Wikidata:Property proposal/fails compliance with

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fails compliance with[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Not done
Descriptionfails compliance of the test defined in the associated item
Data typeItem
Example 1Hackers (Q13908) → "fails compliance with" → Bechdel test (Q4165246)
Example 2instant-runoff voting (Q1491219) → "fails compliance with" → monotonicity criterion (Q6902035)
Example 3Copeland's method (Q5168347) → "fails compliance with" → independence of irrelevant alternatives (Q3150644)

Motivation[edit]

We need the opposite of complies with (P5009) to state when an item doesn't comply with the criterion associated with an item. For example:

Could someone create a "fails compliance with" property? -- RobLa (talk) 02:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Summary of Wikidata:Project_chat/Archie/2020/01 conversation: this is what was discussed over at Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2020/01 as part of the "Reasonably quick way to resolve 'non-compliance property' issue?" topic back in January/February. User:Jura1 suggested modeling this after assessment (P5021) and test score (P5022), allowing us to specify other options besides "complies", "doesn't comply". User:Ghouston suggested instead that we can add qualifiers to this new property if we need to move beyond binary compliance/non-compliance. User:Ls1g suggested a change to the data model to allow statements which negate any existing property, and links to this paper: "Negative Statements Considered Useful" - Hiba Arnaout, Simon Razniewski, and Gerhard Weikum.

  • Comment - Please edit the summary above if you believe there is a problem with it. I'd still prefer taking User:Ghouston's approach as I understand it, which would mean creating a "Fails compliance with" property. -- RobLa (talk) 05:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


  • @Jura1:, can you give details of how you think it should be done? You want to replace complies with (P5009) with a new property, such that there's only a single property for defining compliance? Then the statement itself would be meaningless without interpreting the qualifiers, which would make it harder to write queries. Ghouston (talk) 09:56, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Jura1: I don't think it's correct to say that compliance is not binary. A voting system either complies with a criterion or it doesn't; there is no in-between. The reason that table has cells other than Yes or No is because it combines closely-related voting systems into the same row, and closely-related criteria into the same column. In other words, some of the rows in that table are actually classes of voting systems rather than instances of voting systems. Omegatron (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support - These are binary criteria, and so "test score" or "degree of compliance" or other qualifiers are irrelevant and make queries overly complex. "change to the data model to allow statements which negate any existing property" might be fine, too, but maybe more complicated to use. Omegatron (talk) 14:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Weak support. While "compliance" is binary, Wikidata properties explicitly allows "unknown" and "no value", and implicitly "we don't care" / "there is no verifiable info about this" (by not including a statement). So it will be helpful to have a property to record notable instances of test failures. I also think we should require references for uses of this property so we don't collect irrelevant "failures" and can back ourselves up if people complain we're bad-mouthing them. ("Weak" because I won't have time to help curate this property, but I support whoever wants to do this.) Deryck Chan (talk) 14:22, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wallacegromit1, focus on media historiography and works from the Global South Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 14:12, 16 November 2020 (UTC) Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:59, 21 December 2020 (UTC) Maxime Lijil (talk) 10:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC) PaperHuman (talk) 00:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Media Representation

  •  Comment We spoke about this at Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Media_Representation#Fails_compliance_with and we would rather use Yair rand's and Jura's method (using assessment (P5021) or another, similar property that is not restricted to humans with a new qualifier outcome or test result). While Bechdel test results may be modelled using complies with/fails compliance with, this is not true for many other tests (we need a "not applicable" for some tests and some tests don't deliver a "fail" or "pass" result but just a score). The assessment (P5021) and test outcome approach has the advantage to be more flexible. Please have a look at the model presented at the discussion mentioned above to have an overview about tests that don't fit into the complies with/fails compliance with model and how we could model them after assessment (P5021) and test outcome. So please don't use the Bechdel test (Q4165246) as an example for this property as we are not going to model Bechdel test results like that.
That said I won't oppose this property. I even think that complies with/fails compliance with could be useful for us as a qualifier. There are tests that require certain criteria (e.g the Riz Test) or a number of criteria (e.g. the Feldman test) to be met. To be able to make it explicit which criteria are met and which not is, besides other advantages, necessary so that we can meet a minimal standard of sourcing (e.g. while there will be few sources for a certain film that it meets the Feldman test there are enough sources which can be used to decide if a film has a female screenwriter). We are currently using criterion used (P1013) to record the criteria which were crucial for the outcome but this does not fit nicely all tests - sometimes it may seem a bit shoehorned. So could we use this as a qualifier? In this case I would support this. @RobLa: (as this proposal is quite old...) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 12:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To me as Valentina.Anitnelav points out, assessment (P5021) could be used instead, especially with assessment outcome (Property:P9259). Are there things that cannot be described with assessment (P5021) and assessment outcome (Property:P9259)? For instance if a hardware component tried to respect a standard and failed we could add that it failed compliance with that standard according to <the organization that reviewed it> GNUtoo (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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