Talk:Q173399

On gender

@Minerva97: @GreenComputer: @Ytoyoda: There's been a lot of unproductive reverting here so I thought I'd explain why I think this is the correct state. Elliot is both trans man (Q2449503) and non-binary (Q48270) (the sources are clear). They used to be female (Q6581072) and so we have an end date not a deprecated value. Right? BrokenSegue (talk) 02:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@BrokenSegue: Close. His original statement ([1]) just says that he is trans (transgender (Q189125)); importantly, this is not the same as trans man (Q2449503), as non-binary (Q48270) people can be trans too. Subsequent reporting (such as [2] and [3]) has stated that he "describes himself as [...] non-binary" (non-binary (Q48270)). Although some people have assumed that he is a trans man (Q2449503), there are no statements from Page (either directly or via reliable sources) backing this up. The female (Q6581072) statement should (at the very least) be deprecated as (with the exception of some genderfluid (Q18116794) people) trans people have always been their actual genders (that is, the gender they came out as); it's just that we are unaware what that is until they come out. This is a textbook case for a deprecated statement (see Help:Ranking#Deprecated rank, which gives as one of the types of statement that should be deprecated "information that was never correct, but was at some point thought to be"). GreenComputer (talk) 04:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@GreenComputer: Not all trans people say they were never their AGAB. Until we have a source for that we should leave it un-deprecated perhaps with another qualifier. As far as trans v. trans-male I guess until there is a source being more specific we can leave it as-is. BrokenSegue (talk) 17:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@BrokenSegue: I agree that not all trans people say they never were their AGAB, but many do say they never were their AGAB. Especially given the WD:BLP concerns around the subject of gender in particular, we shouldn't have the statement unless we can back it up with sources. Personally, I would just remove the statement until there is further clarification on the subject (although I think deprecating it would also be reasonable), given that WD:BLP states "Instead of striving to provide all possible information about living people we strive to provide only information in whose veracity we have a high confidence". While typing this, I notice you added nature of statement (P5102): possibly (Q30230067). I don't think this addresses the WD:BLP concerns; given the sensitivity of the subject, we should not be speculating on what Page's gender possibly was, and instead should only have statements that can be backed up with sources. I've removed the statement; but feel free to add it back (deprecated) if you think that would be a better solution. GreenComputer (talk) 18:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

ok BrokenSegue (talk) 21:30, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

We should definitely be using transgender (Q189125) and not trans man (Q2449503). As to the inclusion of female (Q6581072), I support GreenComputer's approach, we should either deprecate it or not include it at all until there is clarification from Page. gobonobo ^{+ c} 16:09, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with this suggestion; I personally don't think it's necessary to include female (Q6581072), especially as it seems to imply it's their "former" gender. I'm also unsure that it's necessary to be included at all, but if it is, it should certainly be marked deprecated. Barring future clarification from Page, I don't think there's much more we can do there in that regard. Perryprog (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Amir (talk) 09:13, 17 June 2014 (UTC) ★ → Airon 90 10:29, 17 June 2014 (UTC) --Another Believer (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2014 (UTC) I am not terribly familiar with Wikidata, but offering my support! Gobōnobō ^{+ c} 00:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC) OR drohowa (talk) 15:37, 18 June 2014 (UTC) Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:43, 20 June 2014 (UTC) SarahStierch (talk) 16:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC) (Been adding LGBT stuff on Wikidata for months, had no clue this existed!) MRG90 (talk) 10:15, 19 August 2014 (UTC) Ecritures (talk) 16:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC) Shikeishu (talk) 22:28, 17 September 2016 (UTC) OwenBlacker (talk) 20:34, 11 March 2017 (UTC) Ash Crow (talk) John Samuel 17:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC) SilanocSilanoc (talk) 12:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 22:45, 2 February 2019 (UTC) Tdombos (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Mardetanha (talk) 17:01, 13 June 2019 (UTC) Theredproject (talk) 23:41, 20 June 2019 (UTC) Davidpar (talk) 20:30, 7 July 2019 (UTC) Gerarus (talk) 13:10, 1 August 2019 (UTC) Sweet kate (talk) 16:33, 4 August 2019 (UTC) Nattes à chat (talk) 22:45, 3 November 2019 (UTC) Lucas Werkmeister (talk) Hiplibrarianship (talk) 23:05, 8 March 2020 (UTC) Jamie7687 (talk) 22:27, 6 May 2020 (UTC) Nemo 16:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC) ViktorQT (talk) 14:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC) Christoph Jackel (WMDE) (talk) 13:27, 10 December 2020 (UTC) Mathieu Kappler (talk) 15:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC) Myohmy671 (talk) 14:10, 23 May 2021 (UTC) Ptolusque (.-- .. -.- ..) 23:32, 17 July 2021 (UTC) Zblace (talk) 07:21, 24 December 2021 (UTC) Clements.UWLib (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2022 (UTC) Lastchapter (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2022 (UTC) Idieh3 (talk) 14:28, 31 Januari 2022 (UTC) Koziarke (talk) 02:47, 26 June 2022 (UTC) Skimel (talk) 23:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC) MiguelAlanCS (talk) 19:02, 28 October 2022 (UTC) Rhagfyr (talk) 20:31, 26 December 2022 (UTC) -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 18:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC) BlaueBlüte (talk) 05:35, 25 January 2023 (UTC) Léna (talk) 10:52, 24 March 2023 (UTC) Carlinmack (talk) 15:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC) Ha2772a (talk) 07:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC) La Grande Feutrelle (talk) 22:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC) StarTrekker (talk) 15:24, 19 August 2023 (UTC) Samthony (talk) 12:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC) Gufo46 (talk) 17:27, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Sir Morosus (talk) 06:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC) Cupkake4Yoshi (talk) Wallacegromit1

Notified participants of WikiProject LGBT and Wikidata:WikiProject LGBT/gender for friendly monitoring <3 Matlin (talk) 21:33, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

We are going to need a full protection if this edit warring doesn't stop--Trade (talk) 22:54, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I have protected this page because of edit warring. @GreenComputer, Silesianus, BrokenSegue, Minerva97: Please try to come to an agreement here so we can drop back to semi-protection. Cheers, Bovlb (talk) 03:48, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

• please collect links to conversations store them at Wikidata:WikiProject LGBT/gender. This is a perennial issue. No one is going to resolve it right now without a more complete conversation. The solution will include linking to the many discussions on this topic. If anyone has seen conversations about this case then please include them in the list. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Arabic description

@Bovlb: Hello Wikidatans! As this page is fully-protected I cannot edit the description in Arabic. Could someone with the ability to edit just replace "ممثلة كندية" to "ممثل كندي" to reflect the change of pronouns? Many thanks :-) Flycatchr (talk) 09:37, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done Next time you can use Template:Edit request. Bovlb (talk) 20:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Fixing link for Japanese wiki

{{Edit request}} Hello, we have moved the page of Elliot Page on Japanese wikipedia project, but due to restriction, we cannot fix the interlanguage links. Currently it is still linked to ja:エレン・ペイジ (his previous name) which redirects to ja:エリオット・ペイジ. Could someone please fix the link for us? It should be linked to "エリオット・ペイジ". Thanks <3 -Akira YL (talk) 13:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

I also just noticed that the Japanese name entered in the wikidata is wrong. Currently it says エリオと・ペイジ which is just wrong spelling. His new name should be entered as "エリオット・ペイジ". Also the description needs to be fixed to "カナダの俳優" since the current description reads as Canadian actress. -Akira YL (talk) 22:24, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@Akira YL:  Done - Nikki (talk) 17:37, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Image

{{Edit request}} Could someone please change the order of pictures so Elliot Page, 2010 (cropped).jpg comes before Elliot Page 2015.jpg. --Trade (talk) 22:06, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

@Trade: Any particular reason? The order doesn't matter for chronological purposes due to the use of point in time (P585) as a qualifier. Personally, if we're choosing an order for multiple images to go in, I would of thought the most recent one should be at the top, given that the first image is one of the first things people see when they load the item page on Wikidata (the only place where the order of the statements matters). GreenComputer (talk) 14:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done per GreenComputer, no reason for changing the order. --Ameisenigel (talk) 18:42, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

{{Edit request}} since this is locked any chance someone could add https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/5fc6827304332e21ed1985f0/original/original/GettyImages-1172973863.jpg? i know the time cover was taken down for copyright reasons but i think this one should be in the clear --Briaguya (talk) 08:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Briaguya: what evidence do you have this image is in the clear? BrokenSegue (talk) 16:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

object has role (P3831) and personal pronoun (P6553)

{{Edit request}} number 1: for given name (P735) with object has role (P3831) and the value of usual forename (Q3409033) for at least the value Ellen (Q2235472). {{Edit request}} number 2: for personal pronoun (P6553) what should be the previous values before the expressed date as of December 1 (Q2297)?

Best regards Migrant (talk) 02:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

wikinews wiki

{{Edit request}}

Please add "ru - Категория:Эллиот Пейдж" to Wikinews section. --sasha (krassotkin) 22:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done by BrokenSegue --ZabeMath (talk) 14:07, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Page protection removed

• Wikidata:Administrators'_noticeboard#unprotect_Elliot_Page_(Q173399)

It was protected for a week which is long enough. If anyone has comments then discuss. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

ARZ Wikipedia, title change

{{Edit request}} I recently moved the arzwiki article to reflect the name change, could the arz page be updated to: اليوت_بيج Zackarired (talk) 10:51, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

So far as I can make out, this is already  Done by @HitomiAkane. Bovlb (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

{{Edit request}} Also, setting the description to ممثل كندى would be great Zackarired (talk) 10:52, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

 Done Bovlb (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

French description

I have changed the description in French, which was "acteur canadien" (masculine) to the gender neutral term of "personnalité canadienne du cinéma". I think it was necessary to avoid misgendering Elliot Page (job titles are very often gendered in French) and to avoid using neologism such as acteurice which is not widely recognized. Skimel (talk) 02:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Remove website

{{Edit request}} Per an edit request at en:Talk:Elliot Page#Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2022, can we remove the website please. elliot.page does not appear be owned/operated by Elliot, and two of the three social media links on it point to other people with the same name. Sideswipe9th (talk) 22:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

@Sideswipe9th:  Done. While the value is still there, I've website as deprecated so record that it's incorrect. Vahurzpu (talk) 01:17, 3 June 2022 (UTC)