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Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

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Property proposal: Generic Authority control Person Organization
Creative work Place Sports Sister projects
Transportation Natural science Computing Lexeme

See also[edit]

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property

  1. Search if the property already exists.
  2. Search if the property has already been proposed.
  3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically.
  4. Select the right datatype for the property.
  5. Read Wikidata:Creating a property proposal for guidelines you should follow when proposing new property.
  6. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below by editing the two templates at the top of the page to add proposal details.

Creating the property

  1. Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator.
  2. Creation can be done 1 week after the creation of the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator.
  3. See property creation policy.

On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2024/04.

Cultural heritage[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Cultural heritage, Wikidata:WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage
Other related projects: Category:Cultural heritage WikiProjects

National Historical Museums of Sweden object ID[edit]

   On hold
Descriptionauthority identification for an object in the collections of the National Historical Museums of Sweden
Data typeExternal identifier
Allowed values[0-9A-Z]{8}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{12}
Example 1Streiff (Q10681657) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/A4B754D2-5CB6-4FA1-997A-970250E32044
Example 2Mosjömadonnan (Q10589526) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/7C505995-EBF5-4106-BBEE-17F52BB3EA83
Example 3Elizabeth Reliquary (Q26253636) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/8BA2743C-5065-438B-9FAA-D854606DB716
Sourcehttps://samlingar.shm.se
Planned useMatching and creating items in the collection that are depicted on Wikimedia Commons
Number of IDs in source1 300 000
Expected completenessno label (Q21873886 (always incomplete))
Formatter URLhttps://samlingar.shm.se/object/$1
See alsoNationalmuseum Sweden artwork ID (P2539)
Single-value constraintyes
Distinct-values constraintyes

Motivation[edit]

Needed to be able to matching and creating items on Wikidata that are objects in the collection of NHM and that are depicted in images on Wikimedia Commons, for example. / LinneaKarlberg (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

 Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Support LinneaKarlberg (talk) 13:05, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Support Eva L Vedin (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Support Elinor Rajka (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment @LinneaKarlberg:, @Eva L Vedin:, @Elinor Rajka:, @Azad Karimi: coordinating support votes with ones colleagues is not helpful, the property proposal process is in place for a reason. Abbe98 (talk) 22:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, we did not know. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Considering that National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) exists and that other properties from SHM are likely to be proposed in the future(places, events, heritage sites, ect) maybe there should only be one property? As far as I'm aware the UUIDs are unique across the various types and even if that wouldn't be the case one could include the type prefix in the id. Abbe98 (talk) 22:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Abbe98: Sure, that would probably work. Do you have an example of another external identifier that includes several different types so I can check how it works? Is it possible then to change the name and details of P9495? LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Europeana entity (P7704) would be one example. I would imagine migrating/generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) by: 1. updating the formatter URL 2. adding the agent prefix to existing values 3. updating the label/description of the property Abbe98 (talk) 10:08, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Oppose Per the discussion above, I would suggest generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) rather than creating a new property for each type. I cave created a section on the discussion page. Abbe98 (talk) 10:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Abbe98 Hello, It would then be necessary to differentiate "agents" from "object". How would you like to do? (incorporate it into the identifier as a general property? or use an external URL formatter?) We can also consider that each property will be dedicated to the type (less errors with dedicated constraints). It would be necessary to recontact those who have already voted, as well as the voters of the other property, to find out if your idea appeals to them, but with more information. I don't see a URL leading directly to the correct page without using the type (with only the UUID). Example: type:UUID. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I would imagine we would use one of the seven possible prefixes like agent/<UUID> and object/<UUID>. We could also use a generic resolver but there isn't an official one so I think such a solution is less optimal. Abbe98 (talk) 06:48, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Abbe98: @Eihel: @LinneaKarlberg: We just had a discussion about this with the Wikidata team at the National Historical Museums of Sweden. Our conclusion is that this property should not be created, and Abbe98's solution (using prefixes) is better. This will include us (WMSE is supporting the museum in their Wikidata work) generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and removing /person/ from the formatter URL and then adding the person prefix to all the existing uses of the property. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:10, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) I have pinged all the people who voted on National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495). I think we should leave it over the weekend at least but then if there are no one oposing this I can migrate it early next week. Abbe98 (talk) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We at NHM are all on board with this approach instead of several Properties. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 08:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like an excellent idea. Many thanks Abbe98 . /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 08:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks everyone, I've started re-defining National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and will migrate the existing items using it. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

National Archives of Sweden persistent identifier[edit]

   On hold
Descriptionpersistent identifier for objects in the National Archives of Sweden main archival database
RepresentsNational Archives of Sweden (Q1724971)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainarchival resource (Q106815942), document (Q49848), work (Q386724)
Allowed valuesBase62-encoded UUID
Example 1No 2. Elbing. (Q111517198) → eYHMeAFOm4sNVmxKK3M5L2
Example 2No 3. Elbing (Q111517379) → 0zDW3BS0Gw9Haap2yUVspE
Example 3No 4. Danzigk wir es Eltere und newer werck (Q111519390) → zmQwWNi2ag9DQGJxnSVmD0
Implied notabilityWikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URLhttps://sok.riksarkivet.se/arkiv/$1
See alsoSwedish National Archive reference code (P5324)
Applicable "stated in"-valueNational Archives of Sweden (Q117288060)
Single-value constraintyes
Distinct-values constraintyes

Motivation[edit]

Wikidata-objekt med denna egenskapen kan också ha Nationell Arkivdatabas Referenskod (P5324), men den persistenta identifieraren är enklare att använda för att skapa webbsides-URLer och länkad data-URIer. Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 13:28, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

It has been created as Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) se discussion - Salgo60 (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not the same as I understand. This proposal is for objects in archives (maybe even archives or series, though I struggle to come up with a case where they would have a wikidata item). The property you link is for an agent (Swedish: arkivbildare). Belteshassar (talk) 09:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Belteshassar, Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige), Abbe98: Dont we make it more complex than needed. Formatter url is the same
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/agent/$1
My suggestion change the name on Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) to be both... I have used (maybe wrongly) both for the "person agent" and the "archive agent"
1) List examples nota bene August Strindberg seems to have more person identifiers at the National Archive looks like something that needs to be cleaned at "the National Archive"...
Having 2 different properties is like if someone should connect with Wikidata and add new properties for every type of instance instance of (P31) Wikidata has... ?
- Salgo60 (talk) 20:35, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cinematography[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies
Other relevant projects: Category:Movie WikiProjects

‎FilmVandaag ID[edit]

   Under discussion
DescriptionIdentifier for a movie or TV show on FilmVandaag.
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainfilm (Q11424), television series (Q5398426)
Example 1The Matrix (Q83495) → film/2102
Example 2The Godfather (Q47703) → film/4068
Example 3Breaking Bad (Q1079) → serie/6
Example 4The Last of Us (Q87131973) → serie/5377
Sourcehttps://www.filmvandaag.nl/
Mix'n'match6293
Number of IDs in source100.000+
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttps://www.filmvandaag.nl/$1
Robot and gadget jobsMix'n'match is used to keep external identifier links up-to-date with wiki data.
Distinct-values constraintyes
Wikidata projectFilmVandaag.nl (Q97065088)

Motivation[edit]

FilmVandaag.nl (Q97065088) is a popular Dutch community-based movie and TV shows platform. Mix'n'match has been fully linked with entries on FilmVandaag.nl. New links are semi-automatically updated through Mix'n'Match weekly, linking new movies & TV shows to (new) Wiki data items to keep everything clean and current. --Dikkekaas (talk) 09:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

FBW ID[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptionidentifier for films with a certification mark on the website of the "Deutsche Film- und Medienbewertung (FBW)"
RepresentsDeutsche Film- und Medienbewertung (FBW) (Q1202529)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainfilm (Q11424)
Allowed values[^\s]+
Example 1Oppenheimer (Q108839994) → oppenheimer
Example 2Barbie (Q55436290) → barbie
Example 3Lassie - A New Adventure (Q121087029) → lassie_ein_neues_abenteuer
Example 4Dune: Part Two (Q109228991) → dune_part_two
Sourcehttps://www.fbw-filmbewertung.com/
External linksUse in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source7,990
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttps://www.fbw-filmbewertung.com/film/$1
Single-value constraintyes
Wikidata projectWikiProject Film (Q8485793)

Motivation[edit]

English:

The Deutsche Film- und Medienbewertung (FBW) (Q1202529) evaluates the quality of film productions and recognizes outstanding works. It should not be confused with the Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft (Q329126), which issues an age recommendation for films.

The FBW is a German federal authority and therefore very reliable. FBW has a movie database of 7,990 films, so it seems fit for Wikidata. --Ontogon (talk) 12:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deutsch:

Die Deutsche Film- und Medienbewertung (FBW) (Q1202529) begutachtet filmische Produktionen auf ihre Qualität und zeichnet herausragende Werke mit Prädikaten aus. Sie ist nicht zu verwechseln mit der Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft (Q329126), die Filme auf eine Altersfreigabe hin prüft.

Die FBW ist eine Einrichtung aller Bundesländer mit dem Status einer Oberen Landesbehörde und deshalb vertrauenswürdig. Sie verfügt über eine Filmdatenbank, die 7.990 Werke enthält. Somit scheint sie für Wikidata bereit zu sein. --Ontogon (talk) 12:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

 Support. The database seems to contain mostly notable items, has a long term funding perspective, and seems to be of good quality. Stability and completeness: I guess "eventually complete" here means that one could in theory match all the current films, but new ones will still be added. The identifiers seem to be pretty stable; Web Archive has entries from 2009 that still resolve successfully. Maybe stability of property value (P2668) could be added with the value values can be added (Q23611840). Schmidt Fu (talk) 06:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your support. You are right. I have now entered "always incomplete (Q21873886)" for the parameter "expected completeness". -- The stability of property value (P2668) could be added to a finished property. Unfortunately, I do not see a corresponding parameter for the property proposal. Please look here --Ontogon (talk) 11:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Television[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies

Anime and manga[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Anime and Manga

Music[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Music
Other relevant projects: Category:Music WikiProjects

Video game[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Video games
Other relevant projects: Category:Video game WikiProjects

‎The Spriters Resource platform ID[edit]

Descriptionidentifier for a video game console on The Spriters Resource
RepresentsThe Spriters Resource (Q124044510)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainvideo game console (Q8076)
Example 1Nintendo 3DS (Q203597)→3ds
Example 2web browser (Q6368)→browser_games
Example 3PlayStation 3 (Q10683)→playstation_3
Sourcehttps://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/
Number of IDs in source108 (source)
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URLhttps://www.spriters-resource.com/$1
Distinct-values constraintyes
Wikidata projectWikiProject Video games (Q8485882)

--Trade (talk) 15:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

‎PEGI game ID[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptionidentifier for a game on the PEGI website
RepresentsPan European Game Information (Q192916)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainvideo game (Q7889)
Allowed values^[1-9]\d*$
Example 1Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (Q121295422) → 110580
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 4 (Q5014725)
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 5 (Q63184502)
↳ platform (P400) personal computer (Q16338)
↳ platform (P400) Xbox Series X and Series S (Q98973368)
↳ platform (P400) Xbox One (Q13361286)
Example 2Princess Peach: Showtime! (Q119833226) → 110756
↳ platform (P400) Nintendo Switch (Q19610114)
Example 3Absolute Tactics: Daughters of Mercy (Q122266849) → 110532
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 4 (Q5014725)
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 5 (Q63184502)
Example 4Ghostrunner 2 (Q106835809) → 110445
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 5 (Q63184502)
↳ platform (P400) Xbox Series X and Series S (Q98973368)
↳ platform (P400) personal computer (Q16338)
Example 5Remnant 2 (Q115641826) → 110178
↳ platform (P400) personal computer (Q16338)
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 5 (Q63184502)
↳ platform (P400) Xbox Series X and Series S (Q98973368)
Example 6Viking: Battle for Asgard (Q2567689) → 11057
↳ platform (P400) Xbox 360 (Q48263)
Example 7Viking: Battle for Asgard (Q2567689) → 11058
↳ platform (P400) PlayStation 3 (Q10683)
Sourcehttps://pegi.info/
Number of IDs in sourceunknown - presumably over 100,000
Formatter URLhttps://pegi.info/search-pegi?id=$1
URL match pattern^https?:\/\/(?:www\.)?pegi\.info\/search-pegi\?id=([1-9]\d*)
↳ web page title extract pattern (P10999) no value (title is always "Search | Pegi Public Site")
See alsoPEGI rating (P908)
Single-value constraintno
Distinct-values constraintyes
Wikidata projectWikiProject Video games (Q8485882)

Motivation[edit]

We already have PEGI rating (P908) and I'm surprised this hasn't been proposed yet - unless I somehow missed it. Some games have multiple IDs for different platforms, and others are consolidated into one ID.

--Lewis Hulbert (talk) 12:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

As you can see a single ID can represent several separate games at once, so unfortunately these are not the IDs we are thinking of :/ Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 20:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's quite a horrible revelation. I wonder how they even came up with such a terrible system? I didn't encounter any of this with the later IDs, but the lower IDs are definitely problematic. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 21:55, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll probably withdraw this at some point but I'm going to leave this open for a bit while I figure out what I want to do. It's definitely not a good fit for an external identifier when some IDs have multiple pages of results (and the website seems to be broken so only the 1st page is visible).
I might make a Mix'n'match even if there's no property, since the data would still be useful for adding a PEGI rating (P908) to many game items. Current usage for that properly is only 5689, so scraping these "IDs" would still be beneficial. Lewis Hulbert (talk) 07:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Literature[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Books
Other relevant projects: Category:Book WikiProjects

‎Hindawi Foundation book ID[edit]

   Under discussion
DescriptionA property for IDs of books published by Hindawi Foundation
Data typeExternal identifier
Example 1al-Rūm fī siyāsatihim wa-ḥaḍāratihim wa-dīnihim wa-thaqāfatihim wa-ṣalātihim bi-al-ʻArab (Hindawi, 2018) (Q113298440) -> 46083685
Example 2Q115962634 -> 86048474
Example 3Makhṭūṭāt al-Baḥr al-Mayyit wa-Jamāʻat Qumrān (Hindawi, 2021) (Q113354665) -> 85064627
Sourcehttps://www.hindawi.org/
Formatter URLhttps://www.hindawi.org/books/$1
Wikidata projectHindawi Foundation (Q20397014)

Motivation[edit]

To use in entries of books published by Hindawi Foundation --MSMST1543 (talk) 11:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Jheald (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2015 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Charles Matthews (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Filceolaire (talk) 16:27, 4 February 2015 (UTC) Danrok (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2015 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits JJBullet (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2019 (UTC) Yirba (talk) 09:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject UK and Ireland Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 12:57, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Video[edit]

Image[edit]

type of deterioration[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptionto indicate types of deterioration presented by an artwork, building, artifact, etc.
Representsdeterioration (Q3045438)
Data typeItem
Domainwork of art (Q838948)
Allowed valuesabrasion (Q331424)

stripe (Q3421342) fold (Q52560700) tear (Q125416942) Q125416963 Q125416981 craquelure (Q1329067) Q125417008 Q125417030 active mushrooms (Q125417043) Q125417048 Q125417054 silver mirroring (Q112581162) sulfidation (Q17083717) Q125417099 Q125417103 Q125417121 Q125417125 leaching (Q1483184) stain (Q97119922) Q125417683 Q125417692 Q125417710 Q125417716 image processing (Q327008) Q125417770 Q125417781 Q125417806 Q125417819 foxing (Q1454672)

Q125417857
Example 1Q52200306→silver mirroring (Q112581162)
Example 2Q52200306→tear (Q125416942)
Example 3Q52200306→Q125417819
Sourcehttps://cdf.montevideo.gub.uy/system/files/documentos/guia_2023_-_para_web.pdf
Planned useWikimedistas de Uruguay has been working with Montevideo Center of Photography (CdF) to upload to Commons their collection of scanned old photographs. The CdF has provided metadata about the pictures, including the type of damage each photograph has suffered. We are requesting this property to use it as Structured Data on Commons.
See alsostate of conservation (P5816)

Motivation[edit]

We believe that this property is particularly relevant for Structured Data on Commons. Our planned use is to describe scanned photographs. It can also be used to describe other works of art. This has been discussed in the GLAM-Wiki global telegram group.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Piracalamina (talk • contribs) at 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Discussion[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts

Podcast[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Podcasts


Theatre[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Performing arts‎, Wikidata:WikiProject Theatre‎

Fiction[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Fictional universes, Wikidata:WikiProject Narration
For projects about specific universes, see: Category:Fiction WikiProjects

canon status[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptioncanon status for this creative work, episode or fictional entity in it's respective narrative universe
Representscanon (Q53815)
Data typeItem
Domaincreative work (Q17537576) and fictional entity (Q14897293)
Allowed valuescanon (Q53815), non-canon (Q99841874), unconfirmed canon (Q124162270), disputed canon (Q124162276), fanon (Q3739281)
Example 1Leisure Suit Larry 4: The Missing Floppies (Q1118622)→canon (Q53815)
Example 2Hugo Simpson (Q4990628)→non-canon (Q99841874)
Example 3Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (Q17738)→canon (Q53815) (applies to work (P10663)→Star Wars universe (Q19786052))
Example 4Magearna (Q24041783) (sex or gender (P21)→female (Q6581072)→Canon status → fanon (Q3739281))
Example 5Graggle Simpson (Q112513067)→fanon (Q3739281)
Example 6The Star Wars Holiday Special (Q1538082)→non-canon (Q99841874)
Example 7Treehouse of Horror II (Q2376730)→non-canon (Q99841874)
Example 8Crystal Blue-Haired Persuasion (Q63344441)→canon (Q53815)
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Distinct-values constraintno

Motivation[edit]

This would open up more far possibilies when modeling fictional entities and works both as a statement but also as a qualifier

We might or might not want to have a mandatory applies to work (P10663) qualifier but i'll leave that decision up to the community. Same applies to unconfirmed canon (Q124162270) and disputed canon (Q124162276) being allowed values--Trade (talk) 03:11, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

so canonicity doesn't seem to be a boolian value–Shisma (talk) 12:48, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing to stop a work from having multiple canons Trade (talk) 19:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose This would mean adding a "canon: yes" statement to pretty much every existing item for a canonical subject in a work, which is needless bloat IMO. Also, as mentioned above, there's the matter of things existing in multiple canons. One of the proposed examples is for Star Wars, which has its regular canon and also "Legends". I think the idea behind this is good but there are just a lot of problems I can see in trying to implement it in practice. OmegaFallon (talk) 13:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is the Star Wars example wrong?--Trade (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Trade, Arlo Barnes, Keplersj, Wolverène: I created an alternative proposal under Wikidata:Property proposal/is part of canon –Shisma (talk) 09:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Weak oppose I’m not 100% sure (as I would need to think way more about this), but my gut feeling is that canonicity is something that is inherently contextual − which canon are we talking about? «Official StarWars» vs « Legends » come to mind − and thus needs to live as a qualifier on something, not as a main statement. Would it then work to have it qualify takes place in fictional universe (P1434)? or media franchise (P8345)? Or is canon something orthogonal to both the universe and the franchise, and needs a separate proposal entirely (Perhaps Shisma’s alternative proposal aligns better with my thoughts) Jean-Fred (talk) 11:01, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎is part of canon[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptioncanon status for this creative work, episode or fictional entity in it's respective narrative universe
Representscanon (Q53815)
Data typeItem
Domaincreative work (Q17537576)
Allowed valuesinstances of canon (Q53815)
Example 1Radioactive Man (Q1953829)→The Simpsons canon (Q124206593)
Example 2Treehouse of Horror VII (Q1087745)→unknown (not part of any known canon)
Example 3Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (Q17738)→Star Wars canon (Q3648466)
Example 4Star Wars: Rebel Assault (Q55259)→Star Wars Legends (Q3551295) (canon should probably have its own item)
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Distinct-values constraintno

Motivation[edit]

This proposal is an alternative proposal for Wikidata:Property proposal/Canonicity.

  • This is a subproperty of part of (P361).
  • The subject of this property must be a work (Q386724).
  • The object of this property must be a canon (Q53815)
  • The property may be used in reference statements, if the object of the reference has no wikidata item. For instance if it is merely a url.

The truthfullness of statements should be evaluated using references. Conflicting statements of non-work entities should be ranked with

Preferred rank preferred
reason for preferred rank (P7452) → at least one source is considered canonical (Q106831793) (example)
Deprecated rank depricated
reason for deprecated rank (P2241) → source is not considered canonical (Q124173200) (example)

Non-conflicting, statements should not be qualified with any canonicity evaluations. Instead a reference statement with stated in (P248) should be present. The object of stated in (P248) should itself have a is part of canon statement. This way a user can query which statements are relevant for a particular canon.

A statement without a reference statement should not be considered canonical – Shisma (talk) 09:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

 Comment Why are we not allowed to use this on fictional entities?--Trade (talk) 02:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you could qualify almost every statement of a fictional entity with with whether it is canon or not but that would be:
  1. a lot of work
  2. a lot of redundancy
because the question can be answerd purely on the fact if the information is taken from a work that is part of the body of a canon or if it isn't. thats why I propose only qualify conflicting statements with existing properties. It is a common misconception that an information or statement can be canon. A canon is a collection of works – Shisma (talk) 08:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I literally said nothing about statements Trade (talk) 14:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand. do you have an example? – Shisma (talk) 15:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ah, you mean like a character? – Shisma (talk) 15:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah Trade (talk) 16:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
so you mean statements like:
Professor Moriarty (Q283111)is part of canoncanon of Sherlock Holmes (Q2316684)
I think it would be more correct and straightforward forward to say:
Professor Moriarty (Q283111)present in work (P1441)The Final Problem (Q228119) + The Final Problem (Q228119)is part of canoncanon of Sherlock Holmes (Q2316684)
But I'd be fine with the former too. Other opinions? – Shisma (talk) 16:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support, an important property for fiction.--Arbnos (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support I have a slight preference for this one. But Trade's proposal has the advantage that it is possible to make it explicit that something is not part of a certain canon (using canon status:non-canon, restricted to the canon using applies to work (P10663), for instance). With this property we can only express that something is not part of a certain canon if we are complete with respect to that canon. We can use <no value> if there is really no canon this work belongs to, but couldn't there be a Simpsons-Sherlock-Holmes-Crossover that is considered part of the Simpsons canon but not part of the Sherlock Holmes canon? (I could not think of a real example and I'm not sure if this is a likely scenario). How would we express this? - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 12:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose proving that something is not part of any canon is like proving that something doesn't exist. Maybe it is part of my headcanon that I published on my entirely irrelevant weblog in the late 90s. There would also be an infinite number of works that are not part of a canon. For instance: every Episode of the Simpsons is not in the Sherlock Holmes Canon. I'd say we can add unknown if we don't have a complete catalog of canon items. – Shisma (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In general you're right. I was just thinking of cases where one would expect that a work is part of a canon but it is not. E.g. for every episode of The Simpsons (Q886) it may be expected that it is part of The Simpsons canon (or I would expect that), but Treehouse of Horror II (Q2376730) is not. It is somehow more interesting that an episode of The Simpsons (Q886) is not part of The Simpsons canon than that it is part of the canon. It is somehow similar to does not have part (P3113) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Valentina.Anitnelav: you mean like not found in (P9660) (opposite of described by source (P1343))? – Shisma (talk) 13:00, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, or like this (depending on how you think of the relationship between a canon and its "parts"). On the other hand I think my Simpsons-Holmes-expample (where we could not use <no value>) would be very, very rare. Probably we can just forget about it. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 15:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, lets keep in mind that is not part of canon could be useful in the future for edge cases – Shisma (talk) 16:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Weak support - Weak support. Preferring Trade's proposal. My focus (admittedly I've been on a bit of a wiki-break lately due to IRL priorities) around here has been with works such as the Touhou Project, where canonicity can be fuzzy at times, thanks to the series mostly being the work of just one developer. The first five games in the series were made for the Japanese PC-98 computer in the late '90s. After the PC-98 was discontinued around the turn of the millennium, the series "started over" with 2002's Touhou Koumakyou: the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, featuring Reimu and Marisa (the deuteragonists) but none of the other characters from the PC-98 games. Only two PC-98 characters (Yuuka Kazami and Alice Margatroid) have ever reappeared in a later Windows game, with both having been redesigned to some degree. When asked about the PC-98 games' canonicity, ZUN (the sole creator) has stated multiple times that (paraphrased) "PC-98 canon applies as long as Windows canon doesn't conflict with it." However ZUN doesn't always section everything off, and the fans are left with "Is this still canon or is this decanonized?" type-of-questions. (For example, Yuuka Kazami had a big mansion-esque building in Touhou 4 (a PC-98 game). She (eventually) reappeared in Touhou 9 (a Windows game)... just in a big flower field, with no sign of a mansion. Did it get removed (decanonized) and replaced with the flower field? Did we just not see it in Touhou 9? Who knows! So would "stuff" (I use the term loosely) discarded in such a manner - never outright stated to have been decanonized, but partially overwritten and otherwise not brought up again - be considered part of a "canon of X" item, or do they not? Or would they be part of a separate "canon of X (old)" item? -- Kurzov (talk) 17:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know any particulars of this franchise. But here's my interpretation and how I suppose the proposed property would apply: There is apperently a work that "is part of a canon" and another work that is "(only partially) part of a canon". Sorry for repeating myself: this property is only concerned with works, not anyone's interpretation of what can be seen in them. In short, i'd model this with the qualifier: nature of statement (P5102) partially (Q100349848) –Shisma (talk) 19:18, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We could probably use an item named "loose canon" for this. Trade (talk) 02:41, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creative work[edit]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/works
Software products and brands, see: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/terms
Books, see: Wikidata:WikiProject Books

is fake of[edit]

   Under discussion
Descriptionthe kind (class) of elements this item falsifies / is a fake for
Representsfake (Q22959676)
Data typeItem
Domainforgery (Q1332286) feint (Q427117) forgery (Q1332286) … all kind of fakes
Allowed valuesclass (Q16889133)
Example 1
⟨ play-action pass (Q1734020)  View with Reasonator View with SQID ⟩ → Search ⟨ rush (Q744865) ⟩
Example 2
⟨ Feigned retreat (Q5441540)  View with Reasonator View with SQID ⟩ → Search ⟨ withdrawal (Q1760704) ⟩
Example 3
See alsoforgery after (P1778) View with SQID simulates (P12328) View with SQID
Distinct-values constraintyes

Motivation[edit]

We need a model for modeling fakes, forgery or feints, this is an attempt to advance in this field. Not top priority of course but nice to have I think. author  TomT0m / talk page 18:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

  •  Support I can see how this would be useful in a number of entries. --Fordaemdur (talk) 19:32, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment Some overlap with simulates (P12328)? -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 22:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Wd-Ryan I did not know about this property, thanks. Maybe yes, but the "trickery/deception" dimension seems absent of "simulate". Nobody would say that a special effect in a movie.
    There also seems to be a fundamental difference between something that simulates a situation (truck simulator) in a virtual world and something that is intended to replace by fulfilling the same function, and a virtual simulation with no consequence in the real world besides learning and entropy increase. author  TomT0m / talk page 08:27, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose I don't think there's enough difference from simulates (P12328) to justify a new property. That the purpose of a particular simulation may be to trick or deceive can be stated separately, with e.g. has goal (P3712), where relevant. Likewise for the physical/virtual nature of the simulation, which will in most cases be established by the basic membership properties. Swpb (talk) 20:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Swpb I think the "artificial heart" is not a question of physical nature or not, it's a question of "fulfills the role of", it's not at all like an exercise. It's the same difference as a drône that would fulfils the same role as a soldier in a battlefield, we would not say that the drone "simulates" a soldier. It would just be a weapon.
    for objectif du projet ou de la mission (P3712) I think usually just using instance of (P31) / subclass of (P279) is usually enough, for example play-action (Q1734020) is just a kind of pass play disguised.
    I also still thinks that the (trickery) intention is not trivial to infer. If it's a subclass of "fake" it may be queried like this but … objectif du projet ou de la mission (P3712) : trickery is convoluted and not a better model, and also there might be a lot of inconsistent ways to express this information. Maybe using several properties in an unclear way to convoy a well identify nuance in the meaning to spare the existence of a property is not a good tradeoff. author  TomT0m / talk page 20:40, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In your reply to wd-Ryan, it seemed to me you were looking to use a physical vs. virtual distinction to separate this proposal from simulates (P12328). If you want to express that something is intended to take the role of something else, I'd use replaces (P1365). As to the purpose of trickery, you're right that P31/P279 will generally be enough to infer trickery, without resorting to has goal (P3712) – but to me, that strengthens the case against a new "is fake of" property, since the presence of a P31/P279 statement implying trickery removes the need to express that nefarious intent with a property that is otherwise the same as simulates (P12328). To me, the reason why you are simulating something – to replace something, to teach someone, to trick someone, etc. – is a separate bit of information from what you are simulating, and trying to capture them in the same property is not good modeling. Swpb (talk) 15:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb No, I don't think so. Think that you can fake something in a sport simulation video game … It's actually two different dimensions.
"Replaces" is definitely not a good property for that. Imagine if a fake doctor replaces your real doctor for a while ? author  TomT0m / talk page 17:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With replaces (P1365), I was thinking of your drone/soldier example. At this point I don't understand what case you are making for this proposal; I need to see specific examples where you think the existing properties are not sufficient. Swpb (talk) 19:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose I don't see the distinction between this and simulates. Almost all (if not all) types of fakery in a sporting sense is when someone simulates doing something, but does something else. (Hidden ball trick, diving, etc.) Have you got any examples of something where "simulates" doesn't cover it? Lee Vilenski (talk) 14:23, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Lee Vilenski : my problem is actually, how do you convey the trickery sense with simulates. A fire truck simulation is not a trickery, but could also use the property you propose. But the intension behind the truck simulation is totally genuine. That's the nuance I want to convey and I did not see yet a simple way to express it.
    A more convoluted way could be with queries and inferences : if the action is a subclass of run play but simulates a pass play and "an action cannot be at the same time a run play and a pass play" … (we can do the last one using "disjoint union of") or by classifying as both a subclass of "fake / trickery" and "run play" at the same time, but none of these models are simple.
    (also reading about this hidden ball trick it seems it can involve the simple masking of the player to confuse the defense about where it is going, it's then not necessarily a trickery about simulating a kind of action by another kind of action, it can be the same action in a different direction ? You simulate a pass but you actually do a pass ? ) author  TomT0m / talk page 14:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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