Wikidata:Property proposal/number of teachers

number of teachers

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Done: number of teachers (P10610) (Talk and documentation)

Description	The number of teachers at a educational facility
Data type	Quantity
Domain	educational facility
Example 1	SMA Negeri 69 Jakarta (Q17997567) → 34 (time: 2021)
Example 2	Franklin School (Q100000001) → 19 (time: 2019)
See also	employees (P1128): total number of employees of a company at a given "point in time" (P585). Most recent data would generally have preferred rank; data for previous years normal rank (not deprecated rank). Add data for recent years, don't overwrite students count (P2196): number of students of any type in an educational organization. Qualify with " point in time" (P585). The most recent count would generally have preferred rank; data for previous years normal rank (not deprecated rank). Don't overwrite.

Motivation

Teachers in a school Germartin1 (talk) 20:44, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support. Like students count (P2196), so it would be useful to have the same naming convention ("teachers count", here; or "number of students", there). https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/current_tables.asp shows the U.S. National Center for Education Statistics datasets, and they provide teacher count as equally important to student count. Also
  Runner1928 (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC) —M@sssly^✉ 10:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC) DarTar (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2016 (UTC) Abreu Guilherme (talk) 23:59, 19 March 2016 (UTC) Netha --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC) Tris T7 ^{TT me} Tris T7 (talk) Vahurzpu (talk) 04:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC) Gnoeee (talk) --Epìdosis 17:46, 20 November 2019 (UTC) --Alexmar983 (talk) 17:47, 20 November 2019 (UTC) 99of9 Blue Rasberry (talk) 21:56, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Kind data (talk) 16:58, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Neha576 (talk) Keystone18 — Haseeb (talk) 18:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC) Pru.mitchell (talk) 08:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC) --MSwierenga (talk) 15:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Education. Runner1928 (talk) 22:46, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
• How would this report faculty at universities? Many university faculty do not teach, or only teach some years but not others. It is common for universities to have lots of research faculty. And is it correct that research institutes would have 0 teachers, if they are not educational institutions? Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  Yes a research institute should use P1128 then. Germartin1 (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

 Oppose but here are some things that would make me switch to support

• show datasets that this information exists and does not need to be collected per organization
• find a way to include universities where we can count faculty separate from employees

I agree that it would be useful to report this number but if we establish the property then I want it to start well.

Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:20, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

•  Oppose for now. Sometimes employees (P1128) is used for this, which seems appropriate to me. We wouldn't want a property for every different type of profession's employment numbers. --99of9 (talk) 23:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  @99of9: Well it's not for every profession. There are millions of schools worldwide so it's better to have a specific property. Besides that, teachers may not actually be employed. Germartin1 (talk) 16:06, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  @Germartin1: Why is it better to have a specific property? There are millions of most types of organization worldwide, and millions of most professions. We could end up with "number of..." doctors, nurses, police, accountants, librarians, miners, construction workers, retail workers, ... So I think the slippery slope danger is very real here unless we can agree where the natural stopping point would be. If I were writing a query, I'd actually be happier with a single property employees (P1128) and then filter by instance of the organization type I cared about, and again by a qualifier applying to the occupation I cared about. --99of9 (talk) 02:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

   Comment Is there a particular issue in having many properties, when we can use subproperty of (P1647)? I suppose you can use qualifiers, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do that at present, given that employees (P1128) expects a quantity. Maybe we could have a property such as "employs", to which you could put teacher (Q37226) (or any other profession) as the value, and then quantity (P1114) as a qualifier? Theknightwho (talk) 17:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

  @Theknightwho: I don't understand your issue with the use of qualifiers. This was done fine in the example I gave just above. --99of9 (talk) 00:51, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

  @99of9: separate properties are always less ambiguous. Easier to query and to check missing values. Germartin1 (talk) 02:45, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

•  Weak support for schools, this is frequently a good indicator. Personally, I'm not really sure what the use is for the non-teacher staff number. The approach at Q100000001#P1128 seems suboptimal as it ends up filling two parts that need to be added. --- Jura 10:36, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
• any further input?
  Runner1928 (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC) —M@sssly^✉ 10:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC) DarTar (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2016 (UTC) Abreu Guilherme (talk) 23:59, 19 March 2016 (UTC) Netha --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC) Tris T7 ^{TT me} Tris T7 (talk) Vahurzpu (talk) 04:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC) Gnoeee (talk) --Epìdosis 17:46, 20 November 2019 (UTC) --Alexmar983 (talk) 17:47, 20 November 2019 (UTC) 99of9 Blue Rasberry (talk) 21:56, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Kind data (talk) 16:58, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Neha576 (talk) Keystone18 — Haseeb (talk) 18:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC) Pru.mitchell (talk) 08:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC) --MSwierenga (talk) 15:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Education Germartin1 (talk) 07:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
•  Support Teacher-to-student ratios and number of teachers are important statistics for analyzing educational systems. Lectrician1 (talk) 03:19, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
•  Support useful for schools as well as universities, maybe rename to "teaching staff count" Nepalicoi (talk) 08:32, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
•  Support--BeLucky (talk) 09:05, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

• @Germartin1, Runner1928, Bluerasberry, 99of9, Theknightwho, Jura1:  Done: number of teachers (P10610) —MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 17:09, 11 April 2022 (UTC)