Wikidata:Requests for comment/How to handle heat treating as a qualifier for material properties ?

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search


THIS RFC IS CLOSED. Please do NOT vote nor add comments.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
property was created. Discuss on the property talk page how to use that property. --Pasleim (talk) 20:11, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dear,

Wikidata:Property proposal/Heat treating is open since several mounth and there is not enough advice on how to proceed.

The subject is very technical and related to metallurgy. This can explain the lack of interest for voting on it.

However its is blocking the creation of many material datasheets. Metals mechanical properties heavily depends on the heat treating.

Heat treating is then a mandatory qualifier to specify the value of the metal properties.

There is 2 ways of proceeding proposed so far :

Way 1 : multiple properties

A heat treating is a complicated process where many parameters will have an important impact. So that many properties are needed to describe it.

In example, for stainless steel N690Co (Q3334175) :

hardness
Preferred rank 60±1 HRC edit
temperature 23°C
quenching temperature 1080°C
cooling in water
cryogeny temperature -80°C
cryogeny duration 2H
tempering temperature 200°C
tempering duration 2H
0 references
add reference


add value

A single material can go through several heat treatments. I.e. quenching + cryogeny + tempering is very common.

To get the number of needed qualifiers you have to multiply the quantity of heat treatement types by the quantity of possible parameters :

  • Technic of heat treatement : quenching, annealing, tempering, cryogeny, aging, normalizing, stress relieving, case hardening ...
  • Possible parameters for each type : athmosphere, duration, temperature, cooling in...

Way 2 : storing heat treatment in an item

Some heat treatments are normalized. For example the dedicated process for aging 17-4 PH stainless steel (Q24883840) up to a ultimate tensile strength of 930 MPa is called +P930 :

elongation at break
Preferred rank 16% edit
temperature 23°C
Heat treating +P930 (Qxxx)
0 references
add reference


add value

Most of other heat treatments phasis are not normalised but are very common. So that it could be interesting to have it stored in an item for reuse :

hardness
Preferred rank 60±1 HRC edit
temperature 23°C
Heat treating Vacuum quenched at 1080°C (Qxxx)
2H cryogenic at -80°C or lesser (Qxxx)
2H tempering at 200°C (Qxxx)
0 references
add reference


add value

I would tend to way 2 because :

  • it avoid creating dozen of properties
  • the rendering is easier to read
  • it avoid the pain of specifying each parameter for each material since the items are reusable.

What would be your opinion ?

Regards

--Thibdx (talk) 23:31, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

An heat treatment is a pattern of precise quenching-ageeing-tempering... That means, if you want to be precise, for me, the best is solution 2. Borvan53 (talk) 20:18, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This seems to be the general opinion if we refer to the discussion page but I'm wondering about practical use. This means that each time you add a property to the item you have to describe the heat treatment with something like 10 qualifiers. If we use way 1 and store all the details in an item we can just call this item. -- Thibdx (talk) 23:32, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lea Lacroix (WMDE): Another compelling use case for tuple-valued properties.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/How_to_handle_heat_treating_as_a_qualifier_for_material_properties_%3F&oldid=1374636579"