# Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/32

 This page is an archive. Please do not modify it. Use the current page, even to continue an old discussion.

### Number of elevators

Not done
Data type Number (not available yet) fr:Modèle:Infobox Gratte-ciel: ascenceur ; de:Vorlage:Infobox Hochhaus: Aufzüge; en:Template:Infobox Building: elevator_count buildings positive integer .
Motivation

Used in various infobox templates and would be better handled at the Wikidata level. Zolo (talk) 06:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Not done - already exists, as number of elevators (P1301). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

@Zolo:. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:48, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done
Description Address of basic WMS/WMTS/WCS/WFS services of a administrative regions. Use qualifiers to specify if service includes a type of information (e.g. just the roads, or water bodies, etc...) URL ? Add this property to administrative regions. The rank is not important just that they provide a WMS service. URLs should be copy-pastable into any GIS program and readily connect to the service. Austria (Q40) = "http://gisgba.geologie.ac.at/ArcGIS/services/karten_image/is_md_gk50/ImageServer/WMSServer?" + Qualifier to say that it is only a geologic map with at most a 1:50000 scale. If possible Source is website that lists the address. Search the web for WMS adresses if possible. -Tobias1984 (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

Not done - still showing a server error. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

### CulturaItalia ID

Template parameter TBD (I'm planning to do an external link template on it.wp) oai:[source]:[identifier] external reference probably Mix'n'Match
Motivation

CulturaItalia (Q19858649) is a project dedicated to the Italian cultural heritage, which combines the data coming from several cultural projects and transmits them to Europeana (Q234110). This would be also part of the recently started collaboration between Wikimedia Italia (Q15136611) and Istituto Centrale per il Catalogo Unico (Q3803707). Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Support. @Sannita (ICCU): how many objects you got there? If oai:culturaitalia.it: is a constant partn, shorten the ID by removing this part. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

@Vladimir Alexiev: I still don't know, I'm still trying to get the whole dataset. Unfortunately, I found out that "oai:culturaitalia.it" is not a constant part, since it defines the source the data comes from. Initially, it would probably just suffice, but there are other data sources in the database (such as Touring Club Italiano (Q1069349)), which are cited as such. Yeah, I know, it's not the way it should be, this is partly the reason why I work as a WiR at ICCU... :( --Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 12:39, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
A little update: there will be for sure 489 possible matches coming from MuseiD-Italia, for sure I will start from them. Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Support --Accurimbono (talk) 08:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)  Support--L736E (talk) 14:51, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sannita (ICCU), Vladimir Alexiev, Accurimbono, L736E:  Done CulturaItalia ID (P1949) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:56, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done
Description Numeric ID from CERL Thesaurus - Consortium of European Research Libraries. Information at [1] as well as the web search tool here. String none person, locations, corporates, organizations 11-char lowercase alphanumeric string Girolamo Cattaneo (Q20046840) → cnp00871477 regexp: cn[cilp][0-9]{8} (e.g. "cnp01234567") external reference http://thesaurus.cerl.org http://thesaurus.cerl.org/record/$1 Motivation The CERL Thesaurus files places, names, personal names and corporate names coming mainly from material printed before the second half of XIX century. The files include multilanguage forms and variant spellings for each name, as well as the authority reference sources (e.g. GND, SBN,..). Fictious names are covered as well. All major European libraries cooperate in providing the authority information, full list here. This is an identifier with continental scope (Europe). Contents are released with ODC-BY and CC-BY 2.0 licenses.L736E (talk) 18:37, 5 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Not done Duplicate of CERL Thesaurus ID (P1871). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:31, 10 June 2015 (UTC) ### religious rank Not done Description subject's level in religious hierarchy Item "rank" in en:template:infobox Christian leader, "rank" in en:template:infobox Jewish leader Persons subclass of position (Q4164871), profession (Q28640) (eg. bishop (Q29182) or cardinal (Q45722)) Joseph Ritter (Q1706916) => cardinal (Q45722) external reference, Wikipedia list article (either infobox or source) Sweet kate (talk) In a variety of religious infobox templates. Rank here is independent of the occupation or position of a person, and is more analogous to military rank (P410). Alias: rank. Sweet kate (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2014 (UTC) Weak oppose If position held (P39) is not enough, try honorific prefix (P511) and academic degree (P512).--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 23:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Hmmm. But it is not a position, honorific prefix, or academic degree. It's a rank. It does not relate to the position held or education earned. And honorific prefixes are already used in different ways for these same people — someone with religious rank cardinal (Q45722) has the honorific prefix His Eminence (Q1337757). I see that military rank (P410) was approved with no real issues, and I am unsure how this is really any different. --Sweet kate (talk) 15:47, 4 December 2014 (UTC) (See my further thoughts above below under consecration date too.) Sweet kate (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC) @Sweet kate: What's the difference beetween a rank and a position ? Positions can be hierarchicaly ordered (hence the ranking). And usually cardinals are cardinal of somewhere, just like mayors. The difference seems to be the organisation, a state or a church, that's all ... 19:13, 10 June 2015 (UTC) Support I think this is a separate semantic concept that can't be covered by existing properties. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC) Why do you think instance of (P31) can´t do the job? Meanwhile I´ve weekened my position, but I think we need a more generic concept, that can be used for military ranks as well or every other hierarchy. I tend to widen up the use of military rank (P410) and change the label from "military rank" to "rank" instead of creating a new one.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 11:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC) You wouldn't use instance of (P31) for particulars like this anymore than you'd use it to replace position held (P39) or occupation (P106) — an individual is always inherently a human, but not inherently, at their essence, a particular rank (or position or occupation). Ranks have start dates, and go in and out of being "true"/preferred. (Once you're promoted to colonel you're not a private anymore.) I'd be fine expanding military rank (P410), but I don't know if the military-knowledgeable people would have a reason to disagree? If we do that I'd want that to have a mandatory qualifier of of (P642) — a person is rank "bishop" of (P642) => the Catholic Church or rank "general" of (P642) => the US Army. (Or whatever. Really it seems like that should be mandatory with military rank (P410) anyway. Ranks only mean anything if you know what the ranking system is.) Sweet kate (talk) 18:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC) OK. I´d support to modify military rank (P410) in order to be able to use it for all kinds of hierarchy and to make of (P642) mandatory to describe what kind of hierarchy.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 13:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC) Agreed, military rank (P410) should be able to be expanded, as even if someone holds both a military and a religious rank, qualifiers can define which hierarchy each is held within. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Oppose for Catholic Church: bishop (Q29182) or cardinal (Q45722) are fonctions not ranks. — Ayack (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Wrong, a bishop is not a function. This a special ceremony to become bishop and the bishop gets some special attributes which are independent of its function. Snipre (talk) 18:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC) The mysterious of human semantic will always astonish me. This is simple: a position is something you can leave after X years, you can stop to a bishop or a carinal even once you retired. It is like a PhD or a doctor title: once you have it you can keep it all our life. For example you don't have a end tiem parameter for cardinal or bishop. Snipre (talk) 05:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC) @Snipre: Mmm I think that in france we are supposed to call a former prime minister or a president monsieur le président even after they left ... 16:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: Please read that document, chapter 9, to see how is considered a retired bishop: "L’Évêque émérite continue d’être membre du Collège épiscopal « en vertu de la consécration sacramentelle et par la communion hiérarchique entre le chef et les membres du Collège »". So he is still considered as a bishop and can act as a bishop in administrative way. He can participate to bishop conferences and can represent an episcopal conference of a country. This is not an honorific title like for civil positions but can still have interactions in the "government of Church" (see his possibility to take part to Concile if invited). I never see an old president taking part to several ministres meetings. Snipre (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2015 (UTC) • Weak oppose Other properties seems to do the job quite well, and we do not really have clear definitions of the differences. If we had we could see the similarities and see whether or not the context is enough ... for example if ⟨ bishop ⟩ instance of (P31) ⟨ catholic rank ⟩ and ⟨ the bishop ⟩ instance of (P31) ⟨ bishop ⟩ , and ⟨ the bishop ⟩ position help search ⟨ paris bishop ⟩ Q382920 search ⟨ {{{5}}} ⟩ , and ⟨ the bishop ⟩ instance of (P31) ⟨ bishop ⟩ , what's the matter, with bishop defined as catholic person ordained by others bishop, ⟨ bishop ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ human ⟩ , and ⟨ The bishop ⟩ significant event (P793) ⟨ ordination ⟩ point in time (P585) ⟨ whatever date ⟩ ordinator search ⟨ theotherbishop1 ⟩ ordinator search ⟨ theotherbishop2... ⟩ (or with an event item for its ordination) ? 19:13, 10 June 2015 (UTC) • Strong oppose It is an office like any other.. No argument is given why it should be different. GerardM (talk) 07:37, 11 June 2015 (UTC) • Not done. Consensus has not been established for a new property. Please use existing properties instead. MSGJ (talk) 12:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC) ### Database of Classical Scholars Description Database of Classical Scholars items on persons number external reference yes Motivation The Database of Classical Scholars (DBCS) is a project by Ward W. Briggs and the Center for Digital Humanities of the University of South Carolina. The DBCS provides biographical and bibliographical information on scholars from the US and the UK, but aspires to some day cover all of America and Europe. All data is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0 and therefor very useful to the Wikimedia projects. Since many of my articles are based on DBCS entries and many more articles are still to be created, it would be very useful to add this as a reference. Jonathan Groß (talk) 18:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC) P.S.: I already created a BEACON list of all the entries in the database and will add the property to all fitting WD items. Transclusion to other Wikimedia projects (with a template in the "external links" section) would be a good thing, too. Jonathan Groß (talk) 06:55, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Better move this proposal to persons page. Snipre (talk) 07:11, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Done. Jonathan Groß (talk) 08:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC) • Support but the datatype should be 'string' since the number is an identifier, not a quantity - 1.5 doesn't mean anything. Should probably be on the 'Authority control' rather than the persons page. Once it's created the info can be added to the authority control template on wikipedia. Filceolaire (talk) 08:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Alright, changed it accordingly. Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC) • Support Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC) @Jonathan Groß, Snipre, Filceolaire, Joshbaumgartner: Done Database of Classical Scholars ID (P1935) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC) ### Project Gutenberg author ID Description Author identifier at Project Gutenberg (Q22673). String Tends to be in external links on Wikipedia People, possibly groups, companies etc. Stems of Project Gutenberg author URLs David Christie Murray (Q16031468) => 25179 (resolves to http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/25179 ) External links section on Wikipedia; Project Gutenberg Possible Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Discussion Useful disambiguator; and source of open-source texts. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 29 November 2014 (UTC) • Comment: shouldn't this be "25179" in the sample? • I'd add ".org" to the name of the property as texts may be available elsewhere. --- Jura 13:43, 30 November 2014 (UTC) • Comment I have a lot of experience with PG. I have just completed a project to map all 20,000+ author names on the PG website to equivalent Wikipedia article names. Often names differ wildly so its not easy to determine that "XYZ" on PG is the same as "DFG" on Wikipedia. But I have compiled a database that is complete, about 9200 names map to Wikipedia, the rest have no Wikipedia article. The database is not based on numbers, but on names. Because PG does not make public author numbers, and they disallow robots from scraping the site to find them. So for the example above, in the PG database (available in catalog.rdf at http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Feeds) it maps to "Murray, David Christie" which can be found with the URL http://www.gutenberg.org/author/Murray,+David+Christie .. there are no author numbers in the Gutenberg catalog. Further, it is sometimes better so search on names because Gutenberg has duplicates in the database where the same person has two different accounts under slightly different (or related) names - doing a link via name thus finds them not just one. I guess this is a long story, but before this field is created and work put into, I suggest we contact PG and find out what they suggest is best going forward: using the publicly available name info found in catalog.rdf - or use the author number which is not publicly available in any database and can't be scrapped from the website and we have no idea if PG plans on keeping those numbers in the future. I don't normally log into Wikidata feel free to contact me over at en. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2015 (UTC) • Comment ps. if name strings are used instead of numbers, there will need to be a mechanism for multiple IDs since that is the case sometimes. For example multiple people share the same Wikipedia article (husband and wife authors etc) but whom each have unique PG name IDs. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC) • Comment Also.. there are multiple Project Gutenbergs. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 13:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC) • Support even tough it will be tricky to map the PG identifiers with Wikidata items --Pasleim (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2015 (UTC) • Done: Project Gutenberg author ID (P1938) MSGJ (talk) 11:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC) ### Murdered Not done Description This is a property to link murderers to their victims murderer (Q16266334) Item Wikipedia infobox parameters, if any; ex: "population" in en:template:infobox settlement human type of linked items (Q template or text), list or range of allowed values, string pattern... Johan Barger (Q742496) → Cato Mirande (Q19685470) (sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter Special:AbuseFilter/17) external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc. Should or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? (Checking other properties for consistency, collecting data, etc.) Motivation I was looking for a way to link murderers to their victims. This is the inverse of killed by (P157) Jane023 (talk) 08:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Comment last discussion: Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#killed --Pasleim (talk) 20:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC) Thanks for the link! Should I go support that one? Because I totally agree we need it. For well known murderers, it's nice to be able to link them actively to their victims and not just passively (through queries). I frankly also don't understand the objection to the inverse-property-principle, so if you could direct me there I will go oppose that one too. Thx. Jane023 (talk) 10:00, 5 May 2015 (UTC) I think, if an inverse property is needed (I have no strong opinion on this matter), the original proposal "killed" would be are more fitting inverse of "killed by" than "murdered". After all, the other property isn't called "murdered by" and people might also be killed by an executioner in countries that apply the death penalty (such as the U.S.) or in other cases which aren't considered murder by law. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC) I'd like to see wider consensus on inverse properties; they seem to me to be redundant. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC) It's indeed redundant information and users adding claims need to do the work twice. However, one big issue is that the software doesn't yet allow querying. To get for example the name of the person who was killed by Johan Barger (Q742496), you need the query claim[157:742496] but that is not yet supported by the software. Nevertheless, it looks like the development team is hard working on the query engine and therefore it seems to me a waste of resources to create now an inverse property. That said, I'm opposing this proposal. --Pasleim (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC) ### turned pro Not done Description year that an athlete gains professional status Point in time "turnedpro" in en:template:infobox tennis biography athlete (Q2066131) and its subclasses a year Andre Agassi (Q7407) → 1986 the ATP or WTA website Motivation I don't think we have a property for this, but it's useful info. --AmaryllisGardener talk 21:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion ### Location map Done: location map (P1943) (Talk and documentation) Template parameter Template:Location map (Q5625881) place maps Alabama (Q173)=>File:USA Alabama location map.svg (northwest coordinate=35.2N, 88.7W; southeast coordinate=29.9N, 84.7W); United States of America (Q30)=>File:Usa edcp location map.svg (relief map: File:Usa edcp relief location map.png; x: "50.0 + 124.03149777329222 * ((1.9694462586094064-($1 * pi / 180)) * sin(0.6010514667026994 * ($2 + 96) * pi / 180))"; y: "50.0 + 1.6155950752393982 * 124.03149777329222 * ( 0.02613325650382181 - (1.3236744353715044 - (1.9694462586094064 - ($1 * pi / 180)) * cos(0.6010514667026994 * ($2 + 96) * pi / 180)))") Yes GZWDer (talk) Discussion GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC) How does location map differ from detail map (detail map (P1621)? --Pasleim (talk) 19:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC) @GZWDer: Do you mean File:Southwark_areas.png is not useful for location map or detail map? --Pasleim (talk) 07:19, 26 April 2015 (UTC) not useful for location map, location map should not include names of districts.--GZWDer (talk) 11:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC) ### OpenStreetMap Node identifier Not done Description The ID of the node of this place/object in OpenStreetMap (Q936) String put Wikipedia infobox parameters here, if existing; ex: "population" in en:template:infobox settlement place ??? https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/$1 Agamitsudo (talk)
Discussion

Hi,

Today there is this OSM property [2] based on "relation". It would be great to have same properties for "node" and "way":

Thank you, --Agamitsudo (talk) 11:44, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

### Mapillary

Done: Mapillary ID (P1947) (Talk and documentation)
Domain Physical objects which can be photographed Polyglot (talk)
Discussion

It would be good if we could link to pictures and picture sequences which are available at Mapillary.com. Sometimes as proof/source/reference. Often times for illustration purposes. Even though the link points to 1 image, the user can then browse forward and backward to get an idea of what surrounds the object. Polyglot (talk) 10:05, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I suggest to treat that as an external (authority) ID and change the type to "string". The AuthorityControl gadget can take care of the linking. Eventually, Wikibase will be able to do that natively, I hope. -- Daniel Kinzler (WMDE) (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
@Polyglot: Please provide an example which maps a Mapillary ID to a specified item in Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Like this: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q19368857&diff=prev&oldid=200641834 ?
"Example" rewritten based on that. Filceolaire (talk) 23:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Support change type to string and use https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/$1 as formatter url -- T.seppelt (talk) 18:01, 3 May 2015 (UTC) Support useful for references --Pasleim (talk) 15:04, 15 May 2015 (UTC) As to the diff given above: reference URL (P854) should be more appropriate in references than external data available at (P1325). And in a more general vein: Do we have a way to use the zillion properties with formatter URL (P1630) also within the context of references? Wouldn't we need sub-qualifiers for that? -- Gymel (talk) 16:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC) I disagree about reference URL (P854) and external data available at (P1325). This is not suitable for use as a reference as it is crowdsourced info but it is useful for two way sharing of info (we can tell our readers where to find more photos and they can add infoboxes to their pages based on our info). A dedicated property is appropriate for that or, failing that, use external data available at (P1325). Stuff in the "reference" section is there to describe the reference so database/authority control type properties that do that are welcome in the 'reference section unless they apply to the entire referenced work, in which case they should be in the item for that work. Hope that helps. Having said all that I Support this property but I think it would be better with string or database ID datatype. Filceolaire (talk) 23:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC) ### second surname in Spanish name Description Spanish generally consist of two parts: the paternal and the maternal family name, see Spanish naming customs (Q259614). This property is for the second (or maternal) family name. Item w:Template:Spanish name and others on Template:Spanish name (Q5623839) persons surnames Gabriel García Márquez: Márquez (Q17984015), Diego Armando Maradona Franco: Franco (Q17983447) w:Template:Spanish name This can help reduce confusion around Spanish names. --- Jura 09:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC) Would this be a matronymic or a matriname? --Yair rand (talk) 04:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC) Generally, but not necessarily. The first page you link has a section on it. For a more detailed explanation, see w:Spanish naming customs. --- Jura 06:20, 11 September 2014 (UTC) Support Changed to "hispanic" which is more inclusive.--Micru (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2014 (UTC) • Oppose: Why would we think of the first word in a surname as being more family name (P734) than a second (or third or fourth) is? One can easily use family name (P734) with qualifiers like (and optionally if it is from the father's surname) for the first surname and (and optionally if it is from the mother's surname) for the second surname. --Closeapple (talk) 08:24, 25 October 2014 (UTC) • How can we query these? Are there any working samples for this? --- Jura 08:27, 25 October 2014 (UTC) • WikidataQuery CLAIM[734]{CLAIM[1545]} ought to list anything that gets one. What working samples are we looking for? --Closeapple (talk) 08:46, 26 October 2014 (UTC) • You'd need to identify items that have 1st, but not 2nd. Or items that have one that isn't marked as 1st or 2nd. Furthermore, you need to make sure that P734 keeps working for non Hispanic names. Many things that are actually easier with a distinct property. --- Jura 17:51, 26 October 2014 (UTC) • Aren't those all things that would also have to be dealt with if there is a new property? --Closeapple (talk) 04:41, 27 October 2014 (UTC) • It's quite straightforward with a new property for the second surname. You can easily use it to check for claims in combination with claims for people born in Spain or people of Spanish nationality. Besides, there is no confusions about the sequence of the surnames and the multiplicity. --- Jura 17:27, 27 October 2014 (UTC) Use 'Birth Name' or 'Name in native language' or 'Official name' to give the exact layout of the name and 'surname' with multiple values to list all the surnames (some people have more than 2). Oppose. Filceolaire (talk) 22:19, 31 October 2014 (UTC) This can't really be done with these properties. It's not a question of multiple names, but of sequence (and meaning) specific to Spanish names. --- Jura 12:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC) Jura The sequence is given in the Label or the "Birth Name". We don't need to specify this in the "family name"statement. There may be cases where you want to specify which "family name" comes from the mothers family. This is a job for a qualifier. I suggest we use named after (P138). If we have a separate property then it becomes more difficult to compile lists of people with that family name since some will use the "Family name" property and some would use this separate property. Filceolaire (talk) 13:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC) It's not "some". This applies to a specific field. Did you read the related article? --- Jura 05:08, 21 March 2015 (UTC) I did read the article. It says customs vary over time and between different spanish speaking countries. My proposal works for double barrelled surnames whatever their origin. It even works if a couple choose to put the maternal family name before the paternal family which is sometimes done by hispanic people living away from hispanic countries (so they have both surnames but the paternal name is last as English speaking immigration officials expect). Filceolaire (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2015 (UTC) • Support I have been looking for something like this to track family relationships. Also, in many Hispanic American countries, a person must have two surnames by law. Depending on the country, these are called first/second surname or paternal/maternal surname. Andreasm háblame / just talk to me 03:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • Oppose, per Closeapple. --Yair rand (talk) 03:48, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • Qualifier thingies don't work well to do that. --- Jura 04:01, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • Moreover, it is not as simple as a sorting order: both surnames do not have the same relevance. Both surnames appear in all personal documentation (passports, bank accounts, etc), but the second surname can be excluded in some contexts (informal conversations, presentation cards), which is not the case for the first surname. So, a person can choose to present him/herself by both surnames (Mario Vargas Llosa (Q39803), Gabriel García Márquez (Q5878)) or only by the first surname (César Vallejo (Q222744), Miguel Ángel Asturias Rosales (Q75603)), but never by the second surname. Andreasm háblame / just talk to me 04:23, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • Okay, so? What data would be missed by indicating a name to be a second surname as opposed to this property? --Yair rand (talk) 04:58, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • The lack thereof. --- Jura 05:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC) • Yes Andreasm, except that in some cases it is the first surname which may be omitted - this is the custom in English speaking countries where the father's surname is usually put last. Both surnames are surnames and should use the 'surname' property. To indicate which is the primary surname and which is secondary (or which is from the father and which is from the mother) is a task for a qualifier. Filceolaire (talk) 00:05, 3 June 2015 (UTC) • @Filceolaire: Are you still referring to Hispanic names? Because, as I mentioned, there is no legal way to skip the first surname for people born in a Hispanic country. As per other countries of residence, I can only tell for sure about the UK, where both surnames are maintained for all purposes, basically because that is how the name is registered on the passport. I could agree that this property is used only as a qualifier, but still it needs to be created as such. --Andreasm háblame / just talk to me 01:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC) • @Andreasmperu: My own wife is from Portugal and had three surnames. When she married me she added my surname on the end so she now has four. As she now lives in England in her general interactions only the last of these is treated like a surname with the other three treated like unusual given names. Each of my kids got one of her surnames followed by mine. Officials here in England expect the fathers surname to be at the end. People can have multiple surnames for a variety of reasons and the order can vary. Our properties needs to be flexible enough to accommodate these variations. Filceolaire (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2015 (UTC) • Comment @Micru: Can we change this back to the originally proposed label for the property? It was "Spanish name". The current label seems to confuse users who want to include Iberic and British naming conventions? --- Jura 18:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC) • @Jura1: Not such a good idea. The label "Spanish name" refers to the template Q5623839 which divides a name in first and second surname. If the solution of using ordinal numbers is not wanted, then it would be better to use the label "second surname" for this property.--Micru (talk) 21:41, 10 June 2015 (UTC) • @Micru:: I tend to agree with others that outside the naming for scheme for Spanish names, the property might not be that useful. Which is why I would use it only for Spanish ones. --- Jura 11:40, 12 June 2015 (UTC) • @Jura1: I agree with you but in Spain it is common to refer to the second surname as "second surname", to differentiate it from the first surname for which we currently have family name (P734). If it is needed to add that it refers to spanish names, then I would be happier with a label like "second surname in Spanish name".--Micru (talk) 11:52, 12 June 2015 (UTC) • Comment Is there any systematic issue if we create this property (other than that some of us wont be using it as they don't any related items anyways)? --- Jura 18:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC) • @Yair rand, Closeapple, Filceolaire, Jura1, Andreasmperu: After the discussion I have changed the property name to "second surname in Spanish name", if there are no opposes I will create the property with that label in a couple of days.--Micru (talk) 20:46, 12 June 2015 (UTC) • @Yair rand, Closeapple, Filceolaire, Jura1, Andreasmperu: Done as second family name in Spanish name (P1950).--Micru (talk) 09:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC) Sigh. I suspect this is going to wreck the genericness of the naming properties... --Yair rand (talk) 09:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC) ### East-Asian names courtesy name Done: courtesy name (P1782) (Talk and documentation) Description name bestowed upon a person at adulthood courtesy name (Q2075910) Monolingual text Q5 Kang Youwei (Q360135) -> 廣廈 art name Done: art-name (P1787) (Talk and documentation) Description name used by an artist art name (Q39646) Monolingual text Q5 Kang Youwei (Q360135) -> 長素 / 明夷 / 更生 / 西樵山人 / 游存叟 / 天游化人 posthumous name Description honorary name given after death posthumous name (Q696100) Monolingual text Q5 Emperor Taizong of Tang (Q9701) -> 文皇帝 / 文武大聖大廣孝皇帝 temple name Done: temple name (P1785) (Talk and documentation) Description name used posthumously for monarchs temple name (Q706208) Monolingual text Q5 Emperor Taizong of Tang (Q9701) -> 太宗 • Given that these names are widely used, having these dedicated properties rather than a more generic one with qualifiers may be convenient. • There is also childhood nickname (Q742466) and probably others, but they may not been so important. • en.wikipedia lists era name (Q256408) in the page about Chinese names, but it is a bit different, and I do not think it is relevant here. Eras can have their own items (and they do, see Zhenguan era (Q1042896)). • For name and surname, we have item-type properties but here the name can be whatever people want, and are used by quite many people, other by juste one person, but the list is open ended and string sounds more appropriate. • Courtesy name was already proposed by user:GZWDer at Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/12 but it was not done because we did not have monolginual strings at the time. • Could be retrieved from some Wikipedia templates, and from CBDB ID (P497) if the are no rights issues.--Zolo (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC) Can you please give some examples to clarify this proposal?--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 11:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC) @Giftzwerg 88: done. --Zolo (talk) 13:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC) Support all above proposals. —Wylve (talk) 01:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC) Support --- Jura 05:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC) @Giftzwerg 88, Wylve, Jura1:: 3/4 done: . For art name, I actually do not know if art the property should be broadened to Western-style pseudonyms (I tend to think it should). --Zolo (talk) 07:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC) I agree. We currently have pseudonym (P742), but I'm not sure if its scope is too broad. By the way, for the three properties created, should the values be in the traditional or simplified script and in which language code? —Wylve (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC) I'd say traditions characters, because it better corresponds to what was used at the time, and because one simplified characters sometimes corresponds to several traditional characters. I do not know for the language code either. Technically, I suppose it can usually be considered Classical Chinese (code: lzh), but that sounds a bit odd. Rethinking about it, maybe we should make it a simple string with no language code attached to it, but, if needed, with a qualifier for the writing system used. That would sound like a better solution for non-Chinese people. Take en:Gia Long. His temple name is apparently 世祖, but which language is that ? That is Vietnamese written in Chinese script but that can also be Chinese. --Zolo (talk) 13:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC) I think lzh would be appropriate, since other zh-XX codes imply modern Chinese and "zh" is just an ambiguous code representing all variants of Chinese. "世祖" could also be written as "Thế Tổ" in Vietnamese, so it might be a bit weird having two values for Vietnamese if the former is considered written in Vietnamese. In my opinion no one solution stands out to be the suitable one at the moment. —Wylve (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC) For Gia Long, using monolingual text, we would have: • temple name: 世祖 language: vi or whatever stand for vietnamese with Chinese script • temple name: Thế Tổ language: vi The trouble is that it is not really correct as 世祖 can be Chinese as well and Thế Tổ can be used in other languages using Roman script. I think using a "writing system" qualifier works better: A variant of this solution would be to put the alphabetical version as a qualifier of the Chinese-character version to make it clear that this is the same name written differently, not a different name. --Zolo (talk) 21:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC) @Wylve, Jura1, Giftzwerg 88:, can I recreate those properties with datatype = string (without language), and recommend using a writing system (P282) qualifier rather than indicate a language ? As explained above, I think it is actually better. It is also more consistent with pseudonym (P742). --Zolo (talk) 12:25, 23 February 2015 (UTC) I'm ambivalent about this, but I will support recreating them into string. I'm not an authority on this, but I think in the long run monolingual text and multilingual text datatypes should support a more precise ISO language scheme like ISO 639-6. The current ISO 639-1 does not include historical languages and ignores the different scripts used by the same language. —Wylve (talk) 18:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC) @Wylve: I have changed the datatype to string, with a recommended {p|282}} qualifier. courtesy name (P1782), temple name (P1785) and posthumous name (P1786). I have also created art-name (P1787), as there did not appear be really satisfying alternatives. --Zolo (talk) 08:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC) ### Religious rank rework After re-thinking through my various requests from earlier and the feedback I was given, I think all of my original questions can be answered by approving the property request religious rank and using the qualifiers of start time (P580) and conferred by (P1027). (Admins: Once religous rank is approved, the other requests can be cleared out or archived.) Sweet kate (talk) 21:28, 23 December 2014 (UTC) ### lay name Not done Description First name of clergyman. Ex. pope John Paul II - first name (secular) is Karol P1477 Multilingual text (not available yet) Q250867 Q989, Q502776 and many many more Borys Kozielski (talk) Discussion Wielu duchownych, w tym Jan Paweł II nie mają odpowiedniej do ich imion, nazwisk i nazwy świeckiej deklaracji. Borys Kozielski (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2015 (UTC) Comment are you looking for the property equivalent to religious name (Q1417657)? If you are looking for the secular (not religious) name, that would be "lay name" in English, but I think we would use birth name (P1477) for that. PKM (talk) 00:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC) pl:odwrotność religious name (Q1417657); eo: inverso religious name (Q1417657) en: reciprocal religious name (Q1417657) Marek Mazurkiewicz (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC) Comment Or given name (P735)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC) pl: nie; eo: ne; en: no Marek Mazurkiewicz (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC) @Marek Mazurkiewicz: Why not? --Yair rand (talk) 23:35, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Comment or family name (P734) Oursana (talk) 23:54, 12 March 2015 (UTC) ### McCune-Reischauer Template parameter en:template:Infobox Korean name, de:Vorlage:Koreanischer Name Person names en:template:Infobox Korean name, de:Vorlage:Koreanischer Name Maybe a bot can import the data from the Wikipedia templates. However, the English Wikipedia often is wrong about the McCune-Reischauer romanization. There is a nice tool by the Busan National University: http://roman.cs.pusan.ac.kr/input_eng.aspx . Discussion Proposed by: Christian140 (talk) I made this exemplarily for McCune-Reischauer. However, more romanizations should be considered. Not only for persons, maybe general. Movies, video games, places... See also en:Template:Infobox_East_Asian_name, en:Romanization of Russian Christian140 (talk) 11:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC) • @Christian140: Please provide an example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:06, 20 April 2015 (UTC) • Let's take the current Korean president Q138048. In her English Wikipedia article en:Park Geun-hye you can see an infobox on the left side featuring her name in Hangul (박근혜), Hanja (朴槿惠) and then Hangul romanized by the revized Romanization (Bak Geun-hye) and by McCune-Reischauer (Pak Kŭnhye). I think without these properties, a table like this wouldn't be possible anymore if the template would be generated out of Wikidata. --Christian140 (talk) 18:28, 20 April 2015 (UTC) • Support but I think maybe this should be string datatype or, if it is monolingual datatype, then what language would 'Pak Kŭnhye' be (@Christian140, Pigsonthewing:) ?Filceolaire (talk) 07:09, 22 April 2015 (UTC) • @Filceolaire:. I think it should be made like pinyin transliteration (P1721). Actually, I only wanted to raise attention for romanizations. McCune-Reischauer is widely used in academics, but in 2000, the government of South Korea made the Q498721 their official system. For example, by McCune-Reischauer, the capital is spelled Sŏul, by the revised romanization it is spelled Seoul. But there are also other systems like Yale romanizations. However, maybe it is not relevant enough... I don't think it really has a language... or Korean? --Christian140 (talk) 16:29, 23 April 2015 (UTC) Support but unsure if string or monolingual text is better --Pasleim (talk) 12:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC) 박근혜 is Korean, "Pak Kŭnhye" is a sequence of characters. But I'm not sure about that. --Pasleim (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC) If I say "Pak Kŭnhye" to you over the phone, what language is it in? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC) It doesn't have a language. It's analogous to IPA transcription (P898) isn't it? MSGJ (talk) 12:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC) ### second Not done Description second Item This property would be used to store the name of the second runner (or silver medalist) and then generate tables directly in the body of the Wikipedia article concerned. sport cyclist (Q2309784) Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) third => Alo Jakin (Q4734082) fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès yes Motivation Je prévois dans le cyclisme d'utiliser massivement les données de Wikidata pour centraliser ici le maximum de données possibles, l'objectif étant d'une part de laisser du temps aux contributeurs des petites versions linguistiques, de leur laisser la possibilité de générer des articles très rapidement, de sorte à ce qu'il ne leur reste plus qu'à rédiger, et d'autre part de centraliser au maximum la maintenance et la mise à jour. Ce chantier va être étalé tout au long de l'année 2015. Sur les articles concernant les courses cyclistes, nous associons à chaque édition le vainqueur, le deuxième et le troisième, c'est-à-dire les coureurs qui montent sur le podium. Il existe actuellement une propriété winner (P1346), déjà utilisée dans Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) et Paris-Arras Tour (Q3365097), mais il nous manque une propriété pour indiquer le deuxième et une autre pour le troisième. L'objectif étant à terme de générer les tableaux présents dans chaque article de course cycliste, comme fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès, depuis Wikidata. Le coureur arrivé deuxième et celui arrivé troisième sont également demandés dans les infobox d'étapes de courses cyclistes, telles que la 20e étape du Tour de France 2014. Cette demande pourrait permettre de faciliter le travail sur un grand nombre d'articles et dans de nombreuses langues. [Google Translate] I plan in the cycling massively used to centralize data Wikidata here the maximum possible data, with the aim firstly to allow time to contributors small versions language, they leave open the possibility of generating products rapidly, so that it does not just have to write them, and also centralize maximum maintenance and update. This project will be spread throughout the year 2015. Of the articles about cycling races, we associate with each edition the winner, the second and the third, that is to say the riders on the podium. There is currently a winner (P1346) property already used in Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) and Paris-Arras Tour (Q3365097), but we lack a property to indicate the second and one for third. The objective is ultimately to generate the tables present in all cycling races article, like fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès, since Wikidata. The second runner arrived and the third are also requested in the infobox stages of cycling races, such as 20e étape du Tour de France 2014. This application could help facilitate the work on a large number of articles and in many languages​​. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion • Support. I think you should record this with ranking (P1352) as well, as a qualifier to each cyclist, so the position of every cyclist in the race can be recorded and included in the results table. Filceolaire (talk) 23:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC) • Support. Filceolaire : utiliser la propriété ranking (P1352) est déjà prévu en qualificatif lorsque la propriété classement général demandée ci-dessus aura été créée. C'est même un élément clé de la réalisation des classements sur Wikidata. Dans cette demande que je mets en œuvre actuellement, les propriétés deuxième et troisième ont pour vocation d'être utilisées dans les infoboxes et dans le tableau du palmarès. Plus globalement ces deux propriétés serviront à indiquer les podiums dans toutes les compétitions. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC) Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Oppose use --Pasleim (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2015 (UTC) @Pasleim: You don't read the use I want : fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès : I need these properties as qualifiers to list the palmarès. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:20, 21 May 2015 (UTC) You can create the palmarès with participant (P710) and ranking (P1352). No need to store the information two times. / Tu peux créer le palmarès avec participant (P710) et ranking (P1352). Pas nécessaire de enregistrer les informations deux fois. --Pasleim (talk) 11:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC) @Pasleim: Are you sure that Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) will permit to find the infos on 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) and all of the previous editions ? Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 12:29, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Yes. Not now, but in a couple of weeks, see Wikidata:Arbitrary access. --Pasleim (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Thank you, I am sure now I take a good direction Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ### third Not done Description third Item This property would be used to store the name of the third rider (or bronze medalist ) and then generate tables directly in the body of the Wikipedia article concerned. sport cyclist (Q2309784) Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) third => Alo Jakin (Q4734082) fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès yes Motivation Voir ci-dessus. [Google Translate] See above. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Oppose use --Pasleim (talk) 21:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ### number of arrivals Not done Description number of arrivals Number (not available yet) This property would be used to indicate the number of runners who complete a cycling race of one day, or a step in the case of a stage race. sport cyclist (Q2309784) 50, 150, 200... for exemple 2015 Grand Prix de Denain (Q19249082) => 124 http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=150202 yes Motivation Voir ci-dessus. [Google Translate] See above. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Oppose. Voir ci-dessus. Le problème a été réglé, et il est désormais possible d'afficher en infobox dans la Wikipédia francophone les partants et les arrivants d'une course cycliste, comme sur fr:Paris-Roubaix espoirs 2015. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:07, 1 June 2015 (UTC) • Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC) • Support although 'number of finishers' might be better for broad use of this property for all sorts of events beyond bike races. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC) Oppose as it seems my suggestion above is indeed working. --Pasleim (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2015 (UTC) Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. ### overall leader Not done Description overall leader Item This property would be used to specify the name of a rider who is leader of the general classification at the end of a stage, this is a person who is usually different from the winner (P1346), which won the meanwhile step, or running when it is a one-day race. sport cyclist (Q2309784) Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) => Q19891048 overall leader => Ignatas Konovalovas (Q381409) fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque 2015#Étapes yes Motivation L'objectif est de remplir automatiquement le tableau listant les étapes, et de marquer la distinction entre un vainqueur d'étape et un leader du classement général, sachant qu'il s'agit parfois d'une seule et unique personne. [Google Translate] The aim is to automatically populate the table listing the steps, and mark the distinction between a stage winner and overall leader, knowing that sometimes a single person. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 16:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Weak oppose Because it seems redundant with the ranking at some point in time. It's harder to extract though, but it's probably just a matter of query. 09:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC) Oppose : Finally, my idea wad bad. Like TomT0m says, it will be possible to extract directly the first runner of the overall classification. I suggest to close this property proposal. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC) Oppose - This is a derived value, and should be calculated by the client. Each stage should have its own item, and the participants listed with their ranking and times for that stage, which will allow the client to derive who is in what position on the overall tables at the end of any particular stage. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:30, 17 June 2015 (UTC) Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:51, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ### speciality Not done Description speciality Item This property would be used to indicate the speciality of a cyclist, but could be used more generally. sport cyclist (Q2309784) cycling sprinter (Q533097) / climbing specialist (Q2380088) / puncheur (Q650309) / stage race (Q1318941) / classic cycle races (Q962393) / individual time trial (Q2266066) / Cobbled classics (Q2065446) for exemple Arnaud Démare (Q552724) => cycling sprinter (Q533097), Cobbled classics (Q2065446) Articles concernant les coureurs yes Motivation L'intérêt est d'indiquer la ou les spécialités d'un coureur cyclistes, mais il est possible de trouver d'autres applications. [Google Translate] The interest is to indicate the specialties of a bicycle racer, but it is possible to find other applications. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 13:11, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ### number of entries/articles Not done Description number of entries/articles of encyclopedia/database Number (not available yet) encyclopedia/database number>0 Wikidata (Q2013) => 97,844,966 GZWDer (talk) Discussion GZWDer (talk) 06:10, 21 January 2015 (UTC) • Support --- Jura 12:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC) • @GZWDer: I'm amazed that it doesn't seem there are any properties yet for size, extent, height, width (tried autocomplete on some item, maybe I didn't search right?), etc. So definitely some dimension properties are needed, but I think should be defined in a more general way. Eg in this case "size" or "extent" with qualifier "unit" that can be left out (in this case), or be specified as an item "entries", "records", "pages", or whatever needed. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC) Quantity with unit data type is still in development. (Happens to be one of the top priorities.) --Izno (talk) 17:16, 3 April 2015 (UTC) • Question Wouldn't this be better as a more generic "number of parts", to be used with a qualifier ("articles", "pages", "bricks", or whatever)? Unit measurements such as length and width would then be for other properties. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC) support for Andy's idea. --Pasleim (talk) 16:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC) @Pigsonthewing, Izno, Pasleim: Why not the opposite ? We already have properties for whole/part, has part or parts (P527) and part of (P361) (although it might be a good idea to split them according to the corresponding RfC) why not something like ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ composed of search ⟨ articles ⟩ quantity (P1114) ⟨ 100000 ⟩ ? We already have the properties. 16:47, 27 April 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: I see a problem with has part or parts (P527) if we want to extend it to lets say "number of users". Saying ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ has part or parts (P527) ⟨ users ⟩ quantity (P1114) ⟨ 100000 ⟩ looks strange to me. However, if we turn it around and say ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ quantity (P1114) ⟨ 100000 ⟩ of (P642) ⟨ users ⟩ it's in my opinion more natural. --Pasleim (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC) I on the other end of the line have a big problem with of (P642) personally, because it can be used everywhere and is not really well defined, plus a big problem with a main snack number: 10000 because it's meaningless as is, and it's exported alone in some Wikidata exports. Wikipedia is made of article, on the other hand, makes much more sense. As a car is made of 4 wheels, a car is made of wheels, and a car is made of 4. I actually already used this expression in Wikidada. But for the size of the community, it deserves a more specialized property anyway. Something like contributors or contributes, as contributors builds and manages the project. But we would nether say that Shakespeare is a part of Romeo and Juliet :) 06:35, 13 May 2015 (UTC) @Pigsonthewing: Per TomT0m, once you go that direction I think we already have the properties (I'm not sure those properties would correctly be used in that fashion however. It's lingering around my head as a potentially good idea but I'm not sure about specifics. --Izno (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC) • Tentative support. Still musing on Pigs's suggestion. --Izno (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC) • Support. Filceolaire (talk) 23:21, 28 April 2015 (UTC) • Oppose while nobody has a good argument against the ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ composed of search ⟨ articles ⟩ quantity (P1114) ⟨ 100000 ⟩ solution. 10:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC) To give an example, and generalisation, I used this into the integer couple (Q19841009) to express that an ordered pair of integers is made of two integers. This is a generic solution I did not really found a problem with. 10:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC) • Oppose - has part or parts (P527) with the quantity (P1114) qualifier is a cleaner solution. It also is easy to cover a work that has multiple types of parts (321 entries, 12 appendices, 3 indices, 42 tables, etc.) Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC) Not done @GZWDer, Vladimir Alexiev, Izno, Pigsonthewing, TomT0m, Joshbaumgartner: Use the alternative methods proposed.--Micru (talk) 14:08, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ### source language of given name Not done Description language this spelling of a first name or given name comes from. Of use for Wikidata:WikiProject Names. Item given name items items for languages Jean (Q4160311), female given name: source language of given name → English (Q1860) Jean (Q7521081), male given name: source language of given name → French (Q150) • Comment This is to replace P:P364 on items for given names. P364 used to have the label "language", but is now labelled "language of the original work", so it can't be used anymore and we need to find a replacement. The more general proposal above (#language.2C_except_for_works_or_persons) didn't seem to fly. --- Jura 11:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC) • Support per proposal. --- Jura 11:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC) • Question @Jura1: What's wrong with the generic "language" properties in this case ? Does not seem right to create one property for name, one other for whatever else, etc. A gender statement or/and make a statement like seems useful, however 16:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC) • I don't know. It's just that I need some sort of a property for these items. Given the new (English) label of P:P364, I can't use that anymore. --- Jura 18:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC) • BTW, I improved the presentation of the example above. --- Jura 17:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC) • Question What about native label (P1705). It can be used in any supported language instead of label, and consists both the source language and original writing form. That method is best if infobox want to show the name in original form in Wikipedia article. However, there is problem for spoken only languages, but do we need it? If yes I would prefer generic property that point for the source language of any name, no only the given one, for etymological purposes. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:49, 11 April 2015 (UTC) • Oppose. A property that is only used for given names is way too narrow. We do need a language but this isn't it. Filceolaire (talk) 17:58, 11 April 2015 (UTC) • Oppose I also think this is too narrow. Better a more general property "source language of this label".--Micru (talk) 09:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC) Not done @Jura1, TomT0m, Paweł Ziemian, Filceolaire: Too narrow, resubmit with a broader scope. --Micru (talk) 13:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ### Properties for this type Data type Property items with a subclass of (P279) statement human (Q5) => sex or gender (P21) Create constraint violation report Motivation Could help us for documentation, conceptual clarity and maintenance. The most obvious use I see would be the creation of new kinds of "constraint violation" reports. The current system is organized by property, like Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P31. It is really useful for some purposes, but leaves holes and would usefully be supplemented by a system based on the item instance of (P31) statements. For instance, if human (Q5) (or a superclass of it) has a "properties for this type: sex or gender (P21)" statement, a constraint violation report would warn us about items that are instance of humans but do not have a P21. It is not easy to do this sort of things using a property-based method like Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P21. @TomT0m, emw: for class issues, @Ivan A. Krestinin: for constraint reports. Zolo (talk) 18:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion Question Will optional properties be linked using this property? For example human (Q5) => date of death (P570). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2015 (UTC) I don't really know, but I think it should start with the most straight-forward non-optional properties. For optional properties, maybe we should have a second property, or maybe it should use qualifiers to have more flexibility. --Zolo (talk) 06:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC) Comment seems to be similar to this proposal --Pasleim (talk) 19:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC) @Pasleim: actually I am not sure to get how Wikidata:Property_proposal/Property_metadata#property is meant to work but afaik it is supposed to be used in properties, while this proposal is for a property to be used in items. --Zolo (talk) 06:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC) Yes that proposal focuses on constraints on properties but there isn't a big difference between the constraint date of birth (P569) => sex or gender (P21) and human (Q5) => sex or gender (P21) so using the same property could simplify it. --Pasleim (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC) Comment From the OWL point of view, this is (as the preceding proposal) a part of a class expression definition, more precisely an existential quantification. A class can be defined such that its instances have this property with some value. 19:47, 19 May 2015 (UTC) • Support with an alias to the OWL formulation. 19:47, 19 May 2015 (UTC) • Support Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2015 (UTC) • Question @Zolo, TomT0m:Could this property also be used with items representing templates or infoboxes? --Micru (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC) @Micru: Imho it would be a better pattern to map infoboxes with types. Then the properties for the infobox would be the same than the property for the class, so less redundancy. 10:36, 14 June 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: I think I understand what you mean, but just to be sure that it is more clear, could you please provide an example?--Micru (talk) 09:15, 15 June 2015 (UTC) Micru Done Comment Create a new render instances property, with infobox templates as domain, and with classes (or metaclasses) as range. For example, renders instances search ⟨ Q901 ⟩ . 10:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: Currently there is template has topic (P1423), is that not enough? It seems to be a bit redundant to have two properties for a similar purpose.--Micru (talk) 13:36, 15 June 2015 (UTC) @Micru:, yep, I guess we should rename this property as it's way more precise as the current label to say that the template can be applied to the instances of the object of this property than to say it's the main topic or whatever. Do you have your answer ? It seems enough to check the properties from that item, and less redundant. 14:20, 15 June 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: There is no need to change the label, you can write it in the description field if needed. The reason for leaving as it is, it is because of consistency with the other "main" properties.--Micru (talk) 18:25, 16 June 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m, Ivan A. Krestinin, Zolo, Josh Baumgartner: Done.--Micru (talk) 13:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ### Patron Done: no label (P1962) (Talk and documentation) Data type Item "mécènes" in fr:template:Infobox Artiste Michelangelo → Julius II Motivation The patron of an artist. Maybe that could be extended to people/companies subsidizing events, schools, etc. ? Zolo (talk) 19:38, 26 May 2015 (UTC) Discussion we have donated by (P1028) to use perhaps more general--Oursana (talk) 20:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC) I don't think this can really be used. "Donated by" means something like "benevolently transferred the property to" while "patron" means something like "subsidizes". The pope did not donate Michelangelo to anyone~:). --Zolo (talk) 07:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC) @Zolo, Oursana, Spinster, Joshbaumgartner, Succu, Filceolaire: Done.--Micru (talk) 13:49, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ### x Lua function of location map Not done Description see above. use as qualifier. String Template:Location map (Q5625881) place see above Yes GZWDer (talk) Discussion GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC) • If there're a universal Lua function to calculate it automatically, these two requests is not needed.--GZWDer (talk) 13:20, 6 January 2015 (UTC) • It's just a formula of (conic?) projection, which has substituted the coordinate values. It certainly can be calculated automatically. —putnik 18:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC) Not done - can be calculated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC) ### y Lua function of location map Not done Description see above. use as qualifier. String Template:Location map (Q5625881) place see above Yes GZWDer (talk) Discussion GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC) Not done - can be calculated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC) ### street key Done: street key (P1945) (Talk and documentation) Domain street (Q79007), square (Q174782) 1-4 digits (in the case of Bonn) Augustastraße (Q15677691) = 2046 http://stadtplan.bonn.de/strassenkataster.html (example for the city of Bonn) Leit (talk) Discussion The street is the lowest level of spatial attribution/allocation/relation. For localities and municipalities various identifiers already exist, but not for streets and squares. The street key should be referenced qualified by a new item for the specific street cadastra.Leit (talk) 17:15, 29 January 2014 (UTC) Comment I understand this as a kind of "generic" property: The number (or better string?) always has to be qualified by the something where the number stems from. This might be an administrative body (community or a certain administrative branch changing its name every now and then?) or an official list (instance of an official publication - but what to do when it's not published) maintained by such a body - I'm not sure which point of view works better for our purpose. -- Gymel (talk) 18:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC) I guess a property "street key" would be equivalent to (subclass of (P279)?) or a more specific form of catalog code (P528) – thus a qualifier equivalent to catalog (P972) is needed. I'd like to add that one might even consider the possibility simply to state that a certain street or square is part of the official "street cadastre" at all even when the street key is unknown or doesn't exist. Thereby one could seperate or sort out those streets and especially squares which do not have an official but only an informal name – for example a certain building can be located at the Bahnhofsvorplatz (square in front of a train station) but this is not an official adress as the square is composed of parts of other streets. If that solution was to be applied "street key" would not make sense as a property but as a qualifier to (maybe?) part of (P361) => (experimentally new item:) street cadastre of Bonn (Q15701662). I'm still looking for a suitable umbrella form for "streets and squares that can officially be adressed".--Leit (talk) 00:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC) There's another example of how it can be useful to sort out "address streets" from other ones: A building can at the same time be located at Kreisstraße XY (no address street) and at Hauptstraße (address street). Also, the address street is not necessarily completely part of the non-address street – as an example it does often occur in Germany that a Hauptstraße (main street) within the downton area is part of such a street (Federal street, Landesstraße etc.) only up until the pedestrian zone.--Leit (talk) 13:35, 2 February 2014 (UTC) • Support but should always have a 'catalog' qualifier to indicate which registry the code comes from. Filceolaire (talk) 00:06, 18 May 2015 (UTC) • Support if it is used as generic property with qualifier catalog (P972) to indicate which registry is used. --Pasleim (talk) 21:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC) • Done MSGJ (talk) 22:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC) ### Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire ID Domain Roman sites Integers Possible Motivation Reputable Lund University service, also served as linked data ( http://dare.ht.lu.se/places/20700.rdf / http://dare.ht.lu.se/places/20700.ttl ). That database already includes Wikidata IDs (6,859 at time of writing); a list of equivalences will be requested, or perhaps may be fetchable programmatically. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Done, Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire ID (P1936) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:44, 12 June 2015 (UTC) ### relief location map Template parameter Template:Location map (Q5625881) place Yes GZWDer (talk) Discussion GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC) ### Comité des travaux historiques et scientifiques Description Comité des travaux historiques et scientifiques Comité des travaux historiques et scientifiques (Q2985434) String items on artists 2 to 6 digits number (numbers from 10 to 999999) Louis Rogniat (Q19860488) to 112223 external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc. http://cths.fr/an/prosopo.php?id=$1
Motivation

The CTHS is a French learned society created in 1834 which contains a lot of informations about artists. Note there's also a different URL which is used to request information on an organization (ex : leads to nothing but leads to ROGNIAT Louis.

This time, I care about this proposal, since I use it very often. JeanBono (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Domain humans Valid Google Scholar URL stems
Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:48, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

@Filceolaire, Micru:  Done Google Scholar author ID (P1960) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:25, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

### number of children

Description number of children of the person. In cases where the full list isn't or shouldn't be added in child (P40) Number (not available yet) "children" in en:Template:Infobox officeholder, or en:Template:Infobox model person 1-2000 Adriana Lima (Q151866) → 2 WP infobox
•  Support to enable infobox conversion. --- Jura 17:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• Remarkably, 100 is an inadequate maximum; see en:List of people with the most children#Males. Also, please provide a valid example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• LOL interesting list: I changed the range ;) For samples, please see this list. Have your pick at a balanced, politically neutral, set of samples. --- Jura 21:55, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Just found it in another infobox as well => done. --- Jura 22:14, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
•  Support--Micru (talk) 22:12, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Why not just use child (P40) "unknown" however many times? --Yair rand (talk) 22:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• There's several problems I can see with that idea: There's no way to specify a precision, e.g. see the page Andy linked to, the top entry is "1000-2000". Even if you decide on an exact number to add, nobody is going to want to add the same thing tens or hundreds of times (and it would make the page really slow to load if you did). It's really hard to tell just how many times you've used a property the more times you use it. Then there's a risk that people will think that they're duplicate statements and remove them. - Nikki (talk) 00:44, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
• I like the idea to some extent: the list is rather an exception, but I'm also worried about people removing them as duplicates. Counting them isn't necessarily easy either.
When creating new properties, there is always a compromise to make between the theoretically ideal way and the practicalities of adding and maintaining and retrieving statements. Unfortunately we tend to get lots of input of the first type and rarely of the second. --- Jura 16:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
@Jura, Micru, Nikki, Yair rand: Done. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

### IPI / CAE Identifier

Not done
Description The IPI/CAE number (Interested Parties Information) is an international identification number assigned to a right holder (songwriters, publishers, etc) to uniquely identify them (sometimes there are non uniqueness cases, such as the example of Madonna). String ? Creators ? IPI = 00214251707 for Toby Gad (Q106567) the #3 Songwriter in USA. Madonna (Q1744), from my research, has a few, IPI=00128246872 and IPI=00125053706 http://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_an_ipi_cae_number http://www.ipisystem.org/SUISASITES/IPI/ipipublic.nsf/pages/index1
Motivation

Provides cross-referencing across some public music data sets and songwriter lists. It is the only internationally used identifier across all systems for Songwriters and Publishers. It is similar to ISRC for music recordings, but instead it is used to identify the creators (songwriters) themselves. Thadguidry (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Support An important cross-system identifier used in the music and media industries. Thadguidry (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

This already exists as IPI name number (P1828). - Nikki (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

not done, duplicate of IPI name number (P1828) --Pasleim (talk) 13:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Awesome, I'll use IPI name number (P1828) - Thadguidry (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

### investor

Done: investor (P1951) (Talk and documentation)
Description individuals or entities that have made a private investment in the company Item blekko (Q883722) => U.S. Venture Partners (Q17090594), CMEA Capital (Q5012877), Marc Andreessen (Q62882) Antrocent (talk)
Discussion

For firms that have received venture capital and the like. Antrocent (talk) 08:12, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Can we change the name to "investors" and expand it's use to public investors too? We probably need a qualifier property as well, to specify the percentage of the organization owned by each investor. Filceolaire (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, an 'investor' property to which we can add all notable investors would be useful. Qualifiers can come in time as appropriate datatypes are rolled out. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Done @Antrocent, Filceolaire: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:34, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

### period in years

Not done
Description period between a recurring event, e.g. elections for a parliament, council, council, a recurring sport event or award Number (not available yet) Beispiel: General council (Q1398920), parliament (Q35749), recurring sporting event (Q18608583), award (Q618779) General council (Q1398920) =>election period in years => 6 Olympic Games (Q5389) => period in years => 4 Jerg-Ratgeb Prize (Q1687646) => period in years => 4 Externe Referenzen, Listenartikel in der Wikipedia (entweder Infobox oder Quelle) Oursana (talk)
Discussion

Motivation: We need this property to express the election period and other periods Oursana (talk) 01:23, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

copied from
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/29&diff=next&oldid=201918431 which was archived by mistake

• Do we need a way to clarify cases like the U.S. House of Representatives in the U.S., where there are elections every 2 years, but the term of office is 6 years, because only 1/3 of seats are up for re-election each time? Or en:Cambridge City Council where "Elections for a third of the seats take place 3 out of every 4 years" ? -- Jheald (talk) 16:22, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
• strong yes, but first we have to install the general property for hundreds or thousands of parliaments in the world and their different election periods, because also in your example we need this property, and then use qualifier with applies to part (P518) 1/3 or 33 %--Oursana (talk) 22:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
•  Support the only question I have is the basic time unit - aren't there any elections happening every n months? Apohllo (talk) 23:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
• yes, there are elections every "n" years therefore my property proposal "election period in years" to tell us. Thanks for your support--Oursana (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
•  Weak support but I would use number datatype --Pasleim (talk) 21:45, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
•  Weak oppose I think this should wait the quantity datatype, as other stuffs (we already had a BPM property proposed to deletion). 10:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
•  Oppose to the current proposition: should be "period" with numeric datatype with unit. Snipre (talk) 17:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done Wrong datatype. Wait till "number with units".--Micru (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

### UN/LOCODE

Done: UN/LOCODE (P1937) (Talk and documentation)
Domain types of items that may bear this property Checking if the item with this property has coordinates
Motivation

Codelist mantained by an UN agency for economic and transportation business activity. It's related to the IATA code in case of a city with an airport. It's a standard in trade, for example in the logistic sector. UNECE releases two editions per year and mantaining it Wikidata could be useful for complex queries or data enrichment.

The code is made by two parts: first two letters come from ISO Alpha 2 code, the others identify the location. A "formal" description is in this datapackage I contributed The extracted latest data is in code-list csv

--Sabas88 (talk) 10:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

@Sabas88, Joshbaumgartner, Thryduulf:  Done UN/LOCODE (P1937). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

### takeoff and landing capability

Domain aircraft (Q11436) instance of (P31) → aircraft undercarriage class (Q20031543)
Motivation

Along the lines of wing configuration (P1654) and undercarriage (P1637) this is a basic characteristic of aircraft that should be reflected with its own property. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
•  Support Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:22, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
•  Comment: is it possible to already have a list of the type of takeoff and landing which can be used as value for this property ? The constraints should be described in the proposal when possible in order to foreseen some limitations. Snipre (talk) 14:30, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
•  Weak support Seem usefull, and I see no drawback yet. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

@Joshbaumgartner, Thryduulf, Snipre, Visite fortuitement prolongée:  Done takeoff and landing capability (P1956) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:42, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

### source excludes qualifier

Not done
Description qualifier which this is not a source for Property property used as a qualifier in the source's associated statement MISSING MISSING MISSING
Motivation

Certain statements have multiple sources, some of which may not actually be sources for all elements of the statement. For example, a statement might have a start date listed, but one of the sources is only about the main statement, and does not include anything about the start date. Such a source could have "source excludes qualifier: start time (P580)". --Yair rand (talk) 02:29, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
• Can't you solve that with the use of several statements using the same properties ? Snipre (talk) 08:51, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
That would make two statements … I'm not sure that's what we want unless there is a contradiction beetween the sources.
Question @Yair rand: I'm not a big fan of the idea … Why not use applies to part (P518) for the statement who owns the date ? Seems simpler overall. 14:19, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
• No response, marking as  Not done MSGJ (talk) 22:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

### BerlPap

Domain papyri, ostraca, parchment yes
Motivation

BerlPap is short for Berliner Papyrusdatenbank ('Berlin Papyri Database', though the translation is not officially used), a project by the Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection in Berlin. They have descriptions and scans of huge parts of their papyri, ostraca, and parchment collection. Many of these documents are important enough to deserve their own Wikipedia article (see example above). It would be a good idea to link the numbers from the database with a specific Property as a reference. Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
•  Support but the datatype should be 'string' since (subtracting one number from another has no meaning so they are identifiers not quantities). Filceolaire (talk) 08:10, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Alright, changed it accordingly. Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
•  Done MSGJ (talk) 22:24, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done
Description identifier of a language at the corpusdelaparole web site String languoid (Q17376908) number West Uvean (Q36837) => 97 http://corpusdelaparole.huma-num.fr/spip.php?rubrique1 http://corpusdelaparole.huma-num.fr/spip.php?article$1 Discussion Motivation The web site corpusdelaparole publish some dozens pages about languages. Include several audio records. This property could be usefull. Or not. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 15:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC) Proposé par: Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) You're not really sounding convincing. Do you intend to use this property in a project? --Pasleim (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2015 (UTC) No. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:36, 26 April 2015 (UTC) Not done, there is no point in having a property if nobody is going to do something with it. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 07:29, 23 June 2015 (UTC) ### Dyntaxa ID Done: Dyntaxa ID (P1939) (Talk and documentation) Domain Taxa number Probably GZWDer (talk) Discussion (Add your motivation for this property here.) GZWDer (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC) Could you give more detail? I looked at this site, http://www.slu.se/sv/centrumbildningar-och-projekt/artdatabanken/, but a quick look leaves me mystified. A look at https://www.dyntaxa.se/taxon/info/2000976 shows only a barebones skeleton. - Brya (talk) 17:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC) GZWDer: Any remarks? --Succu (talk) 22:07, 10 February 2015 (UTC) See sv:Mall:Dyntaxa, but it is used in few pages.--GZWDer (talk) 01:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC) I am dubious as 1) this does not appear to have original information, but is just a gathering of material from elsewhere and 2) this is a local database (this is also the case for the two proposals below), so this would start a trend to have a database for every country (and there are many countries). - Brya (talk) 05:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC) • Support I am still less than enthusiastic, but it is better than GBIF and the like, so it would not hurt. - Brya (talk) 05:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC) • OK, let's do it. Dyntaxa is used by GBIF, WoRMS has links. I'm prepared to add these IDs. Support --Succu (talk) 09:51, 8 June 2015 (UTC) • @GZWDer: Please provdie an English-language descritpion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC) I used google translate. MSGJ (talk) 14:43, 11 June 2015 (UTC) • Done MSGJ (talk) 20:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC) ### type is held by Not done Description The institution or collection which houses the type specimen/illustration of a scientific name (of a taxon) Item n/a taxon names Ichthyosaurus anningae (Q19346236) => Doncaster Museum (Q5295507) scientific literature/databases (etc) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Discussion -- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:24, 22 February 2015 (UTC) Why restrict to holotype (Q1061403)? --Succu (talk) 16:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC) Yes, that is a good question: the normal thing would be "type" (nomenclatural type). BTW: why in French? Why disregard databases? Perhaps we should do "type locality" first, as there are quite a few Wikipedia pages already reporting that. - Brya (talk) 17:28, 22 February 2015 (UTC) "French"? "disregard databases"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC) Well, "taxons" is French for "taxa". And I imagine there are more sources for this information, in particular databases. And I don't see a reason for separate properties, or qualifiers, for the several kinds of types. There (usually) is only one type, and it is in only one place, and to that location it is irrelevant what the nature of the type is. It would make more sense to have a property "nomenclatural type" referring to a type specimen (or illustration) and attach a qualifier to that, to indicate the nature of the type. But location of the type is pretty far down the list of properties I would want. I would rather have a property indicating the gender of a generic name, or indicating if a specific name/epithet is a noun or adjective. Type locality looks more desirable as well. Or, if there is interest in types, a direct link to a picture of the type (there are tens of thousands of these available). - Brya (talk) 05:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC) You are of course welcome to propose any additional properties you see fit; we're hardly likely to run out of space for them. The term "Taxons" is in the pro-forma proposal template; I'm not aware that the source parameter is required to be exhaustive. I wonder how you would distinguish paratype (Q926578), syntype (Q719822), and allotypes, from holotypes? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC) Paratypes, syntypes and allotypes are not really an issue: they are not types, but terms having "type" in the term indicating them (there are a lot such terms). Actually, syntypes are odd, they are not types under the ICNafp, but they are (more or less) under the ICZN. However, the moment a serious taxonomist looks at them they stop being types. - Brya (talk) 17:25, 23 February 2015 (UTC) I'm not averse to having a single "type specimen" (or whatever it might be called) property, if that's what "serous taxonomists" advise. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC) We could have another property for other type(s) or have one and add a qualifier, I suppose. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC) Neutral: I suppose it would not hurt to have this, but I don't see it has any priority. If we would have links to type specimens, this would become mostly superfluous. - Brya (talk) 06:00, 24 February 2015 (UTC) type is held by is superfluous. We can model this allready: 1. Create a new item, name it DONMG:1983.98, 2. add collection (P195) = Doncaster Museum (Q5295507), 3. add instance of (P31) = list of taxonomic terms that include "type" (Q3546082), 4. add taxonomic type (P427) = DONMG:1983.98 to the taxon item. What we need is a property for the type status. And we need a clear understandung how to model a Specimen or Taxon Occurrence. The new created item DONMG:1983.98 could have a bunch of other usefull information eg: • catalog number • collector • collecting date • geolocation • type for taxonname • sex • ... -- Succu (talk) 12:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC) I assume the taxonomic type (P427) = DONMG:1983.98 and perhaps the collection (P195) = Doncaster Museum (Q5295507) (a qualifier?) would be added to the taxon item. Well yes, I suppose this is possible. It would also be possible to give every specimen ever collected its own item. Given that we have some 1.9 million taxon names we could have some 1.8 million items for type specimens/illustrations. However, it looks like an immense amount of effort for only a small gain in the amount of information. Who would really want to know this? There has been only a small start in eliminating completely fictitious taxa, so data quality is far from guaranteed in what data now is present. And I imagine there are other properties to add that would be more interesting to the user of data. - Brya (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC) We have a little bit more than 500 usages of taxonomic type (P427). I do not expect a great incease using type speciemens in the near future. But we have c:Category:Type specimens too. So if someone is interested s/he could work on these. If Andy Mabbett agrees I would remodel this proposal into one for type status. --Succu (talk) 18:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC) BTW: Europeana (Q234110) has more than 75,000 images of type specimens. We can link to them via P727 (P727). --Succu (talk) 18:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC) Five hundred usages of taxonomic type (P427) is indeed very little, especially given how commonly this is included on Wikipedia's. What do you mean by "type status"? The link to Europeana (Q234110) does not lead to type specimens (there are four specimens of Schotia africana on the first page). Typing in "holotype" gives 16 results. - Brya (talk) 19:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC) type status - or however we name that property - should provide the „type of the type” eg holotype (Q1061403), lectotype (Q2439719)... --Succu (talk) 21:06, 24 February 2015 (UTC) Oh yes, that. As pointed out above we will indeed need that, as a qualifier, once we have some kind of property/structure to handle type specimens. Something like "nature of type" ("kind of type"?) looks better to me; they have the status of "name-bearing type" or "nomenclature type". - Brya (talk) 05:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC) I gave it a second thought and came to the conclusion that we don't need a new property. Have a look at the value of taxonomic type (P427) in Ichthyosaurus anningae (Q19346236), Acanthocalycium ferrarii (Q337692) (holotypes) and Cereus hexagonus (Q1055079) (an illustration as lectotype). instance of (P31) should do the job. --Succu (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC) That would work, in principle. It will then be convenient to have an "is the type of" property. -Brya (talk) 18:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC) Yep. That's the one we need. --Succu (talk) 18:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC) However, misuse seems likely. It would be appropriate for a type specimen to have "is the type of" and for an animal it would be appropriate for a type species to have "is the type of", but for a plant species it would not be appropriate to have "is the type of". - Brya (talk) 18:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC) Sry, but I do not catch your point. A type specimen acting as a nomenclature type should be linked to the taxon item. Otherwise it might be got lost. --Succu (talk) 19:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC) There is a big difference between the ICZN and the ICNafp: Under the ICZN the type of a family is a type genus, under the ICNafp the type of a family is a specimen (or illustration), and it may be indicated by referring to a type genus (the "type genus" is only an indication, not a type). Thus, there is an asymmetrical relationship (even under the ICZN there is a degree of asymmetry: a single type genus can be the type for a tribe, a subfamily, a family, a superfamily, etc) . - Brya (talk) 06:54, 26 February 2015 (UTC) We found a better solution (see above discussion): Oppose --Succu (talk) 15:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC) ### conifers.org ID Description string that identifies a page in the conifers.org website Gymnospermae (Q133712) String taxon names user:Brya Discussion useful website, not top quality (and with incomplete coverage), but still with a lot of useful information. - Brya (talk) 11:12, 5 May 2015 (UTC) Maybe such strings would be better, but this is a suggestion that should be made to the owner of the conifers.org website. He is not using them now, and without them we cannot make a link. - Brya (talk) 11:06, 22 May 2015 (UTC) ### PGCH ID Description Identifier for a chemical in the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards chemical substance (Q79529) 4-digit identifier http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry, Motivation This is a widely used identifier for hazardous chemicals in the United States. Emily Temple-Wood (NIOSH) (talk) 18:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC) • Support Quite important ID but the main use seems to be a reference for exposure and safety data. Snipre (talk) 09:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC) • Support. Filceolaire (talk) 08:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC) @Emily Temple-Wood (NIOSH), Snipre, Filceolaire: Done NIOSH Pocket Guide ID (P1931) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC) ### Foursquare venue ID Domain geographical feature (Q618123) [0-9a-f]+ Externe Referenzen Ja J2hcom Discussion Motivation. One important aspect of open data is building up a net of relations. So this should be able for foursquare (and more) too like it already is for e.g. open street map, wikipedia, freebase Oppose use website account on (P553)=Foursquare Labs, Inc. (Q51709) with qualifier website username (P554) --Pasleim (talk) 23:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC) @Pasleim: I think that would be wrong. Foursquare has user accounts which have foursquare.com/user/ URLs. The request here is for places/venues. - Nikki (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC) Weak support I probably won't use it myself, but I think the proposal seems sensible enough. I've also cleaned up the proposal a bit. - Nikki (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC) @J2hcom, Pasleim, Nikki: Done Foursquare venue ID (P1968). Per the example given, "53222db9498e16f1562c5969" is clearly not an account operated by Schlatkow (Q15923993). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:23, 26 June 2015 (UTC) ### Discogs artist ID Description Identifier for a band or person, in the Discogs database Musical performers; support personal (producers, etc) possible Motivation Significant source of data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:45, 11 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Done Discogs artist ID (P1953) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:49, 20 June 2015 (UTC) ### Discogs master ID Template parameter |master= in en:Template:Discogs master Musical & other recorded works Motivation Significant source of data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:01, 12 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Done Discogs master ID (P1954) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:54, 20 June 2015 (UTC) ### Discogs label ID Template parameter |label= in en:Template:Discogs label Record labels Motivation Significant source of data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:13, 12 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Done Discogs label ID (P1955) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:59, 20 June 2015 (UTC) ### Dizionario Biografico degli Italiani (DBI) Description Identifier/URL portion for the DBI website item on this subject. Dizionario Biografico degli Italiani (Q1128537) String "nomeurl" in w:it:Template:DBI persons quite varied, e.g. "emilio-lavagnino" and "domenico-capranica_res-de199340-87e9-11dc-8e9d-0016357eee51" Guarino Guarini (Q323281) → "guarino-guarini" Mostly matching at [3] http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/$1_(Dizionario_Biografico)/ For now only manual matching at mix'n'match and automatic import planned; may experience imports from it.wiki.
Motivation

Main authoritative biographical source of Italy, used on thousands of biographies of the "most important people" of Italian history. Useful for the biographical template used on it.wiki as well as for matching with authority files, as being done on mix'n'match.

Can be used as identifier for a subject as well as a reference for other statements. Federico Leva (BEIC) (talk) 22:21, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Done --Viscontino (talk) 08:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

### species kept

Done: species kept (P1990) (Talk and documentation)
Description species or taxa present at a zoo or other place, NOT specific animals. Item zoos, aquaria, botanical gardens, botanical collections, etc. any species or other taxons North Carolina Zoo (Q1850938) → polar bear (Q33609), Florida Aquarium (Q3074266) => pelagic thresher (Q1274522), Arboretum de la Vallée-aux-Loups (Q2859716) => Sequoiadendron giganteum (Q149851) Most zoos have a species list on their websites.
Motivation

Useful for queries if you'd like to see which/how many zoos have a certain species of animal in their possession. --AmaryllisGardener talk 22:33, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
•  Support good idea. Maybe I'll find a label that convinces me more. --- Jura 11:03, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• Maybe just "animal species in this zoo" will do? --- Jura 15:42, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• IDK, other possibilities: "species housed", "animal species housed", "resident animal species"... they're endless. --AmaryllisGardener talk 18:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
• AmaryllisGardener: How about "species kept": using "species" makes it clear that it shouldn't list individual animals even though technically it might not be en:species, using "kept" to avoid that it gets applied to geographic locations or other non-controlled environments, and skipping "zoo" or "animals" so that it can be applied to aquaria, botanical gardens or other botanical collections. --- Jura 08:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
• Sounds good.  Changed --AmaryllisGardener talk 15:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
• Thanks. I adjusted the domain as well. --- Jura 06:47, 11 July 2015 (UTC), +added a non-animal sample. --- Jura 20:27, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
• A rename to "species present" and a tweak to the description would allow use for plants, in arboretums, botanic gardens, etc. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:34, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
• I'd rather not, as "present" would work with any geographic location. --- Jura 06:47, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
•  Support seem a good idea. --Fralambert (talk) 20:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Done --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:18, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

### LPSN URL

Done: LPSN URL (P1991) (Talk and documentation)
Description URL for the website LPSN (List of Prokaryotic names with Standing in Nomenclature (Q6595107)) List of Prokaryotic names with Standing in Nomenclature (Q6595107) URL Template:Lpsn (Q14397136) prokaryotes (Q19081) Chloroflexia (Q15732012) → http://www.bacterio.net/chloroflexia.html Salmonella enterica (Q2264864) → http://www.bacterio.net/salmonella.html#enterica LPSN
Motivation

Usefull for linking to the descriptions of prokaryotes and validating taxon name (P225). For more read the introduction. Succu (talk) 15:33, 7 July 2015 (UTC) WikiProject Taxonomy has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.

Discussion
Done --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

### Plazi taxon treatment ID

Done: Plazi ID (P1992) (Talk and documentation)
Description UUID for a taxon treatment at Plazi (Q7203726) Plazi taxon treatment ID (Q20644485) String none taxa UUID Anochetus grandidieri (Q3687836) → 31F96F41-E3E0-02BD-8898-5A4F3A20E45A, which would link to http://treatment.plazi.org/id/31F96F41-E3E0-02BD-8898-5A4F3A20E45A a UUID as defined in UUID; no additional characters are allowed. http://plazi.org http://treatment.plazi.org/id/$1 Suitable for maintenance by a bot. Motivation A taxon treatment is the formally published scientific description for a specific taxonomic name, e.g. a Latin binomen for a species. They can be very rich in terms of data included, from morphological descriptions to comments on distributions to lists of observation records. Increasingly, links are provided that connect statements made in the treatments to external resources, such as DNA sequences, images, etc. In other words, at the time of publication, a treatment is the most authoritative opinion about a particular taxon (species, genus, etc.). Currently, there are 70,000 treatments available on Plazi, with plans to extend that to 1 Million treatments within the next couple of years (as per Taxonomic information exchange and copyright: the Plazi approach (Q20650433), treatments are considered data and thus do not qualify as work in a legal sense and are thus not copyrighted). Providing items about taxa with statements pointing to the relevant treatments on Plazi would help coordinate taxonomic and nomenclatural information. --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 23:57, 8 July 2015 (UTC) WikiProject Taxonomy has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. Hmm, at first I was rather thrown by the marketing phrase "taxon treatment". As I understand it, this is a project to present data on species, data gleaned from working through taxonomic papers. It looks like there is quite a bit of useful stuff gathered here (I don't know how easily accessible this may be otherwise), so in principle I am in favour. I quite dislike the name "Plazi taxon treatment ID", and this should be changed to something more descriptive: wouldn't a simple "Plazi ID" do? - Brya (talk) 05:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC) I'm fine with going for "Plazi ID" for the moment, but Plazi also has IDs for things other than treatments (namely publications, authors, and taxascientific names), so something more descriptive may become necessary somewhen down the line. --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 22:44, 9 July 2015 (UTC) Perhaps "Plazi species-ID" would be accurate enough? - Brya (talk) 05:43, 10 July 2015 (UTC) PS: what do you mean by "an ID for a taxon"? - Brya (talk) 05:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC) Fixed. --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 00:18, 11 July 2015 (UTC) The ID is not limited to species (Odontomachus). --Succu (talk) 13:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC) Well, that is only a key to species. It seems to me that it does not affect the question of how well the name fits. - Brya (talk) 16:32, 10 July 2015 (UTC) I think using "species" in the property name would fit most cases, but be misleading in some (example). What about "Plazi treatment ID"? --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 00:18, 11 July 2015 (UTC) Discussion • Support I also think "Plazi ID" fits better with our naming conventions. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:18, 9 July 2015 (UTC) • Support "Plazi ID" is shorter. I think I can make use of the Plazi Api and extract the Ids from the DwCAs. --Succu (talk) 19:16, 9 July 2015 (UTC) • Done --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:37, 12 July 2015 (UTC) ### TeX string Done: TeX string (P1993) (Talk and documentation) Description the appropriate string to show a concept in Tex or Latex string (multilingual for examples?)-invalid datatype (not in Module:i18n/datatype) ? very diverse tex commands with simple example values in them fraction (Q66055) = "\frac{numerator}{denominator}", binomial distribution (Q185547) = "\binom{n}{k}", square root (Q134237) = "\sqrt[2]{x}", circumflex (Q11175) = "\^{o}" ? tex documentation ? --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply] Discussion Notified participants of WikiProject Informatics --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:10, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Notified participants of WikiProject Informatics --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:20, 2 January 2015 (UTC) • Oppose LAtex is not a standard. Why use this kind of programming language and not another one ? Snipre (talk) 12:40, 14 January 2015 (UTC) @Snipre: I don't know if it has been standardized, but it is used were widely. And it would be a nice feature to ask Wikidata "What is the latex symbol for a vector?" and have the string returned. --Tobias1984 (talk) 07:30, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Support seems useful. @Snipre: latex is used in wikipedia articles for maths formula. Allow Wikidata to store tex code seems at least useful in this context. 22:30, 15 January 2015 (UTC) @TomT0m: Wikipedia uses lua as well: do you want to create a property for the name of the lua function describing the mathematical function ? And what's about the people using python to create bots ? And for c++, matlab,...? From a specialised point of view, you can find always an application to some data. Snipre (talk) 11:16, 21 February 2015 (UTC) @Snipre: I don't know, seems out of scope of this discussion. What I know it is it's pretty common to have a latex formula in infoboxes about a math concept. I really don't get your point. For the standardisation argument, there is reference statement that an acknoledge this is a common notation. 11:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ### Medical specialty Description The medical specialty that is most concerned with a particular medical condition medical specialty (Q930752) Item En-wiki and fr-wiki have this (I think) Medical conditions One or more specialties pneumonia (Q12192) → infectious diseases (Q16920362), pulmonology (Q203337), cataract (Q127724) → ophthalmology (Q161437), Targets should be in the p279-tree of medical specialty (Q930752) Motivation This property was proposed once before (Archived discussion). There is some renewed interest in storing this. It is now also being used in en-wiki infoboxes: en:Pneumonia. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:28, 3 July 2015 (UTC) Discussion WikiProject Medicine has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:29, 3 July 2015 (UTC) @Doc James, Kaligula, MarrickLip, Izno: Pinging participants of previous discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:29, 4 July 2015 (UTC) @Bluerasberry, Wouterstomp, WhatamIdoing, Micru: Pinging participants of previous discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:31, 4 July 2015 (UTC) Support Yes excellent idea. Will allow easier organizing of content. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 16:12, 4 July 2015 (UTC) Question There is also a study of property proposed on that page, how would that relate to this property ? I'm under the impression that infectious deseases for example are studied by the medical specialty named equally ... 17:22, 4 July 2015 (UTC) Diseases are often mainly associated with one or two medical specialties. This property would be associated with diseases, symptoms, or procedures. Not sure if this is the same as what they are proposing below. This is more what specialty generally treats disease X or does procedure Y. In other words what medical field does it belong to. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 23:21, 4 July 2015 (UTC) @Doc James: I get that but I think it's possible to generalize such relationships to other disciplines, for example if pneumonia belongs to some medical field, fish belongs to some biology field as well. The fact that it's a medical specialties is redundant because we already know that for example pneumology is a medical specialty, and that the subject is a desease. So forgetting the medical in the property definition, I think we get something very close to study of. So by parcimony, I would be to keep only the most general one, study of ... The question left for me is why would not that work ? Plus it's useful because it cross the boundaries between medical research, which is a science, with medical care, which is the practice ... 15:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC) So pneumonia would be "studied by" pulmonology? No sure how "study of" would look. This is clinical medicine which is seperate from basic research. I thus see a clearer term like "medical speciality" as useful. We plan to use this classification to organize the medical apps we are coming out with [4] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC) • Support Medical conditions are often classified by the medical specialties which study them. Commonly one specialty oversees particular diseases, in which case this kind of classification would be easy. When more than one specialty oversees a condition still there is almost always only a few at most who might be tagged here. This is a natural way of cataloging medical conditions which matches practice and the published literature. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:05, 8 July 2015 (UTC) ### Exif model Done: Exif model (P2009) (Talk and documentation) Description string as it appears in the exif generated by a camera. See Exif format#Example or #metadata on an image Exchangeable image file format (Q196465) String digital cameras Sony Alpha 550 (Q1041905) → DSLR-A550 • Makes it easier to look-up cameras in Wikidata/Wikipedia. --- Jura 10:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • If used with item datatype, then Support. String is not a good solution as it requires a lot of information to actually understand the model, its variants ... author TomT0m / talkpage 10:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC) In the sample, the item Q1041905 is for the model Sony Alpha 550. The string "DSLR-A550" is to find the model. Generally, there should be just one string per model. --- Jura 11:00, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • Support but with string datatype. The point of this proposal is that it is for making statements about cameras.Once this is done then a bit of lua magic on Commons will be able to turn an exif string into a link to the camera item on wikidata with all the info that TomT0m wants. Filceolaire (talk) 03:29, 21 July 2015 (UTC) ### Exif make Done: Exif make (P2010) (Talk and documentation) Description literal string as it appears in the exif generated by a specific digital camera model. Together with Exif model, this should identify a specific camera model. See Exif format#Example or #metadata on an image Exchangeable image file format (Q196465) String digital cameras Sony Alpha 550 (Q1041905) → SONY Needed in addition to Exif model, see previous proposal. --- Jura 10:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • <stroke> Oppose</stroke> redundant with the manufacturer of the model of camera with item datatype. ⟨ EOSXXX ⟩ manufacturer (P176) ⟨ Canon ⟩ will appear in the camera item. author talk page 10:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • It's to look-up a string as used on a specific model. This may or may not be the same as used in other models of the same manufacturer. It's very unlikely the label actually used by Wikidata in every language. --- Jura 11:06, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • @Jura1: It's another reason to create an item if the string does not identify anything (more precisely if there is several ids per manufacturer). The item can be use as a database to collect all the labels used in the exif by the manufacturer. It should be added as properties as string, for example ⟨ Sony ⟩ exif manufacturer id search ⟨ Sony ⟩ ⟨ Sony ⟩ exif manufacturer id search ⟨ SONY (whatever) ⟩ ... and as aliases to ease the lookup. It's what aliases are for. (and the same holds for the models). author talk page 13:30, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • I don't think I understand your idea, but as it seems to be theoretical, I suppose it doesn't matter. --- Jura 13:42, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • @Jura1: What ? If I know the picture was taken by Canon EOS 7D (Q66219), I know the manufacturer is Canon Inc. (Q62621) . By arbitrary access I just can show the manufacturer if needed. Exif manufacturer string is just redundant, so we don't need it for every picture, just for the camera. It's not theorical, it's just practice, we just need a WIkidata query and a exif manufacturer id with string datatype to do the lookups with no redundancy. author talk page 15:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • Sorry, but I don't get your usecase, but maybe if you formulate your own proposal, maybe it will be clearer. --- Jura 15:47, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • I don't have a usecase, I just explain hy I'm opposing. But it seems I lost myself somewhere in the discussion and got confused, in the end I thought we were speaking on properties for images :/ . See below. • Support but with a domain digital camera manufacturer. Use the manufacturer property to find the exif string from the camera model item. author talk page 16:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC) • I guess we could apply it there as well, but I'd rather see which one a model uses (Is it "OLYMPUS OPTICAL CO.,LTD" or "OLYMPUS CORPORATION" or "OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP."?). Anyways, I take it that you finally support the above proposal for exif model? --- Jura 09:30, 18 July 2015 (UTC) ### sort key Done: no label (P1964) (Talk and documentation) Description key indicating the order in which the item's label should be sorted String In en:Template:Persondata, de:Vorlage:Personendaten all strings Tim Berners-Lee (Q80) => Berners-Lee, Tim Rickie Lee Jones (Q258846) => Jones, Rickie Lee The King of Rome (Q594) => King of Rome, The Persondata Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Discussion May be used as a qualifier for name in native language (P1559); or qualified by a language. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC) Question Is there an international standard how names should be sorted? As far as I know it is extremly culture-specific how names are sorted. --Pasleim (talk) 13:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC) No idea, but we often know it, from sources, or knowledge of our own culture. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:26, 24 October 2014 (UTC) Chinese names are for sure sorted by similarity of the signs and the number of lines in the signs (quite a difiicult task to know the exact order of 2500 signs) and not like the transcriptions according to the alphabet.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 17:25, 24 October 2014 (UTC) In Europe and America usually by last name and then first name. --Crazy1880 (talk) 17:27, 24 October 2014 (UTC) See de:Hilfe:Personendaten/Name (german Help) --Crazy1880 (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2014 (UTC) Comment If it's a qualifier, string datatype would probably be sufficient. Otherwise, it might need to be a monolingual string. --- Jura 18:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC) As a librarian, I have to warn you that this is a very complex matter that can't be simply reduced to "In Europe and America usually by last name and then first name". But, rejoice: There is a standard work of reference, it's called Names of Persons and issued by the IFLA. A scanned version of the 4th edition is available as a PDF at the IFLA website. For example, in Iceland the sort order is "First name - last name" (the last name in Iceland usually being not a family name, but a patronymic - most Icelanders don't have a family name). And there are languages such as Spanish with multi-part name where the sort order also isn't obvious. "Names of Persons" helps in these matters. Gestumblindi (talk) 23:31, 27 October 2014 (UTC) Oh, and of course - I Support this proposal, as a meaningful sort order is very important. Gestumblindi (talk) 00:10, 28 October 2014 (UTC) Comment Persondata DOES NOT contain sort value for names. The |name= is supposed to be surname, firstname. About 20% of the cases, it is entered wrong, usually firstname, surname. DEFAULSORT contains the sort value in all Biography articles. Sort value does not equal surname, firstname in alot of cases. Examples: Otto von Bismark... DEFAULTSORT:Bismark, Otto persondata |name=von Bismark, Otto. Francisco da Costa Gomes... DEFAULTSORT:Gomez, Francisco persondata |name=da Costa Gomes, Francisco. Persondata name value contains names with ligatures, accents and other characters. Sort value is only to be the standard 26-letter English alphabet plus ".'. Example: Two people, one named José Márquez, the other Jose Marquez. If standard 26-letter alphabet is not used, the two names will be sorted in different spots. DEFAULTSORT values DO FOLLOW IFLA guidelines. See en:WP:NAMESORT for rules. There are two exceptions. WikiProject Iceland has said to follow western sort order for DEFAULTSORT. WikiProject Brazil and WikiProject Football has said Brazilian footballers have defaultsort set to their nickname. I have been the maintainer of DEFAULTSORT on enwiki for several years now. If you have questions, I would be the one to ask. Bgwhite (talk) 01:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC) Yes, Persondata often contains wrong name sorting, but it does try to do name sorting - otherwise, why should the sort order in "name" be "supposed to be surname, firstname" at all? That's a way of sorting, too. I'm not that familiar with English Persondata, more with German Personendaten. Maybe there are more errors in the English variant. "von Bismarck, Otto" is wrong, it should be "Bismarck, Otto von", of course. - That said, if it turns out that the sort order in Persondata is wrong too often, maybe it would be better for Wikidata to extract it from DEFAULTSORT instead of Persondata. - There may be conflicting results when extracting from different Wikipedia language versions. For example, German Wikipedia follows the IFLA guidelines for sorting Icelandic names in DEFAULTSORT resp. (in German) SORTIERUNG (so, first name first). Gestumblindi (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2014 (UTC) Comment as a librarian too, I can only agree to the need for a sorting value... at least for Person's names... but I see problems, even between latin-language names... • the sorting habits are not the same in all countries, even in countries using the same language ; therefore, different sorting values should be made for different languages... • and this will be even more complicated for russian/chinese/etc. languages... Translitteration makes it very difficult to sort names... just have a look at Tchekov's name :S - and this is for a "modern" person... imagine for medieval names which could be written differently by the same person :/ - and of course, it works backwards, for our "simple" latin names, when translitterated in... just how many non-latin languages are there in wikidata ? --Hsarrazin (talk) 15:49, 28 October 2014 (UTC) how could this be solved in wikidata... ? probably, it would be best to have each part of the name in a separate property, and then let each project assemble them to have a sortkey... Sounds reasonable (though a bit complicated). A sort key may also be valuable for other names than names of persons - e.g. work titles - you don't want to sort all book titles beginning with "The ..." under T, e.g. English Wikipedia has DEFAULTSORT:Shining, The. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:27, 31 October 2014 (UTC) of course not… :D — pardon me for laughing, but that is exactly what the library-catalog at my job does… :( for titles, if you look at wikisource fr for example… the text pages are named with the correct title, and, without adding manually a DEFAULTSORT, except in very rare cases, we have a "Classement" module, automatically applied through Title or Proofreadpage header template, so that the texts are sorted according to French rules… I don't think the same rules apply in all languages… but a similar system could perhaps be set for every language :) --Hsarrazin (talk) 01:42, 1 November 2014 (UTC) Support but it's important we indicate which system applies - names in Irish (Gaelic) are sorted by different rules (you ignore the Ó or Mac prefix so Ó Rourke and Mac Raeman are sorted together). Filceolaire (talk) 20:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC) Actually no. You do not ignore Ó or Mac per University College, Dublin and National Library of Ireland. However, I've seen both systems used. But you do hit the most important thing... indicate which system applies. If supported, there should be a group who writes out the rules. Sounds like Hsarrazin and Gestumblindi should be in the group. Sounds like German and English Wikipedia's base things from IFLA guidelines, so that is probably the best starting point. I personally favour a fight to the death. :) Bgwhite (talk) 00:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC) • Reject as proposed. This needs a multilingual field as the sortkey will differ by language. --Izno (talk) 07:52, 21 November 2014 (UTC) It depends. Libraries try to apply a standard that is on the one hand language-specific, on the other hand universal, such as in the already mentioned Names of Persons. Persons are entered according to the custom in the respective person's language, notwithstanding the language of the library's location. So, a library following "Names of Persons" will sort Spanish persons according to Spanish convention, and Icelandic persons according to Iceland convention, even if it's a library in Switzerland or in Poland. This would be a possible approach here IMHO. So we wouldn't need a "Spanish sorting" and a "Polish sorting" for the same person, but just one, the one according to the person's language. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC) The problem with that approach is that isn't how it's done on any particular wiki--each of which will and do have different sorting conventions. --Izno (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC) Support but using DEFAULTSORT as the source. I am speaking as someone who has used the metadata provided by Persondata. I gave up using the name parameter - it was just too random. Even using the name parameter to display the persons name was impossible! My final solution was to display the Wiki page name and use DEFAULTSORT for ordering. Periglio (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC) Support But I suggest to link it to some language rules. As mentioned above, there are different rules for different languages, so we need a name of type monolinugal (original name as a person would describe itself in its mother tongue) and a set of rules for a defined group of some languages and may be some other sets of rules for some other languages. We need this property if we want to replace the templates by properties of Wikidata.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 00:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC) Doubts sv.wikisource and sv.wikipedia do not have the same sorting order, so I find it difficult to find a good solution here, even if we have one order for each language. And the sorting order of Swedish names depend on their age, so the language does not give enough information. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:31, 23 March 2015 (UTC) • Actually Izno a multilingual datatype won't work for this property, although we definitely need multiple languages corresponding to different languages. This is because we need to be able to qualify each of those multiple values to say which rules that value is following. As I understand it the multilingual datatype will count as one value - you can't have different qualifiers for each language. Andy Mabbett, Gestumblindi, Hsarrazin , perhaps we should rename this as "IFLA sort key" with other properties created later as required for other rule systems? Filceolaire (talk) 17:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC) @Pigsonthewing, Pasleim, Giftzwerg 88, Innocent bystander, Crazy1880, Jura1: Done. When several sorting options exist, then qualify them with applies to part (P518).--Micru (talk) 14:20, 26 June 2015 (UTC) Like this then? @Pigsonthewing, Pasleim, Giftzwerg 88, Micru, Crazy1880, Jura1: -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:20, 26 June 2015 (UTC) I don't see how my concerns were addressed at all, and the suggested way to qualify an item does not fix the issue. Innocent introduces another non-obvious way to work this. IMO this should be restricted to IFLA sorting method because at least that's a standard way to do this. --Izno (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC) It seems usefull to me, if we use the IFLA sorting method as a default sorting method. However there might exist different sorting methods for non-western languages like Chinese.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 00:59, 27 June 2015 (UTC) Izno, I have edited the description to reflect that IFLA is the default sorting method and that other methods should be specified.--Micru (talk) 08:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC) @Micru: And what is the sort key for "Helge Åkeson" according to IFLA? -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:13, 27 June 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander: I do not know the answer to your question, however you can take a look to this IFLA publication and try to find it out on your own.--Micru (talk) 08:21, 27 June 2015 (UTC) Ok, but after I have read only a few pages in that document, it looks like the IFLA-key depends on 1 language, 2 country, 3 time, (but maybe not in that order). It then looks far to complicated to be used with the tools we have with the string datatype. We at least need a monolingual-datatype with both P17- and time-qualifiers. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:36, 27 June 2015 (UTC) It is true that you need to know those things, but you don't need to qualify it, those are statements that are already present in the item.--Micru (talk) 09:35, 27 June 2015 (UTC) Well, to me it looks more like it is based on where the library is, what langauge it is based upon and when it it can be found. It does not look like it is based on the nationality/language/age of the subject. That is why we on svwikisource use another principles than svwikipedia. Wikisource is mainly based on texts from 19th and 20th century, while Wikipedia only has texts from the 21st century. The difference is that W was introduced to our alphabet as late as 2006. I think Q was introduced around 1900. Å, Ä and Ö was introduced much earlier. Before 1521 we had for example Æ. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 11:46, 27 June 2015 (UTC) ### Revised Romanisation Description romanised Korean name following the Revised Romanisation of Korean system Revised Romanization of Korean (Q498721) String "rr" in en:Template:Infobox Korean name or en:Template:Korean anything [A-Za-z -]+ Revised Romanization of Korean (Q498721) → Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop, Park Geun-hye (Q138048) external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc. Motivation Revised Romanisation replaced McCune-Reischauer (already added as McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942)) as the official romanisation system in South Korea and is included in various templates about Korean topics. - Nikki (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion Support but only as a qualifier property to the various string and text properties (e.g. "name" properties, see previous item). Remember each item has lots of labels and these can change. Changes to labels should not affect this property. My preferred language is english so the example here says that the Romanisation for the phrase "Revised Romanization of Korean" is "Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop" which makes no sense so I have updated it. Nikki please check I got it right. Filceolaire (talk) 01:20, 27 June 2015 (UTC) No, it says the name in Korean using the Revised Romanisation system is "Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop". That's true regardless of whether the normal Korean label is displayed or not. We could make the property name something like "name in Korean using Revised Romanisation system" but I'm not sure what the point would be, since it's a lot longer, doesn't change the meaning of the property and we can already describe the meaning of a property in the property's description. This should be used just like McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942), which again you supported without any requirements for it to be a qualifier - see my question above. Where are you getting your examples from anyway? Both the Korean text and the romanisation were wrong in the example you replaced mine with. - Nikki (talk) 07:16, 27 June 2015 (UTC) If an item has more than one name (i.e. if it has any Korean aliases) then it isn't clear which name is being romanised. I recently came across an item about a writer where the English and the Italian wikipedia articles were named after different pseudonyms. That item now has a "birth name" and three "pseudonym" statements. It seems bizarre to have a statement with the name in Revised Romanisation without a statement with the corresponding name in Korean script. Otherwise you could just put the Revised Romanisation name in an alias - that's why I think the romanisation should be a qualifier to a statement giving the name in Korean script.. I agree the same comments apply to McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942). Alternatively we need to change how the Monolingual text datatype works so that we can specify the script used as well as the language. Thanks for sorting my examples. I got them from articles on English and Korean wikipedia. By the way if the Revised romanisation of "Park Geun-hye" is "Bak Geunhye" then what Romanisation system is "Park Geun-hye"? Filceolaire (talk) 02:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC) ### Created by bot Not done Description Wikipedia article created by bot Item Astraeus (Q10420904) → Lsjbot (Q17430942) with qualifier ceb, sv, war Motivation For statistical purposes it would be useful to query bot-created articles in Wikidata. E.g. the swedish bot article category is too big (1.5 million entries) to be queried by CatScan. Do you have a more elegant approach?--Kopiersperre (talk) 21:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC) Discussion I am extremely hesitant to have any properties being about the entity's Wikipedia article rather than the entity itself. If this is created, it should be "Wikipedia article created by bot", either way. --Yair rand (talk) 00:23, 1 July 2015 (UTC) Oppose Agree with Yair Rand. Nothing to do with the entity. Maybe there could be some kind of badge ? 11:25, 1 July 2015 (UTC) Oppose Agree with Yair Rand and TomT0m. This has to do with wikilink, not item. --Hsarrazin (talk) 11:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC) Oppose Nothing to do with WD. Some items can be linked to articles create by human and some by bots. This is not a feature of the concept but something to handle by each WP. Snipre (talk) 12:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC) Comment @Kopiersperre: Why don't you request a "bot generated" badge instead?--Micru (talk) 13:24, 1 July 2015 (UTC) @Micru: Ok, that's what I need! I hope I will get some resonance at meta:Talk:Wikidata/Development/Badges.--Kopiersperre (talk) 16:22, 1 July 2015 (UTC) @Kopiersperre: et al! The Swedish bot-category is removed when the article has been reviewed by ordinary users. And the category has not been added in bot-projects, when such reviews has not been considered necessary. So a "bot-created" badge would look inaccurate to me, it would rather say: "Unreviewed article". I have bot-created articles myself. But in contrast to Lsj, I have refused to create articles with a Bot-created-category. When the policy have enforced me to do so, I have refused to create articles. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:37, 7 July 2015 (UTC) Not done Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:50, 10 July 2015 (UTC) ### Twitter username Domain human (Q5), organization (Q43229) [A-Za-z0-9_]+ item's official website, Template:Twitter (Q6741634) migrate the existing uses from website account on (P553), import from Template:Twitter (Q6741634) Motivation Proposing with the aim of splitting website account on (P553) (see Wikidata:Project chat#Website_user_names)). Twitter accounts for over 80% of the existing uses of website account on (P553). It's also one of the pretty straightforward cases, since they don't have a variety of different identifiers or URL formats. - Nikki (talk) 12:25, 18 July 2015 (UTC) Discussion ### Instagram username Description this item's username on Instagram Instagram (Q209330) String human (Q5), organization (Q43229) [a-z0-9_.]+ National Aeronautics and Space Administration (Q23548) → nasa item's official website, Template:Instagram (Q13107244) https://instagram.com/$1/ migrate the existing uses from website account on (P553), import from Template:Instagram (Q13107244)
Motivation

Proposing with the aim of splitting website account on (P553) (see Wikidata:Project chat#Website_user_names)).

Like Twitter, this also seems to be pretty straightforward. Instagram usernames appear to be always lowercase. URLs with uppercase characters still work, e.g. [5] and [6] load the same page. I think we should aim to store the canonical form though, so I left uppercase letters out of the allowed values.

- Nikki (talk) 12:25, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion