Wikidata:Property proposal/adaptation or arrangement of

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adaptation or arrangement of[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

Descriptionindicates the work or one of its versions which served as a basis for the adaptation or arrangement resulting in the given version of the work
Representsarrangement (Q379755)
Data typeItem
Domainliterary work (Q7725634) play (Q25379) musical work (Q2188189)
Example
Planned useThe property is presently used for a test ingest of a small excerpt of the performing arts production database maintained by the Swiss Archive of the Performing Arts. The entire database (55'000+ professional productions) will be ingested when data cleansing has been completed.
See alsoUse based on (P144) to refer to a different Work the item is based on; use edition or translation of (P629) if no significant changes have been made to the Expression of the Work

Motivation

The property complements the Wikdiata data model in the area of the performing arts, where I am planning to ingest several data sets over the coming months / years. See Wikidata:WikiProject_Performing_arts/Data_sources.

The proposed property is to be used in cases where a Work or one of its versions (frbr:Expression) have been sufficiently altered to speak of an "arrangement" or "adaptation", but where these alterations are not profound enough to give birth to a new Work of its own. The two examples below illustrate the use of the proposed property <adaptation or arrangement of> compared to the use of <based on (P144)> and the use of <edition or translation of (P629)>:

-- Beat Estermann (talk) 11:30, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Beat Estermann
Affom
Vladimir Alexiev
Birk Weiberg
Smallison
Daniel Mietchen
Buccalon
Jneubert
Klaus Illmayer
Katikei
GiFontenelle
Antoine2711
Fjjulien
Youyouca
Vero Marino
Celloheidi
Beireke1
Anju A Singh
msoderi
Simon Villeneuve
VisbyStar
Gregory Saumier-Finch
Rhudson
DrThneed
Pakoire
Gabriel De Santis-Caron
Raffaela Siniscalchi
Aishik Rehman
YaniePorlier
SAPA bdc
Joalpe
bridgetannmac
Nehaoua dlh28
LiseHatt
Zblace
Bianca de Waal
MichifDorian

Notified participants of WikiProject Performing arts

Harmonia Amanda Ash Crow M0tty Beat Estermann Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits ohmyerica Antoine2711 LiaFla Pakoire DrThneed Youyouca Maxime

Notified participants of WikiProject Theatre WikiProject Cultural heritage has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead.

@Valentina.Anitnelav: Yes, I totally agree with you. We have used based on (P144) to point from theatre productions to the play (frbr:Work), in cases where we were unable to point to a specific version of the play (frbr:Expression/frbr:Manifestation), and I would continue to advocate in favor of this approach. However, in the example above, I'm pointing from an operatic production to the specific version of the operatic work that served as a basis for the production. In this case, the property <incorporates> (CIDOC CRM P165 incoroprates /is incorporated in) (see for example [1]) would be more appropriate. It does however not exist yet on Wikidata, or have I overseen something? – When creating this new property, we should make sure to clearly distinguish it from <is part of> / <has part>. Take for example Lascia ch'io pianga (Q3359421) - how would we properly model this aria with regard to its earlier versions (and their incorporation in larger works) and with regard to the opera Rinaldo, taking into account that it consists both of the melody and of the lyrics? - The English Wikipedia article gives a good account of the history of its creation.
The second example (Grönholm-Methode (Q51178052)) is tricky by the way: It does not directly incorporate Die Grönholm-Methode (Q51180280); the German version was first translated into Swiss German (as the Swiss German version has not been published, I have indicated the translator on the theatrical production instead of creating a separate item for the Swiss German version of the play). What should we use in this case? <based on> or <incorporated in>? – I would personally go for <based on>, but it's a fringe case... Any thoughts?
And what other art forms were you thinking of where coordination would be needed? --Beat Estermann (talk) 17:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Beat Estermann: This is going to be a bit off-topic: I personally like the idea of <incorporates> (I don't think that we need the inverse). There is has melody (P1625) for music, but I don't see an equivalent property for text. If there would be a property <incorporates> I would actually use it in all cases of direct use of a work (without bigger modifications), even when a translation is used.
When I wrote "I think we need a good documentation (across art forms) with many examples/rules of thumb when to choose which property" I had in mind that we are starting to get quite a number of properties indicating the relationship between works/items related to works: inspired by (P941), based on (P144), <adaptation or arrangement of>, edition or translation of (P629), has melody (P1625), cites work (P2860), maybe <incorporates> which could lead to many indefinite cases - when is something "just" a translation and when is it already an adaptation, when is something "just" an adaptation and when a completely new work? - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 10:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note also derivative work (P4969). ArthurPSmith (talk) 21:43, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
derivative work (P4969) is defined as the inverse of based on (P144), so not really suitable to express the difference between a work being based on another work and something being a modification of a work. Maybe "adaptation or arrangement of" is not the best label for this new property, as "adaptation" is used for works that are actually new works (e.g. film adaptations). "Modification of" or "Modification or arrangement of" could be alternatives (this is what the library of congress uses in this PDF [2]).
To give some more examples where this new property would be useful:
To use based on (P144)/derivative work (P4969) in all cases seems quite inaccurate. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 11:38, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, we might want to change the definition of derivative work (P4969) then, it seems to me like it should encompass all these variety of adaptations/modifications/translations/etc. But it's also in the other direction so I'm not concerned about that right now. Given the above commentary I  Support creation of this property, along with a clear outline of when it should be used vs based on (P144). ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Valentina's proposal to change the property label to "modification or arrangement of"; maybe, "modified version of" would also be a valid alternative. And yes, we need clear guidelines as to when to use based on (P144)/derivative work (P4969) and when to use the new property, which need to be reflected in the property descriptions (definitions). As a rule of thumb, based on (P144)/derivative work (P4969) connects a frbr:Work with another frbr:Work, while the new property links a frbr:Expression/frbr:Manifestation to the respective frbr:Work. When it comes to deciding whether a creative product qualifies as a frbr:Work in its own right or just constitutes an other version (frbr:Expression/frbr:Manifestation) of an existing frbr:Work, we can follow the general guidelines and practices from the library world. However, there will always be a certain level of subjectivity involved when it comes to categorizing borderline cases; but I don't think of this as a serious obstacle. Matters are further complicated by the fact that both the Wikidata community and the library community have a tendency, for pragmatic reasons, to collapse several frbr levels into one item. Thus, an item may represent both a frbr:Work and its first frbr:Expression (in some cases, people may even not have bothered creating a separate item for frbr:Manifestation and frbr:Item). Or quite commonly, an item may comprise both frbr:Expression and the corresponding frbr:Manifestation. As Valentina mentioned above, we should develop a standard approach to modelling such cases based on concrete examples. --Beat Estermann (talk) 07:30, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Beat Estermann, Valentina.Anitnelav: ✓ Done: modified version of (P5059). − Pintoch (talk) 14:37, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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