Wikidata:Properties for deletion

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This is the properties for deletions page. To nominate a property for deletion, complete the following steps:

  • Place the {{Property for deletion}} template on the property talk page.
  • Open the discussion on this page under the "Requests" section below.
  • Notify the user who originally proposed the property and the property creator for it on their respective talk pages.
  • Validate the property isn't being used in other projects (using {{ExternalUse}}) and if it is leave a message in Village pump of the project project

Requests may be closed after 7 days, but may be extended if consensus is not reached. If the request is uncontroversial, for example "accidentally created with wrong datatype", please use the faster-moving requests for deletions instead.

Add a new request


On this page, old requests are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at Properties/1.

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Requests[edit]

Please add a new request at the bottom of this section, using {{subst:Rfd|1=pagename|2=reason for deletion}}.


tennis doubles ranking (P1119)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

Redundant with P1118.--Filceolaire (talk) 00:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC) Replace tennis singles ranking (P1118) and tennis doubles ranking (P1119) with a generic 'Ranking" property that can have the qualifier sport (P641) so it can be used for all sorts of sports that publish rankings. It can also be used as a qualifier in competitions and elections to record which participant (P710) was 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.

In tennis, most players have two rankings simultaneously, one for single play, and one for double play. As far as I'm aware, for mixed-double there is no ranking, therefor that property has not been requested. I would support the creation of a new property "sports ranking" that might be useful in other sports, but for tennis we would need these two anyways. Edoderoo (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
There is probably as many ranking that there is sport organisations. I would propose to use a generic ranking properties with a qualifier to precise of which ranking we are referring to. TomT0m (talk) 09:42, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
@Edoderoo: You don't need two special properties for singles and doubles tennis. Just have Ranking (P????) with 2 values. One with qualifier sport (P641) = Singles tennis and the other sport (P641) = doubles tennis. Filceolaire (talk) 00:17, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question I agree 100% with this deletion request, .. however ... as I understand it, Wikidata Client cant access qualifiers at the moment, so there is no way for infoboxes to differentiate between two values for the same property..? If so, I think Wikidata's duty to be useful for infoboxes means this deletion should be put on hold until Wikidata Client allows properly structured data. John Vandenberg (talk) 07:03, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
    Wikidata Client can access qualifiers, but it require support from Lua-modules. -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 15:11, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting question.svg Question As ranks change, how would the history of both rankings be mixed in one property? --- Jura 15:29, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
Jura: Use sport (P641)=<singles tennis> and start time (P580) as qualifiers to note when a singles ranking was first achieved and end time (P582) when it changed. Similarly for doubles. This means a tennis player might have twenty values for this property, each with three qualifiers. Mark both the current values (singles and doubles) as 'preferred' Filceolaire (talk) 20:19, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Though "singles tennis/doubles" is not a "sport or discipline" (btw those words means almost the same in Finnish), but "tennis" alone is. --Stryn (talk) 17:15, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete I started already a new property proposal for the generic property 'ranking' because in dewiki there's the wish that the rankings of table tennis players get stored in WD. --Pasleim (talk) 11:39, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I see User:Pasleim's proposal has now been approved as ranking (P1352) so we should delete both tennis singles ranking (P1118) and tennis doubles ranking (P1119). Filceolaire (talk) 21:18, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete As a simpler solution is available. Snipre (talk) 08:08, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete We have a more generic property: ranking (P1352). Look at Eva Ódorová (Q5415215) for an example. And yes, we should delete also tennis singles ranking (P1118) --ValterVB (talk) 19:17, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
But in the item you linked, there's "sport: table tennis", then in tennis player items it would be "sport: singles tennis"? Also table tennis can be played as doubles (though I don't know if they have a ranking for doubles). Anyway, then we should create items for singles tennis and doubles tennis, if they don't exist yet. --Stryn (talk) 14:30, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@Stryn: Already created: singles tennis (Q18123880) and doubles tennis (Q18123885). Example in Serena Williams (Q11459) --ValterVB (talk) 18:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Nice, though still, singles tennis is not in w:list of sports (as sport (P641) is), but meh, I think I'm alone with my opinions here :-) --Stryn (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Just came in my mind: how about ITF junior/senior/wheelchair rankings (from ITF website)? I think that we should add them also. If so, then we should keep this property. --Stryn (talk) 21:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Symbol delete vote.svg Delete Use ranking (P1352) instead. --Casper Tinan (talk) 08:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I tried to test it at Wikidata sandbox (Q4115189), but it doesn't look very good. Then, do we create items also (in addition of singles tennis (Q18123880) and doubles tennis (Q18123885)) to wheelchair tennis singles, wheelchair tennis doubles, ITF tennis juniors and ITF beach tennis? --Stryn (talk) 18:09, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I can't see any decent way to substitute this property at the moment, so I'd vote to Symbol keep vote.svg keep for now. Jared Preston (talk) 14:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment I haven't followed tennis for many years, but I think it used to be two ranking-systems for double. One for each player and one for each combination of players. Each player could then have several double-rankings. One for him/her alone and one for every partner (s)he had. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Is there any ranking for mixed tennis and is there any property for it? -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Datatype change: short name (P743)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

Change to monolingual text datatype.--Shlomo (talk) 06:18, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support. This feature is useless without language. --putnik 17:39, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Not useless, e. g., United Kingdom is shortened UK language-independant, but a monolingual datatype would be more useful; Symbol support vote.svg Support --Akim Dubrow (talk) 17:55, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is shortened to United Kingdom or Royaume Uni etc. Looks like multilingual datatype is required. Filceolaire (talk) 15:10, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose the language is usually obvious from context of parent property (if used as qualifier for full name like official name (P1448) or (OBSOLETE) title (use P1476) (P357)) or entity (check language of work (P407) of the entity). may be we just need to make this property "qualifier only". -- Vlsergey (talk) 14:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support That's correct.--دوستدار ایران بزرگ (talk) 17:34, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm the "father" of this property and I agree that this datatype is not the best. But I am not sure "monolingual text" is the best option. I used this for example as "Stockholm" as short name for "Stockholm City" and "Stockholm Municipality". I am not sure monolingual Stockholm would be a good option in for example Portuguese or Finnish, since they use other names for this entity. Observe that I have never proposed that this property should be used for abbreviations like United Kingdom/UK, rather for when you write "Municipality: "[[Stockholm Municipalty|Stockholm]]" in templates. The use should then be something like [[<WD-sitelink>|<WD-prop 743>]] instead of [[<WD-sitelink>|<WD-label>]] in the code in our templates. This especially when the "short name" is not identical with the "label", something I experience problems with in the Swedish language. Look for example in sv:Template:Jönköpings län 1952 where you find two entities with the same short name "Vetlanda" but who has different official names "Vetlanda landskommun" and "Vetlanda stad". Add to that "Vetlanda köping", "Vetlanda municipalsamhälle", "Vetlanda kommun", "Vetlanda församling", "Vetlanda socken", "Vetlanda distrikt" and the urban area of "Vetlanda", and you see some of my problems. The long names here are the official (with maybe some exception) but the full official names are not always used our templates. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 11:58, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete in favor of datatype change. Having language of work (P407) for entities like NATO or the European Union doesn't make much sense, considering that they have multiple official languages. You can't correspond a short name to a specific language without using language of work (P407) as a qualifier for the short name. I don't see an advantage using this method over using monolingual datatype. —Wylve (talk) 15:50, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support changing the datatype of "short name" (P:P743) from string to monolingual string. --- Jura 13:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Sounds like most of you talk about this property as an "abbreviation"-property. It was never proposed or intended as such! A mono-lingual datatype does not fit the purpose of the property. You need a multi-lingual datatype. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:56, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment the shortening (abbreviate, contract, reduce or whatever) of a word *is* language-dependant. Coca Cola is shortened as « Coca » in French, as « Cola » in German, as « Coke » in English, etc. European Union is abbreviate as EU in English and German but UE in French. On United States of America (Q30), short name (P743) is « USA » but USA is English (and for the irony : English is *not* the official language of USA), in French, the short name is « États-Unis ». And so on. @Vlsergey said the language if obvious but it isn't, 東京 is both Japanese and Chinese (Hant) but 东京 is Chinese only (Hans), and it's the same place! and what about multilingual context? For Switzerland − where there is 5 official/national languages − which one is obvious? As Wylve said, French *and* English are *both* official languages of NATO/OTAN, which one is the obvious one and which one should be prefered ? Plus, it's not only about « officiality », sometimes there is both an official full name and a official short name. If we need this property to be multilingual, why not add the ISO 639-2 code « mul »? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 22:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
    In fact, it's more “zxx” than “mul”. I just found this request on phabricator : T72205 \o/ VIGNERON (talk) 09:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

docking port (P546)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion) Discussion for the property creation

Existing since May 2013 but still not used.

Keep. Property talk:P546 defines clearly the notion, and indicates this is an infobox field.
The main goal is to note the docking port of spaceships. The example given during the discussion were Soyuz TMA-9 first docking port is the Zvedza ISS module. I've added it, so we have a working example.
A similar property is the home port. So we can describe regular traject from home port to docking port with these two properties. --Dereckson (talk) 09:59, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
See also spacecraft docking/undocking (P622), which is more used. So we have the date and the location. --Dereckson (talk) 17:42, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol delete vote.svg Delete "docking port" (P:P546): @Dereckson: unless there are at least 5 uses, I'd delete this. --- Jura 13:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

ship class (P289)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

Redundant with instanceOf Property:P31.--Andrea Shan (talk) 18:42, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment - This is as redundant as "lake type" and "mountain type". The item USS Ronald Reagan [1] has both "instance of = Nimitz-class aircraft carrier" AND "ship class = Nimitz-class aircraft carrier". Same duplication "Soviet aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov (Q359024)" with "Kiev-class aircraft carrier". Below are some numbers to show that currently the values are not consistent:
  • "claim[289]" - 912 items
  • "claim[31:(tree[11446][][279])]" - 28,323 items (instances of "ship" or one of its subclasses)
  • "claim[289] and claim[31:(tree[11446][][279])]" - 857 items - inconsistency, should be 912
  • "claim[289] and claim[31]" - 895 items - inconsistency, should be 912
  • "claim[289] and noclaim[31:(tree[11446][][279])]" - 55 items - inconsistency, should be zero
  • "claim[289] and noclaim[31:(tree[11446][][279])] and claim[31]" - 38 items - inconsistency, should be zero
By eliminating P289 the above inconsistencies will be eliminated too. Andrea Shan (talk) 18:48, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Danrok, Goldzahn, Laddo: --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:43, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Here is the last discussion: Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2013/Properties/2#ship_class_.28P289.29 --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete. ship class is redundant with instance of (P31). Emw (talk) 13:47, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment maybe those users that voted on lake type invalid ID (P202) (@Casper Tinan, Paperoastro, Laddo, Jakec, AmaryllisGardener: and on mountain type invalid ID (P302) @Izno, Nightwish62, 79.40.79.94, Filceolaire: can have a look here, since it is the same kind of redundancy, only instead of lakes and mountains, it is in the domain of ships. There also seems to be no other domain specific type redundancy for concrete physical entities/instances, no for cars (type of car), no for rivers (type of river), no for buildings (type of building). Andrea Shan (talk) 18:10, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg Keep This one is not as clear as lake type. Ship class is a characteristic expected to be displayed in WP infoboxes; classes should be readily available from WD - I mean, not any type of ship, but specifically a class of ship. First, there are a set of specific constraints (see Property talk:P289); second, there are hundreds of classes of ship but not all ships belong to formally defined ship classes. As a result, a given ship may be instance of (P31) = something that is not a ship class... for example, currently
HMS Drottning Victoria (Q52905) <instance of (P31)  coastal defence ship (Q2304194) and ship class (P289)  Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013)
while Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013) <instance of (P31)  ship class (Q559026) and subclass of (P279)  coastal defence ship (Q2304194)
If we get rid of ship class (P289), you only get
HMS Drottning Victoria (Q52905) <instance of (P31)  Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013)
it will be difficult for infoboxes to get the ship class because the infobox itself would have to ensure that instance of (P31) points to something that is an instance of (P31)  ship class (Q559026).
It might eventually be possible to replace that property with some on-the-fly query that would check if the target of P31 is a ship class (Q559026) and if so return it. Possible in some distant future... I'm not even sure that it will be feasible after Wikidata:Development_plan#Simple_queries gets deployed. -- LaddΩ chat ;) 01:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment User:Laddo
  • that is a misuse of instanceOf. InstanceOf has to be as precise as it can, so I changed it to "Sverige class coastal defence ship". "Sverige class coastal defence ship" is a subclass of "coastal defence ship". ANY "Sverige class coastal defence ship" is ALSO A "coastal defence ship" - here it is even reflected in the English language title, the string "coastal defence ship" is also contained in "Sverige class coastal defence ship". String matching aside, the information that the ship is a "coastal defence ship" is found upwards in the classification tree. That is exactly the same for lakes, mountains, cars, air planes, ...
  • my fix to the item fixes your second point, "there are hundreds of classes of ship but not all ships belong to formally defined ship classes. As a result, a given ship may be instance of (P31) = something that is not a ship class... for example" now P31 gives a ship class. Andrea Shan (talk) 01:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Andrea Shan: I guess I wasn't clear enough. If the infobox wants to display the field "ship class" for Regina (Q1254588) <instance of (P31)  tugboat (Q191826), what does it display? How is it different from HMS Drottning Victoria (Q52905) <instance of (P31)  Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013) ? Belonging to a ship class is very different from being a certain type of ship. These are two different concepts, assigned independently. Of course, all ships of a given class belong to the same type, but that will not help WP infoboxes figure out what to display in the field "ship class".
BTW I find it quite impolite that you elect to "fix" the item that I chose as an exemple. Not that I do not agree with your change, but I was using it as an example, you see?
-- LaddΩ chat ;) 02:21, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Laddo: An invalid example. Anyone could have fixed it. I find it impolite that you find it impolite if editors fix items. Regarding WP infoboxes figuring out what to display - at the Wikidata item I cannot find a value for a ship class for that ship. So, yes, if there is not value for X than WP infoboxes may have a hard time to figure out what to display - if they are unable to figure out to display no value for X as empty string or "unknown" or something similar. Andrea Shan (talk) 02:30, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment The documentation contains an error, since USS Enterprise is not a watercraft. Also, the property name is misleading, since the property is applied to submarines, which are not classified as ships in Wikidata. So the valid another consistency test is, after some fixing: "claim[289] and noclaim[31:(tree[1229765][][279])]" returns four items [2], all are described as fictional spaceships/starships. Andrea Shan (talk) 02:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't get your point. In your example, the statement HMS Drottning Victoria (Q52905) <instance of (P31)  Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013) is enough since Sverige class coastal defence ship (Q2976013)is a subclass of coastal defence ship (Q2304194). Can you give an other example in order to make things clearer ? Casper Tinan (talk) 18:07, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I changed the example, even if it may be too much simple. I'm not expert on ship, but I followed this and the previous discussion and ontologically I'm right with the distinction between the two classifications as explained by Laddo. I have seen some items of ships and in most of the cases the statements of P31 and P289 are the same: the two hierarchies need to be fixed. In this situation it is obvious that someone ask the deletion of P289. --Paperoastro (talk) 21:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Paperoastro, Esquilo: Could you take a look to Help:Item_classification ? I try to explain why this is not a misuse. Could you read and we can discuss what is unclear and needs to be clarified. If we later all agree maybe we should asopt this page to shorten the future discussions and to help everybody :) TomT0m (talk) 20:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
I have read the explanation, but I still persist that the most important classification of HMS Aboukir (Q5631188) is that she is a ship of the line (Q207452). That she also is a member of (P463) of a ship class (Q559026) is also important, but secondary to what watercraft type she is. /ℇsquilo 19:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
There is no ontological difference between a "ship class" and a "ship type". A given instance of a ship like HMS Ven is indeed an instance of (P31) a ship class, e.g. Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel. That ship class is ontologically a subclass of (P279) another ship class, e.g. mine countermeasures vessel and so on up until ship (Q11446). "Ship class" and "ship type" are domain-specific versions of instance of (P31); they just indicate different ranks in ship taxonomy.
And like rank-specific 'type of' properties from biological taxonomy, this one should also be deleted. Consider this comment from the request for deletion of 'watercraft type':
Imaging deleting all taxonomical properties (like invalid ID (P71), invalid ID (P74), invalid ID (P77) etc) and using only instance of (P31). Such data model would be useless on other Wikimedia projects. invalid ID (P288) and ship class (P289) fulfills the same purpose for ships as invalid ID (P71), invalid ID (P74) do for animals
Note how P71 and the other properties there all have labels like "(OBSOLETE) family (P71)" or are deleted, except for P31. While I differ with WikiProject Taxonomy in certain basic aspects of their approach to classification, they were utterly correct in deprecating those biological analogs of "ship class".
This debate has already been settled. Use WikiProject Taxonomy's solution and apply an 'ontological rank' property to determine the desired subclasses of 'ship' to show in a given infobox. Fortunately, ships are a relatively small domain and ship class (P289) is not used on any Wikimedia client site per Property_talk:P289. Let's finish migrating the data away from this redundant 'type of' property, delete it, and use instance of (P31) as a generic solution for classifying this kind of thing, like the rest of the Semantic Web. Emw (talk) 04:33, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
I stand by my conviction that deleting such properties makes the use of Wikidata much more difficult to use as a source of data and therefore is contraproductive. /ℇsquilo 08:14, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
I also disagree with the statement There is no ontological difference between a "ship class" and a "ship type". HMS Ven (Q10515240) could be said to be a member of (P463) of Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel (Q10548373), but absolutly not instance of (P31). /ℇsquilo 10:13, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Does User:Esquilo care to prove that there is no ship that is an instanceOf "Landsort-class mine countermeasures vessel"? That "Landsort-class mine countermeasures vessel" is a class of ships is already in the name. Is Are ship classes, classes without instances? What do they class then? Andrea Shan (talk) 15:41, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Esquilo, when I say "there is no ontological difference between a 'ship class' and a 'ship type'", I mean more precisely that any given ship class or ship type is -- in the terms of ontology -- a class. They are merely different ranks in a ship taxonomy. Yes, a ship like HMS Ven may change its "ship class", but that does not entail that it is not an instance of a given "ship class" at any given time. Whether it is a good idea to use instance of here is a question on which reasonable people might disagree, but given that Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel is a subclass of mine countermeasures vessel, whether HMS Ven is an instance of Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel is not a matter of debate among people familiar with ontology.
Your assertion that "HMS Ven" could be said to be a member of "Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel" further indicates a lack of familiarity with basic membership properties. For example, "John Lennon instance of male" is correct but "John Lennon member of male" is not. Similarly, HMS Ven could be said to be a member of Swedish fleet (Q10685327), but to say "HMS Ven (Q10515240) member of (P463) Koster-class mine countermeasures vessel (Q10548373)" is an elementary mistake.
I encourage you to read http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-primer/. It's an excellent introduction that might help clarify things better than I've done here. Emw (talk) 20:01, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
It is not a misunderstanding of basic membership properties. A class has members. That is the most basic property of a class in hierarchy. HMS Ven (Q10515240) is in instance of ship (Q11446) or mine countermeasures vessel (Q3515348) because they are not classes. /ℇsquilo 14:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment In August User:Esquilo reduced the precision of the instanceOf value [3] to fit with his personal view, instead of the definition of that property. Andrea Shan (talk) 15:49, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep "ship class" (P:P289): A defined property seems more appropriate for this. Makes it easier to maintain as well. Things in P:P31 tend to be mixed up and not necessarily better maintained. --- Jura 13:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
    "A defined property seems more appropriate for this" - does User:Jura1 care to explain in how far rdf:Type is not a "defined property"? Does Jura1 care to consider that "Things in P:P31 tend to be mixed up and not necessarily better maintained." can be true along with "Things in P:P289 tend to be mixed up and not necessarily better maintained."? If one can insert the IDs of each property into a phrase, how can such a phrase be used to vote for one property? Andrea Shan (talk) 15:22, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Among millions of products that exist, and further millions of physical items made without human labor, "items" in subClass "ship" are deemed that special by four users, that they are the only items to get their own property for classification. Some even promote misuse of instanceOf. Andrea Shan (talk) 15:36, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Redefine: A ship class (Nimitz, Dreadnought, Concordia, Flower, etc) is just a name that is used by humans to group individual ships of specific types (aircraft carrier, battleship, cruise ship, corvette, etc). A specific ship need not belong to any class but will always have a type. The foregoing being true, then I suggest that this property P289 is incorrectly defined because it combines class name and ship type into a single value when the two should be kept separate and only be combined at the point of use.
This last is important, not only because ships need not belong to defined classes, but also, because when used in final article form, the combination of ship class and type must be properly styled and, depending on use, hyphenated or not hyphenated. Ship classes named for a member of the class are italicized: Nimitz class when the compound term describes the class and: Nimitz-class aircraft carrier when the compound term describes the ship type. When a ship class is not named for a member of the class, the same hyphenation rules apply, but the class name is not italicized: Flower-class corvette. All of this is presentation detail which is not something that Wikidata should concern itself about.
If P289 is allowed to stand as is, users of the data, in order to provide correct presentation, must disassemble the property value to apply appropriate styling and hyphenation. P289 should be redefined to be just the class name. The ship's type should be provided by another property.
Trappist the monk (talk) 11:57, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment If a ship has a class, then it's type can be derived from that class, since every class only has one type? Andrea Shan (talk) 10:43, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, but why force subscribing wikis into doing that derivation or extraction?
At enwiki, the meta thing commonly called a ship class is a construct built from one or more primitives:
  1. <class name>
  2. <class name> markup
  3. connective text <class> or <-class>
  4. <ship type>
  5. optional parenthetic <class name> disambiguator
  6. optional nationality <class name> disambiguator
  7. optional parenthetic <ship type> disambiguator
I can't speak for other wikis which may do things differently, but at enwiki, we already have the tools necessary to assemble and render a correctly formatted meta ship class for all of the above except those few that require the optional nationality disambiguation (British Porpoise-class submarine disambiguated from United States Porpoise-class submarine).
Don't make those tools obsolete by lumping all of these primitives into a single property.
Trappist the monk (talk) 16:08, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete redundant with instance of (P31) To mark a class as a class of ships, for example ''nimitz class'', use
< Nimitz class > instance of (P31) miga < Ship class >
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep I really can't say it better than has been said above but it seems clear to me that we should maintain the distinction of instance of and ship. Otherwise it seems to me that the instance of a vessel, would be ship, submarine, etc. This would also make instance of a huge unwieldy mess with too many tangential associations that would skew its usefulness into a "Stuff" category. Reguyla (talk) 20:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
    In the vast number of instances where I personally used the class rather than the type of ship, I had maybe one, maybe two cases where it was not evidently clear that the type of ship could not be derived from its ship class (with the appropriate relationships). Have you not actually worked with the data? --Izno (talk) 23:27, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
    Although I am fairly new to Wikidata I have worked with ship articles often in the past. I do agree that in general most ships classes are evident but there are also a number of cases, particularly with older vessels, where this is not evident. At the end of the day I really don't feel that strongly about it but it doesn't seem like an ideal solution to be to get rid of this property. Reguyla (talk) 13:45, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Properties for events and their dates and locations[edit]

Similar to

this is a proposal to unify properties with the goal of

  1. increasing the ability to describe items,
  2. facilitating data access and presentation,
  3. increasing the availability of information in multiple languages
  4. reduce cultural bias.

All values stored by "Date of <event type>"-properties can be described using "Property:P793 significant event". As it seems all of the event types listed below, e.g. "date of birth" would qualify as significant. A qualifier links to the item that describes the type of event and another qualifier links to the item that describes location. If there is a specific item for that event, then this can be linked, and the qualifiers are left empty since date and location can be stored at the event dedicated item.

If all significant events are stored in that way, they could be easily sorted in chronological order, which could help User:Magnus Manske with the Reasonator and WMDE under User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) with the Wikidata:UI redesign.

Instead of translating labels and descriptions of items that are event types and also translating these for properties, the latter will not be needed anymore.

Also the current "date of birth" is culturally biased, see en:Bardo#Six bardos in Tibetan Buddhism and IIRC there are people that place the start of existence of a human at the day the parents thought about having (this) child.

Thanks a lot to User:Pasleim for maintaining Wikidata:Database reports/List of properties/all. This was a great help in collecting the properties.

Not included[edit]

Properties with data type = time, which are not proposed for deletion here:

Andrea Shan (talk) 09:05, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I added P1317 floruit to those that could be deleted. Frank Robertson (talk) 14:07, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

List of event classes and related properties[edit]

These can all be described via significant event (P793). Many event types already use P793, see some listed at Property talk:P793#Rules.

Domain Event class Time
property
(generic)
Time
property
(specialized)
- number
Time
property
(specialized)
- English name
Time
property
(specialized)
- creator
Location
property
(generic)
Location
property
(specialized)
- number
Location
property
(specialized)
- English name
Location
property
(specialized)
- creator
Other
property
(generic)
Other
property
(specialized)
Person birth (Q3335327) point in time (P585) 569 time of birth User:Tpt location (P276) P19 place of birth
Person death (Q4) point in time (P585) 570 time of death User:Tpt location (P276) P20 place of death has cause (P828), has immediate cause (P1478) P509 cause of death, P1196 manner of death
Person burial (Q331055) point in time (P585) location (P276) P119 place of burial
foundation or creation point in time (P585) 571 time of foundation or creation User:John F. Lewis location (P276) P740 formation location/ place of foundation
Biology taxon name publication point in time (P585) 574 time of taxon name publication User:John F. Lewis
discovery (Q753297) point in time (P585) 575 time of discovery User:John F. Lewis
  • P65
  • P189
  • site of astronomical discovery
  • discovery place
dissolution (Q18603731) point in time (P585) 576 time of dissolution User:Delusion23
publication point in time (P585) 577 time of publication User:Snipre P291 place of publication
Aircraft maiden flight (Q1362364) point in time (P585) 606 time of first flight User:Joshbaumgartner start location? end location?
Spacecraft space launch (Q7572593) point in time (P585) 619 time of spacecraft launch User:Ivan A. Krestinin location (P276) P448 launch site
Space craft landing (Q844947) point in time (P585) 620 time of spacecraft landing User:Docu location (P276) P1158 landing site
Spacecraft spacecraft decay (Q18603851) point in time (P585) 621 time of spacecraft decay User:Docu
Spacecraft spacecraft docking/undocking point in time (P585) 622 time of spacecraft docking/undocking User:Docu
service entry point in time (P585) 729 time of service entry User:John F. Lewis
service retirement point in time (P585) 730 time of service retirement User:John F. Lewis
Person disappearance (Q18603733) point in time (P585) 746 time of disappearance User:Nightwish62
retrieval point in time (P585) 813 time of retrieval User:Ajraddatz
first performance point in time (P585) 1191 time of first performance User:Jakec
Person "flourishing" point in time (P585) or start time (P580) and end time (P582) 1317 floruit User:Jakec P937 work location
official opening point in time (P585) 1619 time of official opening User:Tobias1984 P542 officially opened by
Person baptism (Q35856) point in time (P585) 1636 time of baptism User:Ayack
Film filming point in time (P585) or start time (P580) and end time (P582) P915 filming location
Manufactured item assembly/production point in time (P585) or start time (P580) and end time (P582) location (P276) P1071 place made/assembly location, place built manufacturer
journey start location? P1427 journey origin/ starting place of this journey
Company/commune/country change of ownership (Q14903979) point in time (P585) 'from', 'to'
Company/commune/country name change (Q14904150) point in time (P585) 'from', 'to'
Company/commune/country spin-off (Q15865002) point in time (P585)
Company/commune/country merge (Q17853087) point in time (P585)
Person amputation (Q477415) point in time (P585)
Person funeral (Q201676) point in time (P585) location (P276)
Person drafting P647 drafted by
Creative work première (Q204854)
Building/infrastructure/monument groundbreaking (Q1068633) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument cornerstone (Q1133673) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument construction (Q385378) start time (P580), end time (P582)
Building/infrastructure/monument topping out (Q1075723) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument inauguration (Q1417098) and/or dedication (Q1762010) and/or consecration (Q125375) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument opening (Q15051339) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument renovation (Q2144402) start time (P580), end time (P582)
Building/infrastructure/monument closure (Q14954904) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument demolition (Q331483) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument reopening (Q16571590) point in time (P585)
Building/infrastructure/monument relocation (Q2918584) point in time (P585) start location?, end location?
Building/infrastructure/monument destruction (Q17781833) start time (P580), end time (P582) has cause (P828) cause of destruction (P770) this qualifier is important for accidental destruction not for planned demolition.
Car/plane/Computer/item presentation (Q604733) point in time (P585) location (P276)
Car/plane/Computer/item production (Q739302) (see Production or distribution ?) start time (P580), end time (P582) location (P276)
Ship order (Q566889) point in time (P585)
Ship keel laying (Q14592615) point in time (P585)
Ship ship naming and launching (Q596643) point in time (P585)
Ship shipbuilding (Q474200) end time (P582)
Ship ship commissioning (Q14475832) point in time (P585)
Ship destruction (Q17781833) start time (P580), end time (P582) location (P276) has cause (P828) cause of destruction (P770) is important for accidental destruction, not for planned demolition.
Ship ship decommissioning (Q7497952) point in time (P585) location (P276)
Ship retirement (Q946865) point in time (P585) location (P276)
Ship ship disposal (Q7497950) point in time (P585)
Ship scuttling (Q1786766) point in time (P585)
Ship ship breaking (Q336332) start time (P580), end time (P582) location (P276)
Wealth donating P1028 donated by
oathing P543 oath made by
lighting a torch P545 torch lit by
Person nominating for an award P1411 nominated for
Geography claiming a territory P1336 territory claimed by
Something using something P1535 used by
Theory proving P1318 proved by
Person ordination of a bishop/consecration P1598 consecrator
Manufactured item printing P872 printed by
Statement disputing a statement P1310 disputed by
Question solving a question P1136 solved by
Statue ... unveiling P1656 unveiled by
Person education (Q8434) location (P276) 69 educated at P1066 student of

Discussion[edit]

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment @Andrea Shan: With this system, how would you specify the type of relation between the item and the event ? For instance, a birth is a significant event for both the mother and the newborn. How would I know who is who ? How would I be able to query this information ? Will a query about women born in 1950 also return the list of women that gave birth that year ? --Casper Tinan (talk) 10:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Good point, I hoped there would be a solution and maybe there is: At Q320, a woman, has several significant events with item "childbirth (Q34581)". So the event as seen from the child could use "birth", or an extra item is created for that. Alternatively one could use "role=mother" on the mother page and "role=child" on the child page, then there is also no more need for defining the natural mother in another property. Andrea Shan (talk) 10:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Your first proposal implies having two items to describe a single event. It is strictly impractical. The second one would work provided we are able to query qualifiers, which would not be the case before a long time. Casper Tinan (talk) 12:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Casper Tinan The first proposal is already in use. Mothers don't use "birth". One can use "birth" on the child item and the date would be, when the item is born. If "birth" is used on the mother site, then in her role as a child. Andrea Shan (talk) 13:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Andrea Shan:I was making the assumption that significant event (P793) would be used to link items to instances of events, as it is suggested in the property's label, rather than to classes of events. With the current practice, you have to enter twice the information (date, location) about the birth and if there is an error, you have to correct the two statements, which are not directly linked. And it is worse with events with more participants such as a rugby union international match, which may be the first international match of some players, the last for some others and the largest victory of the winning team. Casper Tinan (talk) 18:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep: now that we can added statements to properties, the mapping can be added there and the above properties kept.
Besides, qualifiers can't be queried in the near and distant future. Thus the way to go should be make specific properties rather than to attempt to use a single property for everything. --- Jura 11:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
You seem to ignore
  • the translation issue
  • that with keeping some event-type-specific properties, and at the same time keeping "significant event" there are two systems, by adopting the proposal there would only be one
  • the maintenance issue, creating an unknown number of event specific properties, each as date and as location.
  • the expressiveness issue and cultural bias issue - normal users cannot create designated properties and if they don't think that something like "significant event" exists, because on many pages the specific properties are used, then they may feel uncomfortable.
If qualifiers "can't be queried" then it would not be possible they are displayed. Maybe you mean via API. Then this should be fixed ASAP. Andrea Shan (talk) 12:14, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Andrea Shan: Developer said «Querying for sources or qualifiers not to be done». I don't know the reason (technical feasibility or resource). --ValterVB (talk) 20:15, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
For the other points mentioned by Andrea, it seems that I might as well ignore them as they can apply also to the solution proposed by Andrea. An exception might be a "Translation issue", as I don't understand what that may be in this context. --- Jura 07:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
@ValterVB. Qualifies can be queried in the current API: we can use the qualifiers to filter data. So for the step 2 of wikidata developement, for the infoboxes or text query, there is no problem. The problem of the development is to define a tool for the query of lists. So if it is possible to query for one person its birth date stored with significant event (P793), it is not forseen to do the same to extract a list of all persons born in 1980 for example. There is no technical difficulty but only a two steps process to develop because filtering with qualifiers implies first to get a list of items corresponding to a certain parameter (all person item with a birth date value) and then to filter again that list with a second parameter (all person item with a birth date equals to 1980). Snipre (talk) 11:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Of course, I was referring to the creation of lists. For single item no problem, we already use on it.wiki with Lua. Sorry for misunderstanding and thanks for the explanation --ValterVB (talk) 12:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment We can't add source to qualifier. So if I have a source for "date of birth" and a different source for "place of birth", how we can manage? Another example is "start date" and "end date" for "marriage". --ValterVB (talk) 08:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
That means all statements in qualifiers are without source? Could that be a severe shortcoming of the software? One could create two claims for birth, the first with a date and the related sources, the second with the place and the related sources. Currently if there are differing claims for time (T1, T2) and location (L1, L2) the claims are spread and hard to connect. Maybe in reality all sources either claim T1+L2 or T2+L1 are correct. Either he died at 9:05 in the entrance of the building or 9:15 in his room. Aren't there also different kinds of death, clinical death (clinical death (Q1989450)), brain death (brain death (Q223867)), legal death? So, would one create date of clinical death, date of brain death, date of legal death and location of clinical death, location of brain death, location of legal death? And another set for "cause" ... cause of clinical death, cause of ... It seems specialized time of/date of properties simply don't scale. Frank Robertson (talk) 12:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata statement.svg
Yes, you can add source to the claim but you can't add source to the qualifier. I don't think is possible to change. @Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): --ValterVB (talk) 15:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

P19 and P20 on Einstein page with claims about location of the location:

91.9.127.22 15:57, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

@ValterVB, Jura1, Andrea Shan: The new query tool integrates qualifiers in the search. See the documentation here. This is available in the last weekly summary. Snipre (talk) 17:00, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
This isn't for the same functions. --- Jura 18:32, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Jura Sorry I don't understand your remark: we don't need the same function, who was asking that ? The only question is can we query value using qualifiers and the answer is yes. We don't have the same functions for time or coordinates values and this is not a problem.. Snipre (talk) 13:34, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg Keep I can change my opinion when we will can add source to qualifiers. --ValterVB (talk) 19:34, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
ValterVB You don't need to be able to add sources to qualifiers: you can add several statements for the same event like birth with each time a different qualifier and the corresponding source. Snipre (talk) 13:28, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
ValterVB By the way how can you describe several marriages with the current system (2 marriages with two different persons at different dates and different locations) ? Only the qualifiers system can solve this problem. Snipre (talk) 13:28, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
@Snipre: Like in Elizabeth Taylor (Q34851). See at spouse (P26) I can add a source for every spouse. --ValterVB (talk) 17:11, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
@ValterVB: So why can't you do the same with significant event property ? The spouse property is similar to significant event and use qualifiers to provide more information and sources. And how do you specifiy the marriage locations for all these marriages ? Snipre (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
@Snipre: You suggest something like this? (on test.wikidata). --ValterVB (talk) 13:50, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
@ValterVB: More like that. Snipre (talk) 20:04, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment In that radical generality of the proposal Wikidata does need almost no properties at all: Just one for each datatype and compounds of it (like (time interval X place one X place two) for "events"), anything else is dealt with by qualifiers derived from Q-items. Also part of the discussion here is about the feasibility (and desirability) of a dedicated event data type: It would keep places and dates closer together for the price of loosing the ability to hold qualifiers for the "atomic" constituents (like source statements). For many existing properties then it is open to discussion whether they are two singular events involved at the start rsp. end of an interval (like birth/death, vernissage/finissage) or rather one event (life, exhibition): Seems to depend on the point of view but for the sake of the data model one should stick to one of the possibilities... -- Gymel (talk) 10:09, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Gymel you don't understand the problem of the event items: event can be defined by time, location, persons, actions,... All these characteristics have to be linked together. So if this can be done by the event name like for birth which occurs only once, in case of marriage this system can't work. You can have different marriages with different marriage locations. Only statements with qualifiers can handle these cases so we have to focus on this system. Then can we work with two systems one using qualifiers and the second using several properties ? No so best is to work with only the qualfier system. Snipre (talk) 13:28, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Sure I see the limits of single, unqualified properties for non-unique events. However it is the question whether a "married-to" property qualified by a point of time (or an interval) and whatever one deems important (location, ...) is more desirable or an "significant event" property qualified by a generic "type of event" with Q-item "marriage": The proposal taken to the extreme ends up with a version of wikidata with very few generic properties in alignment with datatypes plus a handful generic properties for use as qualifiers and the "semantic flesh" is shifted from properties to q-items as objects of generic properties. This definitely would be even more flexible but I think very different from the original design of wikidata. -- Gymel (talk) 19:31, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Gymel It is not a question of small amount of properties or big amount of properties. It is a question of structuring data which are together using a way to connect them together. If you create two single properties for birth date and birth location, how do you connect these two properties which are elements of the same event ? You will have to specify somewhere in your system that these two properties are related. The problem is the connection bewteen data related to the same topic. And the only way to solve this is the qualifier system. It is not a choice, this is currently the only way to link data about the same event. And if the case of the birth or the death is simple, the case of the marriage shows the limits of the all properties system: if a event can occur several times you have to multiply the properties. Just a pratical example: one person is getting married 2 times, one event occuring several times. I don't want to discuss about what should be wikidata or was the original design of wikidata. I just want from you your explanations about how to model these data:
  • Q item: John Doe
  • statement 1: marriage with Calamity Janes in Paris the 2. February 2004. Divorced the 23. March 2007
  • statement 2: marriage with Mini Mouse in London the 15. June 2009.
Snipre (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
There are many possibilities and I do not have a preference there:
  1. a marriage-as-punctual-event property with the spouse as value and qualifiers for date and place plus an annotation for the "corresponding" divorce
  2. a marriage-as-period-of-time property with a time interval and corresponding points in space for the temporal endpoints and a qualifier for the type of termination
  3. the foregoing marriage properties qualified by values of a compound point-in-space-time or path-in-space-time datatype (taking values of eg. (London; 15. June 2009) or ((Paris; 2. February 2004) .. (unknown; 23. March 2007))
  4. a generic "significant-event" property with one or several properties as above for the corresponding space-time coordinates and a qualifier for "marriage" as the type of event. In natural language this would correspond to reducing the number of verbs in favor of adverbial or passivic constructions (attributes of bureaucratic language)
  5. similar to exhibitions as "institutionalized events" a q-item for any single marriage carrying "ordinary" properties for start and end points, locations and the persons involved (this may be the only solution which can be extended to polyamourous group marriages?). This is not as absurd a construction as it might first seem, cf. en:Presidency of Bill Clinton, an "event" which coupled the person Bill Clinton and the U.S. Government or the United States for a certain interval in time. We might borrow the notion of "reification" for this approach.
I still think we are dealing with two rather distinct questions here: How to cope with non-atomic data types (like the coupling of place and date with the additional difficulty of recording individual sources or annotations for each of the atoms) and about specific properties vs. very generic ones "typed" by q-items (you can express anything you want without introducing new properties but successful querying might more than before depend on rigorous and exhaustive subclass-relations on the space of q-items). -- Gymel (talk) 22:11, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete per Snipre
  • data related: 1) 13:28, 25 December 2014 2) 20:21, 25 December 2014 the marriage example - significant-event is the only way to connect properties (location, time, participants) of events of a type that can occur several times.
  • tool related: 1) 17:00, 22 December 2014 - new query tool
WK7489 (talk) 12:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Qualifiers allow you to attach statements to another statement (the base claim). Think of this as a graph edge, with an anonymous (blank) node in the middle of it: qualifiers make statements against this blank node. But they can do this only 1-level deep. There may be situations when we need to go deeper, eg:

  • different source statements for different aspects of the same event (blank node)
  • statements about different authors and dates of handwriting on the same page of a manuscript (if it's significant they're on the same page)

From this point of view, qualifiers are neither necessary, nor sufficient approach to modeling general graphs. (Which doesn't mean I think they are not useful!) Being something of an ontology engineer, I like the more generic approach proposed in this section. On the other hand, ithas practical considerations, eg:

  • RDF export of qualified claims is much more complicated. "Introducing Wikidata to the Linked Data Web" fig3 shows the complex (read "ugly") way in which qualifiers are reified. We're currently using the "simple export" that doesn't export qualified claims, and not yet considering the full export.
  • Validation gets more complex, eg "birth should be before death" or "floruit is applicable only to Human".

The Getty person thesaurus (ULAN) has a structure "Event", nevertheless it treats birth&death date&place separately. I guess that's for pragmatic reasons: we want most persons to have recorded birth&date, while the Events are optional ("nice to have"). Overall, I think I support the proposal, but I think the decision is far from simple. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Idea to merge all properties to single sound good in theory. But real practice showed that too generic properties have tendency to become unstructured heap of strange claims. For example station code (P296) or coordinate location (P625). So my position is Symbol keep vote.svg Keep individual properties and think about deleting significant event (P793). Also this discussion is needed to be speedy closed by formal reason: steps declared in this page header was not executed. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 20:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

influence of (P738)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs) This property is a clear reversed duplicate of influenced by (P737) (and is actually stated to be so). Besides it is impossible to manage in a good number of cases: while a person can only be influenced by a limited number of people during his/her whole lifetime, the reverse is not true, and some influential thinkers can have a wide number of followers. Listing all the items influenced by Plato (Q859) or Jesus Christ (Q302) is going to be a major headache. Alexander Doria (talk) 17:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Symbol keep vote.svg Lean keep. Alexander, what you label a "reversed duplicate" is typically called an "inverse". These are often useful and widespread on the Semantic Web. I wouldn't lead an argument for deletion with that rationale.
Your point about the huge number of potential claims that could be made with this property is worth considering, though. Adding each philosopher influenced by Plato to Plato (Q859) via influence of would clearly be a bad idea. However, I think looking at Plato's infobox in various Wikipedias indicates a possible solution to that problem:
Influenced by: Socrates, Homer, Hesiod, Aristophanes, Aesop, Protagoras, Parmenides, Pythagoras, Heraclitus, Orphism
Influence of: Most of Western philosophy (Q842333) that came after his works
Influenced by: Pre-Socratic philosophy, Socrates, Greco-Roman mysteries, Orphism
Influence of: Much of Western philosophy; part of Islamic philosophy (Q193104)
Influenced by: Socrates, Archytas, Democritus, Parmenides, Pythagoras, Heraclitus
Influence of: Aristotle, almost all European and Middle Eastern philosophers
In other words, for very influential things, simply have the value of influence of be a movement of which their influencees were a part. Then if we want to do inference down the road, we could look up or deduce the influencee's movement (P135) (or what have you), and infer that the influencer satisfies a large number of more specific influence of claims. Emw (talk) 01:15, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
I really don't see the need for an inverse (and I have already seen several successful PfD done on this ground). The WikidataQuery API already allows to do the exact same thing using influenced by (P737) : you can retrieve all the philosophers that claims to be influenced by Plato. We are merely doing the same work twice.
And I'm unconvinced by your solution: Most of Western philosophy is quite fuzzy. There are actually numerous influential western philosophical movements that do not claim an influence from Plato (Epicureanism, Cartenianism, Positivism…). It's really more suitable to only use influenced by (P737) and get all the results in a reverse way.
Alexander Doria (talk) 11:49, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia cannot use Wikidataquery to display info. Note that some widely used infoboxes like en:Template:Infobox scientist contain "influenced" fields. fr:Module:Infobox/Philopsophe makes use of this property as a default, though so far with no hits (fr:Catégorie:Page utilisant des données de Wikidata/P738).
When an item is not a "big influencer" (say, is p737 value in less than 10 items), a bot should update it automatically. When there are many potential values, I am not too sure what to do.--Zolo (talk) 13:09, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Nova Scotia Register of Historic Places identifier (P909)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

The Internet register of historic place of the province aparently disapear last year [4]. The site of the Heritage Property link now only to the Canadian Register of Historic Places[5] (Canadian Register of Historic Places identifier (P477))..--Fralambert (talk) 04:39, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Symbol keep vote.svg Keep that something disappears is not a reason to delete it from Wikidata. E.g. there is Julius Caesar (Q1048). WK7489 (talk) 12:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete, better to delete disappeared databases because they are not useful but misleading. --Stryn (talk) 12:55, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment personally I'd tend to keep it, but it seems only rarely used and its proposer thinks it should be deleted. --- Jura 17:22, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

language of work (P407)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

By using the FRBR system we don't need anymore two properties to describe language of a work: one language propery is enough per item in case of work and translated edition. The original language of the work can be retrieved from the language property of the work item for every translated edition. This implies for sure the possibility to access to several items from one WP article, but as this feature is in development we can already prepare the merge of these two properties. Snipre (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I see there is a lot of good arguments, but the two properties can´t be merged easily. In cases where p 364 is uses as it should be, it must be deleted and secured that p 364 is added to the corresponding work item. In many (thousands) of other cases p364 is used not the way as it is intended instead of p407. So p364 is messed up much more than p 407. I find the concept of p407 is easier to understand, so I suggest to change the RFD round to delete p364 instead, no matter how often the property is used. Once it is done properly, a bot can change the number within hours.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

station number (P1655)[edit]

(delete | history | links | logs | discussion)

Duplicate of station code (P296).--86.6.111.107 22:44, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Symbol delete vote.svg Delete--DangSunM (talk)
I must say: Symbol keep vote.svg Keep, except if the Single value and Unique value limits of station code (P296)
can be cancelled
. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed it looks like they are not quite duplicated. ·addshore· talk to me! 12:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
They seem to be different, but to me it's not entirely clear which code they're supposed to be. There are several code systems for railway station (UIC, IBNR, IFOPT, german railway (DS100, including stations from other countries), swiss railway (DIDOK, including stations from other countries), austrian railway, …) out there. My guess is that P296 is something russian, P722 is either UIC or IBNR and P1655 something korean. So we need a clarification on them and new properties for the remaining code systems. --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 22:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, codes of a station are mixable, even if that's not an interchange station (Q1147171). So let's restart the PFD of station code (P296) if no tldr. The IBNR property is IBNR identifier (P954). --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Pokédex number (P1112)[edit]

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Wrong datatype; should be String, not Number (Quantity). Ebe123 (talk | contributions) 01:41, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

  • If the Pokemon Browser is a subclass of the Pokedex, wouldn't it be better to migrate the subclass into the main class and to correct Pokédex number (P1112)?(Additional, numbers of Pokémon browser number (P1685) aren't consistent.)--Koltars (talk) 20:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Yes, it could be done that way. My thinking was that as the Pokémon Browser number is a String and that the existant values are still valid (they all have a qualifier), we could merge the Pokédex number in P1685 and rename it to Pokédex number. That would save some work moving all values (we'll only have to do some). Ebe123 (talk | contributions) 22:59, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Retrospectively, I think I shouldn't have supported the creation of Pokémon browser number (P1685) as it's actually more efficient to have separate properties for each numbering scheme.
For this property, string would be the datatype we use for these. So yes, support deletion and re-creation with that type. --- Jura 07:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

architectural style (P149)[edit]

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No tangible benefit from using this property rather than movement (P135). As written in Property talk:P149: The only difference beteween the two properties is that architectural style (P149) is restricted to some classes of items but that does not seem very useful. In practice, p135 is also used for buildings anyway (compare fr:Catégorie:Page utilisant des données de Wikidata/P149‎ and fr:Catégorie:Page utilisant des données de Wikidata/P135). --Zolo (talk) 11:24, 1 February 2015 (UTC).--Zolo (talk) 11:24, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

How is it too vague ? If we say that the movement of monument is neogothic, what can it mean except that architectural style is neogothic ? --Zolo (talk) 16:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
"movement of a monument is neogothic" require a lot of imagination to make any sense. It maybe works semantically, but it's not an obvious choice for an amateur. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:55, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
@Innocent bystander: Just add an alias or change the label. TomT0m (talk) 15:24, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Agree, but to what? The problem is that I cannot find any good word that fits one area, but would not be misleading for others and vice versa. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:30, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Maybe we could expand P135 for politics as well. "Movement" fits well there ;) --- Jura 20:36, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Slovene Cultural Heritage designation (P1597)[edit]

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Seem to be a national based duplicate of heritage status (P1435).--Fralambert (talk) 23:39, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Symbol delete vote.svg DeleteAyack (talk) 07:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Symbol delete vote.svg Delete - Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:46, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
As the proposer, I don't object deletion if the idea is to use heritage status (P1435) for all heritage (although someone could've notified me about this request), just please make sure to migrate all the uses before deleting - my bot requests tend to be ignored. Thank you. — Yerpo Eh? 08:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Right now, there are 1543 items that have this property. Would be a job for a bot to move them? Edoderoo (talk) 11:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Tanks Yerpo. Il beleived by the form of the deletion request that you where directly notified. Il will do directly next time on the page of people who voted for the property. --Fralambert (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

IPA (P898)[edit]

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Proposal: convert data type of property "IPA" from string to monolingual string.
  • We need to indicate the language IPA refers to. Even if it's not ideal, the data type "monolingual string" has a feature for that. --- Jura 08:02, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. I oppose this property existing in the first place, as it's very clearly Wiktionary-oriented linguistic data rather than actual data regarding the entity, but if it is to exist, it shouldn't be misusing the monolingualtext datatype to indicate the language of something other than the string itself. Use a qualifier instead. --Yair rand (talk) 10:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

beats per minute (P1725)[edit]

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This property should not restrict the units in which its values are given. This property should be named "tempo" and with the datatype of quantity with units as opposed to number. "Beats per minute" is a unit of tempo, not the physical quantity itself. Using "beats per minute" on music instead of "tempo" would be analogous to using "maximum kilometers per hour" for an airplane instead of "maximum speed". Not all music use "beats per minute" as a measurement of tempo and not all references to statements will use bpm. —Wylve (talk) 05:08, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

  • Symbol delete vote.svg Delete --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 11:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep until the new datatype is here where it can be smoothly converted to a "tempo" property. I know this cannot influence the result of this discussion but I worked hard the other day adding this property to items. --AmaryllisGardener talk 13:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep the suggested replacement datatype is not available. --- Jura 13:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep BPM has no units, by definition. It is a number. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:20, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Wrong, the unit is min-1 like frequency. You can count per minute or per second so you should be able to distinguish between different types of measure.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Snipre (talk • contribs) at 14:25, 11 March 2015‎ (UTC).
  • Symbol delete vote.svg Delete We have to create a general property for all frequency measurements (revolution per minute in case of motor, oscillation for wavelength,...) so the best is to create one frequency property as numeric datatype and to use it in music field like in other fields. Snipre (talk) 14:25, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
    I actually don't agree with the comment regarding a general property, but that's not a discussion for here (primarily that revolutions for example are not dimensionless). --Izno (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
    Izno Please give arguments: it is always easier to understand the position of each contributor with some argumentation. Then take the definition of frequency: "Frequency is the number of occurrences of a repeating event per unit time" see here. In mechanics we speak about rpm (revolution per minute) and in music about bpm (beats per minute) but at the end this is the same kind of measurement: beat and revolution are not units, there are events. The question is then if we need to create different properties for each way to use a measurement. My question is then what is the problem to use frequency for music ? Just a small comment in the project music and on the property page saying that this property is used in music to describe the tempo. Using this system we give once the opportunity to musicians to understand what is bpm in term of scientific and standard definition.
    Then if we use WP to understand a little more about bpm, you will find that bpm is a unit of tempo (see here). So the minimal thing is to create a property tempo as numeric data type if you don't want to use a frequency property. Snipre (talk) 13:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Gray's Anatomy 1918 subject (P1698)[edit]

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Not required.--Filceolaire (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

See discussion on Property Proposal - Gray's Anatomy 1918 page. This is a property that links to the code number that yahoo uses for a chapter in their online edition of the 1918 edition of Grays anatomy. It is not the chapter name and it is not used by other online editions (which use the page numbers) and it is no longer available from Yahoo (though it can still be accessed via web.archive.org). See frontal lobe ( Q749520) for an alternative using described by source ( P1343). Filceolaire (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Oh thanks Filceolaire proposing this. I don't oppose this, but please wait. Even if we delete this, I think it is better to delete after the discussion settled and bot did work (e.g. coping the data to other section). Now we are discussing about "in what format we should save these data" from technical point of view (at property proposal linked above and Wikidata module talk page). --Was a bee (talk) 18:58, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Not a problem. These deletion discussions can take months and even after a decision to delete is taken the property is not deleted until all the statements using it are deleted first - we just change the property name to add "(deprecated)". Filceolaire (talk) 17:21, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Symbol delete vote.svg Delete After data transfer according to discussion. Snipre (talk) 18:25, 25 March 2015 (UTC)