Property talk:P570

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Documentation

date of death
date on which the subject died
DescriptionDeath date of a living thing, see also date of birth (P569).
Representsdate of death (Q18748141)
Data typePoint in time
Domain
According to this template: person (Q215627), organism (Q7239)
According to statements in the property:
human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), animal (Q729) and person (Q215627)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed valuesPast dates, obviously posterior to the date of birth (P569) of the same item (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
ExampleEdgar Leopold Layard (Q553155)
Ramesses I (Q1526)
Isaac Newton (Q935)
Format and edit filter validationAbuse filter #55
Tracking: differencesCategory:P570 different in Wikipedia (Q23037969)
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P570 (Q20117080)
Tracking: local yes, WD noCategory:Property P570 missing at Wikidata, but information available in Wikipedia (Q20113586), Category:Articles with Template:Bio and date of death not in Wikidata, but available on Wikipedia (Q28858520)
See alsodate of disappearance (P746), floruit (P1317), place of death (P20), cause of death (P509), manner of death (P1196), date of birth (P569), date of burial or cremation (P4602)
Lists
Proposal discussionProperty proposal/Archive/8#P570
Current uses1,579,590
[create] Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here
Difference with “date of birth (P569)” within range [0, 150]: the difference with property “date of birth (P569)” should be in the range from “0” to “150”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Zaro Aga (Q148028), Thomas Parr (Q657399), Shirali Muslimov (Q2349607), Mahmud Eyvazov (Q4529980)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Diff within range
Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Single value, SPARQL
Type “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), animal (Q729), person (Q215627): element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), animal (Q729), person (Q215627)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Example biography (Q29962164), Example biography 2 (Q30049473)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Type Q5, Q95074, Q729, Q215627, SPARQL
Qualifiers “determination method (P459), statement is subject of (P805), earliest date (P1319), latest date (P1326), sourcing circumstances (P1480), reason for deprecation (P2241), instance of (P31), stated age at event (P3629), refine date (P4241): this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia permanent duplicate item (Q21286738), Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410), Wikimedia list article (Q13406463): this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL
Range from “-3200000-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”: values should be in the range from “-3200000-00-00T00:00:00Z” to “now”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: T'Kuvma (Q48078634), Susan Calvin (Q1073739), Hoban Washburne (Q16499545), Lexa (Q23023325), Great Harlock (Q3115952), Snake Plissken (Q3487121), John Connor (Q376577), Philippa Georgiou (Q43740811), Hugh Culber (Q48032489), James T. Kirk (Q16311), Martia (Q53858092)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P570#Range
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Wrong calendar
People died before 1582 who's death date is registered using Proleptic Gregorian calendar (Q1985727) instead of Proleptic Julian calendar (Q1985786). (Help)
Violations query: SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item p:P570/psv:P570 ?datevalue . ?datevalue wikibase:timeValue ?date . FILTER(?date < "+1582-10-15T00:00:00Z"^^xsd:dateTime) ?datevalue wikibase:timePrecision ?dateprecision . FILTER(?dateprecision > 9) ?datevalue wikibase:timeCalendarModel wd:Q1985727 . } LIMIT 1000
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P570#Wrong calendar
Pictogram voting comment.svg Probably died
People born before the year 1900, but no date of death (P570) (Help)
Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item p:P569 ?birthclaim . MINUS { ?item p:P570 [] } ?birthclaim ps:P569 ?birth . FILTER(?birth < "+1900-00-15T00:00:00Z"^^xsd:dateTime) . } LIMIT 1000
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P570#Probably died
Pictogram voting comment.svg Items with P570 = "no value" (P31=Q5)
Most people are not immortal (Help)
Violations query: SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item p:P20/a wdno:P570 ; wdt:P570 wd:Q5 } LIMIT 100
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P570#Items with P570 = "no value" (P31=Q5)


This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Keeping up to date[edit]

As one of the major uses of Wikidata is to keep Wikipedias up to to date, I thought it could be worth trying to organize things a bit. I found http://www.legacy.com/memorial-sites/2014/ that allows to keep watch of the recently dead. Could also do something like a "dead this week list that Wikipedias could consult ? --Zolo (talk) 09:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Died "after 1110"[edit]

According to William Devereux, he died "after 1110". Is there a way to add it with date of death (P570) at William Devereux (Q8007795)? --- Jura 12:37, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

He died before 1210 for sure. May be to point date of death (P570) = 1160±50? --Infovarius (talk) 10:11, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
In the meantime, there is the property "floruit": I added that.
The article also mentions the he was likely dead a some point "During the time of Abbot William (1113 to 1130)". I tried to include this with the two other new properties: P1319 and P1326 --- Jura 16:52, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Living people and no value[edit]

All people die at some point in time. Did we already had a discussion somewhere about adding no value to living people? We could be a bit more philosophical and add "unknown value" (everyone dies, we just don't know when), but that would make it harder to distinguish with people we do know they died, just not sure when. Multichill (talk) 19:52, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

strong Symbol support vote.svg Support--Oursana (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
"unknown value" seems indeed confusinhg, but we seem to need a way to say "this person is not dead this is why we do not provide a death date (equivalent to Category:Living people (Q5312304) for Wikipedia).
Even though it is conceptually shaky, I guess "no vaue" is the most practical solution. We could have a common sense guideline saying: "if someone is not dead (and has no definite, sourceable death forecasts), add "date of death: no value", do not add other properties like place of death, etc.". --Zolo (talk) 07:39, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose for living people this field shall stay untouched. It would be filled someday anyway. So far we have no difference in wikipedia infoboxes in "no value at all" and "empty value", and filling this field basing on categories is very very bad idea. Thus i see no reason to confuse data clients. -- Vlsergey (talk) 08:01, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
I was not suggesting to add it based on categories (though I do not see major issues doing that as a first step). My point was that these "not dead people" categories exist (I think partly articles about living people are more sensitive, and partly because it is a useful marker for maintenance), and if we want to have the same information on Wikidata, the simplest solution seems to go through "unknown values". Well admittedly, we can probably also do without adding anything and find other ways to check for missing death dates. --Zolo (talk) 14:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
The reason I brought this up here is because I talked with Daniel about this last weekend. I just want to see what according to you guys, the pro's and con's are. The mass adding would maybe be a next step, but let's just leave that part for later. Please don't make this a sliding scale argument. Introducing something like this only makes sense when we're ready for it and when it doesn't mean we'll create a huge backlog because the data isn't available.
The pro is that it's easier to track completeness. Every human should just have the property. Easy to do reports and fix things.
The con is maybe the extra work and that downstream (Wikipedia) will get confused.
Multichill (talk) 12:25, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Albeit a little bit late, I am adding my comment as I could not work out if any conclusion was reached above and I have a vested interest in utilising birth and death dates. We should be working on the assumption that the person is alive unless we know otherwise. i.e. We do not add any death related properties until that person is > 125 years old or that we know for fact that they died. Only then we can use the "date of death = unknown" option.
If a date of death property is added to everyone "in anticipation", then we cannot distinguish those who are known to have died but we are just missing a date. Periglio (talk) 09:34, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
I think it´s a good idea to use "no value" for gods and/or fictional persons who don´t die (or can´t die). There will for sure be no value ever. For persons that are definitely not alive any more but the date of death is unknown it is good to use "unknown value" (e.g. birth date is before 1900 or has published works before 1920). Unknown value implies there is a value we don´t know today. There might be a yet unidentified source out there, that can provide the value some day. For living persons we should ommit the property at all.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 15:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
For living people, there is also floruit (P1317). It can include a date and a reference. --- Jura 20:05, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

@Periglio, Multichill, Giftzwerg 88: et al. Sorry to re-open this discussion two years after, but I found several item older than a century without date of death (P570). As I understand, the summary is:

If it is correct, we should decide what to do with the more than 10000 people born before 1880 and without date of death (P570). Does it make sense to run a bot to fill it ?. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 20:21, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

@Amadalvarez: I try not to use "unknown", but to use a date with a high uncertainty. I'd rather not have a bot mass adding unknown. People can work on subsets like Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Dead painters to reduce the backlog. Multichill (talk) 16:56, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure if much is gained by adding "unknown" to people that are obviously dead. It would be better to attempt to find actual dates and only when these are not available to insert a century or decade, plus "floruit". What would help is to focus on people aged 95 to 125 and attempt to determine when they were last known to be alive (or dead).
    --- Jura 17:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
@Multichill, Jura1: In cawiki we determine "category: alive person" in function of P570. So, we have a lot of false positive. Personally, I agree with both of you: fill date of death with century because is a correct but imprecise information, but not a false info. My summary just tried to resumme the last entries of the discussion, but I'll follow your opinions. Thanks a lot. --Amadalvarez (talk) 17:53, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
@Amadalvarez: You should update the template to also check the date of birth. If you update your local Module:Wikidata from en:Module:Wikidata you can do {{#invoke:Wikidata|getDateValue|P569|FETCH_WIKIDATA|y}} to get the year of birth. Multichill (talk) 18:50, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
@Jura1: Of course our wikidata module handle P569, even calculate the age (P570-P569) taking care of diferents precissions between both properties. The question is not "What to do with the template to solve the problem". The question is: people without P570 are "pressumibly alive". Neither floruit (P1317) nor date of disappearance (P746) certify that person has died, except that some information is put in P570, either an "unknown" or a date with a lower precision date like century, either accompanied by sourcing circumstances (P1480) + presumably (Q18122778), second quarter (Q40719649), etc. second half (Q40719707) or earliest date (P1319) + flourit or reasonable date, for instance.. I started to fix the empty P570 with this kind of solutions after tried to find the real year. Until now, I found near 10% of real date inside the article or in its references for people of 19th century. Obviously, the people with date of birth expressed in centuries or milennium, I'll consider that have the same value for death's date. Thanks again. Amadalvarez (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I agree with Jura in that nothing is gained by a bot. IMHO, unknown says "someone has done the research but came up with nothing" and left blank indicates someone needs to look it up. Anyone using the data would have the flexibility to handle these two scenarios as they require. Periglio (talk) 19:25, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
    +1. Pictogram voting question.svg Question aside: How do other databases handle this? --Marsupium (talk) 13:34, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • BTW, Wikidata:Database_reports/birthday_today/to_check has people born before 1917 where it would be good to check if they reached 100 or died. It was started as we kept getting people who disappeared at the end of WWII on Wikidata:Database reports/birthday today.
    --- Jura 07:16, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Dates available at Wikipedia[edit]

At frwiki, I added a maintenance category for P570: fr:Catégorie:P570 absent de Wikidata. Currently just one or two templates feed into that. --- Jura 10:42, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Death during the night ?[edit]

Hello, I came across Jean-Yves Cozan (Q3170127) for who the sources say he is dead during the night between the 15th and 16th June, is there any way to code that in WD ? 20:22, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi, data model have ability to describe this case. But current Wikidata core and editor implementation does not support required model features. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 22:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Declared dead[edit]

At Q3517088#P570, I added as qualifier declared dead (Q21091870). Not sure if the date should be in 1984 or 2004. --- Jura 11:56, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

@Jura1: I don't know, but I think I would personally use sourcing circumstances (P1480) as the property of the qualifier for that case... -- Agabi10 (talk) 18:28, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Not sure about the use of that qualifier. It might make sense on the date in 1984.
The problem is that it's a theoretical date. Here is another one: Q5577585#P570.--- Jura 16:37, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Value for reason for deprecation (P2241)[edit]

person found to be alive (Q21124171) can be used. --- Jura 11:48, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

or: only disappearence confimed (Q37627247)
--- Jura 14:22, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

BCE / BC[edit]

This (and I guess other dates) support the BCE format e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q317947 BCE 285 which differ from en.wikipedia 285 BC. This affects the connectivity between these two. Can it supports the BC format as well? הנדב הנכון (talk) 07:49, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Examples corrected for time zone[edit]

Since the date of death incorporates the time zone, and the only time zone that can be used is UT, I have corrected the examples to name people who died in the UK. The examples are for people who died before summer time was instituted. Jc3s5h (talk) 09:47, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Added qualifier[edit]

I added the qualifier refine date (P4241) per the example in the appropved property proposal. - PKM (talk)


Death of person/item about person[edit]

Please see Property_talk:P3342#Link_"death_of_(person)"_to_item_about_(person).
--- Jura 12:10, 6 March 2018 (UTC)