Wikidata:Property proposal/begin and end of covered period ; covered period
This proposal is a group proposal. The first proposal is for a pair of properties, similarly to start time (P580) /end time (P582) , and the second is the analog of valid in period (P1264) for an item value instead of the pair of properties if relevant.
covered period (start)
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
Description | start of period covered by an archive set, a historical book, or a collection |
---|---|
Data type | Point in time |
Domain | fonds (Q3052382) ; history book (Q10916116) ; collection (Q2668072) ; cultural institution (Q5193377) |
Example 1 | ⟨ Records of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (NAID 12006021) (Q59405637) ⟩ covered period (start) Search ⟨ 2004 ⟩ |
Example 2 | … (there are a lot of these items, see this page for example) |
Example 3 | The Clothing of the Common Sort, 1570-1700 (Q61438444) -> covered period (start) -> 1570 |
- Support. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 16:26, 26 July 2019 (UTC).
covered period (end)
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
Description | end of period covered by an archive set, a historical book, or a collection |
---|---|
Data type | Point in time |
Domain | fonds (Q3052382) ; history book (Q10916116) ; collection (Q2668072) ; cultural institution (Q5193377) |
Example 1 | ⟨ Records of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (NAID 12006021) (Q59405637) ⟩ covered period (end) Search ⟨ 2015 ⟩ |
Example 2 | … (there are a lot of these items, see this page for example) |
Example 3 | The Clothing of the Common Sort, 1570-1700 (Q61438444) -> covered period (end) -> 1700 |
Second proposition :
- Support. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 16:26, 26 July 2019 (UTC).
covered period
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
Description | historical period covered, for instance by a source |
---|---|
Data type | Item |
Domain | same as above |
Allowed values | historical period (Q11514315)(or anything with a begin and an end date / inception …) |
Example 1 | La Vie des Français sous l’Occupation (Q16652835) -> German military administration in occupied France during World War II (Q2748708) |
Example 2 | |
Example 3 | Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology (Q2002512) -> Ancient Egypt (Q11768) |
Example 4 | The Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy (Q1839282) -> Renaissance (Q4692) |
Motivation
[edit]Currently for this purpose start time (P580) and end time (P582) are used. This is incorrect as the english description of both implies that they can be used to express the date an item, like a collection, begins to exists. Clearly the date here is not the date the collection begins to exists but the date of the items that it collects begins to exists themselves, so this is not a good use. We need new properties to correct this bad and conflicting use. author TomT0m / talk page 14:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
@BCU MSS BDC, Dominic: WikiProject Books has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.
Notified participants of WikiProject Museums
The Source MetaData WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name.
Discussion
[edit]- Comment I assume "covered period start/end" could also be used for books like The Clothing of the Common Sort, 1570-1700 (Q61438444)? - PKM (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Comment English labels should be "covered period (start)" and "covered period (end)" for consistency with work period (start) (P2031), work period (end) (P2032). - PKM (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Change made. Thanks for the suggestions. author TomT0m / talk page 12:29, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your answers. - PKM (talk) 19:00, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support Strong support. - PKM (talk) 19:00, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support Note that we also have date depicted (P2913) for point dates (but perhaps only for use on visual works?), and set in period (P2408), for use on items for fictional works. Also, main subject (P921) = <some art movement> may sometimes be more appropriate for some collections or museums, eg Musée d'Orsay (Q23402), Tate Modern (Q193375) ? Jheald (talk) 15:45, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- The name doesn't seem yet to be clear to me. Are there other databases that already have a name for this property? Why should the property be named "begin..." and not "start..."? Very little property names use brackets in their name. Do we really want to have them here? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Comment thanks @TomT0m: for the proposal. For the context, the idea is comming out on the chat room in french.--2le2im-bdc (talk) 14:26, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support Involve in Wikiproject Archival Description, I don't have notice the potential conflict by the use of start time (P580), end time (P582). This properties are central for us. Also if this proposal is a good clarification I give it my support.--2le2im-bdc (talk) 14:26, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support Sounds excellent. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 22:31, 16 July 2019 (UTC).
- Support Seems to meet a need. Anchardo (talk) 08:35, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support Je vote pour, plus adaptée pour la détermination de périodes historiques Tatakdh --Tatakdh (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
- Comment I removed "ready" from the 3rd proposal. The samples don't seem to match the definition. Please fix first. Oppose as presented. --- Jura 17:12, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Jura1: Can you be more specific ? Is this the « Auswitch » example you have a problem with ? This is meant to refer to the historical period of the concentration camp, and there is indeed begin date and end date about this period in the item, as qualifiers of the instance of (P31) statement. This could do the trick if we consider the « historical period » aspect of items values of this property. But maybe you would expect plain statements such as start time (P580) / end time (P582) or inception (P571) / dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) on the items as a definition of the « historical period » associated to an item ? Or would you more expect only instances of as authorized values for those kind of statements ? author TomT0m / talk page 10:00, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
- There doesn't seem to be an end date. It's not even clear it's a time period. I'm sure you can come up with samples that match your definition. Looks like we lack three samples for the first two as well. In that case, this isn't actually ready either. A link to external website doesn't work for samples. --- Jura 10:33, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
- Support all, although I'm not sure example 2 for the third property (the Auschwitz one) would be appropriate. For that example maybe something like main subject (P921) might be better, especially since the first two properties would be used to indicate the time period. Jc86035 (talk) 16:20, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
@ChristianKl, Nomen ad hoc, Jc86035, PKM, Tatakdh, 2le2im-bdc: @TomT0m, Jheald, Anchardo, Jura1: Done: start of covered period (P7103). − Pintoch (talk) 10:04, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with Jc86035 on the the Auschwitz example - it does not seem suitable to me so I have marked the remaining property as not ready until there is an agreement on this. − Pintoch (talk) 17:48, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Pintoch: I have added some further possible examples. A challenge is to identify relationships that would not be better described by main subject (P921) on the one hand, or the new specific start-year and end-year properties on the other. I am not sure I have succeeded -- others may be able to suggest better choices. Jheald (talk) 19:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Pintoch: is there a reason that the covered period property wasn't created? --DannyS712 (talk) 07:24, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- @DannyS712: the consensus for this one was not clear to me given the concerns mentioned by Jc86035. Now with the new examples it seems good to go. − Pintoch (talk) 07:28, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Do you want to create it? If you want me to, just give me a ping --DannyS712 (talk) 07:29, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- @DannyS712: the consensus for this one was not clear to me given the concerns mentioned by Jc86035. Now with the new examples it seems good to go. − Pintoch (talk) 07:28, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
@ChristianKl, Nomen ad hoc, Jc86035, PKM, Tatakdh, 2le2im-bdc: @TomT0m, Jheald, Anchardo, Jura1, DannyS712: Done: covered period (P7643). − Pintoch (talk) 07:32, 29 November 2019 (UTC)