Shortcut: WD:PP/GEN

Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

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See also:
Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending - Properties which have been approved but which are on hold waiting for the appropriate datatype to be made available.
Wikidata:Properties for deletion - proposals for the deletion of properties.


This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property
  1. Check if the property already exists by looking at Wikidata:List of properties (manual list) and Special:AllPages.
  2. Check if the property is already pending or has been rejected.
  3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically. See WD:WikiProject Infoboxes for suggestions.
  4. Select the right datatype for the Property.
  5. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below and add it in the appropriate section.

Creating the property

  1. Creation can be done after 1 week by a property creator or an administrator.
  2. See steps when creating properties.

Add a request

This page is archived, currently at Archive 31.

To add a request, you should use this form:

=== {{TranslateThis | anchor = en
| en = PROPERTY NAME IN ENGLISH
| de = <!-- PROPERTY NAME IN German (optional) -->
| fr = <!-- PROPERTY NAME IN French (optional) -->
<!-- |xx = property names in some other languages -->
}} ===
{{Property documentation
|status                 = <!--leave this empty-->
|description            = {{TranslateThis
  | en = ...
  }}
|subject item           = <!-- item corresponding to the concept represented by the property, if applicable; example: item ORCID (Q51044) for property ORCID (P496) -->
|infobox parameter      = Wikipedia infobox parameters, if any; ex: "population" in [[:en:template:infobox settlement]]
|datatype               = put datatype here (item, string, media, coordinate, monolingual text, multilingual text, time, URL, number)
|domain                 = types of items that may bear this property
|allowed values         = type of linked items (Q template or text), list or range of allowed values, string pattern...
|source                 = external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
|example                = {{Q|1}} → {{Q|2}}
|formatter URL          = 
|filter                 = (sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter [[Special:AbuseFilter/17]])
|robot and gadget jobs  = Should or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? (Checking other properties for consistency, collecting data, etc.)
}}

;Motivation

(Add your motivation for this property here.) ~~~~

;{{int:Talk}}

For a list of infobox parameters, you might want to use table format:

{{List of properties/Header}}

{{List of properties/Row|id=
|title          = audio
|type           = media
|qualifier      =
|description    = Commons sound file
|example-subject= Q187 <!-- Il Canto degli Italiani -->
|example-object = Inno di Mameli instrumental.ogg
}}

</table>

For blank forms, see Property documentation and List of properties/Row


Generic properties[edit]

sort key[edit]

   Done: P1964
sortkey
key indicating the order in which the item's label should be sorted. If different from IFLA sorting method, then qualify language or sorting method with "applies to part" (P518)
Description key indicating the order in which the item's label should be sorted
Data type String
Template parameter In en:Template:Persondata, de:Vorlage:Personendaten
Domain all
Allowed values strings
Example


Source Persondata (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Proposed by Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits
Discussion

May be used as a qualifier for name in native language (P1559); or qualified by a language. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Pictogram voting question.svg Question Is there an international standard how names should be sorted? As far as I know it is extremly culture-specific how names are sorted. --Pasleim (talk) 13:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
No idea, but we often know it, from sources, or knowledge of our own culture. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:26, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Chinese names are for sure sorted by similarity of the signs and the number of lines in the signs (quite a difiicult task to know the exact order of 2500 signs) and not like the transcriptions according to the alphabet.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 17:25, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
In Europe and America usually by last name and then first name. --Crazy1880 (talk) 17:27, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
See de:Hilfe:Personendaten/Name (german Help) --Crazy1880 (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment If it's a qualifier, string datatype would probably be sufficient. Otherwise, it might need to be a monolingual string. --- Jura 18:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

As a librarian, I have to warn you that this is a very complex matter that can't be simply reduced to "In Europe and America usually by last name and then first name". But, rejoice: There is a standard work of reference, it's called Names of Persons and issued by the IFLA. A scanned version of the 4th edition is available as a PDF at the IFLA website. For example, in Iceland the sort order is "First name - last name" (the last name in Iceland usually being not a family name, but a patronymic - most Icelanders don't have a family name). And there are languages such as Spanish with multi-part name where the sort order also isn't obvious. "Names of Persons" helps in these matters. Gestumblindi (talk) 23:31, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and of course - I Symbol support vote.svg Support this proposal, as a meaningful sort order is very important. Gestumblindi (talk) 00:10, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Persondata DOES NOT contain sort value for names. The |name= is supposed to be surname, firstname. About 20% of the cases, it is entered wrong, usually firstname, surname. DEFAULSORT contains the sort value in all Biography articles. Sort value does not equal surname, firstname in alot of cases.

Examples:
Otto von Bismark... DEFAULTSORT:Bismark, Otto   persondata |name=von Bismark, Otto.
Francisco da Costa Gomes... DEFAULTSORT:Gomez, Francisco   persondata |name=da Costa Gomes, Francisco.

Persondata name value contains names with ligatures, accents and other characters. Sort value is only to be the standard 26-letter English alphabet plus ".'.

Example:
Two people, one named José Márquez, the other Jose Marquez. If standard 26-letter alphabet is not used, the two names will be sorted in different spots.

DEFAULTSORT values DO FOLLOW IFLA guidelines. See en:WP:NAMESORT for rules. There are two exceptions. WikiProject Iceland has said to follow western sort order for DEFAULTSORT. WikiProject Brazil and WikiProject Football has said Brazilian footballers have defaultsort set to their nickname.

I have been the maintainer of DEFAULTSORT on enwiki for several years now. If you have questions, I would be the one to ask. Bgwhite (talk) 01:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Persondata often contains wrong name sorting, but it does try to do name sorting - otherwise, why should the sort order in "name" be "supposed to be surname, firstname" at all? That's a way of sorting, too. I'm not that familiar with English Persondata, more with German Personendaten. Maybe there are more errors in the English variant. "von Bismarck, Otto" is wrong, it should be "Bismarck, Otto von", of course. - That said, if it turns out that the sort order in Persondata is wrong too often, maybe it would be better for Wikidata to extract it from DEFAULTSORT instead of Persondata. - There may be conflicting results when extracting from different Wikipedia language versions. For example, German Wikipedia follows the IFLA guidelines for sorting Icelandic names in DEFAULTSORT resp. (in German) SORTIERUNG (so, first name first). Gestumblindi (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment as a librarian too, I can only agree to the need for a sorting value... at least for Person's names...

but I see problems, even between latin-language names...
  • the sorting habits are not the same in all countries, even in countries using the same language ; therefore, different sorting values should be made for different languages...
  • and this will be even more complicated for russian/chinese/etc. languages... Translitteration makes it very difficult to sort names... just have a look at Tchekov's name :S - and this is for a "modern" person... imagine for medieval names which could be written differently by the same person :/ - and of course, it works backwards, for our "simple" latin names, when translitterated in... just how many non-latin languages are there in wikidata ? --Hsarrazin (talk) 15:49, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
how could this be solved in wikidata... ? probably, it would be best to have each part of the name in a separate property, and then let each project assemble them to have a sortkey...
Sounds reasonable (though a bit complicated). A sort key may also be valuable for other names than names of persons - e.g. work titles - you don't want to sort all book titles beginning with "The ..." under T, e.g. English Wikipedia has DEFAULTSORT:Shining, The. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:27, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
of course not… :D — pardon me for laughing, but that is exactly what the library-catalog at my job does… :(
for titles, if you look at wikisource fr for example… the text pages are named with the correct title, and, without adding manually a DEFAULTSORT, except in very rare cases, we have a "Classement" module, automatically applied through Title or Proofreadpage header template, so that the texts are sorted according to French rules… I don't think the same rules apply in all languages… but a similar system could perhaps be set for every language :) --Hsarrazin (talk) 01:42, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support but it's important we indicate which system applies - names in Irish (Gaelic) are sorted by different rules (you ignore the Ó or Mac prefix so Ó Rourke and Mac Raeman are sorted together). Filceolaire (talk) 20:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Actually no. You do not ignore Ó or Mac per University College, Dublin and National Library of Ireland. However, I've seen both systems used. But you do hit the most important thing... indicate which system applies. If supported, there should be a group who writes out the rules. Sounds like Hsarrazin and Gestumblindi should be in the group. Sounds like German and English Wikipedia's base things from IFLA guidelines, so that is probably the best starting point. I personally favour a fight to the death. :) Bgwhite (talk) 00:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Reject as proposed. This needs a multilingual field as the sortkey will differ by language. --Izno (talk) 07:52, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
It depends. Libraries try to apply a standard that is on the one hand language-specific, on the other hand universal, such as in the already mentioned Names of Persons. Persons are entered according to the custom in the respective person's language, notwithstanding the language of the library's location. So, a library following "Names of Persons" will sort Spanish persons according to Spanish convention, and Icelandic persons according to Iceland convention, even if it's a library in Switzerland or in Poland. This would be a possible approach here IMHO. So we wouldn't need a "Spanish sorting" and a "Polish sorting" for the same person, but just one, the one according to the person's language. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
The problem with that approach is that isn't how it's done on any particular wiki--each of which will and do have different sorting conventions. --Izno (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support but using DEFAULTSORT as the source. I am speaking as someone who has used the metadata provided by Persondata. I gave up using the name parameter - it was just too random. Even using the name parameter to display the persons name was impossible! My final solution was to display the Wiki page name and use DEFAULTSORT for ordering. Periglio (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support But I suggest to link it to some language rules. As mentioned above, there are different rules for different languages, so we need a name of type monolinugal (original name as a person would describe itself in its mother tongue) and a set of rules for a defined group of some languages and may be some other sets of rules for some other languages. We need this property if we want to replace the templates by properties of Wikidata.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 00:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Doubts sv.wikisource and sv.wikipedia do not have the same sorting order, so I find it difficult to find a good solution here, even if we have one order for each language. And the sorting order of Swedish names depend on their age, so the language does not give enough information. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:31, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually Izno a multilingual datatype won't work for this property, although we definitely need multiple languages corresponding to different languages. This is because we need to be able to qualify each of those multiple values to say which rules that value is following. As I understand it the multilingual datatype will count as one value - you can't have different qualifiers for each language. Andy Mabbett, Gestumblindi, Hsarrazin , perhaps we should rename this as "IFLA sort key" with other properties created later as required for other rule systems? Filceolaire (talk) 17:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing, Pasleim, Giftzwerg 88, Innocent bystander, Crazy1880, Jura1: Done. When several sorting options exist, then qualify them with applies to part (P518).--Micru (talk) 14:20, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Like this then? @Pigsonthewing, Pasleim, Giftzwerg 88, Micru, Crazy1880, Jura1: -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:20, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't see how my concerns were addressed at all, and the suggested way to qualify an item does not fix the issue. Innocent introduces another non-obvious way to work this.

@Pigsonthewing, Pasleim, Giftzwerg 88, Micru, Crazy1880, Jura1:.

IMO this should be restricted to IFLA sorting method because at least that's a standard way to do this. --Izno (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

It seems usefull to me, if we use the IFLA sorting method as a default sorting method. However there might exist different sorting methods for non-western languages like Chinese.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 00:59, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Izno, I have edited the description to reflect that IFLA is the default sorting method and that other methods should be specified.--Micru (talk) 08:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
@Micru: And what is the sort key for "Helge Åkeson" according to IFLA? -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:13, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
@Innocent bystander: I do not know the answer to your question, however you can take a look to this IFLA publication and try to find it out on your own.--Micru (talk) 08:21, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Ok, but after I have read only a few pages in that document, it looks like the IFLA-key depends on 1 language, 2 country, 3 time, (but maybe not in that order). It then looks far to complicated to be used with the tools we have with the string datatype. We at least need a monolingual-datatype with both P17- and time-qualifiers. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 08:36, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
It is true that you need to know those things, but you don't need to qualify it, those are statements that are already present in the item.--Micru (talk) 09:35, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, to me it looks more like it is based on where the library is, what langauge it is based upon and when it it can be found. It does not look like it is based on the nationality/language/age of the subject. That is why we on svwikisource use another principles than svwikipedia. Wikisource is mainly based on texts from 19th and 20th century, while Wikipedia only has texts from the 21st century. The difference is that W was introduced to our alphabet as late as 2006. I think Q was introduced around 1900. Å, Ä and Ö was introduced much earlier. Before 1521 we had for example Æ. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 11:46, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

language, except for works or persons[edit]

   In progress
Description language of item. Use more specific properties language of work (or name) (P407) or original language of work (P364) for works and native language (P103) or languages spoken or published (P1412) for persons.
Data type Item
Domain any item that has or uses a language except works or persons, like names, words, phrases, proverbs.
Allowed values items for languages
Example


Jean (Q4160311), female given name → English (Q1860)
Jean (Q7521081), male given name → French (Q150)
Robot and gadget jobs no persons and no works of any kind allowed.
Discussion
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment P:P364 used to have the label "language". To match more closely its description, it's now labelled "language of the original work". This leaves a gap for cases like the above. --- Jura 04:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --- Jura 04:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg SupportPictogram voting comment.svg Comment One day we will have also wictionary linked, so every word must have a language. Not only names, but also radio/tv stations broadcast in languages. However names are a bad example, because names tend to move between languages, sometimes unchanged over centuries and sometimes more or less modified.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 05:14, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment I changed the domain to "any". --- Jura 05:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
In that discussion User:Snipre came up with the idea to merge language of work (or name) (P407) and original language of work (P364) into a "language" property which would no longer be restricted to works. --Pasleim (talk) 12:56, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't see that discussion going anywhere, nor is the merge proposal formulated that way. The result is that we still haven't sorted out this issue. --- Jura 13:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
@Jura1, Pigsonthewing: Agree, it might take some time until there is a consensus so I won't oppose the creation of this property. --Pasleim (talk) 09:21, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Time2wait.svg On hold per Pasleim. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:02, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

  • That other two properties have just no impact on this. --- Jura 12:05, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
    • @Pigsonthewing: I removed "on hold" as Pasleim changed is comment. --- Jura 15:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
    @Jura: Please try to think to that possibility: language of work (or name) (P407) and original language of work (P364) merged into a new property called "language" ? Why do we have to have one property "language of work" and one property "language of name" ? Snipre (talk) 13:57, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
    The reason for this request is that someone changed the label of the P364. --- Jura 15:46, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. The specialised properties are worth having but it is good to have this more general property for cases where those don't apply. Filceolaire (talk) 17:55, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. We don't need specific properties, even two is too much. Single "language" property is enough. P364 shall be merged with P407 to such single property. -- Vlsergey (talk) 16:08, 26 June 2015 (UTC)


(Disjoint)UnionOf (or any better name)[edit]

   In progress
Description every instance of this class is an instance of at least/exactly one class in that list of classes
Data type Item
Domain list, or metaclass
Allowed values class list, or metaclass list (resp)
Example
< nucleon (Q102165) (View with Reasonator) > Disjoint union of search < proton (Q2294) (View with Reasonator) >
        together with search < neutron (Q2348) (View with Reasonator) >
Format and edit filter validation (sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter Special:AbuseFilter/17)
Robot and gadget jobs check consistency of the instantiation relation wrt. these statements
Note
This proposal is a proposal for Two properties:
  • UnionOf
  • DisjointUnionOf
(to get the definition of the first, take the text in green, resp in red for the second) plus one new qualifier :
  • Together With.
Motivation

Sometime users use has part (P527) as a kind of inverse properties of subclass of (P279). This is semantically wrong as has part if for composition relationship of physical objects (or classes of those type) that are parts of other (bigger) physical objects (or classes of those whole objects), per Help:BMP, and NOT to give a list of the subclasses, like in the example give who was modeled as has part.

There would not be a case if we were just talking of an inverse property of subclass of (P279), but we're not. Here we want to say that the set of all instances of a set of classes (here proton and neutrons), when regrouped, is exactly the set of instances of the superclass (here nucleon). No instance of nucleon is neither a proton nor a neutron.

Example : let Academics be the set of person who teaches, studies or research in a faculty.
let teacher, student, researcher (be the class of persons who teaches, rep. studies and research in a faculty.
< Academics > Union of search < Teacher >
        Together with search < Students >
        together with search < Researcher >
means that any student, researcher and teacher is an academic, that no person who is neither student, researcher nor teacher is an academic. But a student can also teach, as a researcher.

With the disjoint variant (in green), the constraint is added that an instance of nucleon is an instance of one and only one of the subclasses. Said differently, that the set of subclasses is a Partition of a set (Q381060) (View with Reasonator) of the subject class.

< nucleon (Q102165) (View with Reasonator) > Disjoint union of search < proton (Q2294) (View with Reasonator) >
        together with search < neutron (Q2348) (View with Reasonator) >
as a nucleon is a proton or a neutron, but not both.

So the motivation is double :

  • give an alternative to those who want to put a list of subclasses of a class (don't do that, this is incorrect, do that instead)
  • improve our modeling expression power.

Note : the qualifier Together With is here because the set of subclasses must exist in the same statement. This is because if we gave the list of classes in a list of statement, we could not express that there is no other subclass needed to cover all the instances of the superclass, as Wikidata follows the open world assumption (Q851949) (View with Reasonator) (This means we could even use two statement to model two alternative divisions of the class in subclasses for all of its instances). For example let's just add a subclass to nucleon, I don't know highly energetic nucleon. It's a subclass of nucleon, but it would not make sense to add it into

< nucleon (Q102165) (View with Reasonator) > Disjoint union of search < proton (Q2294) (View with Reasonator) >
        together with search < neutron (Q2348) (View with Reasonator) >

because either a proton or a neutron could be highly energetical. It's a different classification axis. TomT0m (talk) 15:26, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Note2 : DO NOT USE if the class list is not close, of course, that is if there is instances of the superclass that is not an instance of any of the child classes, or if it's not sure whether or not.

They are inspired by owl:unionOf and owl:unionOf and owl:disjointunionof (and alldisjointclasses but only because I did not realize there was actually disjointunionof /o\). TomT0m (talk) 19:08, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Still:

  • "(sample: 7..."
  • "qnd"
  • line break before "wol:disjointunionof"
  • How many properties do you propose?
  • I dont see why "Disjoint" is mentionned at all.
  • "of this class .... of that list of classes" Which and which?
  • In everyday language, "UnionOf" seems (to me) related with has part (P527), not with classes.
  • If this proposal is about class partition, why not name it "class partition" or "subclass partition"?
  • If this proposal is not about class partition, why mentionning Partition of a set (Q381060)?

Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Visite fortuitement prolongée: should be better now. this and that is a common way to speak of resp the subject and the object of the claim. The names are the name given in owl as the links can show, but other are OK if people find this more clear. Union in math is the operation on set, for sure. I don't know about common english

There was a bug in Template:Color. I fixed it. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 14:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Still:

  • No slash inside "au moins une une et une seule".
  • Why "list, or metaclass" and not "Classes", like in Property talk:P279?
  • Why "class list, or metaclass list (resp)" and not "Classes", like in Property talk:P279?
  • "(sample: 7..."
  • "instanèiation"
  • Why not a semantic list after "This proposal is a proposal for"?
  • "too statement"
  • What is the difference between subclass property and "UnionOf" property?
    • Please give examples.
  • What is the difference between "UnionOf" property and "DisjointUnionOf" property?
    • Please give examples.
  • Please give an example where "Together With" qualifier property is required.

Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 14:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, the proposal is much better now. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 17:46, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
« Why "list, or metaclass" and not "Classes" » → I'll edit the Property documentation myself if the properties are created. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Per Help:metaclass_for an explanation. A class is a set of indvidual. two classes unionned gives another set of individuals, another class. A class of class unioned with a class of class gives a class of class, similarly. But a class should not be unioned with a metaclass to avoid some ontological problems. TomT0m (talk) 20:38, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure if I get the "Together with" qualifier point. Qualifiers are also open to be extended, so I don't see why having all values within a statement makes it more close than having one statement for each value. Qualifiers are extendable as statements are, there is no way to prohibit that. Therefore, I'm also not sure if we should actually introduce such limited classes, as that is contradictory to the open system of Wikidata. -- Bene* talk 21:08, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
    Good question. I take the opinion of Markus here : see this post on the ML. I think this makes sense for closed lists, it's an easy way to express that, way easier than for example having a sequence of items with followed by (P156)/follows (P155) terminated by
    <  > followed by search < no value Help >
    . TomT0m (talk) 09:23, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support "Disjoint Union of" property
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support "Union of" property

*Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose "together with" qualifier property. Instead of listing some subclasses with a qualifier you should just add more values to the main property.

Nucleon
Disjoint union of:proton
 :neutron
OK? Filceolaire (talk) 18:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC) Ammended as discussion below. Sorry it took me so long to get back. Filceolaire (talk) 18:04, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
What you are suggesting, in the writing style that I prefer, is:
  • nucleon => proton, neutron
TomT0m want to allow several, distinct, subclass lists, like having in the same item both:
This way, it can not work. TomT0m need a change of Wikidata data structure, or a trick. "together with" is a trick. Of course, since TomT0m has not show an actual example of several, distinct, subclass lists, I do no support "together with", and you are free to oppose it. But I hope that with my explanation, you understand the need. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
It's not a trick, it's a use of qualifiers to express close lists. TomT0m (talk)
@Visite fortuitement prolongée: A real life example : elements can be divided by for example : Monoisotopic element (Q3588104) (View with Reasonator) and non monoisotopic one. They can be divided by element groups such as noble gas (Q19609) (View with Reasonator)metalloid (Q19596) (View with Reasonator) some of these covers the set of chemical elements taken together. Some overlaps with others. TomT0m (talk) 20:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Filceolaire: No. This must be expressed in one statement. It make sense to say that Paul is a son of Jack. It also make sense that Jenny is a daughter of Jack. But from these two satements, we can't say if Jack have more children per open world assumption (Q851949) (View with Reasonator) which is reasonable in Wikidatas case. With disjoint union this does not make sense to say « nucleon union of proton » and « nucleon union of neutron », no more than in english. This has to be « nucleon union of proton and neutron ». Plus this allows us to say the list is close (see the discussion with Bene* above and the linked mail for this.) Without a qualifier this is as good as «has subclass». TomT0m (talk) 19:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
« Without a qualifier this is as good as «has subclass». » → Not exactly. "nucleon => UnionOf => proton, neutron, antiproton, antineutron" say more than "nucleon => subclass => proton, neutron, antiproton, antineutron"; because it say that the classes list is complete ("closed"). The difference is that without "Together With" qualifier, an item can have only 1 classes list, so we could no tell that... wait, what was this real example of you? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
No, the meaning argument that a set of two sentence is not the same as one sentence still holds. But you're kind of tiring me. If you really don't want to be convinced follow the links to the owl properties, you'll see they uses one compound statements, not several statements with the same properties, for good reasons. TomT0m (talk) 20:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Visite fortuitement prolongée, Filceolaire: Any new question or vote ? It's been a while. TomT0m (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Maybe you should move "(to get the definition [...] the second)" just after "a proposal for Two properties" ? Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose I never thought I would O in a proposal of mine the solution without the qualifier. Without it it's as good as has_subclass, as explained above. Of course I Symbol support vote.svg Support the original proposal :) TomT0m (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment If only 2 properties are created, which work like other properties (thus allowing only one set of subclasses per item), then the tools Template:Tree (see Talk:Q309336) and http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/tree.html?lang=en&q=Q17205&rp=279 will work. With TomT0m's trick, those tools will likely not work. PS: They do not work. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
    @Visite fortuitement prolongée: That's nonsense, really. First, it's not meant to ba an inverse property of subclass of. Second, I am one of the authors of this template and I can make your example work in no time, no problems, it's not hard. But the real solution is to wait for the devteam to implement simple queries to compute inverse relations, then we will be able to adapt the template properly. TomT0m (talk) 20:39, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
    Ok, I reformulate: those tools do not work without adaptation. If you can easily adapt then, then it's good. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:52, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

coined by[edit]

   In progress
Description To indicate the person (or maybe sometimes the organisation / group of people) who has used a specific word for a concept for the first time.
Data type Item
Domain any concept, usually a newly 'named' term, movement...
Allowed values human (Q5)
Example Action painting (Q217213)Harold Rosenberg (Q959768); relational art (Q2566149)Nicolas Bourriaud (Q1979892), Stipule (Q304216)Carl Linnæus (Q1043)
Source external reference
Motivation

I've encountered many cases where a specific word for a concept was first used or coined by someone. No property exists for this yet. Quite usual in the case of artistic and cultural movement, see examples above. discoverer or inventor (P61) doesn't seem correct here. Spinster (talk) 19:05, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
@Spinster: BA candidate.svg Weak oppose Mmm Wikidata is not about terms but about concepts, and is mutilingual, so this does not fits well. This could maybe be applied as a qualifier to properties like official name or likes, but definitely not to items. I don't understand why discoverer or inventor (P61) would not fit. TomT0m (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
See the examples above. You are correct that I should not say these are terms - they ARE concepts, regardless of their translation. I updated the proposal to reflect this. For instance, the Finnish Wikipedia article about action painting, Toimintamaalaus, mentions Harold Rosenberg. Movements and concepts like Action painting (Q217213) and relational art (Q2566149) and Stipule (Q304216) have definitely not been discovered or invented by those people (usually critics, researchers). They were "seen" and named by them for the first time, that's a different thing. Spinster (talk) 19:26, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment More than 6,000 mentions of the exact phrase 'coined by' on enwp. Spinster (talk) 19:26, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
@Spinster: The person that created a new name for that concept ... did not invent that term ? There still is a confusion beetween the concept and the term :). A man can discover or describe a concept, like a taxon, then create a name for this new concept. Actually we already have a property taxon author in taxonomy I could very well see generalized. But I think a construction
< the stuff > name (or original name) (or late name) search < thename >
        author search < the person >
is pretty good, it does not talk of the concept, just of the name (plus the inventor of a treasure, or a planet, for example, obviously did not create them, hence the name of the property). I don't see a need for this property. Statements with this pattern will just have to be labelled coined by in infoboxes since it's a common way to express this in english. TomT0m (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

@Spinster: Stipule (Q304216) was coined by Carl Linnæus (Q1043). I have some doubts. --Succu (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose, refers to terms instead of the actual entities. This is Wiktionary's domain. --Yair rand (talk) 10:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support though I think 'first described by' might be a better name, or should, at least, be an alias. Filceolaire (talk) 18:12, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Perhaps this should be a qualifier on a mono-lingual text property? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:28, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

hanja[edit]

   In progress
Description Korean name written using hanja
Represents Hanja (Q485619)
Data type String
Template parameter "hanja" in en:Template:Infobox Korean name or en:Template:Korean
Domain anything
Allowed values \p{Han}+
Example Park Geun-hye (Q138048) → 朴槿惠 London (Q84)<native label (P1705):"London"><hanja:"런던 — 한국어">
Source external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Motivation

The hanja version of the name is included in infobox/sidebar templates in many articles about Korean topics (e.g. in the infobox on en:Pyongyang, just below the infobox on en:Park_Geun-hye), in brackets after the name in the opening sentence (e.g. ko: 평양직할시) or as a column in tables (e.g. en:List of cities in South Korea). - Nikki (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose use as proposed but Symbol support vote.svg Support as a qualifier to string and text properties in other languages. The hanja version of the name for Pyongyang should be given by official name (P1448) and/or native label (P1705) and/or name in native language (P1559), not by this property (but use the "Romanisation" qualifier to give the Latin script version of each of these names). This property could however be used to give the hanja name for "London" in a qualifier to the official name (P1448) property for use in Korean language infoboxes. I have changed the example as my version of this property. Nikki please check and confirm you copy. Filceolaire (talk) 01:01, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
@Filceolaire: Your example is incorrect, that's not en:Hanja, it's en:Hangul (the way Korean is normally written). This property would be very similar to name in kana (P1814) (which you supported without requiring it to only be used as a qualifier - has something changed since then?) - like Japanese is not primarily written in kana, Korean is not normally primarily written in hanja, and like kana is often included in name templates, in brackets in opening sentences, etc, hanja is too, so it should be allowed anywhere that name in kana (P1814) is allowed, i.e. as a qualifier if it's the hanja version of a Korean name in a statement using properties like native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559) and official name (P1448) or as its own statement if it refers to the hanja version of a Korean label (since labels can't have qualifiers themselves). - Nikki (talk) 06:40, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
You raise a good point Nikki. Thinking about it some more. There is a difference between a property called "name in Hanja" and a property called "hanja".
"name in Hanja" could be a property specifically for names. It is similar to all the other multiple "name" properties we have and it can be used as a primary property just like official name (P1448), native label (P1705) or name in native language (P1559). This is based on the assumption that if an item has multiple names then the hanja name just another, additional name independent of the other names.
If, on the other hand, each of the multiple names needs a it's own hanja version then it seems the "hanja" is an alternative way of writing those names rather than being a separate name (and should be used as a qualifier). Which case applies? Filceolaire (talk) 02:31, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Revised Romanisation[edit]

   In progress
Description romanised Korean name following the Revised Romanisation of Korean system
Represents Revised Romanization of Korean (Q498721)
Data type String
Template parameter "rr" in en:Template:Infobox Korean name or en:Template:Korean
Domain anything
Allowed values [A-Za-z -]+
Example Revised Romanization of Korean (Q498721) → Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop, Park Geun-hye (Q138048)<name in native language (P1559):"박근혜"><Revised Romanisation:Bak Geunhye>
Source external reference, Wikipedia list article, etc.
Motivation

Revised Romanisation replaced McCune-Reischauer (already added as McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942)) as the official romanisation system in South Korea and is included in various templates about Korean topics. - Nikki (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Symbol support vote.svg Support but only as a qualifier property to the various string and text properties (e.g. "name" properties, see previous item). Remember each item has lots of labels and these can change. Changes to labels should not affect this property. My preferred language is english so the example here says that the Romanisation for the phrase "Revised Romanization of Korean" is "Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop" which makes no sense so I have updated it. Nikki please check I got it right. Filceolaire (talk) 01:20, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
No, it says the name in Korean using the Revised Romanisation system is "Gugeoui Romaja Pyogibeop". That's true regardless of whether the normal Korean label is displayed or not. We could make the property name something like "name in Korean using Revised Romanisation system" but I'm not sure what the point would be, since it's a lot longer, doesn't change the meaning of the property and we can already describe the meaning of a property in the property's description. This should be used just like McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942), which again you supported without any requirements for it to be a qualifier - see my question above. Where are you getting your examples from anyway? Both the Korean text and the romanisation were wrong in the example you replaced mine with. - Nikki (talk) 07:16, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
If an item has more than one name (i.e. if it has any Korean aliases) then it isn't clear which name is being romanised. I recently came across an item about a writer where the English and the Italian wikipedia articles were named after different pseudonyms. That item now has a "birth name" and three "pseudonym" statements. It seems bizarre to have a statement with the name in Revised Romanisation without a statement with the corresponding name in Korean script. Otherwise you could just put the Revised Romanisation name in an alias - that's why I think the romanisation should be a qualifier to a statement giving the name in Korean script.. I agree the same comments apply to McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942).
Alternatively we need to change how the Monolingual text datatype works so that we can specify the script used as well as the language.
Thanks for sorting my examples. I got them from articles on English and Korean wikipedia. By the way if the Revised romanisation of "Park Geun-hye" is "Bak Geunhye" then what Romanisation system is "Park Geun-hye"? Filceolaire (talk) 02:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Transliteration or transcription[edit]

   In progress
Description Label from native language or value from official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559)+family name (P734) etc. translated to readable form in other language including specified transformation method with mandatory qualifier determination method (P459)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (Q147276)
Allowed values any text
Example Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky (Q7315): Пётр Ильич Чайковский → (ISO 9 (Q913336)) Pëtr Ilʹič Čajkovskij
Tokyo Prefecture (Q1490): 東京都 → (Hepburn romanization (Q667558)) Tōkyō-to
Georgian (Q8108): ქართული ენა → (Georgian national system of romanization (Q1448216)) kartuli ena
Pythagoras (Q10261): Πυθαγόρας → (ancient trb.) Pythagoras; (ancient trl.) Puthagóras; (modern trb.) Pitagoras; (modern trl.) Pythagóras
Format and edit filter validation mandatory qualifier determination method (P459) set to value, which defines standard of transliteration (Q134550) or transcription (Q207714)
Robot and gadget jobs possible, quite easy for some transliterations
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. This might be a standard way to provide transliteration or transcription of the name between many languages. The examples above are biased because they show romanization only, but other direction is also possible. Unfortunately I am not able to provide any such example. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 17:50, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
We have some romanisation-properties now, like "pinyin transliteration (P1721)", so there is maybe a way to solve even other systems. But if we are to follow the pattern here, we need one property for each kind of romanisation? -- Innocent bystander (talk) 18:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
If the conversion is some kind of international standard like Hepburn romanization (Q667558) or ISO 9 (Q913336) it can be promoted to separate property. However, there are cases where such translation is country/language specific and generating N×N - N (country/language) properties is ridiculous. One generic property should serve for all relatively rarely used cases. If some of them became popular it can be always promoted later to dedicated property and converted by bot. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 19:10, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
One item can have multiple names, even in one language (via aliases). To be clear as to which name you are transliterating this property needs to be a qualifier to one of the other name properties. Unfortunately if this property is a qualifier then it can't have it's own qualifiers to tell you which transliteration system was used. This indicates that we need multiple properties - one for each transliteration system. Fortunately we don't need to transliterate all names since for most items, in most languages, the transliterated name will be in the label. I think. Filceolaire (talk) 03:00, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
I am not so sure about that! The Swedish transcription of for example Russian names are not always in the label, but rather the German or English, since those transcriptions are sometimes more spread in common media. And I would prefer to see a monolingual datatype in those cases, i.e. when the transcription is langauage dependant. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:56, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
It is not unusual that there exist a few methods for transcription from one language to another. I agree with argument that it should be a qualifier, but with requirement for auxiliary and mandatory qualifier it is impossible to implement this. This is the weakness point in my proposal. I think I should withdraw the proposal and introduce set of new proposals for specific transliterations, what was mentioned above. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 13:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Hepburn romanization[edit]

   In progress
Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Japanese
Represents Hepburn romanization (Q667558)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (Q147276) in Japanese
Allowed values any text
Example Tokyo Prefecture (Q1490): 東京都 → (Hepburn romanization (Q667558)) Tōkyō-to
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements for languages using latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Georgian national system of romanization[edit]

   In progress
Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Georgian
Represents Georgian national system of romanization (Q1448216)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (Q147276) in Georgian
Allowed values any text
Example Georgian (Q8108): ქართული ენა → (Georgian national system of romanization (Q1448216)) kartuli ena
Robot and gadget jobs possible, there is simple character lookup table
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements for languages using latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

ISO 9[edit]

   In progress
Description Property used as qualifier in official name (P1448), native label (P1705), name in native language (P1559), family name (P734) etc if it is presented in Cyrillic or Latin script. Conversion works in both directions, that is Cyrillic text can be transliterated to Latin text and Latin text can be assigned with corresponding Cyrillic text.
Represents ISO 9 (Q913336)
Data type String
Template parameter title or subtitle (design specific)
Domain proper noun (Q147276) in Cyrillic or Latin script
Allowed values any text
Example Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky (Q7315): Пётр Ильич Чайковский → (ISO 9 (Q913336)) Pëtr Ilʹič Čajkovskij
Robot and gadget jobs possible, there is simple character lookup table
Motivation

Property might be useful for automatic generating readable descriptions from statements between languages with Cyrillic and Latin scripts if object name is not available in any readable script in user language. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

construct has conceptual overlap with[edit]

   In progress
Description measures of the strength, or assessments of presence, of these two constructs correlate
Data type Item
Example surgency (Q7646185)introversion and extraversion (Q127588), grit (Q4453370)Conscientiousness (Q1307067)
Motivation

I want this for my work with personality traits. There are many named traits and many of them are highly similar to one-another. Antrocent (talk) 06:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Not a good idea to start a proposal saying "I want this for my work". A property is not a personal tool but a general tool which have to be useful for everyone. Snipre (talk) 07:48, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Created by bot[edit]

   In progress
Description Wikipedia article created by bot
Data type Item
Example Astraeus (Q10420904)Lsjbot (Q17430942) with qualifier ceb, sv, war
Motivation

For statistical purposes it would be useful to query bot-created articles in Wikidata. E.g. the swedish bot article category is too big (1.5 million entries) to be queried by CatScan. Do you have a more elegant approach?--Kopiersperre (talk) 21:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
I am extremely hesitant to have any properties being about the entity's Wikipedia article rather than the entity itself. If this is created, it should be "Wikipedia article created by bot", either way. --Yair rand (talk) 00:23, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Agree with Yair Rand. Nothing to do with the entity. Maybe there could be some kind of badge ? TomT0m (talk) 11:25, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Agree with Yair Rand and TomT0m. This has to do with wikilink, not item. --Hsarrazin (talk) 11:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Nothing to do with WD. Some items can be linked to articles create by human and some by bots. This is not a feature of the concept but something to handle by each WP. Snipre (talk) 12:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment @Kopiersperre: Why don't you request a "bot generated" badge instead?--Micru (talk) 13:24, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
@Micru: Ok, that's what I need! I hope I will get some resonance at meta:Talk:Wikidata/Development/Badges.--Kopiersperre (talk) 16:22, 1 July 2015 (UTC)