Wikidata:Property proposal/heraldic attitude
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heraldic attitude[edit]
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work
| Description | Property to describe the attitude or posture of a charge on a coat of arms (e.g. lion rampant). May be used as a main statement or qualifier in "depicts" statements (and possibly other types of statements). |
|---|---|
| Represents | heraldic attitude (Q1243409) |
| Data type | Item |
| Domain | charge (Q1424805), as a main statement or qualifier |
| Allowed values | any instance or subclass of heraldic attitude (Q1243409) |
| Example 1 | Barberini coat of arms (Q95691023) depicts (P180) bee (Q857492) → volant (Q58810764) |
| Example 2 | leopard (Q355564) → passant (Q47462389), → guardant (Q47462197) |
| Example 3 | lion rampant (Q3241798) → rampant (Q1469340) |
| Planned use | To correctly describe family coats of arms depicted in paintings and tapestries |
| See also | expression, gesture or body pose (P6022), direction (P560), has characteristic (P1552) |
Motivation[edit]
We do not have a proper way to describe the canonical heraldic attitude of an animal or person in a coat of arms. In the early days of 2014, the prototype item coat of arms of the municipality of Östersund (Q10728131) used direction (P560) for this, but that causes a constraint violation. The item lion rampant (Q3241798) uses has characteristic (P1552). expression, gesture or body pose (P6022) is the closest property we already have, but I think it would best to create a unique property for "heraldic attitude" with its restricted vocabulary of values (Wikidata has 26 of them). PKM (talk) 21:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Discussion[edit]
Support. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 08:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC).
Comment if the description is meant to be made with items like bee (Q857492), I think it would be better done with a property other than depicts (P180), e.g. "has part" or a new one. --- Jura 07:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- There are some coat of arms items that use "has part" for the elements of the achievement, and some that use "depicts". The Heraldry project (now mostly inactive) recommended "depicts" but that was in 2014. I would be happy to open this question for feedback - where would you like to do that? - PKM (talk) 21:15, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe in a new property proposal? As far as this one is concerned, I suppose the qualifier could be applied to whatever comes out of it. --- Jura 18:42, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- For reference, ~500 items use “depicts” and ~30 use “has part” currently. I will think about what a new property might be called - as you say, it’s tangential to the discussion at hand. - PKM (talk) 00:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- It seems you had seen Wikidata:Property proposal/blazon by @Tinker Bell: some time ago. --- Jura 06:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Jheald (talk) 08:23, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Wait I think before making a property proposal, we should discuss many other things about modelling blazons, maybe at Heraldry wikiproject. I would also share an attempt to define a structured representation for coat of arms, it maybe could give us some hints for the task. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 04:54, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Can you do this onwiki? How would it impact this proposal? --- Jura 13:29, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Wikidata:WikiProject Heraldry has been fairly inactive since 2014. I would be delighted if we had a few editors interested in picking it up again. There are many properties and qualifiers that have been created in recent years such as shown with features (P1354) that might be really useful in that domain. - PKM (talk) 22:26, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I'd be happy to take part in such discussions/modelling. Was planning on reviving the Wikidata:Property proposal/blazon anyway (how I came across this) but it would be good to revive the discuss, with Structured Data on Commons it should be easier to get the Commons only editors interested. /Lokal_Profil 07:38, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
