Drawings by Leonardo da Vinci
Hi Multichill, hope all is well with you. I've been revisiting the project I mentioned at Wikidata talk:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Archive/2021 § Drawings by Leonardo da Vinci lately. I'm afraid I still haven't succeeded in generating Wikidata items from my spreadsheet on Google Docs. I've tried copying and pasting the example code you gave in that talk section into QuickStatements as CSV commands, but when I run it I only get error messages. I've also tried to copy and paste chunks of text from my spreadsheet, reformat it as CSV commands and run that, but without success. Do you have any idea why the example code might not be working? One filename has been retitled (File:Leonaredo, studio per l'adorazione dei magi, uffizi.jpg → File:Leonardo, Studio per l'Adorazione dei Magi, Uffizi.jpg) but I've tried it with the new filename and it still doesn't work. Best, Ham II (talk) 14:40, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
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You're welcome. I wish to let you know that your bot has been creating a lot of duplicate items with Property:P4887, most of which had to be merged (mostly by me) recently. Thus, I think you should find a way to prevent future accidental duplicates, either by putting the data into OpenRefine and reconciling the names to possible matches based on auxiliary data, or by importing a catalogue with the data into mix'n'match, where potential matches would be found based on auxiliary data. ミラP@Miraclepine 16:07, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Miraclepine: that's strange. I've been importing Web Umenia works and artists for several years now. Usually only a couple of new artists with a few duplicates, never this amount of duplicates. They must have added a lot of new data at the source. Thanks for merging them.
- Oh, I see the problem now. https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/1038 is not updating. It should have over 9000 records, but it only has 6719 records. @Gerwoman: do you still have the code to update that catalog? Can you update it? Multichill (talk) 17:46, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
About inventory numbers
Regarding your revert, are there specific guidelines prohibiting two collections on a single number? I was first a bit disappointed when I saw QS had added to your existing entries but after second thought I found it's quite ok this way, as it is actually the same number which is passed along by the museums to which the painting is assigned. Do you strongly prefer having two distinct statements? You added quite some new items which are all lacking a lot of basic data. I started doing some by hand, but given the scale QS is the only reasonable solution, and I guess we have to do with what it can handle. Otherwise maybe you can have your bot work on tidying all entries as you like them, instead of reverting a single one?
- Hey Nono314, I was about to leave you a message, but you beat me to it. I'm working on paintings stolen during WW2. I started with the Linz Collection (warning, big page) also known as Führermuseum (Q475667). I noticed a lot of overlap and connecting inventory numbers for Musées Nationaux Récupération (Q19013512) so I did a basic import for that collection too. I was amazed that it wasn't on Wikidata already. Makes me wonder what else is missing for France.
- I'm far from done. I'm just doing the second pass of the Linz Collection to add a lot of missing data and also have to do that for Musées Nationaux Récupération (Q19013512). Still have to see what data is up for grabs.
- Thanks for adding more data to these items. I prefer distinct inventory number (P217) for consistency and ran into the same issue with Quickstatements. Ended up having a bot clean it up. I'll do that for these too at some point.
- I expect a lot of duplicates. These will become more easy to find after more data (including images) have been added. It almost looks like auction houses and museums are trying to hide the provenance of these paintings. Multichill (talk) 20:49, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hello Multichill, yes I figured out later you had actually started on the German side after first stumbling on some of your stub MNR entries. The consensus used to be not having Musées Nationaux Récupération (Q19013512) as collection (P195) but rather the actual museum collection, which was surprisingly absent from your import. Granted, having already everything scraped in local databases, it was not too difficult for me to add them with their ids through a join. I also fixed creators not solved by the bot and added Commons images when available, also quite some location (P276). Still missing: dimensions and mediums ; I might submit a PR to your importer. Do you have some plans to improve past collections with dates to help sort out this kind of things? Note, I only found a couple duplicates among MNRs, ids helped your bot figure out most of them. I see you have now also uploaded images: b&w is not looking too bad, though modern color images would be nice too :)
- Indeed, heck a lot is still missing for France! Just 2 numbers: Joconde has around 75,000 paintings online vs. 13,000 on WD, and even for the Louvre their online collections feature almost 10,000 paintings vs. less than 6,500 on WD (up by ~10% through recent MNR additions). I have always felt like you were avoiding France for your imports, and you're probably the largest contributor in that domain, so there is a huge space for growth. Nono314 (talk) 21:04, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Nono314: Multiple collections seem to confuse people. I always use The Night Watch (Q219831) as an example of a painting being in multiple collections and of course I had to restore it again. I'm really getting of that one user constantly making a mess of paintings. I wrote a bot in a similar case to add start and end time to each collection. Could probably do the same in this case to get a nice provenance overview and only the current collection(s) as preferred.
- Anyway, was still planning to do a second pass on the MNR paintings. Let's see what can still be added. I assume a lot
- Regarding the images. Could use a hand with https://w.wiki/56Um . When the painter has been added, the robot will upload it to Commons:Category:Paintings in the Sonderauftrag Linz. The images are not very good, but at least makes visual identification a lot easier to merge duplicates.
- Your feeling is correct. I stayed away from France because other people seemed to be working on it. I always assumed that if people started working on a collection, they would also finish it. Any idea why this didn't happen? Would love to get these complete. It's not that I don't like the collections, I really loved visiting Louvre and Orsay again last Summer and will visit some more museums in Paris in a couple of weeks. Maybe complete some of the collections also on Wikidata. For my imports artdatabot is doing all the work. Per collection I have a generator that just grabs the metadata for all the paintings, for example for Linz or Rijksmuseum. Multichill (talk) 21:36, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- Users tend to mess with the data to get the display they want, that's why the risk is higher if a bunch of collections appears without apparent order.
- I never meant you didn't like the collections :) But I guessed you were more focused on countries that are more opendata-friendly, i.e northern ones. One notable exception being the municipal museums of Paris that got fully uploaded as a partnership with frwiki after going open. Louvre and Orsay did get mass uploads quite early on, and there was probably less data available online back then. This was huge for the time and I wouldn't blame anyone for not following up. Speaking for myself, I usually only do small to medium batches (a couple hundreds at most) as my workflow involves semi-automated steps, and thus I tend to focus on significant paintings from notable artists. I've been keeping an eye on your git repo for a few years now, but have sticked to QS for my usage. Nono314 (talk) 19:45, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Nono314: coming back to the provenance. I proposed a Linz DB ID property to make that part easier to maintain and I wrote some provenance documentation which also includes a part about WW2 and use of preferred ranks. Basically this query should be empty. Here we should add all the data qualifiers and give the current collection(s) a preferred rank. A bit too much work to do by hand so I'll have to dust off one of the bots to do that. I have to think about what date qualifiers I'll add. Multichill (talk) 13:10, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- Property_talk:P421#Transitive_instead_of_data_duplication. Multichill (talk) 11:53, 14 May 2022 (UTC)