User talk:Susannaanas

Welcome to Wikidata, Susannaanas!

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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Susannaanas/Archive 1 on 2016-06-09.

Hi Susanna, I have seen that you created some of the wikidata entries of de:Immaterielles Kulturerbe in Österreich. e.g. The salute shooters of Wirling (Q113129710). This list and the Intangible cultural heritage in Austria will be part of a cooperation with the national UNESCO-commission in Austria in the context of WikiDaheim, the annual Austrian photo contest. The contest will start on July 1st. I have linked the entries in the list to the corresponding wikidata-entries (find the wikidata logo in the 5th column). I also use the wikidata entry on commons to access the description of the Intangible cultural heritage in German and English (in a bit weird way, using property described at URL (P973). What I found:

• not all rows do have an wikidata entry. Intangible cultural heritage should be complete and up-to-date on wikidata.
• property described at URL (P973) might be unstable, maybe there is a more stable way to store this information. Maybe (we at WMAT asked the local UNESCO commission, answer sill outstanding) there are urls that do not need changes when the title of the ICH changes and allow the automatic translation for supported languages (e.g. via an internal id). See c:Category:Axamer_Wampelerreiten for the marker that shows the links to both descriptions (retrieved via WD-id). I can change the marker template, in case the Wikidata storage of these references is changed.
• The German description is weird, Gesellschaftliche Praktik in Oberösterreich, aufgenommen 2011 (meaning: social practice in Upper Austria, incribed in 2011) which makes the elephant (Unesco) invisible. Anyhow, I would propose to move the information when inscribed to some start time (P580) qualifier (of heritage designation (P1435)?). I would do the same for all descriptions in all languages. Furthermore, Gesellschaftliche Praktik / social practice is more a state information (defined by unesco) than a description.
  • btw. there is a typo in social practice in Upper Austria, incribed in 2011, use Query to find all.

questions

• I feel inconvenient about using indigenous to (P2341) for the location info. Alternatively location (P276) or located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) could be used (additionally).

• I'm a bit surprised about using intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) to mark ICHs, I would have expected heritage designation (P1435) to be used for that purpose.
• I also surprised about using Inventory of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Austria (Q113085118) as value, as this is the container and not the single ICH.
• the distinction between Intangible Cultural Heritage (Q84036549) and intangible cultural heritage (Q59544) is unclear, I feel these two are the same and should be merged. Just stating not the same is not convincing.
• To sum up, I would expect to have heritage designation (P1435) = intangible cultural heritage (Q59544) as a marker on ICHs in wikidata

So there are two points. Can you help to complete the entries for Intangible cultural heritage in Austria in wikidata? And, can you think about my questions and help to create a more concise modelling in wikidata? (I'm well aware of the long lasting project and the valuable contributions by a lot of people, so I will not improve the modelling). Any help will be appreciated, would be fine if entries will be complete by 1st of July.

Feel free to move this thread to a more public page. best regards

Thank you for your comments. I will give a few responses here, and let's see how to forward.

First of all, I have prepared a guideline document for crafting these practices further Wiki Loves Living Heritage/How to import an inventory.

Comments to the first part of your message

• I would be very happy to complete the items of the inventory in Wikidata together with you. You can see how they are displayed in the Wiki Loves Living Heritage project here: Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Inventory of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Austria which is linked from this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/Inventories
• I am not convinced myself about the use of described at URL (P973). I find it important that the heritage element page referenced is in the context of the inscription statement. In the context of that statement I have considered using described at URL (P973) or URL (P2699), but that would not easily become a practice. So resorting to the url in the source statement might be the best option. I am happy to discuss your thoughts on this.
• For the descriptions, I let you find the best way forward. I am not sure if I made them but if so, feel free to change.

Questions

• The properties for describing the geographic location are a problem. They might imply origin or state control, neither of which are desirable in the context of tradition. In the project, we wish to find better recommendations than the ones I have defined.
• The property intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) is now an agreed convention for ICH, and heritage designation (P1435) is used only for tangible heritage. I had no role in creating the property, and I think using the same property could have been possible. However, the distinction makes some things easier.
• I am advocation for the use of the inventory as the value for intangible cultural heritage status (P3259). It avoids complexity that comes from creating useless designation items. It is being used across a wide range of inventories, as you can see in the project.

I am happy to discuss these in a call. Drop me an email, and let's agree a time. I am available today already.

Cheers

Hi, I have to understand your answers. I was hoping that I could find someone who is responsible and will do the work in some way. Not to do it myself, not to do it together. My task is just to integrate the intangible heritage of Austria to our yearly photo competition WikiDaheim, not to provide the data. In the presence of maintained by WikiProject (P6104) = WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage (Q112898263) stating ownership I would not dare to do so.

In the meantime I've already found your documentation m:Wiki Loves Living Heritage/How to import an inventory, about which I appreciate the existence as well as the content of - it is more guidelines to modelling than I ever expected and found in other areas. I have to understand your documentation in more detail, I'm not confident with the tools you mention, before it makes sense to talk to you, I have to dive in in more detail. So better next week.

I am ok to do the import to the point where people with more knowledge about the items and the language could do the final touch. As I work on this project currently, I can have a look at it. I will be happy to continue next week. Have a good weekend! BR, Susanna

Hi Susannaanas, thanks. I can do the final touch. An open point still is, who is responsible for the maintainance in years to come, mainly for adding new items to wikidata.

Things have evolved and we now have a double photo competition, WikiDaheim in Austria integrating the intangible heritage of Austria and your European wide competition on Wiki Loves Living Heritage, where Austria could be part of. We as the chapter WMAT are in contact with the local UNESCO commission. Both competitions do interfere, but differ in dates, rules etc. Wiki Loves Living Heritage has just begun (5th June), surprisingly. The local UNESCO commission is now confronted with both competitions and a bit confused. We will clarify our proceedings in Austria next week. Our way to go at the moment is to merge both campaigns to satisfy both competitions and to integrate the harvested media for WikiDaheim and for Wiki Loves Living Heritage.

Nevertheless, completing wikidata has to continue.

I now got ID-based urls from the local UNESCO commission, which I would like to use instead of the current verbose urls set to described at URL (P973): as an example consider Specialities of individual pharmacies (Q113129803):

• there are two verbose urls https://www.unesco.at/kultur/immaterielles-kulturerbe/oesterreichisches-verzeichnis/detail/article/apothekeneigene-hausspezialitaeten & https://www.unesco.at/en/culture/intangible-cultural-heritage/national-inventory/news-1/article/specialities-of-individual-pharmacies
• these could be replaced by: https://www.unesco.at/de/index.php?id=180&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=201 & https://www.unesco.at/en/index.php?id=180&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=201

so the only ID that has to be stored in wikidata is 201 for this particular object. Both urls can be then constructed by url-formatters. This will also allow future enhancements with additional languages. Do you have a proposal what property to use / request for that ID? I feel this is only valid for the Austrian commission and their website. Using a separate property for this ID raises three questions: What to do with existing described at URL (P973)<nowiki>? How to store the title? How to extend this concept for other countries (out of my limited scope). This ID corresponds to Guía Digital del Patrimonio Cultural de Andalucía ID (P3318). Must be a separate property for Austrian IDs to allow multiple similar IDs for the same ICH in different countries. I can make a proposal for the new property.

@indigenous to (P2341): is it better to have country of origin (P495) instead of country (P17)? having Mining culture in Bleiberg (Q113129709) with indigenous to (P2341) with value Carinthia (Q37985)? Both value still do denote adminstrative entities. In the end ICHs are organized by administrative, and not be ethnographical entities. Putting the location info to various properties makes it much more difficult to write e.g. complete sparql statements. Just my feeling and opinion. We should have both, the country (P17) (also more than 1) for primary selection (necessary for technical reasons of timeout) and specific country of origin (P495). We could have indigenous to (P2341) but alongside with optional located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) / location (P276). Nevertheless anybody could easily add these administrative properties.

rest is easy to accept. I propose to have a zoom call next week when first clarification with local UNESCO commission are done. br --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Herzi Pinki

There are indeed many questions and to me they sound solvable. Would you kindly send me email to agree on the call next week? I will start studying the data issues. I hope you find a good solution to the contest issue. The contest is arranged by the European Network of Focal Points for the UNESCO convention rather than the project, but they involve the same organizations. I regret the inconvenience it has caused you! –

Greetings! My project, the Wikidata:WikiProject IDEA would like to learn from yours. We'd like to create tabs at the top of our page like you have done on the Wikidata:WikiProject Built heritage. Any advice you can offer or tutorials/manuals you'd recommend? I'd be grateful for any tips!

~~~~

Greetings, your recent edits "adding the elements of the wiki inventory" have added some false information: country of origin (P495) as "Finland", which for the two items I have already checked, is definitely not true. Now, your edits are also adding useful and true information, but I would ask you to please refine your process so that you are not unnecessarily adding properties which must be deleted after you go through them. Thank you.

I am deeply sorry, I am about to manually edit and remove those that are incorrect.

And thank you, you seem to have fixed many of them already!

May I add one more thing: The officials whose inventory was imported, will start going through the items, looking at the descriptions, types, classes, translations, countries, locations etc. starting tomorrow. They may make mistakes and they are learning, but I have the impression that you and I already edited the most striking issues. Thank you for your patience!

Hello, an item that you have edited (and you are the only non-bot editor) is considered empty and will be deleted in 72 hours if it doesn't improve. Your automated cleaner.

Hello, an item that you have edited (and you are the only non-bot editor) is considered empty and will be deleted in 72 hours if it doesn't improve. Your automated cleaner.

Hi,

Sorry if I intrude, by looking at the pages linked to Museum of Brittany (Q3329701) (where I work right now), I stumble upon User:Susannaanas/Companies in Finland which is a strange dashboard (at least, the content is not what the title suggest). Maybe you would like to take a look at it?

Cheers,

Hi, how are you? :-)

It seems to me I was planning to make a dashboard for companies based on this but never did that. I could remove the page.

Cheers

Susanna

Hi! I managed to put together this page system and I was browsing Living Heritage from France. Have a look, let me know what you think: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/National_Inventory_of_Intangible_Cultural_Heritage_in_France

Wow, that's amazing (both for surfacing the content and for the template, I didn't knew Listeria could do that!)

For the content, I already see that I have some labels in English to add and correct.

Superb! It works as it should then :-D

Greetings, what is the point of duplicating information about intangible cultural heritage into instance of (P31) when intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) was specifically created for this purpose? After your batches today - the same information is just duplicated twice in these items.

I am sorry to cause confusion, and I will manually remove redundant ones. I am in the process of importing all intangible heritage items. Please join the project at Wikidata:WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage/Imports or follow the discussion in Wikidata:Project chat#Looking for feedback on items about intangible heritage. –

Huomaathan, että kunta ja sen (samanniminen) kuntakeskus/keskustaajama ovat kaksi eri asiaa, joille on Maanmittauslaitoksen paikannimirekisterissä kaksi eri kohdetta, joita ei tule sekoittaa keskenään, niin kuin olet useammassa tapauksessa tehnyt. Nuo kolme korjasin, mutta todennäköisesti ne eivät ole ainoat. Korjaathan itse loput.

Maanmittauslaitoksen paikannimirekisteriä ei voi käyttää lähteenä kohteen korkeudelle, koska se on aina randomisti valittu kohta laajemmasta maantieteellisestä alueesta eikä siten kerro kyseisen kohteen korkeinta kohtaa. Rekisterin ilmoittama korkeus on siis juurikin se täsmällinen karttakoordinaattien kohta joka on satuttu valitsemaan, ei suinkaan korkein kohta. Kyseinen korkeus tulisi poistaa kokonaan, sillä nyt tulee väärä tietoa artikkeleihin. <nowiki> kts esim.

Kiitos tiedosta. Jatkan pian tuon materiaalin työstämistä, ja siinä yhteydessä nuo korkeustiedot täsmentää tai poistaa ehkä kokonaan tämän perusteella.

Kerrotko vielä, mitä lähdettä käytät? Paremmat tiedot olisi hyvä saada Wikidataan.

Tuon oikean korkeuden otin [https://asiointi.maanmittauslaitos.fi/karttapaikka/?lang=fi&share=customMarker&n=6723848.51281564&e=175745.98840659423&title=Jurmon%20korkein%20kohta%2022,5-24,9%20m&desc=&zoom=10&layers=%5B%7B%22id%22:2,%22opacity%22:100%7D%5D Maanmittauslaitoksen karttapaikasta], jossa se siis pitää katsoa manuaalisesti peruskartan korkeuskäyristä. Tietääkseni Suomessa ei ole olemassa mitään tietokantaa maantieteellisten kohteiden korkeudelle (Tilastokeskuksella ja Maanmittauslaitoksella muutamia luetteloita rajauksella maakunnan/kunnan korkein kohta).

Lähetin Maanmittauslaitokselle kysymyksen. Kerron sitten mitä sieltä vastataan.

Hei! Tämä onkin jäänyt pitkäksi aikaa vastaamatta! Maanmittauslaitokselta vahvistivat sen, mitä sanoit. Käytännössä siten ne korkeustiedot ovat aika huonoja ja voitaisiin poistaa ne kaikki. Olen askarrellut Suomenlahden saarten geometrian irti merten geometriasta ja niitä voisi käyttää paikkatieto-ohjelmassa saarten korkeimman korkeuden päättelemiseen. Minulla vaan ei taida olla tälle työlle varattuna aikaa. Olisikohan @Robersilen kiinnostunut myös prosessista? Samoja muotoja voisi viedä OpenStreetMapiin, mihin taas tarvittaisiin lisää apua. Terveisin,

Dear Susannaanas,

I hope you are doing good,

I am Kholoud, a researcher at King's College London, and I work on a project as part of my PhD research, in which I have developed a personalised recommender system that suggests Wikidata items for the editors based on their past edits. I am collaborating on this project with Elena Simperl and Miaojing Shi.

I am inviting you to a task-based study that will ask you to provide your judgments about the relevance of the items suggested by our system based on your previous edits.

Participation is completely voluntary, and your cooperation will enable us to evaluate the accuracy of the recommender system in suggesting relevant items to you. We will analyse the results anonymised, and they will be published to a research venue.

The study will start in late January 2022 or early February 2022, and it should take no more than 30 minutes.

If you agree to participate in this study, please either contact me at [] or use this form https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSees9WzFXR0Vl3mHLkZCaByeFHRrBy51kBca53euq9nt3XWog/viewform?usp=sf_link

I will contact you with the link to start the study.

For more information about the study, please read this post: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Kholoudsaa

In case you have further questions or require more information, don't hesitate to contact me through my mentioned email.

Thank you for considering taking part in this research.

Regards