Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2023/09

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WikiShootMe doesn't work

Since yesterday, WikiShootMe link from Geohack doesn't work. It returns "504 Gateway Time-out" (some other tools as Croptool had similar problem). Is there any other map available that would show Wikidata items? ŠJů (talk) 14:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

In the Nearby tab in Wikimedia Commons app it shows the Wikidata items that have photos as well as that needs photos.-❙❚❚❙❙ GnOeee ❚❙❚❙❙ ✉ 14:34, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
WikiShootMe and Reasonator are both projects of Magnus Manske. Likely, his server is down. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
@ŠJů There's also https://wikinity.toolforge.org/ which works similarly. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 10:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Archives on Property talk:P31

Could someone set up yearly archives on Property talk:P31? The talk page is so full that templates break. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 15:26, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Archiving alone won't help. The templates break before the discussion section begins ("Template:Autofix"). --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Can "also known as" have "reference" added?

See Q20638126 "Tomato" where I added "Love apple" to "Also known as" today.

I have a historic reference source, but I cannot add that knowledge (source link) for others to be able to verify.

I propose that a "reference" at "Also known as" be added to all "Q" items, but I do not know about the Wikidata proposal process. Thanks, -- Ooligan (talk) 00:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

"Also known as" is no property and there's no way to add references to it without changing Wikidata data model in a fundamental way.
The way you actually add the reference is to find the right property and add the references to it. The general principle is that for those statements where we want references for a name, we usually want to be specific about what kind of name it happens to be as well. It might be something like taxon common name (P1843) in this case. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Rather than taxon common name (P1843), maybe it would be better to create a lexeme, cite the source there and link the lexeme with tomato (L7993) and with tomato (Q20638126) ? Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 10:23, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Can I add "Vertigo N" to Wikidata? - medication (Q12140)

Vertigo N is medication against vertigo (Q10686316) and contains cinnarizine (Q775073) 20mg, dimenhydrinate (Q420439) 40 mg for each tablet. If not allowed in Wikidata, could you recommend another Wikibase better suited for this data? AllGreemedical (talk) 06:13, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

I believe Wikidata criteria for notability 2 and 3 are met, so you can go ahead and create the item. Jonathan Groß (talk) 07:16, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Duplicate elements

Hi. This two elements, Battle of Perire (Q104438582) and Battle of Sais (Q1152668), refer to the same event, but cannot be automatically merged because a different article has been created for both on the Arabic Wikipedia. Is it impossible to fix it if they do not merge the articles on the Arabic Wikipedia first? P4K1T0 (talk) 09:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

One of the items, preferably the newer one, could be set as an instance of Wikimedia duplicated page (Q17362920), with their other sitelinks moved to the correct page. Otherwise, Arabic Wikipedia must sort it out first. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 15:20, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

It's unclear how inception (P571) applies to buildings

You are invited to join the discussion at Property_talk:P571#Ambiguous_instructions_for_buildings. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:28, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Its not just buildings, its ships too https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Ships#service_entry_and_inception_for_ship_classes, and books https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Books#Publication_Date_Vs_Inception Vicarage (talk) 18:36, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Bot to tag items with no links or identifiers

Should there a be a bot that would automatically propose items for deletion after a certain amount of time they have no sitelinks and no identifiers or links to other websites? Kk.urban (talk) 19:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

No there are plenty of valid items that have no sitelinks, no identifiers and no URLS. For example, Jewish organization (Q104805859). BrokenSegue (talk) 19:20, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Ok, what if the same was true, but only if there were no incoming links to the item from other items or properties? Kk.urban (talk) 01:40, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Hello, there are for example:
M2k~dewiki (talk) 08:30, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
@M2k~dewiki So are these already operating? Kk.urban (talk) 19:56, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=&tagfilter=&type=&user=Dexbot&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist&wpdate=&wpfilters%5B0%5D=newusers&offset=&limit=500 M2k~dewiki (talk) 19:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on whether 'Serious' sources per WD:N must be selective sources

Letting the community know that an RfC has been opened on the following question:

"Do sources need to be 'selective' to be 'serious' sources under WD:N?"

The RfC discussion thread is linked here.

Jack4576 (talk) 12:03, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

For someone who has a topic ban on the English Wikipedia, you might want to be careful with Wikidata:Requests for deletions. Multichill (talk) 13:31, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Noted. I've been exercising care. Hence the seeking of consensus. Jack4576 (talk) 13:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Page deletions

I am wanting the pages

To all be deleted, Their subjects don't seem to be notable. 40.138.163.231 03:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

You will need to give us the QID numbers of the items you are referring to — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Q122316873
Q122318118
Q122317254
@40.138.163.231 RVA2869 (talk) 08:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done. In future you could use Wikidata:Requests for deletions for requests like this — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 10:53, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #592

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Discussions
    • Open request for adminship: FlyingAce (RfP scheduled to end after 8 September 2023 23:32 UTC)
    • New request for comments: Must 'Serious' WikiData sources be selective? (The disagreement regards the interpretation of WD:N rule number two, which states an item is acceptable if: "It refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references.")
  • Development
    • EntitySchemas: We added language fallbacks to the statements linking to EntitySchemas (phab:T338797)
    • We fixed the issue with overlapping Lexeme headers in the Minerva skin (phab:T318981)
    • Wikibase REST API: We finished the work on PATCHing for statements on Properties (phab:T342238)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Psydrax parviflorus

Hi guys! Why is Psydrax parviflorus not on the system? See KEW Plants of the World Regards form South Africa. Oesjaar (talk) 18:32, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Can I park Psydrax bridsonianus here as well? Groete! Oesjaar (talk) 19:47, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
...and Psydrax cudalorensis, only published in 2022! Groete! Oesjaar (talk) 19:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Try Psydrax parviflora (Q15434988) and Psydrax bridsoniana (Q5477296). The last one as to be created. --Succu (talk) 19:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Done: Psydrax cudalorensis (Q122260558). --Succu (talk) 20:17, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Dankie! Oesjaar (talk) 20:36, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Should “name in native language” include honorifics/titles?

Should the value of name in native language (P1559) include honorifics/titles? As far as I can tell, this is currently the case in Nariyoshi (Q11541388) and a numer of other items (in the linked item, name in native language includes the suffix shinnō, “Prince”).

Personally I’d say that such honorifics/titles are not part of a person’s name and should thus not be included in the value of name in native language (P1559) (there is noble title (P97) for that, and Imperial prince (Q903422) to use for Nariyoshi (Q11541388)), but I’m not sure how universal this is (e.g. I don’t know whether people from Great Britan would consider “King” part of the name in “King Charles”, although I’d expect no, and even less would I know when it comes to, say, monarchs from Africa) and possibly there is some project rule regarding this I don’t know of.

Sakretsu might be interested in this (having created the statement in question), 英語のラベルを変えた桂鷺淵さんも意見があるかもしれません。--Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 19:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

What's considered to be a name differences from culture to culture. In the UK, noble titles are part of the name. You see it most commonly when people get a peerage and add "Sir" to their name but "King Charles" or "Queen Elizabeth" are both names. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
English Wikipedia has extensive MOS guidelines in this regard, and I say that we would do well to adopt them in toto and then adjust them to fit our use cases on Wikidata. It is indeed a complex topic, and the answers can change based on language, culture, or national custom. Since Wikidata is cross-language, then we have a broader scope of rules to envision in this regard. Elizium23 (talk) 05:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, having consistent rules or recommendations on that topic would be very helpful, and there will definitely be a substantial amount of complexity due to cultural differences. Two additional thoughts:
  • There are cases (mostly historical figures) where the “name” is rather a fixed expression (“Louis XIV of France”, “Mother Teresa”, “Mahatma Gandhi” etc.) and would often not refer to the person in question if additions were stripped off (“Louis”, “Teresa”; not in the case of “Gandhi”, though, at least in English). Still, I want to question whether such a fixed expression should also be considered the “name in native language”; especially when such “names” were given to people after their death. Maybe we need a different property for that?
  • I have seen cases (e.g. this version of Heonae (Q709491)) where an English label containing an English honorific was apparently copied to other languages, even though the person in question does not have anything to do with English (Heonae (Q709491), for example, is a Korean queen from the 10th/11th century). While labels are a different can of worms, such cases make me think we should have a means to separate (core) names (that are usually not translated, only transcribed at best) from honorific titles (that may be translated, e.g. 親王/shinnō vs. Prince) in our data model. (Consider the case where someone wants to automatically generate labels based on naming properties.)
I’m not sure, however, how complex our modelling would have to be to express all necessary such differences, and whether that would be practical (and in addition, many items on humans don’t even have a single name in native language (P1559) statement yet). --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 09:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
If the information you wish to extract using that property follows a standard format in the native language, you should retain it, even if it includes honorific titles. In the Japanese naming convention of articles, it is a convention to include honorific titles when referring to past nobles. w:ja:WP:記事名の付け方/日本の皇族 This is because it represents the usual practice. If you prefer a format without honorific titles, why not utilize the name (P2561) property? Afaz (talk) 17:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you, so the Japanese naming convention sees it as part of the name. I’ll leave it as it is then, for this item. Yes, using different properties to represent different aspects of a name (like family name (P734)/given name (P735)) does seem like a good idea, but I’m not sure whether name (P2561) is the most fitting one to use here (or maybe it needs qualifiers). --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 20:10, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
If we lifted the restriction on official name (P1448) to apply to people, you could use that for their full names (with date ranges if changed on marriage etc, what you'd see on a passport), and rely on the label for their commonly referred to name, including honorifics, nicknames, stage names etc. Some of the most famous people have lots of honours awarded by multiple states, which take precedence, or have nicknames that look like honorifics, like Duke Ellington. I'm also not convinced that Charles III of the United Kingdom (Q43274) works well compared with Elizabeth II (Q9682), the disambiguation in the former should be in an alias, not the label. Vicarage (talk) 22:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I consider labels to be mainly for us humans so that we don’t just see Q numbers. All information necessary to construct a label (or description) should in principle be available as statements, too (which are the “real” data Wikidata offers). So I’d rather not require anyone to rely on the label for anything. But the adequate use of properties for that should probably be discussed in an appropriate WikiProject, e.g. Names? --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 18:15, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
I agree about labels, but we do need a most commonly called property that has or omits honorifics based on usage, so Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (Q131691) is the Duke of Wellington, not Wellesley, 1st Duke etc, and Duke Ellington is the same Vicarage (talk) 03:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, we need a comprehensive set of properties (or qualifiers for name (P2561)) to cover different aspects of a name, including “most commonly called” (where the “most commonly called name” is not covered otherwise). Such aspects of a name could include:
  • (what I’ve called) “core name”, without any honorifics or other attachments: “Arthur Wellesley”, “Charles” (“Charles Mountbatten-Windsor”?), “Nariyoshi”, “Heonae”. I’m not sure how to handle inner structure of the core name (e.g. given name, family name) and whether, in the case of pseudonyms, the pseudonym is the “core name”. (birth name (P1477) seems to be used for the “non-pseudonym” name, e.g. on Duke Ellington (Q4030), so yes, probably).
  • name according to the naming convention in source language (or culture), so possibly including honorifics (noble titles etc. should be separately indicated by noble title (P97) anyway)
  • names in different languages, e.g. Charles III is “Carlos III” in Spanish, there are transcriptions into other writing systems (Κάρολος, チャールズ) etc.
  • “most commonly called” names (in different languages?), possibly including “scholastic” names like “Pliny the Elder/Younger” etc.
…but given the complexity of this especially when it comes to covering a lot of languages/cultures with their respective naming conventions, this will probably need a more thorough discussion. British nobility is already an interesting case, where people have a given and family name (“Paul McCartney”, “David Frost”) but may be referred to as “Sir + given name” if I’m not mistaken (“Sir Paul”) or “Lord + family name” (Lord Byron (Q5679)). “Core” names may be preceded by titles (Sir, Lord, Lady etc.) and/or followed by position indicators (“1st Duke of Wellington”). Modelling all of this (in a unified way) may be challenging. --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 09:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
PS. The “ontological” way of dealing with this would be reifying names (i.e. creating a Q item for every individual name) and attaching properties to those name items. I’d imagine that the Wikidata community would not be amused if we were to have one item for Charles III of the United Kingdom (Q43274) and another item for the name “Charles III of the United Kingdom”… --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 10:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
I'll just leave this link for us all to consider how human names are a frighteningly complex topic, and not one that you will be able to adequately tackle with an ontological structure such as on Wikidata: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names Elizium23 (talk) 09:50, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Everything can be a frighteningly complex topic as soon as you try to account for its full complexity, that doesn’t prevent us from trying to model it here at Wikidata (the first dozen or so of the points on that website are already not an issue for our data model, e.g. that someone can have more than one name). That said, yes, there are many aspects Wikidata can’t adequately cover. --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 10:06, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
To be more precise, of the points in that website, only no. 11 and 40 are hard nuts to crack for Wikidata. Some are not applicable to the data model (but very much applicable when processing the data algorithmically), e.g. 12, 13, 18, but most others just require careful modelling (and awareness among the users of course; that’s the bigger problem). --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 10:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Person or location?

See: Q6415533 RAN (talk) 11:53, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

See also Andi Amrullah (Q24844547). The former item was imported as a settlement, but then someone added fake stuff to it (possibly self promotion). Elizium23 (talk) 12:11, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Help with petscan

I have created petscan query o get a list of a new authority control identifiers add tor items that have an article in he.wiki - petscan:21924110. But have two major problems:
a. Seems that my query includes items with reason for deprecated rank (P2241).
b. the more important issue that the query includes items that I can't understand why they appears. for example: Ahmed Hachani (Q121088468), Anna Varjas (Q99391421), Braunschweig-class battleship (Q701715), Fighting Dinosaurs (Q105087403) or Virtual International Authority File (Q54919). Actually all the articles her. Geagea (talk) 12:25, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@Geagea You may need to set the "Use wiki" option to "Wikidata" instead of "hewiki". Does that help? Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 18:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál, no. It doesn't help. Geagea (talk) 08:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@Geagea I think a) is because you're using the "Uses items/props" field - this doesn't look at status, just whether a claim is present. To get only good values you would want to do this in SPARQL (but of course then you get a very complicated query). Andrew Gray (talk) 19:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Akan labels

There's recently been a bit of complication with Akan ('ak') values on Wikidata - these have been deprecated in phab:T333765. Essentially, the language code should never have been created, and content probably should be in 'tw' (or possibly 'fat'). The code was disabled, but this left Wikidata with about half a million labels that could no longer be edited, plus descriptions, aliases, and probably some monolingual text statements. It looks like Akan support is going to be turned back on on a temporary basis so we can remove them.

The problem is going to be deciding what to do with them - delete outright or copy to 'tw'/'fat'. It seems likely that most of the entries are simple copying of labels on people, names, etc (eg William Shakespeare (Q692) has ak label "William Shakespeare") where pretty much all languages are the same and adding/removing one won't be a big deal.

However, plenty of items will have actual content which will need migrated, and some may need manual intervention. @Nikki pointed out on phab some complicated examples such as bread (Q7802) (ak label contains both tw and fat), court (Q41487) (has ak, tw, and fat labels, and ak does not match either tw or fat). I am not sure the best way forward here but thought it was probably worth bringing up on chat... Andrew Gray (talk) 19:45, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Open access vs free to read

Hi! Can somebody explain the main difference between the open access (Q232932) and free to read (Q24707952) items with regard to academic articles? Do I correctly understand that if the article is marked as just free (not open access) it is free to read, but it is not under open access status, because it can be made closed (paywall) at any time? Are open access articles assumed to have permanent open access status? Or can any of those be considered as open access, and free to read accordingly means that articles have any kind of obstacles (like advertisings, special agreements, need to click somewhere, etc.)? D6194c-1cc (talk) 21:29, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

D6194c-1cc I only have some cursory knowledge, but open access comes in different flavours and with different requirements. You can't be open access without being free-to-read. But merely being free-to-read would only qualify as being "Bronze OA". Other models of open access require the article to be published under a certain license, for example. --Azertus (talk) 09:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
So when should I use free to read (Q24707952) in the online access status (P6954) qualifier? Are bronze open access and free-to-read synonymous ([1])? D6194c-1cc (talk) 21:03, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
When having a discussion like that, it's useful to not only think about "How should I do this?" but "Currently, it's not obvious how to do this for me, and thus likely also not for other people, we should have a way that makes this more obvious".
As a result the best place to have this discussion is not the project chat but the property talk page and you can link from here and Wikiproject SourceMeta to that page. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:23, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I've started discussion from here, because it applies to different Wikipedia projects and related to sources of information. Probably I need to explain why do I need to clarify usage of those entities. I use them in template that is similar to the Cite Q template. Cite Q currently doesn't support link status, but some other templates do (see references in the Systematic review article, for example). Usually green lock means open access. But some articles that marked as free (not open access) might change their status to paywall someday. I found one such a source some time ago. So it's reasonable to use for those article another status Wikidata entity (it can be marked with bronze open lock). Those icons can help to identify open, closed and free articles and also broken links. D6194c-1cc (talk) 13:40, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
The core issue is that while the project chat is a more general place, you still don't reach a lot of the people who work on Wikidata and who hae some domain knowledge. There are plenty of professional librarians on Wikidata who actually have a good understanding of what terms like this are supposed to mean and most of them don't read the project chat.
"Clarify the usage of X" is not something that is achievable through a project chat discussion because for the issue to be clarified it's necessary that people in the future find something about the consensus that's found. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 18:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the hints. I've notified the WikiProject Books project about the discussion. D6194c-1cc (talk) 19:52, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Also, I don't think that librarians will help much with those two entities. It's rather a logic task. All open access pages are free to read. Bronze open access pages still can be considered as open access. So should I create a separate entity for the bronze open access or just add a documentation that for bronze open access free to read status need to be used? What free to read website pages cannot be considered as open access? Brainstorm need more people, so general chat is not so bad place for it. D6194c-1cc (talk) 20:33, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
FWIW we already have items for platinum open access (Q65770393) (platinum), diamond open access (Q86623052) (diamond), golden open access (Q107560020) (gold), black open access (Q86622723) (black), Q107578949 (green?), Q107578985 (hybrid?) and Q107579138 (bronze?). They're pretty bare-bones at the moment, though. M2Ys4U (talk) 00:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out those entities! I think gold and platinum are applicable for journal policies, and, probably, bronze open access as well. Black open access seems to be non-neutral term for URLs, but something similar might be used in description of some piracy sites that are notable for Wikidata. D6194c-1cc (talk) 19:12, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
D6194c-1cc I believe "free to read" should be used when something is available without a charge but there is an asserted copyright, i.e. it is not declared public domain or under one of the Creative Commons or equivalent open use licenses but instead says something like "Copyright XXXX". That means to legally do anything more with the work than what the website allows you to do directly you need permission from the copyright holder - you can't upload it elsewhere or share it or modify it etc. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:10, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I think you are right. In context of URL status free and open access articles both mean open access (gold, green, bronze, etc.), because such a source can be accessed without any obstacles. But since free articles can someday change their status to paywall it is reasonable to choose distinct status for them, and free to read is the most suitable. Also, specifying open access for them won't be an error, but is less preferable. Probably if additional steps are required to view the source, another entity might be created, such as registration required (Q107459441). If nobody minds I'll add discussion summary to the Wikidata usage instructions (P2559) of online access status (P6954). D6194c-1cc (talk) 19:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I've added brief summary with explanations in English documentation: P6954#P2559. D6194c-1cc (talk) 21:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Inception for locations

See: Bellport (Q2894994) where we need multiple dates for inception. We have the date the location was "founded/first-settled" and then we have the date in which the current form of government started, the "incorporation". Generally we imported the incorporation date, but that leads to having an error message at people who were born and died there, prior to the present incorporation. What is the proper wording to distinguish the two dates? I have looked at a dozen or so cities, and there is no consistency. RAN (talk) 19:42, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

A possible solution could be to use the earliest date for inception (P571), and then for incorporation use significant event (P793) qualified with point in time (P585). M2Ys4U (talk) 20:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
A better solution would be to use the dedicated property date of incorporation (P10786). --Quesotiotyo (talk) 05:11, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Help needed as a noob

Hello!

I am a noob (duh, read the title), and I recently expanded 2 items: Théâtre D'opéra Spatial (Q117481190) and Erewhon (Q105628552).

  1. Where do I find more identifiers? How do I search up something like an item's Google Knowledge Graph ID (P2671) or ISNI (P213)?
  2. Can somebody please find out how many followers Erewhon (Q105628552) has on Facebook, and their registration date on Instagram?
    I don't even know if Facebook pages have followers and the only reason I know how many followers they have on Instagram is because of Google's preview. I don't touch any Facebook/Meta products with a 10-foot pole, and will not do so for Wikidata
  3. What do I put when I want to input something but it has no Wikidata item? For example, I wanted to add the creator (P170) property, but there's no item for Jason M. Allen, the prompter of this artwork, so I just put "unknown value".
  4. Did I expand these 2 items well? What other properties can/should I add to them?

Cheers, --QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 23:28, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Welcome!
You can lookup P2671 several ways. Some ways are described at https://kalicube.com/learning-spaces/faq/knowledge-panels/how-to-find-a-knowledge-graph-id/
If you want to connect to an item but it doesn't exist then you need to make that item. Generally it will automatically meet the notability criteria by virtue of being needed as a link.
There's tons of properties that can be added to any item. For example: official blog URL (P1581) -> https://www.erewhonmarket.com/blog/. Or email address (P968). Or employees (P1128) (from https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/130656-07). Maybe has certification (P10611) B Corporation (Q16243343) (According to https://www.erewhonmarket.com/post/bcorp/). Really it makes more sense to find "facts" about the item and then figure out how to represent them.
And yeah these items look good! One thing I'd note is the difference between country (P17) and country of origin (P495). A piece of art has the latter but not the former. Also the painting should probably not be an instance of artificial intelligence art (Q65066631) but instead that should be listed as the genre. BrokenSegue (talk) 01:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@BrokenSegue: Thanks for your help! I applied your tips to the items! QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 03:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@BrokenSegue: I made an item for Jason Michael Allen (Q122318913) with as much as I could piece together from the internet, I will also do the same for Incarnate Games (his game studio) and Art Incarnate (his ???). QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 04:24, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
there are no hard rules here but generally I wouldn't make an item if it isn't going to be directly connected to another item whose notability is assured in some other way. so like The father of Jason Michael Allen (Q122318913) wouldn't get an item (unless there was some other reason). Could probably avoid making his employer (unless that's relevant or notable for other reasons). BrokenSegue (talk) 06:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@BrokenSegue: Thanks for your help!
Also, how do I reuse references? I have places where I have the same reference multiple times, and it's inconvenient to manually type it in again. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 12:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
You can use the DuplicateReferences gadget, which you can turn on in the Gadgets section of your Preferences. There are many other gadgets which you may find helpful to speed up your editing. --Sanqui (talk) 13:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘@BrokenSegue, Sanqui: Thank you both so much!

I now have an additional question: On Jason Michael Allen (Q122318913), I have 2 email address (P968), one is personal, and the other is his company Email. What qualifier do I use to differentiate these two? Thanks, --QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 15:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I think you'd want to use a qualifier on the email statements. Likely object has role (P3831). The items to use with that don't seem to exist but it would be similar to shipping address (Q102188471) and named like "personal e-mail" and "business e-mail" or something. BrokenSegue (talk) 15:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Constraint errors on owned by

Hi. I've got a couple of silly errors on Tintern Abbey (Q1439379)

The entities Tintern Abbey and Cadw should be contemporary to be linked through owned by, but the latest end value of Tintern Abbey is 3 September 1536 and the earliest start value of Cadw is 1984."

Same wording on operator. The dissolved, demolished date is 3 September 1536, but its now continued as ruins etc.

This has gone wrong somewhere! Secretlondon (talk) 12:34, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Fixed RVA2869 (talk) 12:52, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@RVA2869: I wouldn't call this a fix. It was dissolved in 1536 so you shouldn't be removing that statement. Multichill (talk) 17:10, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I think distruction for a building leaves minimal visible remains. Like castles that are slighted, the ruin continues on, and is still a castle, even if not defensible, or for an abbey habitable/conducting services Vicarage (talk) 19:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Try this. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:26, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Ignacio Pirovano (apparent homonym with errors)

The item human : any member of Homo sapiens, unique extant species of the genus Homo, from embryo to adultIgnacio Pirovano (Q5913495): Argentinian surgeon (1844–1895) appears to contain a mix of sources for the Argentine surgeon w:es:Ignacio Pirovano, and a painter and museum director of the same name (see this and this – the former of which suggests that their may be a mix-up on commons too). I'm trying to sort out what's what and who's who, but don't have access to all of the reference sources. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 16:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Curated Wikidata property

Some time ago we chatted on Telegram about Wikidata properties for which we add a curated statement instead of an exhaustive list. For example on Boeing 777 (Q6425) we have image (P18) set to . We're not adding every possible image, we just select one (or maybe a couple). The suggestion was to document this with has characteristic (P1552) so I created curated Wikidata property (Q121928698) and added it to some properties. What do you think? Multichill (talk) 15:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

In principle, make sense to me. Ymblanter (talk) 18:24, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Isn't the single-best value constraint already doing this job? Intuitievely, this adds additional complexity and I'm not sure it does enough to warrent that additional complexity. The constraint has the advantage that it actually produces alerts when more images are added and is thus much easier to discover.
I would prefer adding a better constraint explanation for it over curated Wikidata property (Q121928698). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:20, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I agree with Christian. This sounds like what best value should be doing and would only add unnecessary complexity that makes it harder to reuse Wikidata's data. LydiaPintscher (talk) 16:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Please explain to me how single best value is going to help me with Q5598#P800. Multichill (talk) 18:36, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
When it comes to notable work (P800) the property is purposefully named "notable" to signify that not all works get listed. Having Wikidata usage instructions (P2559) to explain that we want to list the most important works of the person would do the job. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
curated Wikidata property (Q121928698) would make that machine-readable. Since Wikidata is about machine-readable data, this would be a valuable addition. --Data Consolidation Officer (talk) 14:54, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I think notable work (P800) ideally contains those works that are generally found to be most important for a particular author. Curation on the other hand would suggest that a Wikidata user fits whatever work they consider to be the most important.
I don't see why we should suggest that notable work (P800) is about curation. If you want to be more specific about what should be in the property, I think it's good to first be more explicit about the actual policy (which is best done in natural language) and then try to turn that into structured data. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:21, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Instance of class

Related to the previous topic: I work a lot with art and the collection databases we use generally describe specific objects and not a class of object (their thesaurus might). This causes instance/class collisions. For example on compact disc (Q34467) (Compact Disc class) we have a Museum of Modern Art work ID (P2014) link to 90095 which is about a specific instance. I could of course create an item for this specific CD in the MOMA, but I don't like being forced to create items just for consistency. This is quite similar to Commons where we don't create an item for every user, but use creator (P170) set to unknown value Help with a bunch of qualifiers (example).

What I would like to do is add to compact disc (Q34467) is the statement "instance of class" set to unknown value Help and add Museum of Modern Art work ID (P2014) set to 90095 as a qualifier. Do you think this is a good approach? Suggestions for a better label? More examples to which this would apply. Multichill (talk) 16:11, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

@Multichill: Maybe "notable instance" would be an appropriate property label here? It would be a partial inverse to instance of (P31) but would allow for this unknown value usage as well. Make a property proposal and let's discuss it there. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:16, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
In Wikidata we work with the open-world assumption. You don't need to create items within Wikidata that are instances of a class for the class to be a class. compact disc (Q34467) is instance of (P31) physical media format (Q82036085) and physical media format (Q82036085) is a metaclass. That means compact disc (Q34467) itself is a class. I think a good way to deal with this is to make physical media format (Q82036085) subclass class (Q16889133). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:31, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Unlinked wikidata redirects on enwiki

There are several hundred redirects on enwiki that are tagged as connected to wikidata but are not actually thus connected. I've already fixed a few dozen, but given the size of this category, I'd appreciate others working on this as well. Duckmather (talk) 18:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

This used to be done by a bot. @MisterSynergy: is your bot still working on this? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:39, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
My bot never did this. It only modifies badges for already-existing sitelinks. —MisterSynergy (talk) 17:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Formal diplomatic relations

Is there any way we could encode the list of formal diplomatic relations that a sovereign state has in Wikidata? What I'm thinking of is something like the list here. I see that the property diplomatic relation (P530) already exists, but it's not being used for formal diplomatic relations (e.g., there's a connection on Wikidata between Taiwan and the US, which only have informal relations) and is not fully populated (Bhutan only has 13 diplomatic relations encoded on Wikidata vs. the 54 UN member states listed in the table on Wikipedia). Also, does anyone know if there is a full database with information on this somewhere? Currently the best source I know is just "foreign relations of X" articles on the English Wikipedia, which usually get their information from the foreign ministry office of the country in question. 98.170.164.88 19:50, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Numismatics site

Where/how could I propose that a new property be created for entries from the Newman Numismatics Portal, which has over 10,000 biographical entries on individuals from numismatic history? DS (talk) 16:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@DragonflySixtyseven: The proper place for property proposals (wow, such alliteration!) is Wikidata:Property proposals. Duckmather (talk) 18:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@DragonflySixtyseven: LMK if you need help with that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Appropriate qualifier?

On Erewhon (Q105628552) § social media followers (P8687), is there a qualifier property to indicate the error range? I just add a ± to indicate the error, but I don't think that's the correct solution.

I have to add an error range because it shows the followers as something like 24.5K so I don't have the precise number. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 21:17, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

± is the correct way to indicate uncertainty. BrokenSegue (talk) 23:53, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Hossenfelder

I accidentally duplicated Hossenfelder Q71254752 at Q122585615 but the merge tool Special:MergeItems is not allowing me to merge the two pages. Can someone delete "Q122585615", the new duplicate? -- 67.70.25.175 16:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I just used Merge.js to merge the two items for you. Duckmather (talk) 16:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 09:21, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Former names

Kalāheo High School used to be Kalāheo Intermediate School (grades 7-9) from 1966 to 1973, but then was changed to be a high school (grades 10-12) in 1973. Do we create a separate data item for the intermediate school? Only the high school has an article on enwiki (though it being an intermediate school previously is also mentioned in that article). Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan on enwiki! 19:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Both are possible, but you could add both P31 statements (intermediate & high school) with different start and end times as qualifier? It seems simpler than creating a separate item in this case. Azertus (talk) 10:02, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
@Azertus: Okay, I think I've got them entered correctly. Another question: The entry is using P131 ("located in the administrative territorial entity") to indicate the location of the school. However, the statement is giving an error saying that Q498162 ("census-designated place in the United States") is an invalid option for that. Does this need to be added as a valid option for that property? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan on enwiki! 16:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I think you could keep located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) with the next higher level (Honolulu County (Q487704)) and use location (P276) with the non-administrative entity. Azertus (talk) 16:53, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Azertus: Thank you. That worked. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan on enwiki! 18:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@Nihonjoe: Azertus already shared a way to handle this scenario. I would do it differently: Create two entities, one entity for the school from 1966 to 1973 and one for the high school (grades 10-12). This is more aligned with Help:Conflation. A benefit of having two items is that someone querying Wikidata could list people that worked in any of those by using the property employer (P108) and the corresponding Wikidata item without having to use start time (P580) and end time (P582).
-- Rdrg109 (talk) 17:12, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@Rdrg109: That makes sense. I've created a separate entity for Kalāheo Intermediate School. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan on enwiki! 16:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

death of mythical and fictional characters

I've added manner of death (P1196) to Ajax the Great (Q172725), but there is now a warning that "An entity with manner of death should also have a statement date of death."

But this is a mythical character. Can someone adjust whatever constraint is causing this, so that fictional and mythical characters do not require a date of death?

Likewise, on suicide of Ajax (Q122387489), how do I indicate the individual who committed suicide? I've used participant (P710), because the software offered that option, but there is now a notice that "An entity should not have a statement for participant if it also has a statement for instance of with value suicide." So how do I connect the person whose suicide is in the event? This particular suicide has a Commons category filled with ancient art depicting the event, and there is a Sophocles play about it as well, so it is a significant mythological event deserving a data item. Yet I am at a loss as to how I'm supposed to link the mythical individual who committed the suicide to the data item for the event. There is a data item for suicide of Lucretia (Q65548687) where the property victim (P8032) was used, it has multiple warnings as well, apparently because the property assumes the person is real, not fictional or mythical, and therefore must have real-human traits.

So I'm again at a loss as to how this data item should be set up when a fictional or mythical suicide is the event. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest victim (P8032) as he is the victim of his suicide — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:43, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes. But that statement produces a whole list of new errors. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:46, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I added date of death (P570) with value <unknown value>: there is a death date (within the narrated world) but we do not know it. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 19:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
But the same problem will apply to fictional or mythical characters without such a date. The death of Théoden (Q308813) will not have a standard date, nor will Leto II Atreides (Q304741) or Ophelia (Q1800888). Perhaps the issue can be sidestepped for this specific instance, but doing so will not solve the larger problem. Why are we forcing entries for fictional characters to have real-world dates? --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
We do not force entries for fictional character to have real-world dates. Théoden (Q308813) has a date of death expressed using time index (P4895) set to Third Age Year (Q308813#P570). date of death (P570) with any value other than <no value> just expresses that the character died. I'm not really sure what the larger problem is, in your opinion. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 07:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
(Apart from this I'm not against removing item-requires-statement constraint (Q21503247) date of death (P570) for fictional characters, if there is a possibility. In my opinion it is just not such a big problem.) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 07:40, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
I see how you've created a new value for fictional suicide, but see what's happening now with errors at Anna Karenina (Q4066531). --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
suicide in fiction, legend or myth (Q122397302) is only needed for instance of (P31) statements on fictional or mythical events involving suicide (suicide of Ajax (Q122387489), suicide of Lucretia (Q65548687)). Fictional entities should not be instances of classes used for real entities. For the manner of death, indicated via manner of death (P1196), just use suicide (Q10737). That Anna Karenina is fictional (and thus her death) is already expressed by making her an instance of literary character (Q3658341) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 19:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Property for superlatives?

Is there a way to say that Erewhon (Q105628552) is the most expensive grocery store in the United States? (with references to back it up, of course) QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 01:36, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Just add its numerical value with the source and let people use queries for knowing "superlatives". --Infovarius (talk) 11:17, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
What numerical value? Like the price of a gallon of milk? Elizium23 (talk) 12:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Infovarius: With what property? Like I genuinely don't understand. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 16:34, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Update: It's numeric value (P1181), which is all well and good, but how do I indicate that it's for price specifically? QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 16:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Yeah I don't think this is a proper use of a numerical value. I mean what numerical value would you put there? Maybe if there was some kind of industry standard price level metric we could use that? Honestly I don't think we have the proper properties to represent this concept. The closest would be has characteristic (P1552) but I don't know what value I would use for that. "most expensive" is kinda ill defined in some sense. Maybe just has characteristic (P1552) expensive (Q46944820) with references but that's not very specific. BrokenSegue (talk) 17:10, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #593

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Tool of the week
    • Peppercat is a website listing government ministers, and other key political leaders, from all over the world, taking data from Wikidata. More information
  • Development
    • Machine learning: We are migrating some tools that currently use ORES to the new Lift Wing (phab:T343731)
    • EntitySchemas: We are continuing the work around the new datatype to link to EntitySchemas in statements
    • Query Builder: We fixed some issues in the Query Builder language selector (phab:T344231)
    • We’re making the warning for anonymous editors more useful by letting them return to the page they came from after logging in (phab:T330550); we’re also working on showing those warnings in the first place in WikibaseLexeme (phab:T343979)
    • Wikibase REST API: We are working on the ability to remove a statement from a Property (phab:T342976) and get the labels of a Property (phab:T342977)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

What's up with geographic location (Q2221906)?

Hi,

I notice a lot of errors/warnings on properties that require a geographic location (Q2221906) (instance of (P31) or subclass of (P279))

I first noticed it at a random municipality of Belgium (Q493522).

For example:

Q31#P1667

Q31#P7127

Q31#P1549

Q13121#P1456 RVA2869 (talk) 10:25, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@RVA2869: the friendly folks of Wikidata:WikiProject Ontology probably broke the subclass chain again in their effort to beautify the subclass chain. Multichill (talk) 20:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Multichill Ah, I see... Then that's the tree I have to bark at. 😉 (Q87581528) RVA2869 (talk) 06:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

bombing sorties flown

I would like to include data for bombing sorties flown. I would start with Cambodia between October 1965 and May 1975. I have data for 115.274 incidents, and I could import data. The data includes location coordinates, aircraft used, number of aircraft, date, type of ordinance dropped, intended target, etc. But I have problems which categories etc. should be used. Many thanks. Valanagut (talk) 08:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Valanagut, thanks for this suggestion. For starters, can you comment on the three points on this page? Wikidata:Data Import Guide/Step 1: Choose data to import. If we reach a satisfactory response on those, we can then discuss if the data is appropriate for Wikidata and how to structure them :) Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 08:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Flight schedules now valid items?

I've just seen DE 43 (Q122426867). Does this mean that flight schedule data is now eligible for Wikidata entries? If this is OK, would train timetables and bus routes also be valid items? The Anome (talk) 11:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@The Anome: I see no reason, why scheduled flight shouldn't have its own item. However, from the point of view of all types of transport, the terms must be distinguished:
If there are several flights of the same operator on one route in air transport, then there could be one item for the entire line, and other items for individual flights of this line. In long-distance rail transport, separate items can be assumed, especially for traditional named trains. In some cases, however, the line (route) can be more notable than the individual scheduled rides. However, if the given connection (flight, ride, line, route) is not significant enough to have its own article in some Wikipedia or its own category in Commons, then the question is what sense and use such a Wikidata item can have. --ŠJů (talk) 16:11, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
That's what I was wondering. There's nothing inherently bad about having these, but the question is indeed what are they useful for? One possibility might be the import of NAPTAN-style data from public transport systems or even the import of airline and public transport timetables; but is this really a sensible goal for Wikidata? Or is the intent for these to act as hooks to be used to connect references to other identifier systems to allow linkage to other databass? The Anome (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Notable graves

In en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_New_York_City/Wanted_photos#Notable_graves we were discussing how to make maps of graves in a particular big cemetery to help in photographing them. Presumably whatever method works there, will work in many places. I suggested making WD items for them, so they would appear on WikiShootMe. So, my correspondent User:Nick Number put the "Burial location" property on the various biographical WD items, but they don't show on WSM. So, it seems the graves themselves need WD items. Is there a better way to get the graves onto the map? If not, how should the items for tombstone and person connect to each other? Properties? What properties? Jim.henderson (talk) 01:39, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jim.henderson: I've been trying to add grave locations to toolforge:wdlocator, but am having some issues with making the query performant. The existing query for items with coordinate location (P625) statements is https://w.wiki/7Sre, but I'm not sure how to query for qualifiers in the same way (this is a hacky slow way to do it). Sam Wilson 03:39, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

A modern building is an afterlife of a historical building at same spot.

Tate Britain (Q195436) is the redevelopment of the land where was Millbank Prison (Q1775765). What properties should I use to link them? Thanks JuguangXiao (talk) 06:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

structure replaced by (P167)? Ayack (talk) 07:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there a template on Wikidata to request a page is deleted?

Hi all

I accidentally created a page (not an item, a page starting with Wikidata:), I want to delete it but don't have the power. On Wikipedia there is just a template that you can add to the top of a page to request its deleted, is there anything similar in Wikidata? The page is Wikidata:Schema proposals/biyguy

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 10:58, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@John Cummings see Wikidata:Requests for deletions Ayack (talk) 13:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

oriental despotism (Q178147) needs fixing

And I am not sure how to do it (b/c copypaste issues in wikidata items are a bit scary to me). The problem is as folllowsː Q178147 is about a book. But only English article Oriental Despotism is about the book. All other interwikis are about a political concept. I've now stubbed the concept on en wiki at priental despotism . New wikidata item needs to be created for the political concept, with the new en wiki entry, and all other entries from OD need to be moved there (yes, I did check each and every one). Can someone help? Piotrus (talk) 10:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Piotrus,
I suppose it's easier to create a new item about the book, simply because it needs less actions.
Which exactly problems are you facing? Michgrig (talk) 21:18, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
@Piotrus, Michgrig: Based on the age of the item about the book (as evidenced by its low QID), I decided to create a new item about the political concept instead: oriental despotism (Q122484225). Hopefully this fixes your concerns! Duckmather (talk) 01:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
@Duckmather @Michgrig Thanks - everything looks good nowǃ Piotrus (talk) 03:33, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there a table somewhere to convert labels for countries that don't exist any more to the ones that replaced them?

Hi all

I'm working on importing data about species distribution into Wikidata, however some of the catageorisation of the data is fairly old (not the information itself, just how its constructed). It has categories like Yugoslavia etc which obviously don't exist any more. My question is what is the simplest and most accurate way to convert these into the countries which now exist? This is for creating maps from for Wikipedia so having the reader see that the species currently exists in eg Yogslavia wouldn't make a lot of sense. I assume I have to do all this work manually but asking just in case someone has already done the work already.

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 11:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @John Cummings,
The case with Yugoslavia is quite difficult because this country split into several modern ones. So, to find out which of the existing countries you need, you have to learn which part of Yugoslavia your data refers to. Michgrig (talk) 21:21, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
A difficult problem as you could over or under assert ranges. The data was true when collected, and may have changed now. Perhaps its best to just add it with the quoted countries and dates, and let the end user decide how to unravel it. This would be the scientific approach. Vicarage (talk) 03:35, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
The current model for Yugoslavia (Q36704) seems to be to have it link with replaced by (P1366) to post-Yugoslavia states (Q114839890) and then from post-Yugoslavia states (Q114839890) with has part(s) (P527) to the individual states. Without having looked more into it I would expect that this is not a model that's consistently used. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:31, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Inscription instead of portrait

I propose that we would use some other property (instead of P18) for people like Q28936494 because it's not an expected "image of human being". Infovarius (talk) 20:04, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Infovarius: Would related image (P6802) serve your purpose? — Huntster (t @ c) 20:15, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
The core question is whether a Wikipedia might want to display that image in case no photo of him exists. In this case, I see nothing wrong with showing the image. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

What property do I use with suicide location (Q47408425)?

What property do I use with suicide location (Q47408425)? I just read this https://www.gp.se/nyheter/g%C3%B6teborg/hoppskydd-ska-hindra-sj%C3%A4lvmord-1.1176738 a Swedish article about suicide hotspots authored by Göteborgs-Posten (Q1559719)

Angeredsbron (Q4571457) and Älvsborg Bridge (Q254996) are both located in Gothenburg Municipality (Q52502) Onceuponmasshysteria (talk) 06:14, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I would've intuitively used instance of (P31), i can't find a property that would be more appropriate and instance of (P31) is kind of the fall back property for such relations.
Angeredsbron (Q4571457)instance of (P31)suicide location (Q47408425)-- Dr.üsenfieber (talk) 13:27, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
I don't think any property should used with it. I generally prefer not to do things on Wikidata that have a good chance to lead to people dying. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
I also don't see any notability for this item. --Christian140 (talk) 12:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
@Christian140: I beg to differ. I believe that a public place mentioned by a serious news media is considered a notable item. Please see point no. 2 of WD:Notability. -- Rdrg109 (talk) 17:05, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@ChristianKl: In my opinion, a place being called "suicide hotspot" by a news media (assuming that it is a reliable one) is still knowledge and should still be stored in Wikidata. Some people might use this knowledge for good or for bad just as any piece of knowledge. Here's an example of good use: a psychotherapist doing data analysis that aims to reduce suicide rates. -- Rdrg109 (talk) 16:44, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
So @Daniel Mietchen created and named this item 5 years ago. There is notability established for the concept, because there are multiple list articles listing suicide sites. But there is apparently no basis for calling them "hotspots". My translation of the Swedish article used no such word. Could you please enlighten us to where this term is used in reference to them, other than "sites" or "locations" in a generic sense? And do they also have free WiFi and is there a list of passwords available? Elizium23 (talk) 17:38, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@Elizium23: Thanks for pointing this out. My bad. Sorry for having used the word "hotspot". I just checked the dictionary and that word doesn't have the meaning I wanted to mean. I thought that "hotspot" referred to a place where a particular event is frequently seen. The meaning I wanted to convey is the same as that of suicide location (Q47408425).
I hardly ever used the word "hotspot" and I had already forgot its true meaning, so I made this mistake. Next time, I'll make sure to check the definitions of those words that I haven't used for a long time. -- Rdrg109 (talk) 04:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Infovarius, @Dr.üsenfieber, hold on, slow down here. I believe that instance of (P31) is a poor property to be hanging this sort of thing on. "instance of" implies an intrinsic quality of an item that is far more intimately tied to its nature than a "suicide location" could be. May I humbly suggest has use (P366)? Please, let us not pollute P31 with a lot of this sort of junk; I think it was recently said here that we want to keep P31 as clean and minimal as possible. Elizium23 (talk) 14:16, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Elizium23: You've changed my mind. I agree with you: suicide location (Q47408425) should not be used in instance of (P31), since being a suicide location is not an intrinsic quality (being a bridge is the intrinsic quality). So, if we want to link those two places to suicide location (Q47408425), then, to me, the most suitable property is the one that you mentioned has use (P366). If anyone knows a more suitable property, please mention it. -- Rdrg109 (talk) 22:35, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Making decisions that have a good chance of spilling blood, is something where, if you do it you should do serious research before you take them. Using the first term that comes to your mind suggests to me that you aren't taking the issue seriously.
We have studies that suggests that media reporting can increase suicide rates and as a result various organizations have evolved media guides about how to talk about the issue.
The WHO media guide for example explicitely says "Do not provide details about the site/location. Sometimes a location can develop a reputation as a “suicide site” – e.g. a bridge, a tall building, a cliff or a railway station or crossing where suicidal acts have occurred." ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 22:44, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
I have never considered myself a journalist, a reporter, or a member of the "media". I am an editor of encyclopedias. Wikidata is not a media publication, it is a database of facts. Therefore, our treatment of things will not be directly subject to a "media guidance handbook" because we are not "publishing reports" on these locations, we are collecting and applying facts as are already found in reliable secondary sources. Elizium23 (talk) 00:35, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Encyclopedia's are media. People use them to inform themselves. There are real world consequences of that. The knowledge of those consequences leads to the media guidelines. You can make an argument that a few people dying isn't that bad because you think that providing people with facts is worth spilling blood but if that's your position you should acknowledge that it is. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:38, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Begging the question Elizium23 (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
I think it's also worth considering that data cuts both ways. What is the likelihood that municipalities, law enforcement and other first responders would collate a list of "suicide locations" in order to improve mitigations and prevention? Surely, documenting the tallest building in town, or the wettest bridge, is telling you that the sky is blue.
I also don't see anything in the media guidelines about covering up or deleting references to such locations. It would seem that the WHO wants media outlets to handle the issue with sensitivity and a lack of sensationalism, and I challenge you to find sensationalism in a Wikidata property; if it carries such a connotation, then certainly it can be neutralized. Elizium23 (talk) 19:37, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Matlin

Could give me a short resume of happened with Matlin? Not really in a mod to read through twelve pages of discussionsTrade (talk) 21:04, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Matlin made a lot of good contributions but was unwilling or unable to discuss their more mediocre contributions in a timely and orderly manner. This resulted in several blocks from the (Main) namespace. Subsequent discussions resulted in a total block, you can find the reasons given by Jasper Deng here: Topic:Xlc4pkdylt8q2ays.
What we see at the moment is a series of block evasions with a mass influx of batches that are, shall we say, lacking some aspects of quality control. It’s not easy to combat this type of project disruption. --Emu (talk) 22:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
...Why was a new account allowed to make 100,000 edits in a week without anyone noticing? Trade (talk) 10:43, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
because once you are confirmed we don't really watch very closely BrokenSegue (talk) 18:20, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Part of the problem are outdated catalogus (2018! e.g. for SeaLifeBase ID (P6018)). --Succu (talk) 20:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
How is that related? Trade (talk) 20:27, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Restore Property_proposal/Proposal_preload!

In Jan 2023 @Lectrician1: (cc @Mahir256, GZWDer:) has slashed the property proposal template (preload), see diff. I suppose this was done to allow VisualEditor users to gradually fill out a proposal by adding various macros. I don't use the VE, so when I start a property proposal, I see a few fields, plus these instructions:

This workflow is extremely painful for me: I have to go fetch the old preload version, then merge it into the current page.

Questions:

  • Is the workflow better for VE users? Do they see all fields, and not just the "mandatory" fields (which are a very small number)? Is it hard/impossible to delete unused fields for VE users?
  • Is it ok to screw up the workflow for non-VE users just to allow VE users to make prop proposals?

I've proposed maybe 100 props, and I am strongly in favor of restoring the full version of the preload! Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 14:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

@Vladimir Alexiev The main reason I moved the preload to use the VisualEditor is so that we can maintain documentation for what each are the fields are in just the TemplateData and that we don't have to simultaneously maintain it on the proposal preload as well. TemplateData also supports documenting fields in different languages, so by centralizing it around TemplateData, we don't have to maintain a translation of the preload as well.
Also, IMO creating proposals is much easier for beginners through the VE and current proposal preload as they are not greeted by so many fields that they likely do not know. VE also provides examples in a structured way of field values. It's also easy to add new fields as well through the VE. Lectrician1 (talk) 14:36, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
  • How can I use this TemplateData?
  • I think you've made a typical mistake of making it easier for novice users, at the expense of making it harder for expert users. But which of these user kinds will make more (and good) property proposals? What is the net effect of your change?
  • "So we don't have to simultaneously maintain it on the proposal preload as well": A couple of people maintain this preload. At least a couple hundred people use it to make prop proposals. Also, I think there are hundreds of proposals for every change to preload attributes. So yours is a false economy
Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
How can I use this TemplateData?
TemplateData is what is shown in the VE that indicates which fields are required, examples of field values, and documenting what each field is for.
It also shows up on the template doc page: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Property_proposal#TemplateData
I think you've made a typical mistake of making it easier for novice users, at the expense of making it harder for expert users. But which of these user kinds will make more (and good) property proposals? What is the net effect of your change?
I don't think anything is really different for experienced users if they use the VE. They still plug in values to the template fields just as they would with the wikitext editor, only its in a different interface. I realize this makes their life harder if they insist on using the wikitext editor, but I found that the pros of having centralized TemplateData-based translations outweighed the cons of the wikitext editor + syncing translations so that's why I chose to go with mainly supporting the VE. I don't know the net effect, but I haven't seen any complaints about the new system other than this one.
"So we don't have to simultaneously maintain it on the proposal preload as well": A couple of people maintain this preload. At least a couple hundred people use it to make prop proposals. Also, I think there are hundreds of proposals for every change to preload attributes. So yours is a false economy
The problem I saw was that the descriptions for the fields in the original TemplateData for Template:Property_proposal were different than those in the preload. Additionally, the TemplateData had translations for fields that were not present on the preload. That's what led me to realize that editors were not syncing the translations that we needed to centralize them somewhere.
Adding translations for field descriptions is much easier and structured in the TemplateData editor than it is on the preload page. That's why I decided to centralize the field descriptions around the TemplateData. Lectrician1 (talk) 20:13, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
I agree with @Vladimir Alexiev, it is now much more difficult to create property proposal, and many of those proposals are now lacking important fields. Ayack (talk) 07:34, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
I just looked at most of the proposal categories and nearly all of the proposals created under this system have their required fields... Lectrician1 (talk) 12:35, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Currently, we have only one button for the property proposal. We could easily have one button for the VE template and another for the older template. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:53, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

How to specify asymmetric error on quantity

I am updating Higgs boson (Q402), for example I am adding this measurement of the mass https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q402#Q402$b7faf29d-4729-fb61-5161-79525d419d2b. The original source tells me the measurement is mH = 125.5 ± 0.2(stat) +0.5 -0.6 (sys) GeV

  • How wikidata supports asymmetric error? I have tried with upper limit (P5448) and lower limit (P5447), but I am not sure... in addition I have added a symmetric error on the quantity
  • How wikidata supports multiple error source (stat and sys in the example). I have added them in quadrature.

Wiso (talk) 09:58, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Wiso: The wikidata UI unfortunately does not support entering asymmetric uncertainties in numerical values; this will need to be done via some sort of API call as far as I am aware. See for example this page on how the quantity datatype is encoded. pywikibot for example should support this. ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:00, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
@ArthurPSmith, thanks for the answer. So if I undestand this is only a problem of the UI. I am not sure if what I did (add the upper limit (P5448) and lower limit (P5447) is correct, are these two properties correspond to the json schema? Wiso (talk) 21:25, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
No, that is adding two additional quantity values, not adjusting the main quantity value for the property. I'm not sure if that pattern has been used elsewhere so can't say if what you did was wrong, but it doesn't do what you are asking as far as I can see. As I said, you need to use a bot or some other piece of code to enter these values. QuickStatements may also be able to do this, see the section on Quantity values. ArthurPSmith (talk) 00:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Linking quotation item to its work item

What properties should be used to indicate that item A is a quotation from B?

What property on item A identifies the work from which it is a quotation?
And What property on B (if any) indicates there is a well-known quotation with a data item?

--EncycloPetey (talk) 16:34, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by quotation? Can you give an example of such an entity? D6194c-1cc (talk) 18:24, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad (Q11864518) is a quotation from Antigone (Q241077). Currently, the relationship is set up using depicts (P180) and depicted by (P1299), but that doesn't seem suitable for a quoted phrase. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:23, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
What about part of (P361)? Also, the published in (P1433) property might be considered, but usage of the property is not clear. I mean legacy of combinations: work in edition, work in work or edition in edition. The similar problem have articles from books that have different editions. Every edition can have the same article modified in every book edition. Every article will have separate doi (and PMID) and might have appended authors list. So article must have its own Wikidata entity. In fact, those are editions of original article, that will be published in (published in (P1433)) a concrete edition of the book.
So part of (P361) might be used to link work to work, and published in (P1433) can be used to link work to edition or edition to edition. The same might be applicable with quotations. Correct me if I wrong. D6194c-1cc (talk) 06:22, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
I might be a little wrong about edition to edition. It can be made by part of (P361) property rather than published in (P1433). D6194c-1cc (talk) 09:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
The problem with published in (P1433) is that it assumes publication. But in this instance we have an ancient Greek dramatic work, which was not "published" until more than a thousand years later. The same issue can apply to speeches, musical works, etc, where "publication" is not the cornerstone. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:51, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
I found It was a dark and stormy night (Q647267) quote that uses part of (P361). D6194c-1cc (talk) 10:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Jaff Seijas Art

Hello - can someone help me create an entry concerning my very long career as an artist (1970 to present day)? I have abundant references and personal archives which may be of interest to researchers, collectors or anyone exploring contemporary artists. Thanks. Jaff Seijas (talk) 14:52, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jaff_Seijas: Wikidata is not intended as a vehicle for self-promotion. However, if you have been assigned a value for any identifier that suggests notability, such as any of the ten properties I found via this quick wikidata search, I'd be happy to create an item about you. Duckmather (talk) 16:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Merging Samoan Wikipedia Items

Can these wikidata items be merged? I can't do it because the pages that are being merged to are protected.


Also can someone add Faʻalapotopotoga to organization (Q43229) thanks 115.188.126.180 21:18, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Partially done. I added "+" where merge was successful, and "-" where not. In all cases of unsuccessful merge, there are duplicating articles in the Samoa wiki. So, they must be merged first. Michgrig (talk) 22:18, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Rubber-tyred metros and track gauges

I noticed that in https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ the track gauge for Orlyval Orlyval (Q432593) is 1620 mm. The same track gauge 1620 mm is shown for line 2 of the Lille Metro. Line 1 is shown in most places with the combination of the track gauges 1435 mm and 1620 mm. Obviously the distance of 1620 mm is between the running surfaces for the rubber tyres. Some Rubber-tyred lines are also equiped with rails of the normal gauge (1435 mm) for historic reasons (conversions) or the use of rail points. Bij modern systems rails are not needed for points (see File:Orlyval - Orly-Ouest - Aiguillage.jpg)

I have added track gauge (P1064)Smiley.toerist to Orlyval (Q432593) however the track gauge 1620 mm is not yet created. (and I temporary used 1600 mm) I hesitate because it is not a track gauge in the classic sense. (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
I have added 1620 mm track gauge (Rubber-tyred metro) (Q122619878).Smiley.toerist (talk) 20:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Should label for a port include "Port of"?

"Port of Manzanillo" or just "Manzanillo"? 2806:10A6:5:AB39:0:0:0:2 00:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Depends on the actual name of the port in question. If the official name does include "port of" including it in the label is good. That makes it easier to distinguish the item from the port from the item for the city. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:02, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Sometimes, for instance for railways stations, it's better to have short name in the label (XXXX) and long name in the alias (XXXX railway station). Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 16:15, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Aliases for Dutch streets

I am now uploading a lot of photos of Dutch streets (mainly Delft for the time being) on Commons. At some point it prompts me to fill in P180, and I get an unhelpful dropdown menu of 10 or so streets with the same name and no further comments such as Balistraat. To make it useful, we need to make aliases indicating the city (such as I have done here). I therefore propose to (ask a bot) to do the following:

  • Find all items with the description "street in Foo, the Netherlands";
  • Every item has the label say "Fooostraat"
  • In the field "Also known as" add "Fooostraat, Foo" and "Fooostraat (Foo)" if they are not present.

This serves the English part, I am open to adding other languages to the same request. We need to discuss the proposal before I ask for the implementation. Thanks. Ymblanter (talk) 12:15, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

My apologies, I see that I did not describe the problem correctly (though my proposal and my arguments remain the same). While filling P180 using Structured Commons I indeed get a dropdown menu, where the item name (say Balistraat) and the description (say Street in Amsterdam, the Netherlands) are shown. However, if there are many Balistraats in the country, and "my" Balistraat is not there, there is no way I can get it in the dropdown menu. If the aliases have been added as suggested, I can type "Balistraat, Delft", and sometimes even "Balistraat, D" and get what I need.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:38, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
This was recently suggested for Czech streets as well but most of the people were against it as far as I remember, because you're essentially adding rubbish to aliases in order to fit one particular usecase. I feel that aliases should be only bonafide alternative names, not disambiguation patterns. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 13:59, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
If this is the outcome, I will simply stop filling in P180 and will join the Commons consensus that it should be removed from the interface.Ymblanter (talk) 14:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
@Ymblanter, Vojtěch Dostál: Generally, the problem with homonymous labels of place items affects not only depicts (P180) but also many other properties: located on street (P669), location (P276), located in the administrative territorial entity (P131), carries (P2505), crosses (P177) and tens of others. In the case of street names, the systematic flaw of the Wikidata concept can be easily compensated by systematic disambiguations, whose form is long-term tuned and proven in sister wiki projects. A standardized unambiguous name as an alias to an ambiguous official name is a completely systematic and functional solution. A necessary solution if the system allows non-unique labels. --ŠJů (talk) 15:41, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, this is correct, we have a lot of issues not only calling Wikidata from Commons, but calling Wikidata from Wikidata. Ymblanter (talk) 15:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Seems reasonable. Aliases may be alternative names, but they're also search hints/aides. Anything actually structured should be, you know, structured. Azertus (talk) 14:39, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 Support Aliases as search hints/aides is a completely rational and consistent concept, not a "rubbish". Especially if the Wikidata interface is not able to work usable with homonymous labels, and its hints is not able to take into account the description, statements or to use smart search. Lots of other things that are imported here by bots really are a rubbish or nonsenses, but systematic disambiguation in aliases are certainly not useless - on the contrary, is is very needed. Finding and using an item with the appropriate distinguisher in aliases is at least ten times easier than alternative ways of finding it. It is true that more users requested it for Czech streets as well, but it was rejected, although the reasons for the rejection were not entirely convincing, and the serious problem persists. --ŠJů (talk) 15:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
For cases of untranslated proper names, an alias in one language will suffice. Labels and aliases in other languages practically work as aliases for the current language.--ŠJů (talk) 15:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
The combination of label and description should be presented in the Commons UI,and if not sufficient, a separate WD search should be done (and Commons able to accept those Q values if needbe). I don't think aliases should need to be added for disambiguation. The problem exists for so many categories from buildings, places, objects and people, that it would require huge numbers of aliases to be maintained, in fixed formats for one use case. Vicarage (talk) 19:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
A separate WD search is 7 (at best) extra clicks for every photo, this is just a waste of my time. I am not willing to do this. Ymblanter (talk) 20:44, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
For most photos the 7 item dropdown should be sufficient, special action would only be needed very rarely. It might be more common for streets, but not for say, people. And why not get Commons to add a more button, as we have on WD. Also wouldn't the proposed alias adding bot be more useful as a description adding bot?Vicarage (talk) 22:05, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
I rather have the search interface on Commons fixed instead of adding a lot of data to work around it. Wikidata offers 7 suggestions and a more button, Commons offers 7 suggestions without the more button. The solution would be to add the more button. Multichill (talk) 09:55, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ymblanter: I was faced with the same problem for masia (Q585956), which sometimes have very common names to the point that some thousands of masies had more homonyms that the number that fits in drop down menus, namely in the P180 menu in Commons but also the Wikidata search box after clicking "more" and even statement boxes in the Wikidata user interface. My approach was to use an script to find all masies with more than 6 homonyms and upload with Quickstatements a desambiguated Catalan alias using municipality. My R script is https://github.com/pere-prlpz/toponims/blob/master/alies%20desambiguar%20noms%20freq%C3%BCents.R and it should be easy to adapt it to upload desambiguated Dutch alias for dutch streets with lots of homonyms.

Btw, when I do mass uploads of places or buildings I try to add a desambiguated alias from the beginning. It's very useful to have a (quite) unique alias that can be guessed without additional searches, both to enter data by hand and to help scripts searching for existing items and avoid duplicates when making new uploads - duplicates being the most usual problem of mass uploads.--Pere prlpz (talk) 09:52, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I will have a look at the script. Ymblanter (talk) 11:14, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Curve-fitting, finding algorithms etc.

Somewhat off-topic, but I need this for something else, so I thought I'd ask anyways, please pardon my audaciousness. I have integer sequences that I'm interested in finding an equation or iterative algorithm that can reproduce the sequence, alternatively also analyze the sequence. Are there any good open-source tools for this that you would recommend, alternatively some 101 guides on sequence analysis? I'm already using Wolfram-Alpha and OEIS searches which are both very quick and convenient, and was wondering if there are some tools I ought to check out for this that doesn't have a steep learning-curve. Infrastruktur (talk) 19:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

https://oeis.org/  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 2806:10a6:5:ab39::2 (talk • contribs) at 20:33‎, 15 September 2023 (UTC).
Thanks. Infrastruktur (talk) 10:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Churches in Ethiopia Qs

We have "Category:Churches in Ethiopia (Q8983198)" and "Churches in Ethiopia" (Q56867760). I tried connecting them through linking to Commons category but there's an error with unreadable (for me) explanation. Maybe someone can fix this and/or make a better connection between those entities, if it is possible? PS. I fixed the error, the gibberish error message was trying to say "don't add Categoryː prefix to the value" but doing so in a way that next to no-one would undestand, sigh. Still wonder if there's a way to connect to se Qs better through other statements? Piotrus (talk) 03:10, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

I think Category:Churches in Ethiopia (Q8983198)category's main topic (P301)Churches in Ethiopia (Q56867760) would be the best way to link these two items. But I'm not that familiar with how we handle categories here. DoublePendulumAttractor (talk) 03:50, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Can categories be added to items and properties?

Items (e.g. Q6840574) and properties (e.g. IMDb ID (P345)) are not categorized. This project doesn't use categories at all in the main namespace and probably shouldn't, as any function they would serve is basically redundant to database queries. That said, special pages like Special:UncategorizedPages become useless because they are flooded by 100 million entries. Is it possible on a technical level to add something like Category:All items and Category:All properties to just make one category that all of these are in to clear out that special page into something that can be reasonably used? If that is not possible locally, is there at least consensus to make a ticket at phab: for this feature? (And by the way, I did try some hack-y ways to do this on testwikidata: but couldn't make anything work.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:00, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

I do not think that this is possible or desired. My prefered solution would be to exclude pages in these namespaces on this page. I guess this should be possible for the developers. --Ameisenigel (talk) 07:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Negative/ironic awards

Should ironic award (Q14936523) such as Sexist Man Alive (Q122445257), Corrupt Person of the Year (Q104595803), Fake News Awards (Q47093240) or Hyena of the Year (Q9291986) be allowed as award received (P166) for people or organizations? Ayack (talk) 07:43, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

I believe they'd rather fit significant event (P793). --Wolverène (talk) 08:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Ok, thanks, I agree it's better. If there is no objection, I'll add a constraint to Property:P166. Ayack (talk) 14:13, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
What about Golden Raspberry Awards (Q40237)? RVA2869 (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
For me all "anti-award" should follow the same rule and be added to significant event (P793). Ayack (talk) 16:55, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Why tho Trade (talk) 13:59, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I think they should be allowed. An ironic or negative award is still an award. Let's leave the editorialising to our data consumers, who can filter out entities that are subclasses of ironic award (Q14936523) if they want to exclude them. M2Ys4U (talk) 17:46, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Separately classifying them as significant event (P793) dilutes the meaning and sets up an unnecessary dichotomy. Please keep them all in award received (P166). Elizium23 (talk) 14:16, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
IIRC, on enwiki, accolades and awards began to proliferate on entertainment-related articles, and therefore some measures were taken to define scope and inclusion criteria. Perhaps Wikidata may be more inclusive, but we should be careful about "awards" handed out by a 100 watt radio station in North Dakota, for example, that may not meet any notability threshold. Elizium23 (talk) 02:40, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes. Awards are awards: they can be handed out for good, bad, or generally other things (e.g. Time's Man of the Year going to Hitler). —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
I agree with leaving ironic awards as awards.--Pere prlpz (talk) 17:11, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Q2101565

The link plwiki:Mit polityczny is already used by Item Q11783579. You may remove it from Q11783579 if it does not belong there or merge the Items if they are about the exact same topic. If the situation is more complex, please see Help:Sitelinks.

idk how to solve it because i don't use this project so much so i just informed. 2A02:A311:233D:9D80:AD10:E0A9:F3C5:3DF3 15:44, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Merged the two items. Thanks for advising! Jonathan Groß (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Properties for start and end points of coordinate? Or poly line? Or polygon?

coordinate location (P625) is for one point for geographic coordinate. What are the properties for segment of coordinates, such as start and end of a road. Also are there properties for poly line, and for closed polygon? thanks.

For example, I want to add east and west endpoint for Euston Road (Q3308692) JuguangXiao (talk) 12:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Consider uploading a geoshape (P3896) to Wikimedia Commons instead.
Or if you insist on coordinate location (P625), you can add two statements with different applies to part (P518). Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. I follow your tip with applies to part (P518) with value of east (Q684) and west (Q679) , for Euston Road (Q3308692). Can anyone verify this usage, especially on the value of cardinal direction (such as northeast (Q6497686)) being used here? JuguangXiao (talk) 13:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
I asked the same question a while ago, there was no solution. Ymblanter (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
@JuguangXiao: I think I've seen roads done with two qualifiers for each end coord: applies to part (P518)end (Q12769393) and direction (P560)west (Q679). Sam Wilson 03:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
@Samwilson Sounds good, but 1 question. (1) is end (Q12769393) semantically compatible with applies to part (P518), as I found end (Q12769393) and its siblings middle (Q17525443) and beginning (Q529711) (linked by follows (P155)) are concern of temporal event, not geographic/spatial place? JuguangXiao (talk) 12:36, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Great! By the way, anyone knows how this is used or implies? easternmost point on linear feature (Q80982256) JuguangXiao (talk) 06:55, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, it's useful to have at least one coordinate location (P625) even when other more precise properties like geoshape (P3896) are used because some tools like Wikishootme (or some queries) rely on it to show items on a map. Furthermore, coordinate location (P625) is often a good summary of where the item is.--Pere prlpz (talk) 09:51, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Mountains in Canada located in the US / mountains in the US assigned to Canada

Hi, Query gives you a map of mountains assigned to country (P17) = Canada (Q16), where you can easily see that some of them do have location in the US. Either the country is wrong or the location. Furthermore, for items along the border, I would suspect, that not all of them are assigned to both countries. Needs caring. I don't have enough knowledge about the geography of North America. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 08:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

To me this query renders a map of geofeatures in Canada, and they seem to stop right at the Canadian border. Perhaps I'm missing something? Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:30, 17 September 2023 (UTC) Aah, I see what you mean: A handful of red dots in Washington and Montana. Let me take a look. Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:32, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Montana is done. The ones from Washington need to be checked, too: Q56276329 Q56283525 Q56277575 Q56278756 Q56279861 Q56277696 Q56277347 Q27916921 Q56277310 Q56277748 Q56277907 Q56280669 Q49053639 Q55886409 Q55887572 Q55612653 Q60747388 Q56278701 Q55887532 Q55623901 Q55636077 Q55612769 Q55886536 Q56278467 Q49054523 Q49084283 Q56276329 Q60745760 Q49070426 Q49054004. Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:39, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
@Herzi Pinki: Du kannst einfach bei den Items Q56276329 Q56283525 Q56277575 Q56278756 Q56279861 Q56277696 Q56277347 Q27916921 Q56277310 Q56277748 Q56277907 Q56280669 Q49053639 Q55886409 Q55887572 Q55612653 Q60747388 Q56278701 Q55887532 Q55623901 Q55636077 Q55612769 Q55886536 Q56278467 Q49054523 die Aussage "country=Q16" ersetzen durch das richtige Land, bzw. die Kanada-Aussage entfernen. Ich hab neun Stück korrigiert, die hier sind übrig. Viel Spaß! Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:43, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
oh thanks. Bouncing back. I also remove the wrong assignment for other languages [2]. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 14:18, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
refined Query marks features by #country (P17). This makes it easier to see whether a feature is on the border and not multi-country, or inside the area and multi-country. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 06:46, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there a reason why the New pages list only records my items as far back as 19 August?

Kind of annoying Trade (talk) 03:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Trade:, you can list all your own page creations by checking a box in your Special:Contributions, like so: [3]. Jonathan Groß (talk) 07:00, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks but why even have this limitation of New pages enabled? Trade (talk) 09:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Special:NewPages is fed from the recentchanges table which only contains revisions of the past 30 days. If you need more, you need to query the replica database directly, particularly the huge revisions table. —MisterSynergy (talk) 11:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Not sure why 30 days is the boundary, but I imagine that a limit is sensible. Especially if there are other logs that do exactly what you wanted. Jonathan Groß (talk) 11:32, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Mobile editing

I see that mobile editing is not exactly a pleasant experience. Editing is impossible when using the mobile skin (Minerva Neue), and using the desktop version on mobile is also unpleasant.

As far as I'm aware there's no mobile app. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 09:34, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Your wiki will be in read-only soon

Read this message in another language • Please help translate to your language

The Wikimedia Foundation will switch the traffic between its data centers. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to do a planned test. This test will show if they can reliably switch from one data centre to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

All traffic will switch on 20 September. The test will start at 14:00 UTC.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.

  • You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Wednesday 20 September 2023.
  • If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it. If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal. Then you should be able to save your edit. But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

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This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule. There will be more notifications about this. A banner will be displayed on all wikis 30 minutes before this operation happens. Please share this information with your community.

Thank you, Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #594

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

This is the Wikidata summary of the week before 2023-09-18.

  • Events
    • Next Linked Data for Libraries LD4 Wikidata Affinity Group Working Hour September 15, 2023. We will learn how to use Zotero, the reference management software, and its browser plugin to automatically extract metadata for articles and convert them to a Wikidata format that can be batch uploaded using QuickStatements.More information on the event page
  • Tool of the week
    • LowercaseDescription.js is a script that adds a link to automatically lower the first letter of an item's description in the user's language.
  • Development
    • We are planning the migration of some of our existing components from the Wikit to the Codex design system in Query Builder, Mismatch Finder and the Special:NewLexeme page.
    • Warnings about not being logged-in will now have a returnto= parameter attached to their links, so that you can don’t use your flow from logging in (phab:T330550)
    • We fixed an issue with the LanguageSwitcher in Query Builder where it would open out of the viewport on some tablet screen widths (phab:T344231)
    • Wikibase REST API: We finished the work on making it possible to remove a statement from a Property (phab:T342976) and getting the labels of a Property (phab:T342977)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Items without statements, Wikipedia sitelink only

Hi, How do we handle items with no statements, just a single Wikipedia sitelink? User:Glennznl has created hundreds of such items. Dutch label and sitelink to Dutch Wikipedia (Q10000).

Contributions from Glennznl RVA2869 (talk) 19:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

It's okay to create such items, our notability guidelines say that a Wikipedia site link is sufficient. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@ChristianKlI think you're missing the point. Sure, they're notable but that's not the problem. RVA2869 (talk) 06:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
If you want to add statements to them that could be very useful - an appropriate instance of (P31) in particular to start. ArthurPSmith (talk) 00:51, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@ArthurPSmith Is there an efficient way to do this, preferably in bulk? RVA2869 (talk) 06:38, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
You could likely ask an LLM for an appropriate P31 value but I don't think there's existing tooling for that. Automatically translating the label into English would also be a good idea if you want to create a bot. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:12, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Or you can just have User:NoclaimsBot add something for you. Multichill (talk) 21:59, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
These items shouldn't have been bulk created like this. We have a number of users on the Dutch Wikipedia who keep the backlog low or zero. If you look at this version of Wikidata:Database reports/without claims by site/nlwiki, you'll see that already quite a few have been merged or deleted. Multichill (talk) 21:59, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


It is possible (and not hard) to create P31 in bulk if you can identify batches of items that need the same P31 (or whatever other property they have in common). An easy way is to use PetScan to get items without P31 with sitelinks to articles in a given category (and its subcategories) in a given Wikipedia and, once found, PetScan itself can add the property. That can be efficient if there are a lot of similar items from the same category, and it used to be extremely efficient in the first years of Wikidata when items for all articles in all Wikipedias were imported without statements. However, beware that category trees often include odd elements or subcategories of very different things, so you need to examine search results to adjust category depth and deselect individual items.--Pere prlpz (talk) 10:16, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Generation Z

Can I ask you a little edit on the Italian Wikidata of Generation Z? It should be written "generazione composta dai nati tra i medio-tardi anni novanta e i primi anni duemiladieci" HeyYoz (talk) 12:01, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

@HeyYoz: ✓ Done QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 17:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Manama Wikidata

Hi, in the Italian Wikidata of Manama (https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3882) it should be written "capitale del Bahrein" instead of "Capitale del Bahrain" 80.180.25.157 19:49, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

✓ Done —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:06, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 15:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, but it's called "Bahrein" in Italy, not "Bahrain" 80.180.25.157 13:07, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
✓ Done. Michgrig (talk) 18:33, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Google Maps Place ID

We have Google Maps Customer ID (P3749) with the customer ID for an business on Google Maps, but we don't seem to have an equivalent property for their place id, which occurs both for businesses and for places, and is the better identifier for use in the Google Maps API (See Property talk:P3749 for how I managed to use it). As Google has collected lots of information in their Maps system, does it seem sensible to add the place property? It would be a big job to populate it. Vicarage (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Google Maps Customer ID (P3749) was also a big job to populate Trade (talk) 10:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
What is the difference between Google Maps Customer ID (P3749) and Google Maps Place ID?
+ Google recommends refreshing place IDs if they are more than 12 months old. I don't know what the effect is from a refresh. RVA2869 (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/places/web-service/place-id#refresh-id says
"Notice: On March 30, 2022, all Google Maps Platform APIs will stop accepting certain obsolete place IDs. Beginning on March 30, 2022, any requests made using obsolete place IDs will be rejected, and return error code INVALID_REQUEST. To prevent user experience degradation, please refresh all place IDs that are older than 12 months before March 30, 2022." Vicarage (talk) 08:27, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

How to mark dialect region for IPA?

If an IPA is a description of a pronunciation in a regional dialect, how should the region for the dialect be marked? I tried adding location (P276) to an IPA but this triggers an exclamation mark. See Lexeme:L1149927#F1. I have also asked this question at Property_talk:P898#How_to_mark_dialect_region. Robert (talk) 07:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I found two Lexemes with each having two IPAs with different language of work or name (P407): German Eigen L344376 (German and Austrian German) and English Talk (L379) American and British English). The query I used. So presumably I should create wikidata objects for dialects and use those? Robert (talk) 08:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

linking interlanguage articles

I'm trying to link en:Kephala, Kea with de:Kephala and 3 other related articles. This used to be an easy procedure but now I'm not sure how to do it. Y-barton (talk) 22:47, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I've merged the items into one. --Wolverène (talk) 23:05, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you very much. I would like to know, please, if there's some sort of a manual somewhere for how to do this in the future. Y-barton (talk) 01:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
Help:Sitelinks explains interlanguage linking. Generally speaking in any item you can scroll to the bottom and link an article at a site. For merging items Help:Merge explains the several ways to do so. I personally prefer to use the Merge.js Gadget that is described on that page. -- William Graham (talk) 01:26, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Help needed entering P1435

I've created Waterloo Round Tower (Q122801355) and am having difficulty correctly entering a heritage designation (P1435). The tower has an Irish Record of Monuments and Places (Q30688227) catalogue number (CO062-200002), and is adjacent to St Mary's Church (Q55055108). (See w:Waterloo Round Tower) -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 12:51, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

@Cl3phact0: Please use Irish Sites and Monuments Record ID (P4057) for entering SMR numbers. Please do not forget the terminal hyphen, i.e. “CO062-200002-” is correct. I've also added {{c:Template:Archaeological Survey of Ireland}} to your photo. Regards, AFBorchert (talk) 16:07, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
BTW, CO062-200001- appears more correct for the church, the other SMR is just for the belfry tower. --AFBorchert (talk) 16:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:12, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Unable to add interior category for an item

I am trying to add category for the interior of the item (P7561) for St Columba's Church (Q55027653) pointing to c:Category:Interior of St. Columba's Church, Tullow which constantly fails with “No match was found”. I was entering the category name without the “Category:” prefix, i.e. as “Interior of St. Columba's Church, Tullow”. Unfortunately, “publish” remains greyed out. Hence I am unable to add this property. Any ideas? Thanks, AFBorchert (talk) 16:00, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello AFBorchert, the category c:Category:Interior of St. Columba's Church, Tullow needs to be connected to a wikidata object, for example similar to d:Q75111002. This object can be used in the wikidata object for the church building, similar to d:Q55049807 M2k~dewiki (talk) 16:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
@M2k~dewiki: Thanks for replying. Well then I am wondering how to connect that category to the Wikidata object. I thought I would do this through category for the interior of the item (P7561). --AFBorchert (talk) 16:49, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
If there is not yet an existing wikidata object, then a new one has to be created, where the commons category can be connected to. M2k~dewiki (talk) 16:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, that's it. I thought a simple connection would do, having to create Category:Interior of St. Columba's Church, Tullow (Q122802380) just for this purpose didn't appear straightforward. I initially thought this would be handled like Commons category (P373). Regards, AFBorchert (talk) 16:58, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
To have the commonscat (instead of the commons gallery) connected as a sitelink is kind of a "shortcut". Theoretically, articles could be connected to galleries as a sitelink, and categories could be connected to commonscats. Since galleries often do not exist, there is no extra object necessary for the direct sitelink to the commonscat (instead of the commons gallery). Also see
M2k~dewiki (talk) 17:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
I know of this theory. But this is not the viewpoint of Commons which sees the categories as main subjects. Galleries do not play a significant role and are, if interwiki-linked, just another stumbling block on the path to the proper category at Commons. --AFBorchert (talk) 17:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Also see Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P373 M2k~dewiki (talk) 17:33, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. AFBorchert (talk) 12:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Merge two items

These two items should be merged. I tried, but the following error appeared: "Failed to merge Items, please resolve any conflicts first. Error: Conflicting descriptions for language en." Gor1995 (talk) 09:13, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Someone did that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:18, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

we need to fix the problem with

I think I brought this up once before. See Margaretha of Louvain (Q2610800) where we get an error message for "statement with Gregorian date earlier than 1584" because instance_of is reserved for main values. Would it be better if we changed all of the statements to be: nature_of_statement="statement with Gregorian date earlier than 1584"? Or should we change the parameters of instance_of? I am for nature_of_statement. What do you think? We would need an automated way to change off of them, and modify the bot that adds the statement. RAN (talk) 00:15, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether sourcing circumstances (P1480) or nature of statement (P5102) is the right one, but instance of (P31) certainly isn't. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 01:06, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
nature of statement (P5102) sounds most appropriate to me. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 04:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, let them be visible. We do need to do something about the clean up. I see quite a few easy cases, take for example Q23563#P585. If the value has precision of a year, isn't it a matter of fixing the calendar and removing the qualifier? That would be a good bot job. Multichill (talk) 19:11, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
@Multichill Yes, I think it would be a good start to remove the calendar from these altogether. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 06:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

enwiki watchlist

So here's a cross-wiki conundrum. I have my watchlist on enwiki set up to display Wikidata changes for all my watched pages. In the past week, it's been showing me Wikidata changes for certain pages, but when I click through to see diffs, it's a different Wikidata item.

D  m   21:46 Communion and Liberation‎ (Q652) (diff | hist) . . Illchy (talk | contribs) (‎Changed label, description and/or aliases in id)
D  m   21:46 Catholic Church‎ (Q652) (diff | hist) . . Illchy (talk | contribs) (‎Changed label, description and/or aliases in id)

As you can hopefully see, @Illchy made only one change to Italian (Q652), yet this one change showed up twice in my watchlist, for articles which are tangentially related. How did Wikidata get tangled up in this way? "Italian" is the first link on the Communion & Liberation article, but believe it or not, "Italian" is linked nowhere from "Catholic Church" at all, not even from navigation templates. "Italian" is not on my enwiki watchlist, so I wouldn't expect to receive updates for it. My Wikidata watchlist (which should not matter) contains Catholic Church (Q9592) but not Communion and Liberation (Q868651) nor Q652. Q652 does not appear to reference "Catholic Church" or "Communion and Liberation" in any way.

Here's another example, from yesterday:

User talk:Dcheney‎‎ 7 changes history  0‎  [RogueScholar‎ (7×)]
16:39 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P580: 8 April 2014)
16:38 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P371: Q106864469)
16:38 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P437: Q24633474)
16:38 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P407: Q7976)
16:37 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P1019: https://feeds.blubrry.com/feeds/kkfi901fm.xml)
16:35 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P136: Q74303978)
16:34 Q57451712 (diff | hist) . . RogueScholar (talk | contribs) (‎Created claim: Property:P31: Q24634210)

How is this editor's talk page related to a radio broadcaster? Elizium23 (talk) 05:11, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

If you click on Edit on those pages, below the edit window there is a list of Wikidata entities used on that page; you will find the item you saw in your watchlist there. In the case of the talk page, one of the posts there linked to a WD item; for articles, the callouts to WD items most likely come from templates. –FlyingAce✈hello 05:37, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
@FlyingAce, the editing process has no such list, but I did find it in the "Page Information" tool, and all entities are accounted for, as you described. Thanks for the accurate info! Elizium23 (talk) 08:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

WikidataCon 2023: registration open

Hello all,

On behalf of the WikidataCon 2023 organizing team, I’m happy to share some exciting news about the WikidataCon 2023. The conference dedicated to the Wikidata community and co-organized by Wikimedia Deutschland and Wikimedia Taiwan will take place on October 28-29 with a hybrid format. In this email, you will find more information about the format and registration for the conference.

Format

While most of the world will attend the sessions and discussions online, people living in Taiwan and the neighbouring countries can decide to join the onsite part of the event taking place in Taipei. Online participants will be able to join the conference, follow the sessions and interact with other participants on the platform GatherTown. Onsite participants will be hosted at the National Taipei University. You will find more information about the onsite and online aspects of the conference onwiki.

The first version of the program will be released on October 2nd - stay tuned!

Registration

You can now sign up to the event by registering here on the Pretix platform. The registration form includes both online participation and onsite participation in Taiwan. Registration will be open until the start of the event. Some useful information will be sent in the upcoming weeks to people who registered, including the link to the event platform for online participants. Please note that registration is free of charge, but no scholarship to attend the online or onsite event will be provided.

Questions ? Feel free to contact the organizing team by writing on this talk page or at contact@wikidatacon.org.

We are looking forward to seeing you at the WikidataCon 2023!

—

大家好,

我代表WikidataCon 2023組織團隊，很高興與大家一起分享，關於WikidataCon 2023的令人興奮的消息。 這項由Wikimedia Deutschland和Wikimedia Taiwan共同舉辦的，意旨Wikidata社群的會議，將於10月28日至29日，以混合形式舉行。 在這封電子郵件裡你將找到，有關會議的格式以及更多關於註冊報名的資訊。

會議形式

即便世界上大多數地區的人在線上參加會議和討論，但居住在台灣及週邊國家的人，可以選擇參與在台北舉行的實體活動。 線上參與者將能夠參加線上會議，在Gather Town平台上加入會議，並與其他世界各定的參與者互動。 實體參與者將入住國立台北大學。 你將會在維基上找到關於會議現場及線上部分的更多資訊。

行程表的第一個版本將於10月2日發布 - 敬請關注！

報名註冊

你現在可以透過在Pretix平台上註冊並報名活動參加。 註冊表格裡包括：線上參與和在台灣的現場實體參與。 註冊將一直開放至活動開始。 在接下來的數周，我們將對已註冊的人傳送有用的一些資訊，包括：線上參與者的活動平台連結。 請注意，註冊是免費的，但我們不提供參加線上或實體活動的獎學金。

有問題嗎？ 請隨時透過在此討論頁面上留言，或發送電子郵件至contact@wikidatacon.org與組織團隊聯繫。

我們期待在WikidataCon 2023見到你！ Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 06:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Split entries or keep together as is now?

Case in point: Q4131491 is now about the person (instance of human).
The ru-wiki article is about the event led by this person, and normally should have its own wikidata entry separate from the person.
However, the linked az-wiki and lez-wiki articles, which look like biographical articles, are primarily about the event, not the person.
What's the proper course of action - change the instance of of existing wikidata record, or split it, or let it stay as is? Retired electrician (talk) 07:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I would split them up and if possible add intentional sitelinks to redirects. I.e. in Q4131491 the sitelink for ruwiki be ru:Гаджи Магомед Эфенди Штульский, an article redirect that is the person's name. -- William Graham (talk) 14:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Generally, having a Wikidata item for the person and one for the event is good. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Sitelinks_to_redirects explains how to still have interwiki links. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

location (P276) wonder

Hello, I wonder if countries values are allowed into location (P276) ? My understanding is that only countries should be into country (P17) and any other (more precise or very vague localisations) and no countries per se inside P276, as it is not the case in these samples : https://w.wiki/7UDu Are there any rules about P276 ? Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 16:21, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

I've seen states used in located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for the same purpose - that is, for things that don't fit in any administrative division smaller than the state. It seems better than location (P276) but I don't know if any of them is recommended.--Pere prlpz (talk) 17:09, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
By states, did you mean for instance US or canadian states ? Them being in P131 does not shock me, just saying.
But a country being in P131 instead of P17 is shocking, such as this item

Compañía Lucamoros(Q117351131).

I think it'd be a good idea to show constraints values into P131 and P276, should one trying to put a country inside Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 19:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
For works of art we want to have the location (P276), see Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure#Describing_individual_objects for full overview. Both located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) and country (P17) are not appropriate or ambiguous for movable works of art.
For some works of art we only know what country these works are currently in so that's listed as the location. I just did https://w.wiki/7V3T to find some cases. Some valid, a lot of junk. We could possibly adopt a different convention to avoid using countries. Multichill (talk) 19:22, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
I see the distinguo. Something that has been inside the country (but without precision on the location because it is movable or is hidden), then one might state P131=(country). I can get the distinguo and perhaps a qualifyer
like this https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q29882478#P276 but I am not satisfied (does the qualifyer applies to the qualifyer of date or to the country ?)
Do you nevertheless agree it is totally nonsense to input located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)=country ? Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 19:41, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

How to mark dialect region for IPA?

The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin script. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association in the late 19th century as a standardized representation of speech sounds in written form. IPA is also not universal among dictionaries in languages other than English. Monolingual dictionaries of languages with phonemic orthographies generally do not bother with indicating the pronunciation of most words, and tend to use respelling systems for words with unexpected pronunciations. Traditionally the IPA is used for articulating sounds and pronouncing words accurately, most commonly when looking them up in a dictionary. Jubaidul Alam Khan (talk) 13:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Google's Cloud Text-to-Speech (and presumably other text-to-speech solutions) supports IPA and X-SAMPA phoneme coding for multiple languages including English, German, Spanish, French, Chinese, Korean, Hindi, Russian, and more. So IPA does not seem to be limited to English in the future. Robert (talk) 07:40, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
While they support it as input many of these system internally don't use IPA to represent sounds. One reason is that just because two languages use the same IPA sign for a phoneme does not mean that they are pronounced exactly the same. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 18:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I got a smile

There are, of course, a number of entries whose Q-numbers are significant. I got a big smile yesterday out of noticing who Q12345 is, and I'm sure any other fans of Sesame Street (Q155629) will agree. (On the theory that smiles should be spread, I'm posting about it here — not for any other reason.) —scs (talk) 03:10, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Well, that makes two, two of us with big smiles Ah ha ha! –FlyingAce✈hello 05:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Make that 3 😁😁😁 QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 08:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
@scs, FlyingAce: See WD:Humor for more such easter eggs. QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 08:37, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Same but less funny with bead(Q12345678) Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 08:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
@scs:: Thank you so much, this really made my day! Jonathan Groß (talk) 09:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Hmmmmm, technically speaking, I guess we would have to consider bead (Q12345678) hijacked ... --Dorades (talk) 19:38, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
Indeed, I do not understand the redirect stated by @MisterSynergy on Q12345678 Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 07:54, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
There is a misunderstanding; I meant that the item was hijacked/repurposed in this state, because it was originally about beads and was merged with bead (Q1053956), before it was remodeled as Space Creator Day. As you certainly know, we don't repurpose/reuse redirected items. --Dorades (talk) 15:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

merge "data carrier" and "recording medium" ?

Q193395 and Q104450446 seem to denote the same thing. The first is a lot more detailed. Graefestrasse (talk) 15:32, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

If one is more detailed than the other, they aren't the same thing and should not be merged. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:02, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
The one that has less properties can be merged into the one that has a lot, I think. Graefestrasse (talk) 10:24, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Both items link to different articles in ruwiki, so we would not be able to merge them. –FlyingAce✈hello 13:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
OK, thanks! Graefestrasse (talk) 13:22, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Interested in a little image-cropping project?

Normally I would contact the user about this, but the account is appears to be stale. This pertains to a user who have added P18 statements which I consider to be unsuitable, partly because they are PDFs but mostly because they they do not serve as illustrations or photos of the subject in question, as exemplified on Edvard Grieg (Q80621) and Giuseppe Verdi (Q7317). Now it should be possible to crop an image from some of the PDFs if you are interested in a little project. If there is no interest I plan to mass-deprecate all the statements, that is every P18 statement made by the user that links to a PDF. Infrastruktur (talk) 18:06, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Careful, though - some of them do serve as illustrations of photos of the subject in question, even if they are PDFs.
As for stale - the user appears to have been Wikipedian in Residence in Belgrade, so if you really want, you could contact Wikimedia Serbia. DS (talk) 19:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
IMO if the illustration is on the first page, it might be better than nothing, if it's on page two it's useless in it's uncropped state. Infrastruktur (talk) 21:01, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I think it would be useful to start with a page using Wikidata:Listeria query to track the usage. -- William Graham (talk) 15:37, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
You can install the Crop Tool (https://croptool.toolforge.org/) at c: and easily crop out PNGs from PDFs. If someone needs help with that, let me know. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:26, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
I tested it on Lazar Jovanović (Q31186075) just now. It looks much better. Infrastruktur (talk) 00:11, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Nice. Teamwork makes the dream work. <3 —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:13, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way to get all STEM pages on wikipedia?

I've been going through the categorylinks table a fair amount, and walking the tree/graph you end up pulling in almost all of wikipedia when you start from science as your root category and recursively pull in subcats/pages. Someone pointed me to wikidata as a way perhaps to solve this problem, but I'm unconvinced as building a proper categorization of something like STEM pages I think would require a very specific effort. Wikiqrdl (talk) 19:04, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

One idea I proposed was 'category views'. Sort of like portals, where an individual or a group takes ownership of a category view and they control what gets included in it. It could use only existing tags / categories, but the connections between them and to pages would be controlled by the view. My thoughts are that it would lie generally outside the main flow of things, similar to wikidata. Importantly, the category views would be 'purpose built' by domain experts who understand how something might be useful to similar practitioners. Some sort of category view rating system might be useful, perhaps along different dimensions. Wikiqrdl (talk) 19:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
As an example for the above, let's say a professor of education wanted to create a high quality list of all the pages for STEM on wikipedia. First they'd categorize it and then then they'd include the pages they felt met their bar in the categories. Something like this -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents/Mathematics_and_logic but more complete and with a very well thought out hierarchical arrangement that would serve someone going into STEM field of study might be find credible and useful. Importantly, it wouldn't get sidetracked by things like botany->plants->coats of arms with plants (as an example) Wikiqrdl (talk) 19:54, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Wikidata itself is not organized into categories or tags. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:09, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
@Wikiqrdl: If you only care about the English Wikipedia, use https://wp1.openzim.org/#/project/Mathematics/articles. See w:WP:PROJDIR/S for a full list of science WikiProjects. Dexxor (talk) 10:32, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Very cool, the wikiprojects/portals are exactly what I was looking for. Is there a database dump of the projects I can import? I'm trying to create a compilation of all the stem pages. I have all the other dumps imported. Can I traverse the wikiprojects and their subcats/subpages via the categorylinks table? Wikiqrdl (talk) 07:14, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, that's what I thought. Wikiqrdl (talk) 07:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
fwiw, I tried to create a sparql to solve the problem, but it looks like the tagging just isn't complete. eg: https://w.wiki/7YWM instance of science, part of education. 8 results? Wikiproject / portal folks could help here. Wikiqrdl (talk) 02:29, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
@ChristianKl @Dexxor One idea that came to me is that things like wikiprojects and portals could be organized around sparql queries. This would help get domain expertise to help inform the wikidata project. Eg, say a portal around botany was created, they would topline the query they used to capture the articles of interest. They would work with the wikidata project to make sure their wikidata was expressive enough and that their query was not overly broad / in appropriate. Wikiqrdl (talk) I proposed this here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)#Portals_should_be_strongly_encouraged_to_organize_around_sparql 1:54, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

there is no subtopic for data flaws / wrong data in the large

In the heading {{Discussion navigation}} there is a lot of subtopics, but astonishingly no subtopic for systematic data flaws or wrong data in the large. Is there a place where kind of work packages can be dropped (for those interested in the correctness of the data) or is it intended to have the triage: love the data, correct the data, or leave wrong data as they are? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 08:16, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Kannst du das bitte nochmal auf Deutsch schreiben? Ich (Englisch C1) verstehe nur Bahnhof. Welches heading? Was meinst du mit subtopics? Was ist "love the data"? Jonathan Groß (talk) 08:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Sure, I can, but this is the English project chat. Sorry for my English. Ich suche einen Platz, wo ich Arbeitspakete abladen kann und wo jemand sich ev. auch drum kümmert. Triage ist ein doppeltes Wortspiel / Anspielung, hier auf die Daten in Wikidata angewandt. Triage im militärischen Sinn heißt, die die eh sterben, sterben zu lassen. Triage hier auf Wikidata hieße, die sinnlosen Daten, die falschen Daten, die inkonsistenten Daten einfach liegen zu lassen. Auch beim Militär sterben ja nicht alle, die dafür aussortiert werden. Der zweite Teil der Anspielung bezieht sich auf Love it, change it or leave it (Liebe es, ändere es oder geh). Was dann heißen soll: Wunderbare Daten, alles ok - ich liebe die Daten; fehlerhafte Daten, widersprüchliche Daten, unvollständige Daten - dann krempel ich die Ärmel hoch und ändere sie halt; oder ich geh (es gibt unfeinere Formulierungen dafür) bzw. lasse sie wie sie sind, schau nicht hin, .... lg --Herzi Pinki (talk) 08:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Alright, then I would like to know what sort of data (subject matter, format) you are referring to and how you imagine it could be integrated with Wikidata. In principle the community can help with curating data donations of this sort, but we need to know what we would be dealing with more specifically. Jonathan Groß (talk) 09:10, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Or maybe I again misunderstood, and by "Arbeitspakete" you mean tasks that need to be done on existing data in Wikidata? We have Wikidata:Bot requests, but that is mostly inactive. Why don't you just use this venue and list your jobs here? Jonathan Groß (talk) 09:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

see below --Herzi Pinki (talk) 09:26, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Most people on Wikidata have certain data they are interested on and work on that data. There are few people on Wikidata who want to do large packages of work that someone else believes should be done. One place where you can discuss data problems is in the relevant Wikiprojects. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: thanks for the hint, got your point. My problem is the other way round. What if people are not really interested in the data they have imported from somewhere else? What if they do not care and curate and complete the data? Am I one of those few people on Wikidata who want to do large packages of work that someone else caused and nobody is eager to fix? Is quality a common goal of the community here on Wikidata? Or is it just number of items? As an example see the mountains in the state of Washington assigned to country Canada (Q16) (just below). The assignment of Canada (Q16) has been done by User:&beer&love, not active any more. I just stumbled across. Sure, I can try to fix it and not bother someone else. And this is only Canada in the US. What about Kenia in Tansania, or Chile in Argentina? I also stumbled across data imported from peakware (discontinued for more than 2 years now) with a lot of duplicates. I asked the importing user to fix this or to help me to fix it. He gave me the advice that I will waste my time. I'm working on Austrian geographical objects imported via geonames / Ljsbot / WP:ceb / EmausBot for years now: Existence is not always clear, spelling often is incorrect, location is cut to minutes mostly, elevation is derived from this inaccurate location info and there are a lot of duplicates (and I did not dare to have a look across the Austrian borders). I'm also working on the protected monuments of Austria for just a while, those have been imported by some bot in 2017 using wrong heuristics. There was no will (=no reaction to my complaints) from the bot operator to care for the necessary fixes. These are only some examples. Thanks for listening. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:18, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Different people have different goals. Generally, finding some place where data quality can be improved on Wikidata isn't that hard. The bottleneck is not in having people point to problems.
People who do care about data usually care about a certain subset of the data. When it comes to data quality of mountains, that should probably be talked about in some Wikiproject about geography. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:24, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
ok. I did not find a suitable wikiproject here on wikidata (only items linking to various projects in various languages in various wikipedias), can you give me an example here in wikidata? The other point is how do we get a feeling about the overall quality of wikidata in the large, if we not even do collect flaws? Is quality a goal of Wikidata? (different people have different goals)? How is quality organized and created? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Also see
M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:31, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Page deletion

This page should be deleted, I accidentally created it when the page already exists

Q122804948 67.140.228.0 21:40, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Which is the correct page? Michgrig (talk) 21:50, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Q117634166 is the correct page 173.184.79.210 21:59, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Page deletion

This page Q122854647 isn't notable 67.140.228.0 19:40, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:17, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Limit of 400 readings from Wikidata per page

On Slovene Wikipedia we have List of populated places in Slovenia (S) that consists of 694 entries. We are trying to add Wikidata image (Property:P18) to every entry, but there is a limit of 400 readings from Wikidata. Is there any possibility to set this limit at 700? Janezdrilc (talk) 13:57, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

@Janezdrilc: Changing that limit alone won’t be enough, I’m afraid – as the change that introduced it points out, above 500 accesses you also start to run into the general expensive parser function limit, which is 500 for all wikis. You can file a Phabricator task (that might be a better place to discuss this than project chat), but to me it doesn’t feel likely that this limit will be lifted significantly :/ Lucas Werkmeister (WMDE) (talk) 10:59, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. Thanks for answer. --Janezdrilc (talk) 11:57, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion list ordering

How can we fix the ordering in the suggestion list for sex or gender (P21), so that the most frequently used values appear first? Discussion on its talk page has proved fruitless. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:16, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

fallback language behavior?

Hi, is there a definition somewhere how language fallback will work on wikidata and adjacent wikipedias? Consider language pairs (en & en-ca, en-br; de & de-at; pt & pt-br etc.) I often find copies of labels / descriptions / aliases here in wikidata, which are just copies (redundant copies) from the main language to the variant language. In worse cases those labels / descriptions are meant as copies, but have been modified on one side only and give different values, not because of the underlying language, but due to edits not done on all ends. My assumption is that if there is no label for en-ca, the label for en will be taken automatically (eventually depending on some user config). This is the fallback from en-ca to en. Does my assumption hold true for

  • page title of items
  • page titles and descriptions shown in auto-completion when typing ahead
  • page titles and descriptions shown in search results
  • page titles and descriptions in Sparql results
  • labels and descriptions shown on wikipedias?

Concluding: Is there any need to have labels, descriptions & aliases for en-ca, if they are all identical to en? best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:31, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

We've had discussions of duplicated labels before, see Help_talk:Mul_language_code for how a 'mull' language code might help. Most people believe there is no need to duplicate a value if a more general language class has it, or if the label in the home country language of an item would apply in equally well in other languages. [[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikidata_Query_Service/User_Manual#Label_service describes how a query can return values in a preference list of languages. Vicarage (talk) 12:49, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
my question was not about discussions and not about beliefs, but about specification and implementation. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
M2k~dewiki (talk) 11:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
if I understand it correctly, this will not be of any use for users without language specific settings here, for flyby users not logged in, for anonymous users, for users in other Wikipedias. It is editor-centered, not reader-centered? --Herzi Pinki (talk) 15:55, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
If you are not logged in, you get some mix of browser language settings for content pages and english as standard language, e.g. for user interface elements. For SPARQL-Queries you have to specify the language for the labels in the query. M2k~dewiki (talk) 16:06, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #595

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
  • Events
    • Upcoming
      • WikidataCon 2023, the conference dedicated to the Wikidata community, is taking place on October 28-29, online all around the world and onsite in Taipei. You can now register for the conference.
      • WikiIndaba 2023 Microgrants available for community events!
      • Next Linked Data for Libraries LD4 Wikidata Affinity Group Working Hour September 29. This event is part of a series where you can gain hands-on experience with Wikidata by working on a diverse library and information science (LIS) dataset. In this fourth session, we'll introduce the Wikimedia PAWS environment for data gathering and processing in your Wikidata projects. We'll focus on web scraping for article data using Python and the Beautiful Soup package for parsing. You'll learn about data models for making your data accessible to both machines and humans. This session will be recorded and shared on the event page. Event page.
    • Ongoing: Weekly Lexemes Challenge #110, Ohm's law (Challenge started on 2023-09-25 12:01:32)
  • Tool of the week
    • User:Luca.favorido/linkypop.js is a script that can be used to search an identifier on an external site. It provides a button to search for an identifier as soon as you type it in the property input field. For example, if you type “ORCID”, an icon with a lens will appear, and when you click it, a new tab will open with the ORCID site looking for the name of the researcher. You can then copy the URL and paste it to Wikidata.
  • Development
    • Lexemes: We are fixing an issue that made edit links and styles disappear (phab:T344362)
    • Mismatch Finder:
    • We are continuing to migrate tools from ORES to Lift Wing (phab:T343731)
    • We've added Wikifunktions as a new wiki for sitelinks (phab:T342857)
    • Wikibase REST API: We are working on making it possible to get labels, descriptions and aliases from a Property as well as modify the description of an Item

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

One item about two lakes is a mess.

Lake Akdoğan (Q30681483) states that it is instance of (P31) lake (Q23397). But the linked Wikipedia articles are about two neighboring lakes with the same name (distinguished as the "bigger" and the "smaller"). The numbers in the item for height, depth and area are for the bigger lake, but the image pictures the smaller lake. This is confusing and misleading. How to fix it? Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 00:13, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

It seems that the only reason that there is currently one item is because the Wikipedias each represent two lakes in a single article. There should be nothing preventing us from dividing this up into two items, Akdoğan Gölü and Küçük Akdoğan Gölü, because if I am to believe the English-language article, they are distinct, neighboring lakes, and they are separated by a strip of land, and as you describe, they each have separate characteristics. Elizium23 (talk) 02:16, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
This is known as the "Bonnie and Clyde" problem (see intro paragraphs at Wikidata:Sitelinks to redirects). There are two options: 1) Keep it a an item about the pair of lakes, and create new items (unless they already exist?) about each lake or 2) Make it about one lake, and create a new item about the other, and another item about the pair. In either case, move the relevant values and interwiki links to the correct items. Since the item was originally created to match the en.Wikipedia article, option 1 would eb best in this case. Link the tree items with "has part"/ "part of" statements. Finally, check all inbound links and update if needed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:25, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Bonnie and Clyde (Q219937) is instance of (P31) duo (Q10648343). What should an item for two lakes be an instance of? Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 13:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
group of lakes (Q5926864), possibly also dyad (Q29431432) but it isn't used much. Peter James (talk) 16:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Or simply Wikipedia article covering multiple topics (Q21484471) if those two lakes aren't described together as one (two-part) object by reliable sources. --2A02:810B:580:11D4:88F5:DCA0:EAAF:636D 12:49, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I agree; the "Bonnie and Clyde" conundrum is for two entities inextricably linked yet independent in small ways. These are two separate lakes. They happen to share a name, but that hasn't hindered the Turkish from distinguishing them.
Lazy Wikipedians simply mashed them into one article so they'd survive AFD and there's hardly anything to write about both together. Elizium23 (talk) 14:50, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Three of the four references in the English article (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lake_Akdo%C4%9Fan&oldid=1177028494) mention both, so I think "generally described together" (in Q5926864) applies; the other (reference 2) just mentions one. Peter James (talk) 21:36, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Merge Mullan Road entities

Mullan Road (Q106042441) and Mullan Road (Q1952200) should be unified. The Commons link should be Category:Mullan Road. Bri (talk) 18:36, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

WikidataCon 2023: first version of the program is out

Hello all,

On behalf of the WikidataCon 2023 organizing team, I’m happy to share that we released the program of the conference dedicated to the Wikidata community. Co-organized by Wikimedia Deutschland and Wikimedia Taiwan, it will take place on October 28-29 with a hybrid format. In this email, you will find more information about the format, the program and registration for the conference.

Format

While most of the world will attend the sessions and discussions online, people living in Taiwan and the neighbouring countries can decide to join the onsite part of the event taking place in Taipei. Online participants will be able to join the conference, follow the sessions and interact with other participants on the platform GatherTown. Onsite participants will be hosted at the National Taipei University. You will find more information about the onsite and online aspects of the conference onwiki.

Part of the program (Day 1 and Day 2) will be delivered from the onsite event in Taipei, on their day time. The other part of the program (Day 1.5 and Day 2.5) will be produced online, at times that will be more friendly to participants located on the European, African and American continents. In any case, the contents of the conference will be available online during or after the conference.

Program

Together with volunteers involved in the program committees, we elaborated an ambitious program that will run across time zones. Connected to our theme “Collaboration across boundaries”, the sessions will cover a huge range of topics (data quality, data reuse, Wikidata and the Wikimedia Projects, open data initiatives). In particular, we want to highlight the Wikidata and open data projects and initiatives in the ESEAP region.You can find the first version of the schedule here. You can switch time zones, languages, and mark sessions as favourites. Some changes may still happen in the upcoming weeks.

English and Mandarin are the official languages of the event. The sessions will be available in these two languages, either via captions or interpretation. If you are interested in helping us translate contents (program, wikipages, sessions) please get in touch!

Registration

You can already sign up to the event by registering here on the Pretix platform. The registration form includes both online participation and onsite participation in Taiwan. Registration will be open until the start of the event. Some useful information will be sent in the upcoming weeks to people who registered, including the link to the event platform for online participants. Please note that registration is free of charge, but no scholarship to attend the online or onsite event will be provided.

Questions ? Feel free to contact the organizing team by writing on this talk page or at contact@wikidatacon.org.

We are looking forward to seeing you at the WikidataCon 2023!

—

電子郵件/維基

主題：2023 年維基數據大會：第一版活動議程上線！

逐家好，

很高興我代表2023年維基數據大會組織團隊，發佈本次 Wikidatacon 2023 的第一版議程。這是由德國維基媒體協會和台灣維基媒體協會共同主辦，會議將於 10 月 28 日至 29 日以混合形式舉行。在此電子郵件中，你會看到更多有關會議形式，專案以及註冊的資訊。

舉辦刑事

儘管世界上大多數人將參與網上會議以及線上討論，但居住在台灣和鄰近國家的人，可以決定參加在台北舉行的活動的實體活動。在線參與者可加入會議，關注會議並在Gather Town 平台上，與其他線上參與者互動。實體參與者將在國立臺北大學舉行。你可以在 wikidata page上找到有關會議現場和在線方面的更多資訊。

部份議程（第 1 天和第 2 天）將在白天的臺北現場活動進行。議程的另一部份（第 1.5 天和第 2.5 天）將在線上呈現，該時段更適合對位於歐洲，非洲和美洲大陸的參與者將。會議內容將在會議期間或在這之後，以線上提供。

活動議程

我們與參與專案的委員會的義工一起制定一項具有企圖心的計劃，該計劃將跨時區運行。與我們的主題“：鏈結資料 Koh（再）發現：Wikidata 的跨領域匯流＂”相關，會議將涵蓋廣泛的主題（資料品質，資料重用，維基數據和維基媒體專案，開放資料倡議）。

重點是：我們想強調ESEAP地區的維基數據和開放資料項目和倡議。你可以在此處找到活動議程表的第一個版本。未來數周仍可能發生一些變化。

英語和中文是活動的官方語言。會議將以這兩種語言提供，無論是字幕還是口譯。如果你有意願幫助我們翻譯內容（活動議程，維基頁面，討論頁），請聯絡我們！

報名

你已經可以透過在 Pretix 平台上報名該活動。報名表包含線上參與者，和臺灣現場參與者。報名將開放到活動日開始。相關有用的資訊將在未來幾周內寄送給已完成報名者，包括線上參與者的活動平台連結。請注意，報名是免費的，但不提供參加線上或現場活動參與的獎助金。

有問題？請隨時透過在此討論頁或 contact@wikidatacon.org 上寫信與組織團隊聯絡。

我們期待在2023年維基數據大會上與你見面！ Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 06:08, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Q item of related concepts

There are tons of items, such as arg max and min (Q287353), directly copied from wikipedia pages, which are pairs of separate but related concepts. (Is this called umbrella/collective item?) I think these concepts should be created as separate items, such as arg max (Q122827897) and `arg min`. My question is how to interlink (by which properties) between collective and individual ones? Thanks JuguangXiao (talk) 06:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I've seen the use of part of (P361) and has part(s) (P527). Then make the item for both an instance of Wikipedia article page (Q50081413). And if possible add intentional sitelinks to redirects covering the individual concepts for wikis that only have the combined articles. As examples see short and long titles (Q118210315), short title (Q2470803), and long title (Q6673543). -- William Graham (talk) 16:19, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia article covering multiple topics (Q21484471) would be better, with main subject (P921) being used for the "subtopics" instead of has part(s) (P527). —Xezbeth (talk) 16:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
That's what I have used before, but there is also pair of concepts (Q814383), which is probably more accurate for most items of this type. Peter James (talk) 15:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Изтрита Уикипедия

Здравейте казвам се Пламена Червенкова забелязах,че страницата ми е изтрита без причина от анонимен.Моля да бъде възстановена! Благодаря 85.118.76.14 10:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Temporary accounts for unregistered editors

Read this in your language • Please help translate to your language • Please tell other users about these changes

Mock up of history page showing old and new username styles. The IP address 172.0.0.1 changes to the temporary account ~2024-23126-086, with an icon for revealing the underlying IP address
Next year, unregistered editors will start using temporary accounts.

In 2024, editors who have not registered an account will automatically begin using temporary accounts. These editors are sometimes called "IP editors" because the IP address is displayed in the page history.

The Trust and Safety Product team gave a presentation at Wikimania about this change. You can watch it on YouTube.

There is more information at m:IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation.

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:05, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

typo Univeristy --> University

Hello, anybody hanging around to take a look at the spelling of university? "Univeristy" should be corrected. Thank you so much for your time. Lotje (talk) 13:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Also see https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AKurier&diff=236142807&oldid=236141454 M2k~dewiki (talk) 20:52, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Also see de:Benutzer:M2k~dewiki/FAQ#Wie_kann_ich_massenweise_Tippfehler_in_Beschreibungen_korrigieren? M2k~dewiki (talk) 20:57, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you M2k~dewiki for coming back on this. Do you mean you or Aka could change that "in one go"? Lotje (talk) 03:46, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Describing a page range for an article within a PDF file

I want to document that Fan Bay Deep Shelter (Q20711474) is described by pages 49-62 of issue 38 of magazine Subterranea (Q115785692), which I know is in the Internet Archive as a PDF at https://archive.org/details/subterranea-38. I know that the magazine has a cover and inside cover without page numbers, it numbers from 1 on the third page. Should I refer to the visible page number, 49, or the PDF page 51, so that the #page= extension to the URL loads at the right point. I could quote the URL itself with the correct PDF page, but that feels inflexible. Is there any merit in documenting this page offset in the magazine description? Vicarage (talk) 13:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I think file page (P7668) was created for cases like that. See the property examples there. --2A02:810B:580:11D4:2F4:6FFF:FE72:D65F 07:11, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. I see there is also file page offset (P8330), though that's currently restricted to being a qualifier. In Property_talk:P8330#Use_for_magazines_and_journals I propose it being allowed at the higher level. Vicarage (talk) 08:30, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Radio frequencies

There are radio-frequencies which are quite stable : famous radio emitters, official frequency bands, maritime or airlines frequencies used for security or communication purpose etc...

Examples: Q209421 or Q4698543.

The frequency as a number of Hertz very rarely used (possibly never), and also it lacks the modulation which is a kind of qualifier of the frequency: AM (Q183755), MFSK (Q3867059), plus the location of the emitter (also a qualifier) etc...

This would allow to upload list of public frequencies such as [4] or [5] and would be interesting for radio-amateurs : these databases are often created and contributed by hobbyists. What do you think ? Thanks. Rc1959 (talk) 20:02, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't know. There is nothing inherently special about a single frequency, and they are often allocated temporarily to a service provider or operator. The temporary nature of radio frequencies makes them a bad fit for Wikidata.
In some cases their use is internationally standardized, at which point it might deserve it's own item, such as 121.5 MHz. At this point there is probably a wikipedia page about it too. Some of those old and large radio transmitters, especially those transmitting on lower than shortwave might have wikipedia pages, or at least there is a good chance they are considered notable. Officially recognized frequency bands should be notable too as they are described by serious sources.
It might be more feasible to link to an external source in the case of radio transmitters, that describes things like their frequency and modulation. If you know a good source for this you can propose it as an external identifier, see WD:PP. Infrastruktur (talk) 17:18, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
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