Wikidata:Property proposal/Filmstarts title ID

Filmstarts title ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Done: Filmstarts title ID (P8531) (Talk and documentation)

Description	identifier of a movie on www.filmstarts.de
Represents	Filmstarts (Q1415290)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	audiovisual work (Q2431196)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d{0,7}
Example 1	Stroppy Cow, Stubborn Ram (Q21095960) → 230666
Example 2	10 Seconds (Q169103) → 137934
Example 3	Ella Enchanted (Q939325) → 55566
Example 4	Lions for Lambs (Q367163) → 122877
Example 5	Berlin Alexanderplatz (Q67400758) → 265625
Example 6	Seven (Q190908) → 13892
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	http://www.filmstarts.de/kritiken/$1.html
See also	AlloCiné film ID (P1265)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

The films are listed on this site and give us a new external identifier. The importance of this new identifier is that certain German films are not listed on other platforms. —Eihel (talk) 20:18, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject Movies has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. —Eihel (talk) 20:37, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support I don't know anything about this site, but seems fine to me. U+1F360 (talk) 22:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Looks decent. Trivialist (talk) 23:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
• This is the german version of Allociné: identifiers are the same (example: Seven (13892) and Sieben (13892)) but some entries may differ or be missing (247056 versus 247056 for instance), thus  Support --- ʂɤɲ ✉ 07:59, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
•  Support like AdoroCinema film ID (P7777), the brasilian version of AlloCiné. Queryzo (talk) 08:15, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
•  Oppose there already is a property for the identifier (Property:P1265). Please use that instead. --- Jura 08:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
•  Oppose if this is just a subset of the existing identifier. If it is a superset, then we should expand the other property. --99of9 (talk) 06:19, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Hello @Jura1, 99of9:, Webedia Group (for which I have no link apart from loving cinema…) includes allociné.fr and adorocinema.com, which already have Properties, as well as filmstart.de, beyazperde.com and sensacine.com.mx. This debate has already taken place for a failed closure request from P7777 (AdoroCinema) where it has been proven multiple times that the IDs may be different or absent as sites with independent editorials from languages / regions. Moreover, the positive votes above already contradict comments from the opposition votes. Votes against are therefore not an obstacle to the creation of this property. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 13:28, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I don't think we need a half a dozen of properties for the same identifier even if copying the same value to all of them can give you the impression that this is a lot of "information". We should eventually review P7777 as well. --- Jura 20:45, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

This is the third site, so we are far from the "half a dozen" of properties. Then when you write "same identifier" and "same value", you can write it 100 times that will not be true for all identifiers. Just as Gertrude ID (P1529) and Mérimée ID (P380) have things in common, this proposition remains valid. If you want to review P7777, I'll let you make some suggestions. If a proposal avoids the creation of property while still having all the identifiers, I remain open. But your opposition seems to come from a simple desire and I call that "putting sticks in the wheels". In the meantime, the proposal is ready to be created, so please, avoid changing what's in order: 5 "support" and only 2 "oppose". Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 21:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

The identifier being the same means that one film has just one identifier in the scheme, e.g. QIDs are the same at www.wikidata.org and query.wikidata.org, but the content between the two sometimes differs. This is actually the reason why we already added these identifiers with AlloCiné film ID (P1265).

Even if you note that this just the third proposal (the 2nd created by yourself as property creator), I'd normally expect you to explain why this one is different from the half a dozen of others rather than state that tell us how to count support by a user who notes that "I don't know anything about this site" and resort to personal attacks on users who extensively contributed to the field. If you don't bother explaining it, it's probably better that we consider this as withdrawn. --- Jura 05:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

For the rest of the community: Respectively, AlloCiné film ID (P1265) was proposed by GZWDer and created by Ayack. AdoroCinema film ID (P7777) was proposed by Yanguas.

@Jura1: I will try to reply as best I can.

• The identifier being the same means that one film has just one identifier in the scheme, e.g. QIDs are the same at www.wikidata.org and query.wikidata.org: False. My examples don't lie.
• the content between the two sometimes differs: True. The contents can be different, especially if the film does not exist in the other sites !
• This is actually the reason why we already added these identifiers with AlloCiné film ID (P1265): False. You tried to add P7777 to P1265, not knowing that I had done so over a month ago. The identifiers are not added to P1265, but AdoroCinema film ID (P7777) (the property) was added to related property (P1659) in AlloCiné film ID (P1265), it's not the same thing.
• I'd normally expect you to explain why this one is different: I don't need to explain what the differences are if others are doing it for me. Even better, I had foreseen this scenario and my examples are quite self-explanatory: for 10 Seconds (Q169103), 177818 is the identifier for AlloCiné film ID (P1265) and 137934 is the identifier for filmstarts. There is no identifier for this movie for AdoroCinema film ID (P7777). This is what I explain in #Motivation
• half a dozen: The totality of the sites of this type managed by Webedia Group does not reach a "half a dozen".

I don't quite understand your second paragraph.

• Did someone write "you don't know anything about this site"? Who attacked you personally?
• What do you want "withdrawn"? This proposition ? So as a property creator, do you want to go against the community? Isn't that going into "minefield"? Or do we all have to do what you want?

I would be there if proposals for beyazperde.com or sensacine.com.mx see the light of day, count on me. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 15:17, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

@Eihel, U+1F360, Trivialist, WikiSyn, Queryzo: @Jura1, 99of9:  Done Filmstarts title ID (P8531) Pamputt (talk) 08:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)