "educates" was unclear. I was saying that specifying an agent does not make sense in that case, whereas in the case of a ban it does. SashiRolls (talk) 10:27, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I do think it's worthwhile to understand that you are not competent to make certain judgements when coming into a new project and don't have the theoretical background for the way it's decisions are being made. Being explicit about this isn't

I think I spent a reasonable amount of time trying to explain to you the issues. I offered an opportunity of how statements like slavery being banned can be stated. Instead of accepting that suggestion and trying to come to a consenus around it you tried to engage in a discussion that leads nowhere. You weren't sticking to bringing the task in any meaningful way.

SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

I do not think such nonsense is worthwhile. If I did, I would comment on your difficulties expressing simple ideas. "I offered an opportunity of how statements like slavery being banned can be stated." <-- you did no such thing, you proposed a new property (bans) after I proposed the property "banned in", then freaked out when I asked you why you preferred the active voice.

I understand English is not your native language, but this is not an excuse for saying things like "5 is 1 not N," as though that should be immediately comprehensible to anyone reading. Writing so poorly is not spending a "reasonable amount of time trying to explain the issues".

It's as you wish... we can be explicit if you wish about my perception of your incompetence too if you'd like. Or we can try to understand one another and be respectful and help explain things where necessary. We *have* moved the question closer to a solution (for slavery). As you may have seen I created the item "ban of involuntary servitude" (borrowing ArthurP's suggestion about reification). I used your suggested ("in jurisdiction" -> US) as a qualifier when I assigned "instance of ban of involuntary servitude" to the 13th amendment of the US Constitution, because that part of your communication was clear. When you are clear, you see, I listen to what you have to say.

We are still no closer to a solution characterizing the general predicative relation for which I suggested creating the property (banned in) ... but a work-around structure now exists for slavery thanks to this new item (ban of involuntary servitude). This probably begins to address the fact that until now apparently WikiData could not provide a list of dates when slavery was banned around the world. That was one of the goals of presenting the property proposal concerning "banned in", but by no means the only one. If you wish to help improve the descriptive capabilities of Wikidata, I look forward to your continued participation. If instead you want to assert your skills in ungrammatical sentences, I think I'll pass. SashiRolls (talk) 21:50, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

"5 is 1 not N" is fine grammar-wise. Grammar-wise it's like "water is blue not red" It might not be understandable for people who don't no what 1 or N means in this context because they never dealt with the theory of algorithmic complexity but that doesn't make it ungrammatical.

The pattern of using instance of (P31) is this way goes against the way we use that property.

SashiRolls (talkcontribs)

Since nobody every mentioned 5... it is mysterious why you would make the claim 5 is 1 not N. The problem is one of anaphora.

Please try to write grammatically. It is disrespectful to take so little time writing that you mistake "no" for "know" and "is" for "in" (especially when accusing others of being incompetent). I also very seriously doubt the truth of the content in sentences #1, #2, & #3. The thirteenth amendment is indeed an instance of a ban of involuntary servitude, as was the emancipation proclamation in the Russian Empire, as was the Slave Trade Act. It looks like very much like you're just being stubborn here...

Reply to "Personalizing debate"
Trade (talkcontribs)
ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I mostly work on other aspects of Wikidata then counter-vandalism. I agree with Jasper, that it likely would be good if you had admin rights to deal with issues like this.

Trade (talkcontribs)

What aspects do you work on?

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

Policy work, defining new properties and deleting existing ones are what's most important to me.

After watching the interview of the person today, I sent them an email asking about having the Archive contribute to backup Wikidata reference links.

Reply to "AN"
Trade (talkcontribs)

Do you know what the deal with this item is?

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I don't know for certain. It seems that either the subject of the item or someone who wants to promote the subject spend a lot of effort to add information to the item and engage in vandalism against people who remove bad claims from it.

Reply to "Prem raj P"
ZI Jony (talkcontribs)
ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I changed it in my profile.

Wikipedia-Artikel "nennen", einbinden

Einfach machen Hamburg (talkcontribs)

Hallo Christian, ich habe das Datenobjekt Q86431433 angelegt. Es beschreibt die MARKE, nicht ein Unternehmen. Meiner Meinung nach kann da auch der Artikel in der en.wp eingebunden werden, also Mir zeigt das System aber immer einen Fehler an, wenn ich das machen will, keine Ahnung warum. In diesem Kontext sehe ich, dass die Artikelverbindungen (Interwikilinks) völlig durcheinander gehen. Es gibt einen Wirrwarr von Artikeln über die Marke und solchen über Unternehmen. Kannst du helfen? ~~~~

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

Ein Artikel kann zu einem Zeitpunkt immer nur auf einem Wikidata Datenobjekt verlinkt sein. Du must also entweder den bestehenden Interwiki Link auf Q1759255 zuerst entfernen oder dort das Move-Gadget einsetzen.

Einfach machen Hamburg (talkcontribs)

Lieber Christian. Hat geklappt, danke dir für den Hinweis. Grüße - Peter

Reply to "Wikipedia-Artikel "nennen", einbinden"
So9q (talkcontribs)

Hi, I saw that you recently deleted a bunch of concepts that are referenced from Lexeme:L3828

How come you did not discuss this first, say in the RfD page? Did you forget to check whether they were linked to a lexeme = fulfilling a structural need?

Also, I don't understand why you only deleted some of the concepts linked from the lexeme. Q76664561 and Q76664785 still exist?

The lexeme is now effectively crippled following your deletions and I cannot find replacement Q-items that cover the senses (e.g. we have no concept of organize or organizing, neither of grabbing or holding). Could you please restore these and merge them discuss merges on the talk page of the items with the Q-items you think they a duplicate of?

I believe these all are notable as they fulfill a structural need. If you do not agree with this I suggest you join the discussions on Wikidata talk:Lexicographical data where the prevailing opinion is that a Q-item that fits a noun or adjective is not suitable to add to a verb form of (roughly) the same sense which is what lead me to create these items.

Thanks in advance for restoring these.

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I did and I explained the core of the issue to you at the project chat.

The description for item for this sense (P5137) is "concept corresponding to this sense of a lexeme". The delete items were about words. Words are names of concepts and not the same thing as the concept towards which they point and as such no good values for item for this sense (P5137).

On the talk page of the property you see a suggestion of how verbs are linked with examples like Ex. 3: be (exist) --(item for this sense (P5137))--> existence (Q468777) You find that it's not linked to a new item about "be" that's P31 "word".

I'm not aware of any discussion that changed what item for this sense (P5137) was defined to do to something else. If you think such a discussion happened, feel free to link to it.

So9q (talkcontribs)

Thanks! I was not aware of that discussion. Its now more clear to me how to link properly. 😃

So9q (talkcontribs)
ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

Yes, I deleted most of them. There's on Japanese that I sent to Requests for deletion given that I don't speak Japanese and don't know enough for what it is about.

Reply to "Regarding your deletions"
So9q (talkcontribs)

Hi :)

You wrote here that you created anki decks from wikidata. Could you elaborate how you did that exactly? I would like to extract danish pictures, words and senses.

ChristianKl (talkcontribs)

I didn't create anything automatically. In general most of the time you spend with an Anki card will be reviewing the card and not creating the card. I simply looked up anatomical structures and got the translations from Wikidata.

Reply to "Anki deck"