Wikidata:Property proposal/Depicts lexeme form

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depicts lexeme form[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sister projects

   On hold
Descriptionlexeme form depicted in the media file
Data typeForm
DomainCommons images
Example 1File:Bandera_de_los_Treinta_y_Tres_Orientales.JPG → L562031#F1 invalid ID (L562031#F1)
Example 2File:Protests_in_Puerta_del_Sol,_Madrid_-_Ahora_o_Nunca.jpg → L56980#F1 invalid ID (L56980#F1)
Example 3File:BULLSHIT_rubber_stamp_(mirrored)_on_the_desk_of_a_street_photographer.jpg → L299205#F1 invalid ID (L299205#F1)
Example 4File:Mrs._Susanna_Morin_Swing_160028v.jpg → L9656#F1 invalid ID (L9656#F1)
Example 5File:Vignet_Ende.jpg → L29356#F1 invalid ID (L29356#F1)
See alsodepicts (P180)

Motivación[edit]

In Wikimedia Commons there are thousands of images depicting lexemes (a few of them: c:Category:Images by text, not categorised by language yet). Creating a property to indicate the lexemes depicted in a file would be great (IMHO) with regard to structuring linguistic data in media files. This was posted here. Apparently this was also proposed here a few months ago. strakhov (talk) 16:06, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

 Comment To make this really useful, wouldn't it be better if it was "depicts lexeme form"? That way, we would capture more specifically what is on the image. Ainali (talk) 17:31, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is it only for qualifiers? What if we want to add it as a statement to 🆓 (Q87576444), for example? AntisocialRyan (Talk) 18:14, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@AntisocialRyan: In fact this property is not intended to be used as a qualifier, but as a main statement. But not (at least not mostly) here, but in Wikimedia Commons, with media files. strakhov (talk) 16:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see, I misunderstood the examples.  Support. AntisocialRyan (Talk) 17:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ChristianKl: with regard to the description, mirroring P180's English description, "word visually depicted in an image, see also P180 for entities depicted" may work (?). But please feel free to propose a better one.
With regard to what's valid and what not... I guess it's valid when the lexeme form is depicted in the file. Since depicts (P180) has no indication for what's not valid and what is valid, I do not know why this one would need such prescription. Use of P180 is at the discretion of the user and common sense. Anyway, if you believe there are situations when a form is depicted in a file but using this property would not be valid, please indicate them here. strakhov (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Strakhov: How is a person supposed to decide whether to use items or lexemes to tackle descriptions? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:23, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@ChristianKl: When depicts (P180) should be used and when not IMO falls under the scope of that property (not this one's), and IMO we cannot decide that here (it's a bit tricky and there are still discussions in Commons about when it's appropiate and when not). Anyway, for example, IMHO in the file c:File:Spain Poznan Spain could by You.jpg it would ok using "depicts lexeme form" = L254265#F1, but it would not be ok using depicts (P180) -> Spain (Q29) (the image is not even taken in Spain, but in Poland). On the contrary, in the file c:File:A.L. Hickmann's geographisch-statistischer universel-Taschen-Atlas. 1900 (80112515).jpg IMHO would be "OK enough" using "depicts lexeme form" = L36513#F1 and depicts (P180) -> Spain (Q29) (both properties). strakhov (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Jheald: inscription (P1684) is for entities, concepts, etc, not text: it's language independent, it does not capture different languages being used nor synonyms in the same language (but it captures senses). I guess the problem with someone adding a lot of "depicts lexeme form" statements is not different to someone adding too many P180/P1684P6568 statements (that properties could also be abused). Anyway, if someone believes a big "please, do not try to transcribe full book/newspaper pages such as this one while using this property, try to use common sense" is needed... Cheers. strakhov (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Sorry, I confused inscription (P1684) with inscription mentions (P6568). strakhov (talk) 14:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are absolutely right about this proposal not relating to that property. My bad, I did not consider that one. Well, I guess inscription (P1684) is good for transcribing full sentences (they can be added in the file description, file caption, as free text,... too). But it's pretty bad when it comes to crosslinking Wikidata Lexicographical data and Wikimedia Commons. I am interested in the latest. strakhov (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support with the change to lexeme form, great! Ainali (talk) 08:32, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support in thinking about this, this would open up some interesting possibilities. If we want to document information about what a word looks like written by hand, which can often differ from the digital representation, this would be useful for linking photos showing this to lexeme forms. I uploaded an example of سلسہ just now which I would add this property to if available.
 – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Middle river exports (talk • contribs).
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