Wikidata:Property proposal/catalog label

catalog label[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Place

Withdrawn

Description	name of an object in a catalog
Represents	Wikidata property related to places (Q19829914)
Data type	String
Domain	objects which are in a heritage register
Example	Aargau canton library (Q301235) old Kantonsschule (Albert Einstein House) (Q435651)
Source	Swiss heritage catalogue (overview) & dataset/s
Planned use	ingestion of 13221 elements from the Swiss inventory of culutral properties of national and regional significance
Robot and gadget jobs	planning to use Quickstatements
See also	subject named as (P1810), object named as (P1932)

Motivation

I am currently working on the ingestion of 13'000 elements from the "Swiss inventory of the protection of cultural inventory". Each of these objects has a specific name given by the Swiss Federal Office for civil protection. However, as some of the objects are already existing in Wikidata (such as Q444938 ), often the label in the catalog (eg. Altreu, mittelalterliche Stadtwüstung) does not correspond with the label in Wikidata, or both labels are relevant. Therefore, a new property is needed, which just describes the name in the catalog. Affom (talk) 11:18, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion: Support I was looking through our existing name/title/label properties and none of them seem generic enough to support this purpose, so I think a new property would be useful. I wonder if a more generic "label" as a superproperty would be helpful too? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:50, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think object named as (P1932) is generally used for this.
--- Jura 10:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support This property could be used in analogy to and as a complement of catalog code (P528) and inventory number (P217), in order to provide the (official) label used in a given catalogue or inventory. As a matter of fact, this property could be used as a complement to all authority control properties as they typically refer to some sort of inventory, catalogue, or some other sort of official or widely recognized listing. Also, we should consider assigning it to the topic "Authority Control" or "Generic" instead of "Place", for it is by no means specific to the latter. As to the proposal to create a generic "label" superproperty, I'm a bit hesitant because every item already does have a label field. The default label and alias fields do however have the shortcoming that they cannot be used with qualifiers, which means that they cannot be properly sourced or related to some specific context (e.g. time span, region, etc.). - What would be the concrete use cases for a generic "label" superproperty and what other subproperties would we need? --Beat Estermann (talk) 10:23, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why not object named as (P1932) ?
--- Jura 10:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You mean like this: Bern Minster (Q688315) (PCP reference number)? - As to the structure, I think your proposal is worth considering. As to the question whether object named as (P1932) should be used: I think rather not, as that property appears to have been created for a different purpose (to indicate particular spellings in a source). To continue in the logic set out above regarding labels of catalogues, official inventories, and authority files: We could create a property "label" (or "labelled as") and a property "alias" (or "alternatively labelled as") that could be used as qualifiers for the purpose of indicating the labels used in each of the catalogues and authority files where an item appears. This may however become a bit cumbersome when labels and/or aliases in a given authority file are modified over time, while the identifier stays the same. - We would have to double the entry for the identifier in order to preserve the label/alias information. I guess, in this case it would be more elegant to have a property "catalog label" that can take different values for various sources. --Beat Estermann (talk) 14:21, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Given how it's different, one would probably want to go with subject named as (P1810)
--- Jura 06:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Cultural heritage has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.

Notified participants of WikiProject Built heritage --Beat Estermann (talk) 17:51, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Can we use subject named as (P1810) with a qualifier <in> catalog name for this? - PKM (talk) 18:36, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment We use a qualifier official name (P1448) for property heritage designation (P1435) for such monument official name in Latvian WLM lists. --Voll (talk) 15:42, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please note that WD Labels are deficient: you got a bunch of them (nice) in many languages (great!) and pref/alt distinction (useful), but they are not claims and you can neither source nor qualify them. In contrast, the CIDOC CRM Appellation and subclasses (see below) allow all of that. CRM Identifier Assignment allows more details (eg time period when it was used), and the FRBRoo "Name Use Statement" (was it?) elaborates. AAT & other Getty vocabs have similar features http://vocab.getty.edu/doc/#Historic_Information . So while something like this is definitely needed, we need a more careful information design for it; including spelling out the overlap with conventional labels. And it definitely needs to be untied from "Swiss inventory" and from "Places" because it's generally applicable. Wikidata:WikiProject Names/Titles anyone? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

E41 - - - - - Appellation
E42 - - - - - - Identifier
E44 - - - - - - Place Appellation
E45 - - - - - - - Address
E46 - - - - - - - Section Definition
E47 - - - - - - - Spatial Coordinates
E48 - - - - - - - Place Name
E49 - - - - - - Time Appellation
E50 - - - - - - - Date
E75 - - - - - - Conceptual Object Appellation
E82 - - - - - - Actor Appellation
E51 - - - - - - Contact Point
E45 - - - - - - - Address
E35 - - - - - Title

From Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure/Art_movements#Discussion

Include subject named as (P1810) as qualifier on the external IDs, to indicate the preferred name for the thing in that database. (still called "credited as" in some languages, but moving towards "named as" to encourage wider use.) -- this makes it easier to spot potential bad matches when browsing items, or to systematically examine comparisons with queries, for particular subgroups. Jheald (talk) 16:35, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Eg AAT prefLabels are in plural, but most uses want them in singular. Eg when Getty CONA uses aat:300033618 as object type, it wants the label "painting" and not the canonic label "paintings (visual works)". See this diagram for how it could be modeled in CRM+extension --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 14:33, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thank you for all your comments. As I see the problem most of the votes see the proposal as too generic for /place or they see it as a part of a bigger problem. Because of this I started a new discussion which adresses the problem in a more generic way (and also in in the /generic proposal section ;) ) I am looking forward for your thoughts about the subject. As for Property:P1810, I don't think that this is the right property for my problem. In fact it only mentions the database in its english descriprition, where it was recently changed. In every other language just the fact about a 'person that participated in its production' is mentioned Affom (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Affom: if you are withdrawing this proposal can you mark it as status = "withdrawn" above? Thanks ArthurPSmith (talk) 02:14, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata:Property proposal/catalog label

catalog label[edit]

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