Property talk:P735

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Documentation

given name
first name or another given name of this person; values used with the property shouldn't link disambiguations nor family names
DescriptionThe given name or the first name of a person. See WikiProject Names for more information. This only applies to persons who have a first name. This provides a machine readable version of the label for person items. See also: family name (P734).
Representsgiven name (Q202444)
Data typeItem
Domain
According to this template: persons
According to statements in the property:
person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), legendary figure (Q13002315) and character that may be fictional (Q21070598)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed valuesgiven name (Q202444) (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Usage notesvalues used with the property shouldn't link disambiguations nor family names
ExampleGeorge Washington (Q23)George (Q15921732)
Sylvain Chavanel (Q333329)Sylvain (Q16281827)
Kim Yo-Han (Q12588157)Yo-han (Q16256879)
Kim Basinger (Q131380)Kim (Q637123)
Bill Clinton (Q1124)Bill (Q18245781) and William (Q12344159)
Tracking: usageno label (Q29454937)
See alsofamily name (P734), Roman praenomen (P2358), name (P2561), given name version for other gender (P1560)
Lists
Proposal discussionProperty proposal/Archive/11#P735
Current uses2,903,229
[create] Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia category (Q4167836), family name (Q101352), male given name (Q12308941), female given name (Q11879590), unisex given name (Q3409032), given name (Q202444), organization (Q43229), periodical literature (Q1002697), foundation (Q157031), twins (Q14756018), identical twins (Q2301325), double act (Q1141470), sibling (Q31184), trio (Q281643), sibling group (Q16979650), biography (Q36279), version, edition, or translation (Q3331189), film (Q11424), book (Q571), encyclopedic article (Q17329259): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P31, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): sibling duo (Q14073567), married couple (Q3046146), group of humans (Q16334295), duo (Q10648343): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Mark Phillips (Q6769252), Donald Keith (Q5294631), Jack McKinney (Q6114022), Lewis Padgett (Q3142173), Richard Henry (Q7326386), Marshall Jevons (Q1902768), Annie Sanders (Q4769424), Satoshi Nakamoto (Q13382352), Anna Kalman (Q561105), Paul Schott (Q2062303), Michaël Borgia (Q3308652), Hedwig Maria Stuber (Q21051371)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “given name version for other gender (P1560): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P1560, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “family name identical to this given name (P1533): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P1533, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “main subject (P921): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P921, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Type “person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), legendary figure (Q13002315), character that may be fictional (Q21070598): element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), legendary figure (Q13002315), character that may be fictional (Q21070598)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Alex (Q24628), Oscar (Q1185550), Petra (Q1282136), Marjan (Q1899752), no label (Q2247724), Jet of Iada (Q6188949), Buurtpoes Bledder (Q14916910), Winston (Q42564276), Fritz the Elephant (Q25388283), Zelda (Q8068703)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Type Q215627, Q95074, Q13002315, Q21070598, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Value type “given name (Q202444): This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value given name (Q202444) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Value type Q202444, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Qualifiers “named after (P138), instance of (P31), language of work or name (P407), start time (P580), end time (P582), applies to part (P518), point in time (P585), series ordinal (P1545), nickname (P1449), object has role (P3831), subject has role (P2868): this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Allowed qualifiers, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Scope is: the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#scope, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “country (P17): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P17, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “located in the administrative territorial entity (P131): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P131, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “coordinate location (P625): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P625, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): biographical article (Q19389637): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P31, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Conflicts with “GeoNames ID (P1566): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Conflicts with P1566, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Property “native label (P1705)” declared by target items of “given name (P735): If [item A] has this property with value [item B], [item B] is required to have property “native label (P1705)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P735#Target required claim P1705, SPARQL, SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)
Value n/a (Q929804) will be automatically replaced to value invalid ID (Q novalue).
Testing: TODO list

Statistics[edit]

First Names Dictionary

date humans [1] first name [2] % [3] [4] family names [5] % [6] Have both[7]
2014-09-06 2,492,359 129,304 5.1 % 24,830 0.9 %
2014-09-27 2,525,530 563,129 22.3 % 16,545 7,103 30,902 1.2 % 38,821
2014-11-01 2,582,649 1,054,292 40.8 % 17,450 7,130 76,914 2.9 % 39,204
2014-11-29 2,630,939 1,385,520 52.7 % 17,559 7,068 96,326 3.7 % 40,090


2014-12-31 2,654,912 1,583,475 59.6 % 20,296 7,008 97,696 3.7 % 40,056
2015-01-31 2,692,070 1,611,459 59.9 % 20,613 6,972 99,745 3.7 % 40,088
2015-02-28 [8] 2,702,106 1,632,296 60.4 % 17,768 3,682 100,555 3.7 % 40,080
2015-03-31 2,762,253 1,735,275 62.8 % 18,522 3,743 105,934 3.8 % 40,245
2015-05-01 2,773,802 1,920,034 69.2 % 19,547 4,111 142,423 5.1 % 40,424
2015-05-31 2,797,258 2,000,204 71.5 % 23,185 3,679 145,961 5.2 % 40,382
2015-06-30 2,829,073 2,026,845 71.6 % 23,742 3,548 153,344 5.4 % 40,559
2015-08-02 2,846,056 2,047,949 72.0 % 23,935 3,416 163,252 5.7 % 40,678
2015-09-01 2,860,916 2,060,315 72.0 % 24,186 3,355 168,659 5.9 % 40,786
2015-10-01 2,900,428 2,087,605 72.0 % 24,659 3,324 169,926 5.9 % 43,966
2015-11-01 2,937,180 2,120,839 72.2 % 25,428 129 171,896 5.9 % 44,975
2015-12-01 3,008,267 2,186,636 72.7 % 27,197 118 176,052 5.9 % 44,785
2016-01-06 3,039,909 2,197,616 72.3 % 28,035 107 179,666 5.9 % 44,840
2016-02-28 3,082,264 2,238,719 72.6%
2017-09-28 3,615,773 2,390,162 66.1% 36,441 346 379,911 10.5% 221,779
2018-06-15 4 318 201 2 615 219 60.6% 40 368 450 641 492 14.9% 245 973 541 549
  1. Humans: items with P31:Q5
  2. Humans with given name (P735) or P2358
  3. Total number of given names (used or not)
  4. mixed given name items. Ideally = 0. See also Constraint_violations/P735 and P734
  5. Humans with surnames (P734)
  6. Total number of surnames
  7. Human with name and surname
  8. data incomplete

Surnames:

without: 3,676,709 (85.1%)with: 641,492 (14.9%)Circle frame white.svg
  •   without: 3,676,709 (85.1%)
  •   with: 641,492 (14.9%)

Personal names:

with: 2,615,219 (60.6%)without: 1,702,982 (39.4%)Circle frame white.svg
  •   with: 2,615,219 (60.6%)
  •   without: 1,702,982 (39.4%)
todo: 3,776,652 (87.5%)both: 541,549 (12.5%)Circle frame white.svg
  •   todo: 3,776,652 (87.5%)
  •   both: 541,549 (12.5%)



Navigation[edit]

Discussion[edit]

two given names[edit]

Thanks for creating this. Question: How to handle John F. Kennedy (Q9696)? Littledogboy (talk) 22:46, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Mess[edit]

Having the datatype as Item creates a lot of mess when it comes to translation versus transliteration. For example, English first name Joseph transliterated as Джозеф in Ukrainian, but Joseph gives just a Ukrainian variant for it which is Йосип. So Joseph Stalin is Йосип (because of the original Russian Иосиф), but Joseph Priestley is Джозеф. So currently I don't see a way to use this property in any consistent way in Wikipedia templates. --DixonD (talk) 16:53, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

That's not such a big surprise, considering that the property was added with neither consensus nor majority vote, and disregarding serious objections against its datatype. Just don't use it and let it rot out...--Shlomo (talk) 18:20, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Or you could just use several values of P735 for an item, with "prefered value" for the name in the person's original language and devalued values for all the others first names generally associated with them… Like every other case where there is several informations? Like Francis of Assisi (Q676555)… --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 05:23, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Francis of Assisi (Q676555) is a good example why the property is useless with item datatype. As for now, it has 8 values, but if you look through connected pages, you can see about 50 other language versions of his name, that could be added. Now what's the point of having links to >50 items about the name, if the person has only one name? And what's the point of having link to item, whith Czech / English / Italian / etc. labels "Franz" if the person is not called "Franz" in any of these languages (and a similar link for every of the other >49 languages)?--Shlomo (talk) 18:52, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Names[edit]

The above project aims to improve and expand the use of this property. --- Jura 03:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Q18336849[edit]

@Jura1: Instead of using item with given name property (Q18336849) do you think it would be possible to use has quality (P1552):given name (Q202444) on classes requiring a given name? --Micru (talk) 08:33, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
The idea is to check if only "P31:Q5" or fictional characters/humans use P735 and not others. Before this could be done with a "Type: person (Q215627)" constraint, but as you changed Q5, this broke this and most related checks.
Don't hesitate to add other constraints above and see what results this gives. Afterwards we can keep the one(s) that work(s) best. --- Jura 11:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Middle names[edit]

How do we handle middle names? They're not on the same level as given (first) names. Ash Crow
Dereckson
Harmonia Amanda
Hsarrazin
Jura
Чаховіч Уладзіслаў
Sascha
Joxemai
Place Clichy
Branthecan
Azertus
ToJack
Jon Harald Søby
PKM
Pmt
Sight Contamination
MaksOttoVonStirlitz
BeatrixBelibaste
ajayi adeniyi
Moebeus
Dcflyer
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Names --AmaryllisGardener talk 22:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Usually we use given name (P735) for all the given names, and the first name as "Prefered value". -Ash Crow (talk) 00:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Ah, makes sense. Thanks! :) (BTW, your edit was marked as a bot edit, mistake?) --AmaryllisGardener talk 00:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Oops. I had the flood flag because I did mass edits with my account. I removed it. -Ash Crow (talk) 01:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Expansion to house, animals and other objects[edit]

As we have named after (P138) to describe the naming of objects, I undid this change, attempting to expand the use of this property for first names to items that are not for about people (mainly items with instance of (P31) = human (Q5)). --- Jura 03:00, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me that you are misinterpreting the difference between the two properties. The basic difference is not about the items they can be applied to, but the items which can be used as target for the properties. This property (P735) links a subject to its name. Items to be linked are to be about that name. Corresponding Wikipedia articles could for example describe the origin or the frequency of the name. On Wikidata:WikiProject Names there is a list of items for given names.
On the other hand, named after (P138) links an item to an "entity or event that inspired the subject's name, or namesake (in at least one language)" (my emphasis). So named after (P138) should not link to name-items. It would be strange to say that a name is its own inspiration. And 'namesake' means: another subject with the same name, not the name itself. In yet other words, the difference is between named after and bearing a name. So it is wrong if you add for example to Dolly (Q171433) that it is 'named after' Dolly (Q1235797) while in fact the sheep was called Dolly and named after Dolly Parton (Q180453).
By the way, the word "subject" in the description op P138 can apply very well to humans. After all, people are often named after other people. And in my opinion it is awfully anthropocentric to talk about 'houses, animals and other objects'. Bever (talk) 04:20, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
And note that the constraint restraint below the changed one does say "Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist" while both restraints have a large overlap (both mention human (Q5)). So the restraints contradict each other. Bever (talk) 04:32, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
This property is only for first names. Animals don't have first names. You'd need to use another property for sheep, etc. --- Jura 05:30, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
What do you mean with "Animals don't have first names"? Whether you like it or not, animals are given name. Sometimes these names would never be used for humans, but when a cat is called Tom (Tom (Q1839152)) or a bull is called Herman (Herman the Bull (Q2241459)), this is exactly the same name as for example Tom Cruise (Q37079) or Herman van Veen (Q503717).
Also it is not quite correct to speak about 'first names', as Hungarians, Chinese and several others have the names the other way around. If somebody has only a given name, this would automatically the first name, I suppose, but I wondered if your statement "This property is only for first names" implies that there should be a last name as well. What about Thomas the Apostle (Q43669) or Herman (Q1428284) (humans with only one name)?
Further it is not consequent that you allow fictional characters but do not allow animals: this already means that you cannot calculate the use of names for real people with counting this property only. Animals are even more real than fictional characters. And what about mixed characters like the main characters of Undercover Kitty (Q1049558) and The Golden Ass (Q1044767), who transform between human and animal during the story? Bever (talk) 19:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
If there other items where it shouldn't be, of course it should be removed as well. --- Jura 23:47, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
What items are you talking about? Animals of fictitious characters? I did not mention "items where it shouldn't be", the examples I gave where it could be (a few Hermans and Toms) do not have this property at present, except for the apostle.
In fact you did not respond at all to what I said. Why do you want to exclude animals while including fictitious and mythical characters? Bever (talk) 00:38, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

I see there was debate about this issue in 2015, and I'm not really understanding the outcome.... Nevertheless I've just made this edit [1] which gives a "Given name" to an individual known Turkey (animal). This throws a constraint violation, as Zelda (Q8068703), the turkey, isn't a person. We have several thousand individually known animals on Wikidata, and a good portion of them have non-unique given names. Currently only a handful have a "given name" statement but it seems obvious to me at least that this property should be allowed to apply to them too. Wittylama (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Qualifiers constraints[edit]

I don't understand very well why we are taking as valid instance of (P31), language of work or name (P407), point in time (P585), series ordinal (P1545), nickname (P1449). From my point of view:

I think about removing them from the constraints, but first I would like to know what other people think about it. Specifically Jura1, who added (if I checked it correctly) all of them in the last months. -- Agabi10 (talk) 03:14, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Possible: I added P1449 (and others) just to avoid that they fail the constraint reports ;) I might have cleaned-up a few others that were also in use.
I think P407 is being used for items like Q676555#P735 with many language variations included, P1545 to indicate the order of given names (first name, second name, etc.)
Personally, I used P31 for things like Q460300#P735.
Maybe you can find a sample for P585 where someone found it useful. BTW P585 indicates what was correct at given point in time, not necessarily only at a specific moment. --- Jura 06:12, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
  • @Jura1: OK, fair enough. I didn't think on the possibility of a person whose name has variations in different languages. I was only thinking about people having one name (or combination of names) which is the same in all the languages and where language of work or name (P407) specifies the name of origin, no the language in which the elements given name is that one. Using series ordinal (P1545) for specifying the order of the names of a person also makes sense, because even if we can know having the names separately and know which is the order it is less obvious for a machine.
For the use you are using as an example of instance of (P31) personally I don't like it... I think it should be a better way to specify that kind of things. From my point of view instance of is a property that should only be used as a property, not as a qualifier. Also it looks weird having "novalue" with a qualifier specifying its value. Shouldn't be more logical using it as instance of Q460300 instead?
Finally related to the use of point in time (P585) I think that in that property is semantically inferred that something happened in an specific moment, for wider ranges we have start time (P580), end time (P582), earliest date (P1319) or latest date (P1326), depending of the meaning we want to give to the specific date. -- Agabi10 (talk) 12:25, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Q19968968 isn't a given name. It's just an explanation why there is no given name.
point in time (P585): Not really, have a look at the English label ("time and date .. a statement was true"). If it wasn't this qualifier, we would need another qualifier for the same. --- Jura 16:53, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Ranks[edit]

Some items used the "depreciated" rank for first names that aren't generally used. → Help:Ranking#Deprecated rank

Personally, I think the given name that is generally used can have preferred rank, but the others should have normal rank.

I changed a few items to this. --- Jura 15:35, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Jura you forgot to mention the possibility that the person changed their name legally, this is something usual with gender change operations and things like that for example, but probably there are more cases. In this case at least from my point of view the old name should be a deprecated statement because it is not like they are not generally used, they are more like at the moment incorrect statements that were correct in the past. I would put those as deprecated with end time (P582) as qualifiers. -- Agabi10 (talk) 19:27, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I didn't fix any of those, but I'm not sure if statement depreciation would be appropriate. You could use a qualifier to specify end and start dates for names that changed.
A given name could have depreciated rank if it's one that keeps getting misreported ("Paul" for "Peter Jones"). --- Jura 07:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Jura. "Deprecated" to me means "wrong", not "obsolete". If a name was changes, use a end time (P582) qualifier and use "preferred" for the current name. --Srittau (talk) 01:53, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Baptismal name[edit]

What sholud I do if a person has different baptismal names (given right after birth in hospital) and different legal names (used in official documents)? Marciooo (talk) 16:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Generally, I add only the currently used given name in this property, but you could include all (past and present given names).
Ideally, you'd add the full name at birth (including surname) with birth name (P1477) and subsequent ones with name in native language (P1559).
--- Jura 17:08, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Alas, according to the description of name in native language (P1559) you can't use it exclusively for names in the person's native language. For name in other languages acquired later (e.g. in connection with migration, conversion, assimilation...) there is no suitable property now, AFAIK.
birth name (P1477) is not a solution for Marciooo's problem either, since you can't tell, which part of the value (=full name) is the baptismal name.--Shlomo (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
I add it in P735, and I use P31 as a qualifier with Christian name (Q2396897) as value. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 09:34, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Multiple given names: ranks and series ordinal (P1545)[edit]

There was a recent discussion in the project chat that got me thinking about our given names. Until now, I've always thought we gave the first given name a preferred rank and add the other names as "normal" statements. This has some problems though, as some values don't show up in the query service for example. I've recently discovered that the approach with series ordinal (P1545) is way much better, the rank should be normal for all of them though. Should we set this as the new approach and how many items should be fixed? Ash Crow
Dereckson
Harmonia Amanda
Hsarrazin
Jura
Чаховіч Уладзіслаў
Sascha
Joxemai
Place Clichy
Branthecan
Azertus
ToJack
Jon Harald Søby
PKM
Pmt
Sight Contamination
MaksOttoVonStirlitz
BeatrixBelibaste
ajayi adeniyi
Moebeus
Dcflyer
Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Names

Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 14:04, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I use both methods: I list all the given names with the qualifier series ordinal (P1545), and I mark the actual used given name with preferred rank when it's not the first one (in France, until recent times, the given name in use daily was the last and not the first, etc. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 14:09, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
In the Netherlands, a lot of people also have a "roepnaam" what seems close to "given name in use daily". Someone called Hendrik (Q1158181) could have Henk (Q1605227) as "roepnaam" for example. I'm still wondering how we can include information like that. I mostly add the birth name (P1477) and short name (P1813), but how can I indicate that Henk (Q1605227) is the "roepnaam" of someone? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 14:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Q21165900: David Theodore Nelson Williamson[edit]

The first name is David, but in real life he was called Theo (see, for example, his FRS bio article, Q47481409). His publications were always signed D. T. N. Williamson; David appears only in a few formal occasions. Which name should be in P735? Retired electrician (talk) 11:27, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

  • All four. Maybe the English label should be "Theo Williamson" as well, but oddly the enwiki article title isn't using that either.
    --- Jura 11:31, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
    • For the "Theo" part, see my comments above. Think it's time to suggest a property for that. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 15:37, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Pseudonyms[edit]

Does this property apply for pen names, pseudonyms, or other aliases? For Mark Twain (Q7245), his given name is Samuel (Q629347), and "Mark" is not a given name. The pen name "Mark Twain" is a nautical phrase, not a given name and surname. Similarly George Eliot (Q131333) was a woman, and her given name is not George. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:07, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

There is already a related discussion going on at Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions#Q17018059. no label (Q17018059) is the nickname of some person. But in my opinion, nicknames should not be described by given name (P735) but by nickname (P1449). Similar with pseudonyms, we should use pseudonym (P742) instead of given name (P735). --Pasleim (talk) 22:11, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

allowed qualifiers constraint[edit]

I get the message "alternate names is not a valid qualifier for given name". I wonder why. Medieval names were often in variations. In this case the names Machteld, Mechteld, Mechtild and Mechtildis (which are variations themselves of the name Mathilda/Matilda/Mathilde/Matilde) are all used for the same person. See Matilda of Guelders (Q2031173). --HRvO (talk) 20:44, 24 July 2018 (UTC)