Wikidata:Project chat

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Wikidata project chat
Place used to discuss any and all aspects of Wikidata: the project itself, policy and proposals, individual data items, technical issues, etc.
Please take a look at the frequently asked questions to see if your question has already been answered.
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On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2014/12.

Extortion or Blackmailing?[edit]

Can someone please me to clearify the distinction between extortion (Q6452087) and blackmail (Q34284) and sort out the messy interwiki? /ℇsquilo 19:37, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer and I did not unterstand languages. I have looked at de,fr,en,sv: Google translator says that fr and de Chantage blackmail (Q34284) subclass of (P279) extortion (Q6452087) Chantage is Extortion with a distrubution of informations about the victim of the Chantage. w:sv:Utpressning seems to be similar to fr/de Chantage, but I am not sure if the sv:Utpressing meanings includes extortion with other harm like violence too. blackmail (Q34284) seems to be splitted. I guess en Blackmail ist not equal to fr/de Chantage. --Diwas (talk) 21:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC) PS: w:it:Estorsione blackmail (Q34284) seems maybe similar to en:blackmail blackmail (Q34284) or to en/de/fr/... extortion (Q6452087) but not to fr/de chantage blackmail (Q34284).
That's a general problem with legal terms, as legal definitions of offenses vary a lot between countries, and so do legal terms. What is covered by one legal term in one country could be split into two distinct offenses in another. So in many cases, it might have been okay to link articles to articles about similar legal concepts in other languages, but from a database POV, it's probably not a really good idea to try to somehow stuff them all into one data set. -- 05:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes the words "extortion" and "blackmail" are used interchangeably in colloquial English. But more precisely, "extortion" (as in extortion (Q6452087)) is generally any demand with coercion (Q325980): it can use any threat; it might have the threat of violence or it might threaten in some other way. I would say that extortion (Q6452087) <subclass of (P279)  coercion (Q325980), at least in English. Some kinds of extortion (in the general sense, not necessarily legal sense):

  • "Blackmail" (as in blackmail (Q34284)) is more specific extortion: The threat is to spread embarrassing information, and the information might be true or not.
  • racket (Q1283181) is almost always extortion (Q6452087), though sometimes the victim does not know it: The victim might know that the criminal is involved with the source of the problem, or the victim might not know, and instead think that the problem is caused by something else.
  • ransom (Q1414572): a person or thing is kept (usually kidnapping (Q318296) or theft (Q2727213)) until demands are satisfied

There are many types of extortion (and similar behavior) listed at en:Extortion#Similar crimes. But of course that is for English. Maybe coercion (Q325980) is the broadest term. (Also, there is duress (Q1192757), which is a legal defense, saying that the perpetrator was a victim of coercion (Q325980).) I have seen instances on Wikidata where English-language concepts are subclasses of German-language concepts that have no English-language label; that may be useful here, but requires someone fluent in more than one language. --Closeapple (talk) 14:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

"Erpressung" in German is something the perpetrator does to achieve a certain reaction of the victim. The perpetrator threatens to spread an information or to harm the victim or a relative. The perpetrator holds a child of the victim hostage to achieve money from the victim, this is a typical case of Erpressung. Blackmailing has a colloquial equivalent in German "Anschwärzen" = denigrate. There is no specific legal term for it, but if it comes to court it is "Verleumdung", however the perpetrator must tell lies or twist the truth to get convicted. You can not get convicted by telling the truth about a secret affair or something similar. Erpressung can represent the threat of spreading unwanted Information, Verleumdung represents the action of spreading lies an twisted information. The main difference between a case of Erpressung and a case of Verleumdung is the threat and the action.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 13:48, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Blackmail is such an ugly word... (TV tropes) -- Jheald (talk) 13:54, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Bug when adding links to Wikinews[edit]

For example: when I try to add n:ru:Категория:Крымские татары to Crimean Tatars (Q117458) interface gives the error: "The specified article could not be found on the corresponding site. The external client site 'ruwikinews' did not provide page information for page 'Категория:Крымские татары'". Fix it please. --sasha (krassotkin) 09:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Did you try to add the link to Q117458#sitelinks-wikinews? Also, ruwikinews page seems to be a category, so I don't think that it belongs on that item. --Stryn (talk) 14:11, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Colleagues, how things are going with this? We have to stop all work:(. --sasha (krassotkin) 10:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

In addition. Now I could not add regular article n:ru:Беларусь восстановила таможни на границе с Россией (from mainspace) to Q18636241 (Q18636241). As idea. Maybe this is due to enable HTTPS by default for all users in Russian Wikinews as the first project? See: n:ru:Русские Викиновости перешли на HTTPS, Gerrit Commit; also: meta:HTTPS/Beta program. --sasha (krassotkin) 16:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I think this is a bug, but not sure. I also get errors on adding ruwikinews (no errors on enwikinews, kowikinews) sitelinks. — Revi 04:25, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Allow redirect pages to be added?[edit]

With the tree species en:Pappea capensis, I cannot add the English page to wikidata "Pappea capensis", as the genus is monotypic, and it clashes with the genus. The consequence is that all the pages about this species do not link up. I thought that in these cases one should allow the redirect page "Pappea capensis" to be added to wikidata. JMK (talk) 14:00, 9 December 2014 (UTC) must decide if they want connect to the genus or if want connect to the species. Wikidata provides both. --ValterVB (talk) 18:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
there is a bug for this on Phabricator - T54564. Filceolaire (talk) 20:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
If I connect to species, then all the genus pages do not link up. And if I connect to genus, then the species pages do not link up. Sorry ValterVB, but I don't see that as the solution. JMK (talk) 15:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
There is no guarantee that this sort of issue can be resolved in any way, using redirects or otherwise. Whether a genus is unispecific is a matter of a taxonomic viewpoint, and it is well established that taxonomic viewpoints are subject to change. Likely the best that could be achieved would be if every Wikipedia would have both a genus and a species page. However, the pragmatic short-term solution would be to put all the iw-links on the species page; this happens a lot. It is not perfect, but we live in an imperfect world. - Brya (talk) 18:43, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
I think that the proposal at Wikidata:Requests for comment/One vs. several sitelink-item correspondence#Use a property will be able to solve it. Petr Matas 20:12, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Joseph Dana Webster/ civil war general/ chief of staff U.S.Grant and Sherman[edit]

His family history can be found at this information is in library of congress under John Webster 1634

Optimising the main page for mobile![edit]

The mobile web team at the Wikimedia Foundation are keen to optimise Wikidata for mobile. We've enabled a mobile site which is currently not being redirected to so we can quickly iterate and give a good mobile experience to your projects readers.

The main page is one issue and I've got some fixes I'd like to propose. Copy User:Jdlrobson/minerva.css and then view to see my proposed mobile optimised version of your main page.

This fix is simple. Apply to WikiData:MainPage/Content/en and friends and add the rule in User:Jdlrobson/minerva.css to MediaWiki:Common.css

I'd also suggest someone edits Wikidata:Main_Page/Contact so that it doesn't use a table as this doesn't render nicely either with the above improvements.

Please let me know if you have any questions. Mobile could prove to be very important to the future of Wikidata and I'm excited to help support it! Jdlrobson (talk) 21:19, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

"Last edited 13 hours ago by Jdlrobson" is nothing for a serious website. Serious would be to give time in UTC, e.g. last edited 2014-12-13 15:30:24". 10:09, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
@ Would you like to open a bug for it on phabricator ( so we can discuss this? :) If you haven't an account (and won't create one) let me know it and i will create the task :) Thanks! --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 12:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Also this is actually not related to my request... that's just part of MobileFrontend and is what is currently live on English Wikipedia and every other one of our websites. This modification will also help Vector on smaller screens and is really simple so can I get any help adding it? :-) Jdlrobson (talk) 17:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit request: Gadget-Move.js[edit]

I have made a fix for the Move gadget, please apply the changes. At least moving one sitelink at a time works now. Petr Matas 22:21, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done, Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 22:23, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
@Petr Matas: Just remember in the future, the Administrators' noticeboard may be a more appropriate place for edit requests. --AmaryllisGardener talk 00:45, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
And the use of {{Editprotected}}  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:13, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
{{Editprotected}} does not seem to receive much attention, whereas the request made here was fulfilled in 2 minutes. But I think that it is a good idea to use it and, if nothing happens, go to AN. Petr Matas 13:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Unintentional removal of statements in version (P348)[edit]

The problem that users are replacing old versions with new versions, instead of adding a new statement still persists (e.g. Is there any way to patrol these changes? It would be even nicer if the interface would prompt users that want to replace statements with a warning message. @Okki: Just pinging you, because your in my example. --Tobias1984 (talk) 16:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Someone could write an abuse filter where someone is editing that property type, and return a custom message.  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984, billinghurst: I think it is possible to write it in this case. But there is too much to do with AF. Let's start new page Wikidata:Abuse filter and continue there. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 11:28, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Cycles in parent taxon (P171) tree?[edit]

I've noticed the taxonomy tree seems to have cycles in "parent taxon" property, e.g.: Q122422 -> Q728299 -> Q134665 -> Q2254408 -> Q122422. Is it intended or is it some mistake? I thought "parent" relationship should not contain cycles... --Smalyshev (WMF) (talk) 10:34, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

It could be due to preferred or depreciated statements in parent taxon (P171).
Anyways, wikified version of your sample: Squamata (Q122422) -> Lepidosauria (Q728299) -> Lepidosauromorpha (Q134665) -> Sauria (Q2254408) -> Squamata (Q122422). --- Jura 10:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe this revert gives some explanation. And I removed this claim. So the cycle should be broken. --Succu (talk) 11:38, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata:Abuse filter[edit]

I have just started a new project page about AbuseFilter because the number of requests is rising. Anyone is welcome to improve the project page and to create the request system (maybe similar as on the English Wikipedia). Matěj Suchánek (talk) 11:37, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

The external client site did not provide page information[edit]

I'm trying to add n:ru:Беларусь восстановила таможни на границе с Россией to Q18636241, but I get an error message: "The specified article could not be found on the corresponding site. The external client site 'ruwikinews' did not provide page information for page 'Беларусь восстановила таможни на границе с Россией'.". It Is Me Here t / c 13:52, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

@Hoo man:, @aude:: I have seen this twice now for Wikinews. Can you have a look if there is something wrong in the configuration maybe? --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Native names of organizations[edit]

Is there an equivalent of name in native language (P1559) for organizations? - - PKM (talk) 19:42, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

official name (P1448) Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 19:51, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! - PKM (talk) 02:42, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
That is not equivalent. Frank Robertson (talk) 20:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Logically, it's not, I agree. But I can use it to solve my current problem (native-language name of a church or museum when EN wiki translates the name). - -PKM (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Workaround for AuthorityControl gadget[edit]

Many users are having troubles with the AuthorityControl gadget and I think that I have found a workaround:

  1. Disable AuthorityControl in your preferences
  2. Add mw.loader.load('ext.gadget.AuthorityControl'); into your common.js

Details: MediaWiki talk:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js#Not working. Petr Matas 04:28, 15 December 2014 (UTC). Update: Petr Matas 15:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, any idea how to rewrite the gadget using formatter URL (P1630) statements rather than a hardcoded list ? --Zolo (talk) 18:06, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
I'll think about it. Probably it won't be very difficult. Petr Matas 23:08, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Fomafix has just done it. Petr Matas 00:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you; that seems to work. Any idea why it's necessary? Also, +1 to what Zolo said. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
It may have something to do with the script loading order and/or dependencies. Does anyone know how to debug the scripts loaded for gadgets enabled in preferences? I can't even find their code in Firefox debugger (see [1] and [2]). Petr Matas 23:08, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Add ?debug=1 to the URL. --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 23:29, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that allows me to debug the gadget (thanks), but at the same time it changes the mode of script loading in such a way that the error does not arise. So, I cannot use this to track down the bug. Petr Matas 00:45, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Merge items[edit]

Category:Pteropodidae (Q8804807), Category of Pteropodidae by common name (Q7024251). I think these two items has to be merged. What you think and how to do that? --Termininja (talk) 12:01, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

No. The topic is the same, but one is a category by common name, the other by scientific name. Some iw-links need to be moved for consistency. - Brya (talk) 12:07, 15 December 2014 (UTC)


I have noticed an issue concerning wikidata items Q191062, Q13461032 and Q5169264 (and possibly others?). Obviously I don't understand most of the languages linked to on those pages but going from some of the easier ones to make out, I found that:

Q191062#sitelinks-wikipedia includes:

Q13461032#sitelinks-wikipedia includes:

Q5169264#sitelinks-wikipedia includes:

The english Wikipedia doesn't have an "operation code" mnemonic article but does mention it at en:Mnemonic (disambiguation). Also, some of the articles may combine several meanings (e.g. eo:Memorhelpilo is linked to Q191062 and is categorized under Psychology, Medicine, Equipment, Cognitive Science, Human Sciences, Society, Educational Psychology and Computer Science). benzband (talk) 12:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Don't hesitate to move the site links to items that seem more suitable. --- Jura 17:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Removing P132[edit]

Hey, I removed about 170K (Will be deleted) type of administrative territorial entity (P132) but in lots of cases we have a P132 that is not in instance of (P31) so it's not possible to just remove P132 but since it maybe in subclass of (P279) hierarchy of P31. Is it okay to copy P132 to P31 and remove them and deal with issues later? (for more discussion see User talk:Dexbot#Dexbot Amir (talk) 21:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Why not? It's a clear improvement, namely getting rid of P132 and improve proper resolving via P31-P279. Removal of any redundant claim is an extra step of improvement. But what is to be removed could be a current P31 or a current P132. 17:36, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
There are at the moment 27000 P132 claims left. 19000 are about köy (Q1529096) and 5000 are about civil parish (Q1115575). In this cases, I think we can replace the P31 value by the P132 value. The remaining 3000 claims I prefer to do it by hand as I don't consider it as an improvement if an item has multiple redundant P31 claims. --Pasleim (talk) 06:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you so much Pasleim. I used your hint to remove the P132 and fix P31 now there are in a very low number (and they're lowering as I write this) Amir (talk) 23:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
@Ladsgroup: There are also 550 items which have P132 in a qualifier [1]. I think these qualifiers can all be removed. --Pasleim (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Finding ORCID identifiers used in Wikidata & Wikipedia[edit]

Apologies to anyone looking for my blog post, Finding ORCID identifiers used in Wikidata & Wikipedia, mentioned in this week's weekly summary, #137, and getting a "403 forbidden" error. My host chose today to kill my website, and their support team have yet to respond. All being well, it should be back online tomorrow. And yes, all the bills have been paid. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

It's back, now. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Such 403 can be avoided by simply posting this little text in Wikidata. So it looks as if you wanted to promote your blog. 17:30, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
@ Please assume good faith and avoid personal attacks. Petr Matas 00:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Make Sandbox more visible[edit]

Hey, I did not know we have a Sandbox here too. I think it would be useful to link to it from the top bar, like the enwiki does. Petr Matas 12:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

There is one more Wikidata Sandbox Testing Testing 1 2 3 (Q4115189), but for different purposes. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
That one and two more sandbox items are referenced from the fixed Sandbox heading. Petr Matas 00:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Painful slow progess - properties for deletion that still are used[edit]

  • Property:P766 (DEPRECATED) event location - 1,182 pages - closed 7 December 2014
  • Property:P45 (OBSOLETE) grandparent - 863 pages - closed 28 December 2013 - !!! Almost one year, ouch.
  • Property:P107 (OBSOLETE) main type (GND) - 77,626 pages - closed 1 October 2013 - !!! More than a year, double ouch.
  • Property:P70 (OBSOLETE) order - 568 pages - closed since 12 February 2014 - will that be around in February 2015?
  • Property:P741 (OBSOLETE) playing hand - 1,546 pages - closed 28 December 2013 - Almost one year, again an ouch.
  • Property:P132 (Will be deleted) type of administrative territorial entity - 27,027 pages - ONE YEAR OF DISCUSSION. closed 7 December 2014 - now again, one user is starting discussing the agreed upon replacement. Not blaming him, since he is one of the few removing many of these deprecated properties. 17:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

On the other side at least P107, P766, P70 and P132 are being worked on right now. There are also P513 and P643 which are deprecated, too. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 18:14, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Based on the issue with qualifiers, P741 should probably be kept. --- Jura 07:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Property:P107 was, and still is, a very widly used property. I believe it was the single most used property when it was proposed for deletion. /ℇsquilo 10:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
This would be a good occasion to create {{Sofixit}} ;-)
But seriously, these properties have been deprecated so these will be deleted eventually. If you think it's important to do this sooner than later, help replace them. I rather have deprecated properties stay around a bit longer so we can properly replace them than having a quick and dirty removing/replacement leaving us with a mess to clean up. Multichill (talk) 11:42, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It's a very long work to change instance of (P31) to (OBSOLETE) main type (GND) (P107) as the values accepted are not the same… 
I've been working on (claim[107:215627] and noclaim[31]) for some time now, but with Autolist that has problems updating (and also wmftool down) it is very slow. Also, many, many items are NOT Q5, so it has to be done manually, one by one… many are also empty items, resulting of uncomplete merges, and quite a lot of them have only chinese, japanese, georgian, or other languages that need a speaker of these language to be understood... to complete this work, a taskforce specialized in translation to English (at least) would be very helpful - since those are generally names :) --Hsarrazin (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── User:Hsarrazin's comment is a good reply showing that User:Multichill's SOFIXIT does not work, since the tools are a mess. Bots could do it all in a day. Regarding "It's a very long work to change instance of (P31) to (OBSOLETE) main type (GND) (P107) as the values accepted are not the same" - That is FUD. Current situation is P70 was deleted less than two hours after thread start. The others are still there. 14:49, 19 December 2014 (UTC) @Multichill "I rather have deprecated properties stay around a bit longer so we can properly replace them than having a quick and dirty removing/replacement leaving us with a mess to clean up." - Dirty is to have outdated properties not replaced with what was the result of Properties for Deletion. And the results for all of the above are VERY easy to implement. 14:58, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Dirty is to replace in the following items P107 with P31: Cambridge to Africa (Q5025639), clothing in Mauritius (Q5135571), Climate of the British Isles (Q5133613), Climarice (Q5133387) --Pasleim (talk) 15:15, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Would User:Pasleim substantiate her claim? Why should that be dirty? 15:19, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
It's dirty because it includes propagating of wrong claims and the information gain is zero. To be honest, I think the data quality of P107 is poor. So I would really appreciate it if we have the time to create correct and useful claims instead of blind replacements. BTW, why are you doing such edits [2] [3]?
Would User:Pasleim substantiate her claim that the information gain is zero? I contest it, since it would immediately place items in the P31/P279-tree - there for anyone to perform automated checks on integrity. Regarding the edits - P107 is deprecated and replacing it with P31 or P279 was agreed to be the way. Cleaning up and improving is a completely different task. Not only the data quality of P107 is low, also that of P31 is. 22:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


A bot can do it in a day. Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2013/Properties/4#Property:P45 says 15:14, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree, this replacement could do a bot. --Pasleim (talk) 22:38, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


Look at Q90 - to copy all the values in P132 by hand to P31 takes a lot of time if done via the Wikidata UI. A bot could do it, and editors could spend time on something more useful. 15:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Tool for adding references and data to Wikidata[edit]

Freebase was launched to be a “Wikipedia for structured data”, because in 2007 there was no such project. But now we do have Wikidata, and Wikidata and its community is developing very fast. Today, the goals of Freebase might be better served by supporting Wikidata.

Freebase has seen a huge amount of effort go into it since it went public in 2007. It makes a lot of sense to make the results of this work available to Wikidata. But knowing Wikidata and its community a bit, it is obvious that we can not and should not simply upload Freebase data to Wikidata: Wikidata would prefer the data to be referenced to external, primary sources.

In order to do so, Google will soon start to work on an Open Source tool which will run on Wikimedia labs and which will allow Wikidata contributors to find references for a statement and then upload the statement and the reference to Wikidata. We will release several sets of Freebase data ready for consumption by this tool under a CC0 license. This tool should also work for statements already in Wikidata without sufficient references, or for other datasets, like DBpedia and other machine extraction efforts, etc. To make sure we get it right, we invite you to participate in the design and development of this tool.

I hope you are as excited as I am about this project, and I hope that you will join me in making this a reality. I am looking forward to your contributions! --Denny (talk) 19:24, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Will Wikidata be used for the Google Knowledge Graph? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 19:57, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
The Google Knowledge Graph relies on structured data from all over the Web, and Wikidata is already part of that. --Denny (talk)
@Denny: Will the freebase identifiers still serve a purpose if the site is shut down? Also: Will the former editors of Freebase receive an invitation to join Wikidata? --Tobias1984 (talk) 23:01, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
What do you mean with 'invitation'? Our message post was pretty explicitly pointing to Wikidata - do you mean something else?
The Freebase identifiers will be used to map the entities for the data releases we are planning, so they are quiet crucial for that step. --Denny (talk) 23:47, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
@Denny: I actually meant after the data releases. Will the identifiers still lead to a page in e.g. 5 years? - About the invitations: I thought that maybe anyone with more than 1000 edits on Freebase would get an Email inviting them to Wikidata:WikiProject Freebase. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

new code deployed - language fallbacks and property datatype[edit]

Hey everyone :)

Wow. What a day... Hard to beat that but let me try anyway. We have just deployed new code. This includes a first version of language fallbacks, a new datatype to link to properties, fixes for a nasty focus issue when adding statements and more performance improvements. Language fallbacks so far only work for the linked items and properties in statements. It does not take into account your babel box. The entity selector does not do fallbacks yet. I'd love to have your feedback feedback on what we have so far to see how we need to further improve language fallbacks.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 01:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

That's pretty cool, will it be enabled in Wikipedia too, or do we have to wait for arbitrary access for getting fallback on labels ? --Zolo (talk) 10:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It'll come to Wikipedia too. I wanted to get some feeling first though of how well the system we have works and where we need to tweak it. Also we'll probably need different fallbacks on the Wikipedias. Maybe even let them decide what fallbacks to use? Let's see in a month or two I'd say. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 10:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Hmm something seems to be broken because I can't edit sitelinks anymore. Jane023 (talk) 13:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
We had a problem with that last night which should now be fixed. You might still be hitting a cache. Can you purge the page (add ?action=purge to the URL) and see if that fixes it for you? --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry not possible - I created 2 new Wikipedia pages and so there was no cache. For the first one I just used the gadget to add another link from another language, and for the second one there was no other language, so I used Special:SetSiteLink. In both cases the wikidata items were pre-existing. Jane023 (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It might still be caching relevant scripts. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Just tested with a new Wikidata item and a new Wikipedia article and the link to edit sitelinks still doesn't work for me. But as indicated, using special:setsitelinks works fine. Jane023 (talk) 14:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Try again please after purging. Should be fixed now. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 10:19, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Awesome! Would there be an entry for this fallback from the API too? Also, it always feels weird to just copy the label of an entity from one language to an other, especially for names. E.g. afaik, William Shakespeare has the same label in all latin alphabet based languages). Could there be a mention near languages labels field specifying what will be the fallback if let empty? Then, letting empty if the fallback is already the right label could become the official recommendation, sort of a "lazy labelling" policy :D (I'm not up to date on all the discussions, sorry if this was already discussed) Zorglub27 (talk) 16:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
The problem is that it might be true for Shakespeare - in Serbian he would be written Šekspir, but they use a cyricllic language so your point is still valid - but how do you recognize the Shakespeare's of the world? I.e. how do you know that a fallback is correct without copy and pasting? I think the language fallback is awesome, but it is a stop gap only. --Denny (talk) 18:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. There are also use-cases where we really want to have the label even if it is the same as a fall-back. What we'll be playing with though is making it easier to just re-use a fallback and that'd copy it into the proper label for example. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): What is the intended use of the property datatype? Can you give an example? Kaldari (talk) 20:44, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
The main use-case is for statements on properties. This way you can for example express that one property is the inverse of another property. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): Bug: property value in property datatype is not linked. Please fix it.--GZWDer (talk) 10:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Doh! I created phabricator:T84992 for that. Thanks! --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 13:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Can we associate Wiktionary links with article topics?[edit]

A topic like "Architecture" or "Zebra" will have both a Wikipedia article and a Wiktionary entry (or Wiktionary entries in many languages). Is there any reason we don't provide a place to associate the Wiktionary link to the Wikipedia topic? BD2412 (talk) 04:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles describe concepts or groups thereof, while Wiktionary entries describe words or phrases. Each word or phrase can have multiple completely different meanings (in dependence on language and context), which are all collected in one entry. Identically-named entries in different language editions correspond to each other 1:1, so there is no need to provide explicit links between them. Petr Matas 06:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Even so, the Wiktionary entry for a common noun like "zebra" will primarily correspond to the Wikipedia article for "Zebra"; a Wikipedia entry like "Architecture" has a describable relationship with the Wiktionary entries for "architecture", "architectural", and "architect" among others. I think there would be some utility there. BD2412 (talk) 18:14, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


Do we have bots scanning for description vandalism like this diff ? Jheald (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

No we don't have any. And also, it's impossible to program a bot that knows what is not acceptable description and what is. --Stryn (talk) 15:00, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I have seen the same sort of thing and I can't help but wonder if these are disgruntled community members who are testing out how vandalism works on Wikidata, because let's face it, it's pretty hard to find these input fields unless you try pretty hard, and the typical vandal is not trying too hard to do something that won't show up somewhere he/she can brag about about to friends. I have been leaving comments like "Please don't vandalize Wikidata" whenever I see these. Jane023 (talk) 15:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Open up any item that doesn't have a label or description in your main language (or English by default), and two big input fields with a "save" link next to them appear right at the top of the page. You don't have to try hard to vandalize those. We have to try hard to detect vandalism in thousands of unpatrolled edits each day, possibly in any of the Idontknowhowmany languages we support. --YMS (talk) 16:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Some vandlism stuff is at User:Pasleim/Vandalism‎. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 16:44, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

WDQ not updating ?[edit]

Is it just me, or is WDQ no longer getting synchronised with Wikidata updates?


returns nothing, even though Q2910848 was updated with a P373 on 12 December at 20:09 (diff).


returns nothing, even though Q1751201 was updated with this property on 12 December at 20:48 (diff).

It's frustrating trying to undertake projects (eg in this case: finding Q-numbers for painters in public holdings in the UK) if one can't reliably update the project's tracking pages.

I know Magnus has been poorly, so perhaps it's unfair to raise this at this time. But surely such a mission-critical tool should not still be depending only on Magnus? -- Jheald (talk) 19:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi James, contains some information about sync status (look at the timestamp). That looks ok, but some updates might have gotten lost.
WDQ started as a fun test toy and like a lot of fun test toys in ICT, it's importance grew over time, but it's infrastructure (technical and people) didn't. So yet again we end up with a community best-effort supported tool. This problem keeps popping up and we as movement don't seem to be able to crack it. One of the solutions we talked about in the past is that the WMF and/or chapters adopt important tools. The big hurdle to take here is the quality and language of the code. Multichill (talk) 19:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
@Multichill: Interesting. The first query is now working. The second still isn't. (Nor in this form. Though this works; but that doesn't help me search). Jheald (talk) 20:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Yuvi from the Labs team has been actively working with Magnus on improving reliability of the WDQ service in its current state, and WMF will develop a scalable production-grade query service as a top priority in partnership with the Wikidata team; see this page for current notes on the technical assessment and of course please do chip in.--Erik Moeller (WMF) (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I've just switched to run on two instances load balanced instead of one, which should definitely help reduce random outages. Let me know if there's anything wrong / missing. Yuvipanda (talk) 08:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks @Yuvipanda: that seems a lot better. I've updated the pages, and most of what I've added recently does now seem to be there; but I did still notice a few anomalies:
  • Domenico di Zanobi - has a P1367 Autolist; but not if you try to search on it Autolist. Added 13 Dec, 00:30 diff
  • Stanley Spencer - P650 found by Autolist [4]; but not by WDQ: [5]. Added 18 Dec, 00:05 diff.
  • Antonio Vázquez - P1367 on Autolist; but not if searched for (Autolist). Added 13 Dec, 00:01 [6]
  • Francisco de Osona - P1367 on Autolist; but not if searched for (Autolist). Added 13 Dec, 19:25 diff
  • Gerino da Pistoia - P1367 on Autolist; but not if searched for (Autolist). Added 13 Dec, 19:40 diff
  • Master of the Baroncelli Portraits - P1367 on Autolist; but not if searched for (Autolist). Added 15 Dec 23:31 diff.
These are just the first ones I have looked at. There could be 20 more... Jheald (talk) 18:29, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Labels and descriptions for Wikinews items[edit]

How should we handle items like 2006-07-10: Mundial 2006: Zinedine Zidane nagrodzony Złotą Piłką? Should its English label just be a translation of the article title? Should it be in quotation marks? What should the description be? "WikiNews article" or an actual description of the article? Kaldari (talk) 20:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think that it don't need to be a direct translation, but something like: "World Cup 2006: Zinedine Zidane won the Golden Ball award". --Stryn (talk) 20:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I guess the label should simply relate to the 'event' that the article is explaining. ·addshore· talk to me! 23:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Freebase - large content donation from Google[edit]

Hello! In 2007 Freebase was established as a project like Wikidata. In 2010 that project was acquired by Google. This month Google announced that Freebase was closing, and they would like to make all of its data available for integration into Wikidata. In six months that website is closing completely.

In my opinion, this is a large content donation and much of it would be useful to integrate into Wikidata. A lot of investment went into this, and a lot of benefit could come to Wikidata to capture this donation.

I personally have little ability to understand what Freebase is offering, but just because of the Google brand name, I am interested in doing something to respond to this offer. If anyone has comments or thoughts on this project, please go to Wikidata:WikiProject Freebase and comment, watch the page, or sign on as a participant of the project. I presume that in the coming months there will be discussion about what to take from Freebase and how to keep it in Wikidata. Thanks! Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:34, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I think Wikidata needs to examine the data carefully before accepting such a "present". Only high quality data with clear sources should be integrated into Wikidata. After all, unreferenced Wikidata content is worthless e.g. for Wikipedia uses. Gestumblindi (talk) 22:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Gestumblindi. That's why we suggested a curation and reference tool. Your help is very welcome! --Denny (talk) 05:37, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
@Denny: The curation and reference tool is certainly a step into the right direction, but only a first small step. Of course: An URL is still a lot better than nothing, but not exactly a full-fledged reference. At the least, it should IMHO be possible to add some basic info about the source (title of the website, name of the author, maybe even a short quote), and why only support URLs? Many facts are found in printed sources where you can't point to an URL. Often, e.g. Google Books might have digitized a book, but it's not accessible there due to copyright reasons, and for older titles, you don't have it offered as an e-book. Or there are large amounts of newspapers that are still not available in digital form. Also, using a book or journal as the "basic" reference (where you can optionally add an online version) is much more stable and the reference doesn't become as useless as in the case of a dead URL. Gestumblindi (talk) 20:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Gestumblindi, I agree. The reference tool should not be limited to a single URL. Atlasowa pointed me to Citoid, which seems to be a pretty cool tool to get better references. Also, it would indeed be a shame if you couldn't reference books! No, I agree that the reference tool should be flexible enough for this kind of references. Please join on the tool discussion page to make sure these requirements don't get lost. --Denny (talk) 23:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

User:Gestumblindi "Only high quality data with clear sources should be integrated into Wikidata." - then 50% or more of all claims should be removed. 14:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Or be annotated with references. You can either break something imperfect, or help fixing it. Since a wiki is work in progress, I tend towards the latter. --Denny (talk) 16:01, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Tree Of Life[edit]


Since the Tree of Life by Denny is outdated, we thought it was a nice idea, to have a new one, to have an overview over the biological taxonomy on wikidata. Not only to have a nice looking tree but also to see, where errors are and to correct and update it. Right now, there are 660775 Items in the tree. Even though the change of names can be seen instantly, because this is based on the API, changes in the order need an update of the whole tree, because it's based on wikidata dumps. (This one on the most recent one from 15.12.2014)

Here you go, this is the new tree of life, made with a lot of love:

If you have any corrections, additions or features you want to add, feel free to ping me, send me a mail, submit a patch or file an issue on github. The repo for the tree is on

Cheers, --Frimelle (talk) 16:35, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

This is awesome! Thank you.
What I always try is, to find humans. Here I gave up, though. Would you know if humans are connected already in your ToL? --Denny (talk) 18:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Afaik human is not in the tree because of some missing link. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): Taken out of context your comment is really funny. I guess the theory of evolution had a good run ;) --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
All intentional ;-) --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 20:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The missing link is deuterostome (Q150866) parent taxon (P171) Bilateria (Q5173), but it is contained in Wikidata. Nice to see you having fun. :) Petr Matas 21:12, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
it was displaying weirdly on my screen, the elements of the page were overlapsing or requiring horizontal scrolling so I made a pull request to fix that, hope it helps :) Bests, Zorglub27 (talk) 11:06, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, awesome you contributed! --Frimelle (talk) 16:35, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata holds something like three times as many items as that that should fit. A quick look at angiosperms shows that this tree is missing more than 95% of taxa. Also Wikidata is intended to hold multiple trees of life, so any one 'tree' is likely to be weird. - Brya (talk) 17:49, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

make duplicate[edit]

How easy to duplicate an item, change necessary facts before save it as an new item? Thank you, Conny (talk) 17:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC).

I can only think of a hack: Let's say that you want to create a duplicate of item A.
  1. Create a new item B
  2. Merge item A into item B
  3. Delete all sitelinks from item B
  4. Revert the changes of item A
  5. Edit item B
It would also be possible to create a gadget for this purpose. Or does anyone know any better solution? Petr Matas 20:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
As a first step, could we have a tool that would export the claims for an item in a format that could be used to populate QuickStatements (Pxxx:Qxxx, etc.). Then we could use the ones we want to populate a new, similar item.- PKM (talk)
Ok, I am developing such script, it's not finished yet, but to get the idea, add importScript('User:Petr Matas/ExportClaims.js'); into your common.js. Hover on the Statements heading of an item and press Ctrl+C. Petr Matas 03:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
thanks I'll try that next time I fire up the PC (I do at least half of my editing in my iPad). - PKM (talk) 00:37, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Doesn't work for me. Copy-paste buffer is not filled. I'll try playing with it later. (Chrome on Windows 7 PC) - PKM (talk) 02:03, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Neglected property proposals[edit]

I would like to attract your attention to WD:Property proposal/Sister projects#Similar item. Petr Matas 02:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)