User talk:MisterSynergy

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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:MisterSynergy/Archive 1 on 2015-11-09.

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Q57557349 - there was no team dressage in 1960

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

done

VIGNERON (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Restored, of course.

It is kinda odd that backlinks do not appear at Special:WhatLinksHere/Q54176537. I always look at the WhatLinksHere page to see whether there is any use of the items or not. Do you know whether this is a bug?

VIGNERON (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

There was a similar undeletion request very recently at Topic:Umplee3hmjsneu0b further down this page. In that case, deletion was also done by me in June, but nobody realized it until now (@Jura1).

I can remember that in June several new lexicographical-related items appeared on my deletion worklist User:MisterSynergy/sysop/empty items. There was no indication for actual use, so after a couple of days without any changes I deleted them, just as I would have done so with any other item (I delete 1000+ items per week on average, most of them either of technical nature like empty category items, or accidentially created duplicates which are empty).

Meanwhile backlinks can indeed be seen via the Query Service, but this is a relatively new feature. I would find it extremely helpful if backlinks also appeared at Special:WhatLinksHere as soon as they are in use. This is the place to look at during deletions, not an individual query per deletion.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)
Denny (talkcontribs)

I think it is a duplicate, yes, thanks for finding it.

Reply to "Q54176537"
Steak (talkcontribs)

Wie schwierig wäre es, von Fernschachspieler-Datenbankeinträgen wie z. B. https://www.iccf.com/player?id=510006 die Titel und Titeljahre zu crawlen und in die entsprechenden Items einzufügen?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ich würde sagen wir bearbeiten erst einmal die andere Geschichte weiter unten auf meiner Disk. Das hier bleibt solange offen, bis ich mir das genauer angeschaut habe. Könnte etwas dauern.

Auf den ersten Blick: das sieht nicht ganz so einfach aus, weil die Datenbank geschickt die Zugänglichkeit erschwert (technisch: es sind nur wenige id- und class-Attribute an den HTML-Elementen im Quelltext angegeben). Unmöglich ist aber nichts, nur im Zweifel fummeliger zu extrahieren…

Steak (talkcontribs)

Ok, dann muss es nicht sein, es war nur als Aufgabe zwischendurch gedacht falls es sehr einfach gewesen wäre. Ich setze es auf erledigt.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Wieder geöffnet. Mir ist eingefallen, dass es auch PDFs gibt, die recht übersichtlich sind, z. B. für Fernschach-Großmeister hier: https://www.iccf.com/userfiles/files/2012%20LGM.pdf. Kannst du ICCF-ID mit den Items hier matchen und Titel und Jahr ergänzen?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ich kriege das nicht direkt aus dem PDF heraus extrahiert, auch wenn das bestimmt technisch irgendwie möglich ist.

Wenn ich das richtig verstehe, gibt es da mehr als das eine PDF-File. Wenn Du alle PDFs händisch in einer Textdatei/wikitext-Seite duplizierst – unformatiertes c+p mit einer Zeile je Tabellenzeile reicht völlig aus – dann wäre das aber in der Tat ziemlich einfach.

Steak (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ja, das passt so. Weiter nun:

  • Bei "Simagin, Vladimir Pavlovich -- RUS -- IM -- 1965" fehlt die ICCF-ID in dem File. Irgendwie verloren gegangen?
  • Ich bräuchte nun ein Mapping der fünf Titel zu Q-IDs:
    • GM
    • SIM
    • LIM
    • LGM
    • IM
  • Wenn möglich, würde ich auch die URLs der jeweiligen PDFs haben wollen, dann können wir nämlich gleich auch Fundstellen ergänzen. Ist doch richtig, dass da ein PDF je Titel existiert, oder?

Wir können später auch noch "country" und "name" mit P27/P1532 sowie label/alias abgleichen.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Die PDFs sind hier ganz unten verlinkt: https://www.iccf.com/Titles.aspx . Im entsprechenden IM-PDF hat Simagin auch keine ID, also insofern passt das. Ich hab ihn grade händisch erledigt.

Q-IDs:

GM: Q3818700

SIM:Q27579729

IM:Q4288508

LGM: Q51281931

LIM: Q51288964

Country und den Rest dann später, japp. Teilweise kann es sein, dass bereits ein Titel in den Items eingetragen ist, aber eine andere Jahreszahl. Es wäre gut wenn du diese Fälle in einer Textdatei protokollierst.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Das räumen wir später auf, mit einer Abfrage.

Ich habe eben gesehen, dass wir nur knapp 300 ICCF-ID hier hatten. Gerade habe ich noch einmal den entsprechenden Mix'n'match-Katalog durchgeschaut und knapp 500 weitere IDs ergänzt. Wir haben aber bei weitem nicht alle gut 3000 Titelträger hier in Wikidata. Übersehe ich etwas?

Steak (talkcontribs)

Ne du übersiehst nichts, die Abdeckung ist wirklich nicht besonders gut. Aber was bleibt uns übrig? Die Items jetzt spontan zu erstellen ist wahrscheinlich nicht so sinnvoll, da ja nicht mal Geschlecht oder Geburtsdatum importierbar ist.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ich habe Dir den Input für QuickStatements2 auf Deiner Seite abgelegt. Immerhin 338 Titel von den gut 3000 kannst Du damit ergänzen.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Vielen Dank, ist durchgelaufen. Jetzt müsste man noch ein paar Sachen hinterherräumen, z. B. bei Q15688969 stehen jetzt zwei Jahreszahlen.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Vermutlich kann man es rechtfertigen, dass man die differerierenden Jahreszahlen entfernt, aber ganz trivial ist es nicht (daher mein Hinweis am Anfang). Z. B. bei Q3821648 gibt das ICCF-Profil andere Jahreszahlen an als die PDF-Dateien.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Alle erledigt. In vier Fällen waren zwei verschiedenen Jahre angegeben, das habe ich anhand der Quelle angepasst. In ca. 15 Fällen waren zwei identische Jahreszahlen als Qualifikatoren angegeben, was ich ebenfalls repariert habe.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Danke, immerhin nur vier Abweichungen. Ein paar Titelträger scheinen in den PDFs auch zu fehlen, zumindest gibt es mehr Einträge in den Profilen. Aber das meiste ist da. Damit ist das hier wohl erledigt.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Sonst sag gern nochmal Bescheid. Das war jetzt kein großer Akt.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Achso, wie ist das mit den Verbänden und dem Label-Abgleich? Also Verbands-Statements wären ja easy, du hast ja vermutlich noch das Mapping ISO-Kürzel -> QID. Aber: Sollte man als Qualifier für den Verband dann sowas wie "betrifft: ICCF" ergänzen? Tendentiell würde ich sagen nein, aber es kann theoretisch Fälle geben, bei ein Spieler bei der FIDE für einen anderen Verband antritt als bei der ICCF. Man könnte dann natürlich auch nur in so einem Spezialfall mit Qualifier arbeiten?

Steak (talkcontribs)

Frage übersehen oder zu beschäftigt?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Zu beschäftigt. Solange das hier offen ist, geht das eh nicht verloren. Dauert nur im Zweifel etwas :-)

Der Countrycode gibt in der Tabelle den Verband an, für den der Schachspieler antritt, richtig? Wie würde das eigentlich am besten modelliert werden? Mit country for sport (P1532)? Dann würde ich vorschlagen, wir ergänzen das nur dann wenn der Wert von dem country of citizenship (P27)-Wert abweicht, sofern ein solcher vorhanden ist.

Steak (talkcontribs)

Ich würde bevorzugen, dass P1532 immer ergänzt wird. Schon allein aus praktischen Gründen, damit man in Listen wie Wikidata:WikiProject Chess/Lists/GM die Nationalitätsspalte einfach weglassen kann.

Reply to "Fernschachspieler-Daten"

BBLd switches to ISNI - user re-inserts 1000+ now broken IDs

6
77.180.8.47 (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Tobias, I’m not really interested.

However, since you’re now reading here: you can’t just overwrite identifiers even if they don’t work any longer, and @Jura1’s reverts were correct. You need a new property if they change their database that much.

Jura1 (talkcontribs)

Looks like we need to fix this.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

No idea what the current state is, but it is quite likely that this needs to be fixed. However, this is not a proper page to discuss how to proceed; I suggest to raise this at Project chat instead. You have my support for a solution that sets the old identifiers, deprecates the formatter URL in case the links are not available any longer, and create a new property for the new identifiers.

Jura1 (talkcontribs)

Sure, feel free to close this. There is some discussion at Property_talk:P2580 and Magnus got lead to change some despite being asked not to. I wonder if isn't related.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

That’s clearly a sock of our ISNI expert.

Soll ein Hinweis auf falsche GND in die Beschreibung?

2
Summary by Wurgl

Hab ich so gemacht.

Wurgl (talkcontribs)

Q57250947 (history) Die Frage ist vielleicht doof, aber nicht nur eine IP hat das in die Beschreibung gepappt, auch ein altgedienter User hat das zuvor schon gemacht. Dass diese IP vermutlich der bekannte ISNI-Troll sein könnte, ist wiederum eine ganz andere Sache.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Nein, das gehört da natürlich nicht hin. Auf der Objekt-Disk wäre Platz dafür.

Jura1 (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Sure, done!

Jura1 (talkcontribs)

Hi, would you undelete Q56878195 and possibly add a sitelink? Unfortunately the page is in user namespace. I will try to edit it so it wont appear on the report.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Sure, done.

Das große Lexikon der DDR-Sportler

12
Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

I have the 2004 edition of this book on my shelf. Obviously, with electronic databases of individuals, they have an ID and can have an entry at Wikidata. Is the same done for books that contain bios? It says in the foreword that 755 athletes competed at Olympic Games and the remaining 245 bios cover those who have won world or European championships, and/or were "most popular". Hence, they'd all be notable.

I'd happily sit down and compile a spreadsheet with:

  • item identifyer
  • page number(s)

Could that be useful? If so, maybe you could give me a spreadsheet that has the following:

  • item identifyer of GDR Olympic attendee
  • label (name)

I'd then add the other 245 bios to it and then add the page numbers. The complication with this approach is that the page numbers will only be correct for the 2004 edition of the book; the 2000 version was a bit shorter. But maybe that's just another property that could be added over time (by those who have access to the 2000 edition).

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

This is typically not done with external identifiers, but there are possibilities.

First of all, for printed works we typically distinguish between work items and edition items, to address your concern from the your paragraph. Technically: we use an approach similar as in the "FRBR model". When using as a source, one refers to an edition item in order to provide exact pages and so on as qualifiers. As far as I see, there is neither a work item nor a edition item for this book right now, so both would have to be created and possibly also for older and newer edition we want to have items as well, besides your 2004 edition.

From my opinion, use of described by source (P1343) would be the best and most appropriate solution here. I also explicitly think this would be very valuable to have. The statement would link to the edition item (here: 2004 edition of the work), and page(s) (P304) qualifiers pointing to pages could be added as qualifiers.

It would indeed be sufficient to compile a "QID --> page(s)" mapping in a spreadsheet, and then transform this into input for a batch processing tool that adds this reference as a statement to all 1000 items automatically. I could make the transformation to tool input from the mapping, and provide it to you for the actual processing. However, it looks like the big task here is to lookup all the Q-IDs, where I am not sure right now how to do this efficiently. Querying and automatic mix-n-match on names could certainly help. As a start, I can offer 1394 GDR citizens with a Sports-Reference identifier in Wikidata (you can download the result as TSV or so), which is probably the best measure to identify Olympic GDR participants (according to SR, there are 1360 of them; diff likely due to double citizenships and 1992-and-later participations of former GDR citizens).

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Excellent. Let's do it then. Have just figured out where the big discrepancy comes from; Kluge is talking about 755 Olympic medallists! I guess there's nothing in Wikidata that keeps track of medals. Should there be? Could there be?

Either way, it could be useful to also include P734 (family name) in the query as Kluge sorts the book by that. Not everyone will have their surname listed and it could be useful to have that as a starting point and add the missing ones manually (or better still, see what could be added within Wikidata and then export again).

And we should filter for Olympic event. Sorting by birth year, I see that the oldest people listed participated in 1908 or 1912. We are only interested in events between 1956 and 1988. East Germany didn't participate in 1952.

Once I've done a few basic things in Excel, I can then put the spreadsheet into Google Docs and let you (and other interested editors) know where it lives. That way, further amendments to the spreadsheet can be done by others, too. Once the spreadsheet itself is in good nick, I can go through the book and identify who's there, who is not, and who needs adding.

Any other thoughts?

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

I've done a bit of work with the query output. There's now an occupation defined for everyone. The first 100 or so now have the individual sporting events linked rather than just the Olympic year. I've also started adding missing family names but it'll become easier once you've added that field to the query (I tried to do so myself but did not succeed). I've noted that everybody has a birth year defined (the query looks like birth year being optional and I'd be surprised if everyone's birth year was known).

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

There should be information about Olympic results in Wikidata, but we barely have this yet. Not even participation information is close to being complete.

I have now iterated over all SR profiles of GDR citizens to retrieve this information directly, and added a filter for GDR medallists to the query, see here. 664 results, so some 91 are still missing. Not sure whether no items exist, no GDR citizenship information exist, no SR profile link exists, or something is wrong with the profiles or with my evaluation script.

I suggest to split the names at spaces in a spreadsheet and sort by family name then.

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Thanks; I'll have a look. There will be more missing than 91 as I noticed this morning that Kluge does not list all individuals who have medalled in a team sport; looked at a couple of soccer bronze medallists this morning.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Mh.

Does the book have an index of biographies, ideally including a mapping to pages (i.e. "sportsperson name --> page in book")? An alternative approach would be to look for items based on athlete names. I have a script for such a task as well, and it can handle minor differences in spelling of names.

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Unfortunately not. It will be a manual process for me to go through the book.

Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Just a heads up that I'll be on holiday for the next few days; not sure how much internet access there will be. I'm making good progress going through the list that your last query produces (have completed entries up to 1949 birth). I'm amending entries for the following:

  • Participation in Olympic events (where those are defined)
  • "East German" in description
  • Add surname where it's missing
  • Add maiden or married names where missing

I've already finished adding 'sports' where that field was empty.

To assist with the above, it would be good if you could amend the above query by 'description' (English) and surname; that way it's much easier to check whether the former contains "East" (and even "German" is often missing) as well as whether there's a surname defined. Where a surname hasn't been set up I create it.

Question - why does the query not pick up Q461155?

Thanks for your ongoing help!

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)
  • Thanks for the update.
  • The SR profile of Klaus Richtzenhain (Q461155) tells he participated for GER in 1956. There was no GDR team at that time. The query filters only those athletes that have won a medal at one of these games.
  • updated query with English descriptions and surname labels
Schwede66 (talkcontribs)

Well, that explains it. That's missing the six games (summer and winter; 3 each) that the United Team of Germany competed in, made up of a mixture of East and West Germans (1956, 1960, 1964).

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Okay I started my script again and provide yet another version of the query. Includes medallists for GER in 1956, 1960, or 1964 (Summer and Winter each) that have a GDR citizenship in Wikidata. 729 items, also including Klaus Richtzenhain (Q461155) now.

Reply to "Das große Lexikon der DDR-Sportler"
Steak (talkcontribs)

Hi, du hattest mal vor längerer Zeit die Titel von der FIDE-Datenbank gezogen und mit den Statements hier verglichen (damalige Ergebnisse sind hier ). Könntest du das bitte nochmal machen?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Hallo, bin gerade nicht mehr ganz sicher, ob ich das Skript von damals wiederfinde. Für welche Items soll da nochmal nachgeschaut werden?

Steak (talkcontribs)

Für alle Items, die eine Fide-ID haben.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ok, dann ist da ein bisschen was zu tun. Ich habe mittlerweile wohl das richtige Skript wiedergefunden, und mache das bei Gelegenheit an. Weil das Skript alle Seiten einmal abrufen muss, dauert das ein bisschen…

Steak (talkcontribs)

Noch eine Bitte, wenn du sowieso alle Seiten crawlen musst: Kannst du mit dem Eintrag im Feld "Federation" systematisch die Property:P1532 ergänzen?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Ich würde sowieso erstmal eine lokale Kopie speichern, und darauf dann die Auswertung durchführen. Da kann man dann auch spontan noch nach anderen Dingen schauen.

Reply to "Schach-Titel die Zweite"
Dispenser (talkcontribs)
MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

All three items are empty except an English label+description. No chance to know whether there’s an article waiting to be connected somewhere.

I’ve restored all of them, but please make sure you’re adding sufficient information to newly created items in future.

Dispenser (talkcontribs)
Pasleim (talkcontribs)

no I don't use this list and I was not aware of the discussion here.

But you need urgently add some statements, in the current state these items do not meet our notability criteria.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Some more remarks:

  • such items appear on several admin worklists, and we really have lots of similar cases; I’d claim we talk about some hundred new items each day
  • it is totally usual that admins delete them without further notice; this does not violate any policy
  • there are in fact barely any complaints about deletions of such items, as in almost all cases the items are abandoned by their creators anyway
  • in case of deletions which shouldn’t have been done, items are typically restored on informal request (as in this case)

Regards!

Reply to "Deleted Games"