Property talk:P1810

From Wikidata
Jump to: navigation, search

Documentation

named as
name by which a subject is recorded in a database, or participated in the production of the product
Represents credit name (Q21767573)
Data type String
Domain film (Q11424), short film (Q24862), television film (Q506240) and other (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Example Broncho Billy Anderson (Q946745) → Gilbert M. 'Broncho Billy' Anderson
See also stated as (P1932)
Lists
Proposal discussion Property proposal/Archive/30#P1810
Current uses 256,302
[create] Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here
Qualifier: this property can only be used as a qualifier.
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1810#Qualifier, SPARQL
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Discussion[edit]

Usable on database identifiers ?[edit]

It's clear that this property is already being used more widely than just for film and TV credits -- eg WikiProject books recommends using this with author (P50), where the value of P50 would be the item for the author, with P1810 used to record the pseudonym.

I would like to use it with external identifiers (eg for painters), to record the headline form of the name used in the database -- each database often has its own preferred form of an artist's name, particularly if all they have their own conventions for how they like to distinguish between different artists with similar names.

As an example, see eg the page for Jan Vermeer van Haarlem the Elder (Q3159680):

  • "Jan Vermeer van Haarlem (I)" for the Dutch RKD (and also at Wiki Commons);
  • "Vermeer van Haarlem, Jan, II" for the American Getty museum's ULAN service (who count his father as Jan I);
  • "Meer, Johann van der" for the German GND

-- it's quite useful to be able to see the different preferences, which could otherwise be quite confusing.

Is there any objection to using this qualifier in this way? (It seems that the label and description texts might have to be changed in some languages, if they are to match the current English "named as", rather than the original "credited as").

Thanks, Jheald (talk) 19:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Jheald: I agree its excellent to explain how a person is named in the sources. Right now if you have gadget activated a gadget that checks Help:Property_constraints_portal and then we need to change the constraints... - Salgo60 (talk) 19:12, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
@Salgo60: Right now the only live constraint seems to be that P1810 can only be used as a qualifier, which is entirely appropriate. Looking at the properties that it's most used on, using the query at the top-right of the information box above, most now are not related to the film industry: tinyurl.com/yd32ln72. The information above could be updated, though. Jheald (talk) 19:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
@Jheald: See video how I get problem with Q2938979#P119 and Q2938979/P119/ref/P1810 - Salgo60 (talk) 20:17, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
@Salgo60: Thanks for the video, it's very helpful to see exactly the case you're trying to deal with.
Normally named as (P1810) would be used as a qualifier for the main statement, not to give extra information about the reference. So if on the gravestone your person was named "X Y Z", then one could use P1810 on the place of interment (P119) statement in the main section for qualifiers, not as part of the section for references.
But I think your case may indeed be different from that, if you want to record how somebody was named e.g. in a printed index to the graves -- which might or might not be the same as the name carved on the stone.
If that is indeed the reason you are wanting to put the named as (P1810) information in the references section, rather than in the section directly above it for qualifiers on the main statement, then I don't know what is the best way forward. It might be worth asking at Project Chat, where there are more people who are more experienced than me as to what information is possible in the references section, and how to encode it. Jheald (talk) 23:50, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
@Jheald: One problem I try to address is that the semantic web is a "loosely" coupled system and I cant trust the system with the grave information that they have a persistent identifier. I have spoken to the programmer and he say it is almost ever.... but when working with the system I see its not. When storing
I feel when they change the database it's easier for us to have a script that repair Wikidata's broken link as the name in the register and the meta data will not change also the name in the old registers are a good source for how they spelled the name. Today is 1600 graves mapped to Wikidata so you need to have a strategy see graves.wiki - Salgo60 (talk) 00:09, 24 November 2017 (UTC)