Property talk:P1196

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Documentation

manner of death
general circumstances of a person's death; e.g. natural causes, accident, suicide, homicide, etc. Use 'cause of death' (P509) for the specific physiological mechanism, e.g. heart attack, trauma, pneumonia etc.
Descriptionthe item which best describes the circumstances of a person's death
Representsmanner of death (Q2438541)
Data typeItem
Domainperson (Q215627), group of living things (Q16334298), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), organism (Q7239), fictional character (Q95074) or individual animal (Q26401003)
Allowed values
ExampleAdolf Eichmann (Q28085) → capital punishment (Q8454)
Heinrich Himmler (Q43067) → suicide (Q10737)
Paul Walker (Q213864) → accidental death (Q21142718)
Lou Gehrig (Q357444) → natural causes (Q3739104)
John F. Kennedy (Q9696) → homicide (Q149086)
William Craig (Q3426246) → line of duty death (Q1036604)
accidental death (Q21142718)
Bon Scott (Q204162) → death by misadventure (Q25047808)
Rudolf Perešin (Q2003778) → death in battle (Q18663901)
Sourcehttp://www.documentcloud.org/documents/29467-death-cert.html
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P1196 (Q45328507)
See alsocause of death (P509), military casualty classification (P1347), last words (P3909)
Lists
Living people protection classproperty likely to be challenged (Q44597997)
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses
Total126,547
Main statement125,87899.5% of uses
Qualifier6590.5% of uses
Reference10<0.1% of uses
Search for values
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Single value, SPARQL
Value type “manner of death (Q2438541)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value manner of death (Q2438541) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Value type Q2438541, SPARQL
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Type Q215627, Q16334298, Q14514600, Q21070598, Q7239, Q95074, Q26401003, SPARQL
Item “date of death (P570)”: Items with this property should also have “date of death (P570)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Item P570, SPARQL
Item “instance of (P31)”: Items with this property should also have “instance of (P31)”. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Item P31, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Scope, SPARQL
Citation needed: the property must have at least one reference (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#citation needed
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1196#Entity types
Value illness (Q814207) will be automatically replaced to value natural causes (Q3739104).
Testing: TODO list
Value old age (Q191089) will be automatically replaced to value natural causes (Q3739104).
Testing: TODO list
Value execution (Q3966286) will be automatically replaced to value capital punishment (Q8454).
Testing: TODO list
Value attempted murder (Q81672) will be automatically replaced to value homicide (Q149086).
Testing: TODO list
Value assassination (Q3882219) will be automatically replaced to value homicide (Q149086).
Testing: TODO list
Value terrorist attack (Q5710433) will be automatically replaced to value homicide (Q149086).
Testing: TODO list
Value cancer (Q12078) will be automatically replaced to value cancer (Q12078) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value myocardial infarction (Q12152) will be automatically replaced to value myocardial infarction (Q12152) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value HIV/AIDS (Q12199) will be automatically replaced to value HIV/AIDS (Q12199) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value stroke (Q12202) will be automatically replaced to value stroke (Q12202) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value drive-by shooting (Q1259359) will be automatically replaced to value ballistic trauma (Q2140674) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value guillotine (Q128015) will be automatically replaced to value decapitation by guillotine (Q56649284) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value bicycle accident (Q15809226) will be automatically replaced to value bicycle accident (Q15809226) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value train wreck (Q1078765) will be automatically replaced to value train wreck (Q1078765) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value typhus (Q160649) will be automatically replaced to value typhus (Q160649) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value conflagration (Q168983) will be automatically replaced to value conflagration (Q168983) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value hanging (Q175111) will be automatically replaced to value hanging (Q175111) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value decapitation (Q204933) will be automatically replaced to value decapitation (Q204933) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value gas chamber (Q205348) will be automatically replaced to value asphyxia (Q193840) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value ballistic trauma (Q2140674) will be automatically replaced to value ballistic trauma (Q2140674) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value defenestration (Q220277) will be automatically replaced to value defenestration (Q220277) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value airstrike (Q2380335) will be automatically replaced to value airstrike (Q2380335) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value maritime accident (Q2235325) will be automatically replaced to value maritime accident (Q2235325) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value horse fall (Q2967712) will be automatically replaced to value horse fall (Q2967712) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value aircraft crash (Q3002150) will be automatically replaced to value aircraft crash (Q3002150) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value drug overdose (Q3505252) will be automatically replaced to value drug overdose (Q3505252) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value death by burning (Q468455) will be automatically replaced to value death by burning (Q468455) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value drowning (Q506616) will be automatically replaced to value drowning (Q506616) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value aviation accident (Q744913) will be automatically replaced to value aviation accident (Q744913) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value respiratory failure (Q767485) will be automatically replaced to value respiratory failure (Q767485) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value suicide by hanging (Q7883956) will be automatically replaced to value hanging (Q175111) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value traffic collision (Q9687) will be automatically replaced to value traffic collision (Q9687) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value car collision (Q61037771) will be automatically replaced to value car collision (Q61037771) and moved to cause of death (P509) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value martyr (Q6498826) will be automatically replaced to value martyr (Q6498826) and moved to subject has role (P2868) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value killed in action (Q210392) will be automatically replaced to value killed in action (Q210392) and moved to military casualty classification (P1347) property.
Testing: TODO list
Value missing in action (Q2344557) will be automatically replaced to value missing in action (Q2344557) and moved to military casualty classification (P1347) property.
Testing: TODO list
Missing manner of death (P1196), deducable from cause of death (P509)
Entites from whose cause of death the manner is deducable (Help)
Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item { VALUES ?manner { wd:Q10737 wd:Q3739104 wd:Q171558 wd:Q149086 wd:Q15729048 wd:Q8454 } . ?item wdt:P509/wdt:P279+ ?manner . MINUS { ?item wdt:P1196 [] } }
List of this constraint violations: [[Wikidata:Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1196#Missing manner of death (P1196), deducable from cause of death (P509)|Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1196#Missing manner of death (P1196), deducable from cause of death (P509)]]
 
Person properties
Name
Birth
Death
General
Education
Profession
Views
Body
Family
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Specificity[edit]

Wouldn't this property be too limiting when only the values mentioned above are allowed? Is there another way of describing that a person died due to a specific form of accident (e.g. aviation accident, car accident, etc.)? —Wylve (talk) 06:11, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Wylve: just add the missing item to the list of allowed values. For instance, aviation accident (Q744913) is missing but it actually describes a particular circumstance of a person's death, so feel free to add it in the list before using in biographical items with P1196. — TintoMeches, 20:33, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As I have noticed in the property creation discussion, the current allowed values are chosen based on the allowed parameters on a US death certificate, so, I am not really sure if I should add new allowed values without a community discussion. —Wylve (talk) 09:34, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's necessary to start a new discussion for every single improvement. In case someone disagrees, in my mind it would be easier to remove the "controversial item" and then discuss about readding it. — TintoMeches, 21:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wylve, TintoMeches, this property is intended to be quite broad, and is also, importantly, mapped to values available in 'Manner of death' field of the US Standard Death Certificate. Please see the creation discussion at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/20#manner_of_death for the rationale. I have restored the original set of 'allowed values' per that discussion. More specific causes of death should be captured by cause of death (P509). Emw (talk) 18:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Execution?[edit]

What’s the correct value for executions? Neither of natural causes (Q3739104), accident (Q171558), suicide (Q10737), homicide (Q149086), pending investigation (Q15729048) seem to fit. I tried to find an example, but the first three I could think of – Marie Antoinette (Q47365), Louis XVI of France (Q7732), John Wayne Gacy (Q298252) – all are missing a manner of death (P1196) statement (they do have cause of death (P509)). —DSGalaktos (talk) 13:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I really think this should be added, as well as options for people who are killed in action and die of wounds. I've been adding killed in action (Q210392) because I didn't realize there was such a short list of possible values. The rationale that this is following the US Standard Death Certificate doesn't hold, because different ones are issued for people who die in warfare, and in all but a few US states people who are legally executed are marked as such. (Besides, I don't think following US rules should be seen as an end, rather than as a means to standardize.) Innotata (talk) 21:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • capital punishment (Q8454)? Feel free to click edit on the top of the page and add it. --- Jura 04:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Innotata, see military casualty classification (P1347), which is designed for values like "killed in action" and "died of wounds". Manner of death can often be inferred from military casualty classification, or both can be applied when a value for the latter doesn't entail a value for the former. I agree that following US rules should not be an end in itself, and instead a means to standardize. That said, I think we should be extremely hesitant to deviate from this controlled vocabulary, as a separate property can often be used, and adhering to mature standards that are used in the field is very valuable. Emw (talk) 01:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • These standards are used in a limited field, though: one that entirely excludes military personnel, and has a difficult time with executions. Wikidata doesn't have such a limited scope. Innotata (talk) 03:55, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The field is actually extremely broad, and does not exclude military personnel nor have a difficult time with executions -- at least in English. The manner of death values permitted in the US Standard Death Certificate (accident, suicide, homicide, natural causes, undetermined) fairly neatly overlaps with those permitted in the US Department of Defense Medical Mortality Registry (accident, suicide, homicide, illness, hostile, pending investigation, unknown) used to classify deaths of military personnel. Regarding executions, the reporting in that Houston Chronicle article your reference -- "Death certificates of executed inmates may change" -- isn't really reliable. It clearly confuses the distinct concepts "cause of death" and "manner of death". "Legal execution" may well be used in most "Cause of death" fields in US death certificates, but the manner would still be "homicide". The article also doesn't state whether the bill passed and became a law. Even if that state law did pass, it wouldn't be recognized federally, which is the better authority to consult at least as far as United States standards are concerned. Emw (talk) 04:50, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
DSGalaktos, the correct manner of death (P1196) value for executions is homicide (Q149086). All executions are instances of killing of a human by a human, i.e. homicide. The human committing the homicide is the executioner. Emw (talk) 01:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
homicide (Q149086): We would need to create another item for that as this might work for enwiki, but not necessarily in other languages. It's just absurd if you read es:Homicidio. --- Jura 03:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I had this concern too. Besides, classifying executions and deaths in action as homicides would be uncomfortably close to a value judgment on capital punishment and on those killed in action; it could be perceived quite badly. Innotata (talk) 03:55, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For reference, the word "homicide" in modern English is specifically and intentionally neutral in its judgment of intentionality -- it includes intentional (e.g. murder) and unintentional killing. Thanks, Jura, for the note about es:Homicidio. Is there a concept in Spanish that encompasses any type of killing of a human by a human -- legal, illegal, intentional or unintentional? Emw (talk) 04:50, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just Spanish, look through the interwikis. --- Jura 04:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Other than the literal translation, is there a reference for your definition? Even https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/homicide doesn't mention it. --- Jura 11:38, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a reference that would support your POV: https://netforum.avectra.com/temp/ClientImages/NAME/38c0f1d2-11ec-45c7-80ca-ff872d0b22bc.pdf#page=12
However, this doesn't apply in general. A reference for Texas[1]: "The death certificate of a decedent [..] who was lawfully executed shall classify the manner of death as death caused by judicially ordered execution.". Apparently this was changed 10 years ago as the use of the term "homicide" as considered disrespectful. [2]: ".. changes the terminology used on certificates of death in death penalty executions from homicide as the cause of death to death caused by legally authorized execution." --- Jura 09:11, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Death by accident[edit]

There is an inconsistency in the allowed values. Most are specifically related to death (Q4) (death): natural causes (Q3739104), suicide (Q10737), homicide (Q149086) and pending investigation (Q15729048).

But the value accident (Q171558) (accident) is also an option, while in most cases accident (Q171558) does not lead to death (Q4). It would be better to replace that by a more specific value accidental death (Q21142718) for "accidental death". --Paulbe (talk) 18:01, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Going purely off the label, I would prefer “fatal accident” to “accidental death”. The item should be about the cause, not the death. —Galaktos (talk) 18:16, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ok for me. --- Jura 23:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Combinations manner of death/cause of death[edit]

It seems that some entries in P1196 should go into P509 (e.g. execution by firing squad). For a current list, I added a query in the template above. --- Jura 23:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

New value for qualifier determination method (P459): mapping from cause of death (Q21668548)[edit]

mapping from cause of death (Q21668548) can be used to indicate that manner of death was derived from cause of death (P509).

Obviously, some causes of death can't be mapped 1:1 to manner of death: "ballistic trauma" could be anything except natural causes (Q3739104). --- Jura 11:18, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Indirect suicide or homicide by instruction by the victim?[edit]

Here the situation: On Once Upon a Time (Q23673), Killian Jones (Q20001183) instructed Emma Swan-Jones (Q20001135) to stab him with Excalibur to get rid of darkness, and she complied and stabbed him, killing him. Now, what manner of death should I put down for Killian? --AmaryllisGardener talk 03:31, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

accepted values[edit]

I want to reaffirm the fact that this property can be used with only four values: natural causes, suicide, homicide, and accident, and that any others such as "assasination" Q81672 should be moved to "cause of death" Property:P509, as per the descriptions on this page, the discussion of creation at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/20#manner_of_death, and the description of P509, and that using any other value than the four is never "more correct." --Haplology (talk) 14:16, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is "pending investigation" and "capital punishment" as well. I cleaned up a few some time ago ..
--- Jura 14:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

massive replace Murder → Homicide[edit]

copy from User talk:Jura1.

Hello. You now replaced "Murder" → "Homicide". Where is consensus about it? The en:Homicide marked as original research (WP:OR), no verification, also in ru:Гомицид no one source. But many changed personalities is very nationally significant. Also, many infoboxes can have support of field "murder", but have not for this WP:OR. --Vladis13 (talk) 18:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In ru-wikipedia is consensus for undo this edits. --Vladis13 (talk) 20:40, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You need to reach consensus on this project. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Meaning of the "убийство" that includes the casual killing was in Criminal Laws of ex-USSR. In today Russia the law "Непреднамеренное убийство" replaced wording "Causing death by negligence" (law #109 of Criminal Code of Russia), and "убийство" is almost synonym of "murder" (the premeditated killing). But the wording remains as current law in some countries of the ex-USSR, e.g. acting in Laws of Ukraine (law #119). --Vladis13 (talk) 20:10, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Null uses of word "homicide" in Laws and Codexes of Russia. --Vladis13 (talk) 18:45, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

lynching[edit]

This should be allowed. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:29, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]


homicide by ..[edit]

No idea where these would be mentioned on death certificates. As I don't recall these being discussed, I removed them. --
--- Jura 07:18, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Where do you draw this definition from? A homicide by a child is appears as a homicide on death certificates. No need to use "matricide", "patricide", etc.
    --- Jura 10:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jura1: These are all clearly defined, mutually exclusive terms. - Bossanoven (talk) 10:38, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The proposal for this property included a reference for the values to use. Please provide one for your improvement suggestion.
--- Jura 10:44, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Killing of non-human animals[edit]

What is the right manner of death for Fido (Q4483493), stabbed but not homicide? Ghouston (talk) 03:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ghouston: unnatural death (Q855919). - Bossanoven (talk) 13:19, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I saw that one, but with the description "category used by coroners and vital statistics specialists" I wasn't sure if it was appropriate. Ghouston (talk) 03:18, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
manner of death (P1196) on Fido (Q4483493) is also failing a constraint, apparently because a dog is not a person, a "living thing group", or a fictional character. Ghouston (talk) 03:20, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question[edit]

Hello. Why Q149086 is accepted and Q132821 not? The first one is a legal calification also. --Millars (talk) 11:42, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Millars: No, homicide is a manner of death. That's just the way it is. - Bossanoven (talk) 13:22, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then, if it would be interesting for the element to say that it was a magnicide, or a terrorist attacck, or gender violence, or an assasinate, or an homicide (the legal therm), how can we say that? --Millars (talk) 17:01, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Millars: It would really need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, but in most cases it would probably be homicide for manner of death. - Bossanoven (talk) 17:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Bossanoven:, at least in my country (Spain) homicide is not the same as assasinate. In my opinion we should be the most specific as we can. --Millars (talk) 17:59, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Decapitation[edit]

Hello, what does represent "Decapitation " within manners of death? I selected Decapitation but it gave in issue an issue and it was not reflected on the relevent article . --Abu aamir (talk) 13:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC) @Abu aamir: It is a cause of death rather than a manner of death. - Bossanoven (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic creation from cause of death (P509)[edit]

I added single rule for automatic creation of this property. More rules can be added if needed. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 10:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Property scope constraint[edit]

My edit - revision 728642456 - is necessary, and I provided a specific reason why: namely, to allow categories such as Category:People executed by hanging to be restricted to the appropriate category, i.e. humans whose manner of death is execution. @Jura1: provided 2 reasons for reverting the edit: (1) seems to be the exception (2) it's non mandatory anyways. Neither of these is a justification for the reversion. If it is a useful exception, why should the category not have increased scope? If it is non-mandatory, why bother with any scoping at all, and in particular why bother reverting my edit to make the scope smaller? T0mpr1c3 (talk) 15:54, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Non-mandatory means that the constraint can have exceptions. These can be listed explicitly on the property or not.
    Users sufficiently proficient to add the "category contains"-property shouldn't need property constraints to guide themselves. As that property isn't using qualifiers in a standard way, they are likely to know about this.
    If we allow the property as a qualifier on any statement, errors like the ones on Constraint violations/P1196#"Scope" violations become more likely (all but 3 are not categories, there are 60000 uses of the property) and non-proficient users adding them have no way of identifying their error.
I find it odd that one would relax the constraint without cleaning up the clearly incorrect uses. The purpose of constraints is to improve data quality, not to have zero violations.
--- Jura 16:52, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jura1: I don't understand your reasoning, but if you say these exceptions are not problematic then I will just go ahead and generate more of them and not worry about it. T0mpr1c3 (talk) 22:03, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorism[edit]

What manner of death should we assign to victims of terrorism? homicide (Q149086) or death in battle (Q18663901)? Would it be different if the victim was a military officer on duty e.g. Q32164699, a Chinese diplomatic guard killed in a terrorist attack in Somalia? Deryck Chan (talk) 23:15, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Allow assisted suicide in one-of constraint[edit]

I believe it is appropriate to allow assisted suicide (Q689846) as well; its significance is quite different from a plain suicide. Lαδδo chat ;) 17:27, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why not use it with cause of death (P509)? Otherwise, all subclasses of suicide method (Q2485083) would end up here. Where can it be found treated as a manner of death? Andreasm háblame / just talk to me 20:26, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
assisted suicide (Q689846) doesn't fit with cause of death (P509). Assisted suicide can happen using any number (almost all) possible causes of death. Although intoxication (Q18621601) may the most common, being shot also happens. euthanasia (Q100159), listed among the approved values, is in fact rather close to assisted suicide (Q689846). The latter includes the awareness and approval of the subject, whereas the former leaves it open. --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 13:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Allow assassination?[edit]

See https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q892014 --So9q (talk) 13:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, absolutely. I've also (re-)added murder.
These are specific subtypes of homicides. Murder is, with little variation by jurisdiction, intentional and unlawful homicide. Absolutely no one disputes the idea that John F. Kennedy was murdered. The bot changing murder to homicide on, for example, thousands of Holocaust victims, is essentially deleting information, is turning these statements into something the linked references do not state, and creates ambiguity where none exists in the real world, and that could be interpreted as an attempt to deny or legitimize that genocide. I know that is not the intention. What I don't know is what the actual purpose is supposed to be.--Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 22:08, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't murder a more generic class (including murder by animal or murder of animal)? To me homicide is more disambiguous. --Infovarius (talk) 20:59, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

execution by firing squad, witness elimination[edit]

Why is execution by firing squad (Q216169) separate to capital punishment (Q8454)? Also, witness elimination (Q106189669) and possibly femicide (Q1342425) seem like just different reasons for homicide (Q149086) rather than a manner of death in themselves - is there a reason why these are listed but not e.g. matricide (Q1136456), regicide (Q1475448) or honor killing (Q2691275)? Thryduulf (talk) 00:37, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

execution by shooting (Q15747939)[edit]

Salut Jura1 (talk • contribs • logs) Why is execution by firing squad (Q216169) OK but not execution by shooting (Q15747939) ?--Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 13:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cause of death changed by bot[edit]

In Q107637377 a bot changed cause of death from Q12136 into Q3739104. Imho those two are not the same. Furthermore, the bot didn't remove the sources given for Q12136. Now it seems that the sources claim this person died of natural causes instead of a disease. Imho this is an incorrect way of how a bot should work, as the result is now incorrect. Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This property is only meant for the most general manners of death (see description). To say that somebody died of an illness is more precise than to say that somebody died of natural causes, but the former implies the latter; if somebody died of an illness the person died of natural causes. To indicate that a person died of an illness (and of which illness, exactly) cause of death (P509) is used. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 09:18, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then it's clear to me that I better not use both anymore, as it must be in another way than I think is logical. Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 09:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Are one or more labels or descriptions in a language misleading? These could be changed. But sometimes it happens to me, too, that I confuse them.
I just had a look at some Wikipedia articles about manner of death (Q2438541) and it seems that a death from illness does not always imply that a person died from natural causes: If the illness was caused or aggravated by external forces (e.g. neglect) it may still be an unnatural manner of death. So I think you are right that there may occur wrong bot corrections. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 10:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK. My next question then is, how do we stop this bot? I don't think it would be wise to start an edit war with a bot Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 10:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Valentina.Anitnelav: Are really all deaths by infections “natural causes”? Intentionally infecting oneself or somebody else might just as well be suicide or murder, a mishap in a lab might as well be an accident, etc. … Emu (talk) 10:06, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Emu: I agree, I just noticed it too late (see my contribution from 10:02) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 10:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Valentina.Anitnelav: Thanks, the new reply tool is neat but doesn‘t warn you about edit conflicts :-) Emu (talk) 10:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the autofix ([3]).
I'm not sure about the addition of disease (Q12136) as a possible value to this (Property:P1196#P2302). There are also other values that don't fit to this property (death by bull horn (Q18011109)) and should be rather moved to cause of death (P509), I think. I leave this to others to decide.- Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 14:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much! Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 09:54, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It has been removed again. I give up. I'm not using this property anymore in the future. Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 15:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Where? Not at John Ernest van Nassau-Siegen (Q107637377), I think. Has it been removed by bot? - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 10:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, here at the properties. Two days ago several additions have been undone, among others my addition. Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 15:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree this is strange. In common English usage at least, "natural causes" is often interpreted as near synonymous with death of old age, or of factors which cannot be attributed to a specific illness. A person dying at a young age due to cancer or a viral infection technically died of a naturally occurring disease, but many would still call that an unnatural manner of death, in that it was caused by an uncertain external force (we all expect to die, but not so soon and by a disease which most people do not experience). It is also more general than the other values permitted for the property, given that there are already multiple values for some form of homicide, suicide, accident, and death in battle each. --Middle river exports (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In my humble opinion a disease is natural, no matter the age of the person getting the disease. That we today expect not to die so soon, has to do more with the good health care in our times. In the days this person lived those expectations were different. And that disease was also very common back then. But no matter the expectations back then or today, a disease is only natural.
More important is imho that a bot shouldn't make this kind of changes without changing the sources given. Roelof Hendrickx (talk) 14:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Middle river exports: I fell the same. But how do we set a threshold of a "natural death"? --Infovarius (talk) 20:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fictional characters[edit]

Is there a way to remove the date of death constraint for fictional characters? Koziarke (talk) 16:32, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mass replacement of accident (Q171558)?[edit]

Hi. Shall be accident (Q171558) replaced with accidental death (Q21142718) or maybe misadventure (Q4317891)? Not every accident (Q171558) results in death of person, meanwhile misadventure (Q4317891) means such accidents resulting in injuries or death. I see that it was already discussed above, but many items use accident (Q171558) so I won't change it all myself, probably it can be done by Autofix as those above? What do you think?

I saw that an admin already changed that in proposed values on property page on April 20, so I try to reverse the autofix from accident into accidental death (Q21142718). 178.43.209.27 14:43, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not every misadventure (Q4317891) menas accident (Q171558) though. I suppose it's not equivalent replacement. And it was not an admin but another anonym. --Infovarius (talk) 08:03, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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