User talk:Filceolaire

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Welcome to Wikidata, Filceolaire!

Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike, and you can help. Go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!
Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familarise yourself with:

If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.

Regards, --Ymblanter (talk) 12:33, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Contents

Explanation of how we plan to use queries and inclusion[edit]

Instead of filling up the Project chat with a text is more of a crash course about future features I write something here.

In point 1 it is not several items that point to a page on Wikipedia, it is the page using a prepared query that collects a set of items and includes them on the page or a page that explicitly pulls in information from a specific item. The items will not in either of those cases have information about the pages where they are used on Wikipedia.

How sitelinks are used is perhaps a little confusing, and makes the whole thing difficult to understand. They have two roles, the first one is to replace the langlinks used today (the magic interwiki links) and the second is to connect the item with the pages on Wikipedia in such a way that the pages can use sitelinks for default look-up. The default look-up can be overridden on any page by explicitly specifying the item. Use of the sitelinks for replacing langlinks is what we now prepare for Hungarian Wikipedia, and what would be done for the rest of the wikipedias in February.

In fact, the items collected in a query and presented on a page in Wikipedia might not have sitelinks at all. Imagine for example books from an author, none of them might be worthy a page on Wikipedia but they can still be defined in Wikidata. The list of books can then be included in the article about the author, and they will show up there, even if they don't have sitelinks.

There is a technical draft m:Wikidata/Notes/Inclusion syntax v0.3 that describes how we envision the client pages will pull in properties (information) from the repo items. Still note that this is about inclusion of information from single items, not about queries for building lists and tables. Jeblad (talk) 10:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jedblad. I think I understand now how this can work with 1-to-1 links for highly structured lists and tables.
  • WD has a page for each item in the list.
  • If any of these items has a WP page it gets an interlanglink.
  • If not then it is a WD page with no interlanglinks
  • This will require a change to notability policy to allow for WD pages with no corresponding WP page where needed to complete a list.
  • A separate WD page will have the links to the WP pages with the list/table.
  • WD pages for individual items will not have links to WP list/table pages even if it means the WD item pages end up with very few links.
  • Only 1-to-1 links are required to achieve this functionality.
This will work for a great majority of pages. For the corner cases where more is needed the ability to add links by hand will I suppose have to do.
Thank you again. Filceolaire (talk) 23:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata:Disambiguation pages task force[edit]

I created this task force so the guidelines which were conceived in the Discussion dont rot in the project Chat archive. If you could help expand and or link transfer to a better place were newcomers can profit from this it would be appreciated. Regards--Saehrimnir (talk) 05:23, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

your changes at Wikidata:Disambiguation_pages_task_force/guidelines[edit]

Hi Filceolaire! I've seen your changes at the guidelines and I would like to discuss them. I started the discussion here and I'm looking forward to your answer ;-) tia --Knopfkind (talk) 02:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi again :) Can I also draw your attention to this section? Thanks --Knopfkind (talk) 13:36, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Property:P443 Pronunciation (sound file)[edit]

Hi,

The above property is now available and can be used on items. I noticed you participated in its discussion. --  Docu  at 06:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Edition data[edit]

I have expanded the RFC about references/sources to decide how to store edition data.--Micru (talk) 13:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Filceolaire, please take a look to my last comments after the Hackathon, if that is an acceptable solution we should aim to close the RFC on June 15.--Micru (talk) 23:56, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

RfC on Wikidata's primary sorting property[edit]

You recently participated in a deletion discussion for P107 - main type (GND). The discussion has been closed, as it is clear that a resolution won't come from PfD, and an RfC has been opened on the matter at Wikidata:Requests for comment/Primary sorting property. You are invited to participate there. Please note that this is a mass delivered message, and that I will not see any replies you leave on this page.

Yours, Sven Manguard Wha? 18:23, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

'Bonnie anc Clyde' issue[edit]

Hi Filceolaire, I wanted to ask you about a comment you made here:

I call this the Bonnie and Clyde (Q219937) problem. Some wikipedias have an article on Bonnie and Clyde while others have separate articles on Bonnie Parker (Q2319886) and Clyde Barrow (Q3320282). We have agreed that the devs will amend the software so we can link to redirect pages as well as linking to articles. This should, in most cases, solve this problem. Filceolaire (talk) 19:55, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

It's something I've been desperately looking for, as I'm trying to clean up interwiki language links between a good dozen of languages. And the same issue always comes back, without the possibility to add Redirects to Wikidata items, a lot of translation links go lost. So I would like to know a bit more about that comment you made. Do you know where that is/was being discussed, and when it will be executed? I can't seem to find it. Many thanks! --Midas02 (talk) 20:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

located on terrain feature (P706) has been created...[edit]

...you can start using it now :) --Nightwish62 (talk) 20:03, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Geology properties[edit]

Hi Filceolaire! Do you have time to look at the following 3 proposals Wikidata:Property_proposal/Term#Stratigraphy. They will be helpful to sort out the stratigraphy items, find duplicates and source them. I'm having some trouble getting them reviewed. After these are sorted out I can prepare to connect fossils with strata which will be really exiting. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:06, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Global Economic Map[edit]

The properties that you added are good for the project. I'm not sure about 'Holding', 'Shareholder' and 'Accounting rules' properties because they do not have a place in the project.

I have added all the properties that the project needs at this point. Mcnabber091 (talk)

New proprty "emigrated in" and "emigrated in date"[edit]

Hi Filceolaire, I proposed these 2 properties. I agree with you: "emigrated to" will use point in time (P585) as qualifier for the related date.

Meanwhile, could you create the property "emigrated in"? obviously if you support the this property. I proposed this propery in July and no one was not favorable!

Thanks in advance LucaBiondi (talk) 21:17, 5 August 2013 (UTC)


  • Hi Filceolaire, yes i mean "emigrated to". for example: Rodolfo Valrentino is emigrated to United States.

Do you think i must improve the property proposal i wrote ? :-) thanks LucaBiondi (talk) 21:42, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Changes to the property proposal archive[edit]

Hi Filceolaire! Please don't make changes to the property proposal archive. Nobody is really going to see your supporting vote there and the top of the page has a "do not edit" template. I offered a hopefully better solution in the project chat. best wishes :) --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:50, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Removing Disambig from P107[edit]

Hi

Please tell me why have you removed Disambig from the description of that property and from Template:Entities/text? --Michgrig (talk) 08:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Because it is not a GND main type. In the RFC on this it was agreed to use instance of (P31) Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410) instead to identify Disambiguation pages. Filceolaire (talk) 11:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

cause of destruction (P770)[edit]

The property cause of destruction (P770) is available now. I saw that you participated in the discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Hierarchy of administrative divisions[edit]

Hi Filceolaire, I read this sentence in your recent change to Help:Statements: "We use instance of (P31) to create a hierarchy of administrative divisions." In my understanding, "is a" by itself does not constitute a hierarchy; it is rather made by a succession of statements "is in the administrative territorial entity (P131)" in a set of larger encompassing entities.

Also I would appreciate if you could clarify when to use instance of (P31) vs. type of administrative territorial entity (P132) for administrative divisions. Should we not use the most specific property if a dedicated one exists?

Thanks - LaddΩ chat ;) 02:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Very good clarification, thanks! You're right, every inhabited place is not an administrative division indeed :) - LaddΩ chat ;) 14:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

chapter (P792)[edit]

The property chapter (P792) that you supported is available now. Please help out by reviewing other people's proposals.--Micru (talk) 17:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Property creator[edit]

Hi Filceolaire! You are a very active contributor to the property proposal pages. Would you like to request property creator rights? Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Other_rights#Property_creator --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:04, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I could also nominate you, if you would prefer that. all the best. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:00, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

significant event (P793)[edit]

The property significant event (P793) is available now. I saw that you participated in the discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I try to propose a organized process to use significant event (P793) in it talk page: can you check and improve this draft ? I know you were strongly involved in the property proposal. Snipre (talk) 09:45, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

RFCs[edit]

Do not close RFCs in which you are involved.

Thanks. --Izno (talk) 01:00, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

significant event (P793) for Cars/items ... use distribution (Q867147) or production (Q739302)[edit]

Hi Filceolaire,

For cars and many other items distribution (Q867147) i think should be more correct that production (Q739302). Eg. for a car real production (Q739302) start and end before distribution (Q867147) (when you can buy the car) What do you think about?LucaBiondi (talk) 12:44, 24 August 2013 (UTC) Could be.
In practice it may be dificult to tell when distribution starts and finishes while production is more likely to be well defined. You can even include both if you have reliable sources. Filceolaire (talk) 19:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Global Economic Map property proposals submitted![edit]

How does it look and do we need to add the qualifiers to the list?

http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Term

Mcnabber091 (talk) 19:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

event location (P766) and (no label) (P540)[edit]

Please comment Wikidata:Project_chat#Problem_with_2_properties about this definition problem. Snipre (talk) 09:48, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

WD/Notability[edit]

Sorry, can you provide a link for this edit that can testify consensus was reached? --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry to insist, but I'd like to know when and where consensus was reached about your edit above. Given that I'm in favour of that, I just would like to add a footnote to confirm that that exception has been confirmed. --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 12:44, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

About Sea of Japan (Q27092)[edit]

Please be careful if you are editing what you don't know well. Sea of Japan (Q27092) is between Korea and Japan-not with China.

See this

so, please change french description too. Thanks, by ReviDiscussSUL Info at 15:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

GDP by sector / Employment by sector[edit]

I'm not sure how the qualifier thing works yet.

For employment by sector there is a source that has about 10 sectors listed for employment. Another source divides the employment into 3 sectors. I feel like these two different sources should be different properties. Same goes for GDP by sector. One source divides GDP into 3 sectors while the another source divides GDP into more detailed sectors.

Thanks for your help.

Mcnabber091 (talk) 01:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I got rid of the duplicate properties on the proposal page Mcnabber091 (talk) 07:26, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposal[edit]

Hi Filceolaire,

I responded to your comment there and was wondering if you would re-consider your opposition. The property shouldn't interfere with any other properties you may be using. --  Docu  at 18:54, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I have thought some more on this and I don't think this property is the best way to do this. See my comment on the property proposal page. Sorry. Filceolaire (talk) 22:29, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I do appreciate comments by users who actually try to build statements in one or the other.
You wrote it "should" work that way, but can we actually do it? Is there a working solution? Wouldn't it interfere with the way people use P31?
I'm not sure if you tried to work with the "constraint reports", but I think they work fairly well with the combination of P107 = geographical feature. We can derive this combination from Wikipedia and then proceed from there. Already a large number of items are already marked with that. Starting from there, we can gradually build statements. As we have to find a way to replace this use of P107, this new property could work for that. It doesn't assume users already put in place all other properties, nor would it interfere with other properties. An alternative would obviously be the coordinates, but I haven't seen the "empty" value work in a useful way. --  Docu  at 05:39, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you would respond to the above. If you merely oppose it because you don't intend to use it and can't provide a working alternative, it could be considered obstructionism. --  Docu  at 09:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Docu: That's not nice. Please assume good faith. I believe all my comments have been quite constructive.

While using 'class' in the way I suggested is a feature that we don't have yet boolean datatype is equally hypothetical. If you feel a Main Type like this is needed then you should be contributing to Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Migrating_away_from_GND_main_type#geographical_feature_.28Q618123.29.

If all of these discussions come to naught we can still label these items 'instance of:place on earth' or 'part of:earth'. No new property needed. Filceolaire (talk) 10:21, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Day pages[edit]

To make them more consistent, I was think about adding aliases and descriptions as in 8 September (Q2850). What do you think of it?--  Docu  at 05:39, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

New property[edit]

Hi,

One or several properties you proposed are now available: JSTOR article ID (P888) --  Docu  at 21:21, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Re: Creating items with no sitelinks[edit]

All of them have backlinks from other items for contains administrative territorial entity (P150), so they meet WD:N#3.

For souring task - this batch of run has already ended and I don't have a good tool to track all statements added by my bot and add qualifiers to them. Maybe I can do it in following runs, which will be from other sources. Liangent (talk) 05:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Update: Is Slovenia a real place or is it part of Second life[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Filceolaire. You have new messages at Wikidata:Contact the development team#Is Slovenia a real place or is it part of Second life.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Ricordisamoa 17:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

facility (P912)[edit]

Hi! This property has been created now. You made a similar proposal (re.: Wikivoyage), and supported this one. Danrok (talk) 20:26, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Filceolaire (talk) 16:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Talk sometime?[edit]

Would you be interested to Skype sometime soon? my Skype account is deleted. It would be cool if we could catch up and I could learn some things about Wikidata.Mcnabber091 (talk) 22:16, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Order of Mass[edit]

User:Šárka Praha has removed all the interwiki links at en:Order of Mass except that to the Hebrew article. You will know better than I whether that action is good or bad. 86.41.72.35 19:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Using classes for property discussions[edit]

Hi, I think your idea of drafting a RfC about that is a good one, I also think it's a good idea to implement an example. The chess one (see project chat) is simple enough to be a toy example to play around with and be easoly set up and real enough to be a real application (from Wikidata to Wikipedia), why not playing around with this ? TomT0m (talk) 10:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: Type of administrative division[edit]

First of all, my current bot scripts don't work due to bugzilla:54313 / bugzilla:54959 and I don't bother to workaround it now and just want to wait for the fix (the original importer bot, which have already done all its work, did direct API calls, but its code is quite messy, and I'm not planning to work on it anymore).

About the division type, it's quite straightforward to derive that from Property:P442 and I can do that after the platform is "fixed". Transliteration is possible, but it may introduce mistakes (en:Heteronym (linguistics)), especially when it comes to place and person names. Another issue is that your suggested target is English label, not Romanization of text in original language label, and I think some text / words need to be translated, instead of being transliterated (eg. XX = XX village, not XXcun - and all village names here are suffixed with "村" in Chinese). The exact code to do this translation / transliteration needs some discussion. Liangent (talk) 21:47, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Hrm but Q602778 ("cun" is translated into "village") or Q954362 ("cun" is omitted). Liangent (talk) 22:34, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
en:Category:Villages in China is a good category for you. Liangent (talk) 22:42, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Lattes[edit]

Hi there! Given that there are few Portuguese-speaking Wikidatians around, would you mind weighting in on this proposal? Thanks. Pikolas (talk) 21:35, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

You probably have edited without logging in[edit]

See Special:Contributions/86.6.107.229. Was it made by yourself?--GZWDer (talk) 12:41, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

WD:PFD comments about handedness[edit]

I'd like you to reconsider your delete comments about the 'handedness'-related properties for deletion. Handedness does not imply armedness, and I'm not sure you considered that (seeing as you made the reason "per above"...). --Izno (talk) 23:32, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

As I noted in my keep comments, armedness (which is really what the properties being considered for deletion are for) does not imply handedness. I could write with my left and play with my right. Does that make sense? I'm not sure I have opposition to seeing the two properties being merged with each other, but merging them both into handedness seems an incorrect choice. --Izno (talk) 20:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Izno: i raised a specific issue which I see as a problem if we have a bunch of different properties. If you want to convince me to change my vote you need to address the specific issue I raised. Your statement above doesn't even address this. Filceolaire (talk) 00:35, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
Untrue. If they are semantically different, then they should not be merged, regardless of how many properties there are. And these three very much are; the notion of "handedness" is surely distinct from "playing hand" or "hockey hand", which are really relations about which arm a player prefers and not their hand (the fact that we call them "handedness" is a failure of language). Now, please reply to my point. --Izno (talk) 01:22, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Help:Sources/Items not needing sources[edit]

Hi Filceolaire,
I'd like to mark Help:Sources/Items not needing sources for translation. However, I wonder if not better first to merge this page with Help:Sources. What do you think? Chrumps (talk) 22:13, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I think that adding all of the information in Help:Sources/Items not needing sources to Help:Sources would unbalance that article, which is why I created it as a separate article in the first place. Filceolaire (talk) 08:31, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

III. Restructure Wikidata items[edit]

Thanks for your support at Wikidata:Requests for comment/Commons links#III. Restructure Wikidata items. We need those changes to take place. JMK (talk) 16:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

total produced (P1092)[edit]

Just created total produced (P1092). --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata:Requests for comment/Can we reuse anything from DBpedia?[edit]

I have closed the aforementioned RFC because of the lack of community participation. Regards, --Ricordisamoa 00:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Proposals[edit]

  1. Wikidata:Property proposal/ #league season (en) Can you make the new proposal? My english are not so good and you seem you know many thinks about properties.
@Xaris333: done. See Wikidata:Property_proposal/Event#Participant alias Candidate/Competitor - though it is the reverse property - i.e. a property to attach to an event that links back to the team/person. Filceolaire (talk) 00:24, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  1. Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization#league season position (en) Can the proposal performance be used for organizations? Xaris333 (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Don't see why not. If used as a qualifier for the 'Participant' property then the event item can list all the participants and the number of points each received. Filceolaire (talk) 00:24, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

For the first: How can I used the reverse property to have a complete list of all the leaques took part in Real Madrid Club de Fútbol? And how to put the final place? The Competiton property (or participant) can be used on the leaques, not on the teams. Xaris333 (talk) 16:48, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

@Xaris333: the tools for viewing reverse properties are not yet in place but there are lots of use cases for such tools and they will be available sometime in the next year or so I am sure. For example each book has an author, each film can have a list of actors but there isn't an easy way, yet, to get a list of the books written by an author or of the films that an actor appeared in. In the meantime we work at getting the data into the system. Tools for getting it out will come. Filceolaire (talk) 21:26, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Ok. So if I put participant in 2012–13 La Liga with all the teams, in the future I can have that Real Madrid plays in 2012-13 La Liga. They only thing I just want (and I this is useful), is the place that every team got. How can I do this with performance? Can you give me an example? Xaris333 (talk) 02:48, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

@Xaris333:: yes. For performance just give the number of points each team got. There is probably a case for a "Ranking" property as well for 1st, 2nd etc. This could also be used for tennis and some other sports where there are official rankings that go into the hundreds. What other properties would a league report need?
  • Games played. Not needed because it can be calculated?
  • Games won
  • Games drawn
  • Games lost
  • Goals scored
  • Goals conceded
  • Goal difference. Not needed because it can be calculated?
  • Bonus points? I think that this a thing in some leagues.
I see that 2010 Major League Baseball season (Q1361383) has columns for Home Games Won/Lost and Away Games Won/Lost as well as some calculated rankings.

Does this make sense? Should we add these properties?Filceolaire (talk) 21:15, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

We need

  • the performance (1st, 2nd, ...) But this must be different for the points. If 2 or more teams has the same points, how can we show which one take the highest place? And if a teams deducted some points, how can we show the final ranking? I mean with the deducted points, the team may lose ranking places.
  • games won (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • games drawn (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • games lost (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • goals scored (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • goals conceded (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • points (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • bonus points (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • points deducted (0, 1, 2, 3, ...)
  • Maybe result as Qualification to the Champions Leauge 2014-2015.

For Games played and Goal difference we need to calculate automotically, if the other parameters are complete. If we have a parameter like point system (nowdays football has 3-1-0, before some decadies was 2-1-0 or 3-2-1), it can be calculate automotically the final points. How long you think we have to wait for all? Xaris333 (talk) 18:10, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Improved Global Economic Map taskforce[edit]

Hi Filceolaire, I wanted to thank your help last summer. I have reorganized the Global Economic Map taskforce property page here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Global_Economic_Map_task_force/Properties There is also many new properties that I proposed here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Economics#Population_growth

I thought you should also know that I have applied for a grant (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Global_Economic_Map) in the project and I am currently trying to generate community support. I have found a lead programmer who will make a bot to upload economic data into Wikidata according to the project. Thanks! Mcnabber091 (talk) 21:30, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Football stadium[edit]

Hello. Pls compare Ammochostos Stadium (Q582868) with the template in w:en:Ammochostos Stadium. I put all the information on wikidata except Operator, Surface and Tenants. Are there properties for those items? And how coordinates can be linked like Emirates Stadium (Q163995)? Xaris333 (talk) 17:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Forgot the above. Let's do more general work. Pls comment at User:Xaris333/Football. Xaris333 (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Notification received?[edit]

Hi Filceolaire, I have been testing the group notification for the books task force, did you by any chance get the notification about the new topic in the talk page? I have no way of knowing if it really worked :-/ --Micru (talk) 11:56, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

@Micru: I got the notification. Filceolaire (talk) 06:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for confirming it :)--Micru (talk) 09:02, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Mythological character[edit]

As you created (no label) (Q16751053) I wonder if it isn't a duplicate with mythical character (Q15410431)? Ahoerstemeier (talk) 22:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you are right. I have created a duplicate. I'll see which is more linked to then merge. Thanks Ahoerstemeier. Filceolaire (talk) 08:56, 24 May 2014 (UTC)