Property talk:P184

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Documentation

doctoral advisor
person who supervised the doctorate or PhD thesis of the subject
DescriptionPerson who supervised the doctorate thesis of the subject. Inverse of doctoral student (P185).
Representsdoctoral advisor (Q363802)
Data typeItem
Template parameter|doctoral_advisor= in en:Template:Infobox scientist
Domain
According to this template: persons
According to statements in the property:
human (Q5) and fictional human (Q15632617)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed valueshuman (Q5) (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
ExampleGottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (Q9047)Christiaan Huygens (Q39599)
Ernest Rutherford (Q9123)J. J. Thomson (Q47285)
Alan Turing (Q7251)Alonzo Church (Q92741)
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P184 (Q23909082)
See alsostudent of (P1066), reviewed by (P4032)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses19,923
Search for values
[create] Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here
Type “human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617): element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P184#type Q5, Q15632617
Value type “human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617): This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P184#Value type Q5, Q15632617, hourly updated report
Inverse property of “doctoral student (P185):
if [item A] has this property (doctoral advisor (P184)) linked to [item B],
then [item B] should also have property “doctoral student (P185)” linked to [item A]. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P184#Inverse
Contemporaries:
if [item A] has this property (doctoral advisor (P184)) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P184#Contemporary, hourly updated report
Contemporaries:
if [item A] has this property (P184) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history.
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P184#Contemporary
Pictogram voting comment.svg Doctoral advisor didn't live during the same time as his/her doctoral student
death date of person A is before birth date of person B (Help)
Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item { { SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P184 ?item2; p:P569/psv:P569 ?birth1_node . ?birth1_node wikibase:timeValue ?birth1; wikibase:timePrecision "11"^^xsd:integer . ?item2 p:P570/psv:P570 ?death2_node . ?death2_node wikibase:timeValue ?death2; wikibase:timePrecision "11"^^xsd:integer . FILTER (?birth1 > ?death2) } } UNION { SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P184 ?item2; p:P570/psv:P570 ?death1_node . ?death1_node wikibase:timeValue ?death1; wikibase:timePrecision "11"^^xsd:integer . ?item2 p:P569/psv:P569 ?birth2_node . ?birth2_node wikibase:timeValue ?birth2; wikibase:timePrecision "11"^^xsd:integer . FILTER (?birth2 > ?death1) } } }
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P184#Doctoral advisor didn't live during the same time as his/her doctoral student

Second advisor[edit]

Which qualifier do we use to indicate who is the first/second advisor? --Jobu0101 (talk) 22:28, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@Zolo, Danrok: --Jobu0101 (talk) 06:50, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
@Jobu0101: P794 (P794) I guess. --Zolo (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
@Zolo: Like I just did it here? --Jobu0101 (talk) 14:30, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
@Jobu0101: actually, by "first" and "second" advisor do you mean that he had one main advisor and a secondary one, or that he changed advisor. To indicate that that the advisor changed, it may be better to use follows (P155) / followed by (P156). If that means main vs secondary advisor, I think it should be as you did, but we a more explicit label or description on first doctoral advisor (Q26236695). -Zolo (talk) 14:36, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
@Zolo: My source is [1]. I'm not sure if the source distinguishes the two cases you listed. Once we agree on how we do it it's clear that first doctoral advisor (Q26236695) and second doctoral advisor (Q26236691) have to be expanded. --Jobu0101 (talk) 14:42, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Nécessité d'une thèse ?[edit]

@Zolo: Hello, ton avis stp. La soutenance effective d'une thèse est-elle une condition nécessaire de la propriété ? Autrement dit s'agit-il du directeur d'une thèse effectivement soutenue ou du directeur d'un travail doctoral en vue d'une thèse, y compris s'il est notoire que ce travail n'a pas débouché sur la thèse entreprise sous la direction de cette personne ? Cordialement, Racconish (talk) 12:57, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Je dirais que: Dès que le projet est commencé, vous pouvez utiliser le P184. Il n'a pas à être soumis. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 17:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Quid s'il est résilié (cancelled) ? Cheers, Racconish (talk) 17:37, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Concerned about the application.[edit]

I am a bit concerned about the application of this property. It seems that people are using academictree.org as a source, see, e.g., [2] [3]. But I believe that academic tree has a much broader definition of academic connection than "doctoral advisor". Albert A. Michelson seems to have been educated in USA, while his P184's is listed as being the doctoral student of Helmholtz and a French physisist called Alfred Cornu. I find it hard to believe that he had doctoral advisors in two countries, while it might very well be that he worked as some kind of postdoc with Helmholtz and Cornu. But the latter doesn't make them doctoral advisors. I have the suspicious that such problematic annotation might be widespread with P184. Perhaps student of (P1066) better reflect academictree.org, neurotree.org and similar listings? — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 17:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Isn't student of (P1066) more appropriate for arts ? Racconish (talk) 18:16, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I do not see that student of (P1066) should be restricted to the arts. The current examples lists Albert Einstein (Q937) as student of (P1066) Heinrich Friedrich Weber (Q116635). — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 21:21, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

There are numerous examples, e.g., Manuel Bryennios (Q12880655) born 1275. Did they really have the concept of doctoral thesis at that point? @Arachn0:. There is an assymmetry as student (P802) is used in the other direction. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 21:26, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

people with more than one thesis in different university[edit]

The property doctoral thesis (P1026) is defined as "must be a qualifier" [of a educated at (P69)]. It seems reasonable, because people do a thesis (Q1266946) to get a academic degree (P512) in a certain educated at (P69). However, the property doctoral advisor (P184) (this where we are) is defined as "When possible, data should only be stored as statements" and has human (Q5) as a domain, so usually it appears as an statements of the "doctored person" item with the name of the "doctoral advisor (Q363802)" as a value. In my opinion, the doctoral advisor (P184) could be a characteristic of the "doctored person" ONLY when he/she has just one thesis (Q1266946). However, in a correct way, it should be a property (characteristic) of one specific thesis together with author (P50), publication date (P577) or URL (P2699) and is done for an specific educated at (P69).

In the present ontology (Q324254), how should write the second thesis of a person, in a different university and with different doctoral advisor (P184)?. Thanks Amadalvarez (talk) 09:29, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Zolo, Danrok: Amadalvarez (talk) 22:26, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Makes sense to me to make doctoral advisor (P184) a qualifier of educated at (P69) rather than human (Q5), in line with thesis (Q1266946). --D Wells (talk) 14:52, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Property on the actual thesis item[edit]

Hi! This property is meant to be person to person. What would then be the right way (if any) to mark the supervisor on a specific thesis item?--Reosarevok (talk) 08:32, 29 November 2018 (UTC)