Topic on Wikidata talk:Wikidata Lexeme Forms

Wikidata:Wikidata Lexeme Forms/Danish is now ready to the best of my knowledge.

I’m currently transcribing it (sorry for the delay) – is the label for the second template supposed to be dansk substantiv (et-ord) or dansk substantiv (neutrum)? The heading has the former, the actual entry has the latter. (CC Fnielsen too.)

And why do the last two templates both have the same statements, instance of (P31) adjective (Q34698)? If they’re different kinds of adjectives (with or without comparative), couldn’t that be reflected in the statements? As it stands, this just seems redundant with the lexical category.

Regarding the first issue, I have change it to "intetkøn" and "fælleskøn" instead of et-ord og en-ord

I am unsure about whether the form for adjectives are correct. "det højeste barn" would be definite, singular, superlative. It is unclear to me how to best describe these superlative forms. I have always been unsure and I haven't found a reference work clarifying it. I think form 7 may be indefinite.

Well, I’ve published the noun and verb templates for now, so at least those are available. Let me know if you make progress on the adjective templates!

Hi Lucas and Fnielsen. Sorry for not replying earlier. I'm glad some of them got pushed. I'm not an expert on grammatics. I made the two different adjectives because there are 2 ways of commonly "conjugate" them just like in English.

1) fed (fat) federe (fatter) fedest (fattest) 2) fed (fat), mere fed (more fat), mest fed (most fat)

I don't know if and how to model that in our lexemes. What do we do for english? It turns out this is not completely modeled by https://tools.wmflabs.org/ordia/L5058, only the first form is there even though the second is IMO just as correct and possibly should be included.

In danish some adjectives can only be modeled along the second, some both and some only have the first form. e.g.

1) meget (a lot) mere (more) mest (most) 2) not possible

1) not possible 2) orange, mere orange (more orange), mest orange (most orange)

Any ideas how to solve/model this?

Hm, good question. The enwiki article w:en:Comparison (grammar)#English describes 1) as “morphological comparison” and 2) as “syntactic comparison”, but we don’t yet seem to have items corresponding directly to those terms. There are some English words with “more X” forms (query), but the ones I checked didn’t have any specific statements or lexical category to say that this is a different kind of comparative/superlative. One reason for that might be that in English, as far as I’m aware, a word uses either one or the other kind of comparison, but rarely (never?) both, so it’s less necessary to make the distinction; whereas in Danish, if I understand you correctly, it’s more common for a word to use both kinds, and so not only do we potentially need to record both on a lexeme, but they also need to be distinguished from one another.

Yes, I agree, we should distinguish between those and we would probably be the first ever to store this data. :) It is not usual to include this in danish-danish dictionaries as far as I know.

What about happy?

1) happy happier happiest

2) happy, more happy, most happy

So "the most happy day of my life" == "the happiest day of my life"?

I made headway in this today. :)

Pinging @Nikki, Moebeus: that may be interested in the implications this has for bokmål and german adjectives as these 2 different forms of comparison are present in a lot of germanic languages (but both used on the same adjective might be a rare Danish invention), see .

From above:

1. fed (fat) federe (fatter) fedest (fattest)
2. fed (fat), mere fed (more fat), mest fed (most fat)

Examples:

• en fed bil (a cool car), en federe bil end din (a more cool car than yours), den fedeste bil (the coolest car)
• "Malemiddel fed gør malingen mere fed..." (paint additive fat makes the paint more fat...)

So there might be few adjectives in Danish like "fed" that has both forms in active use, but I do think we should reflect that in our lexemes.

I found a good(?) source for the difference between morphological comparison and periphrastic comparison , p89. (I followed the naming conventions of the Wikipedia article in the items below and put "periphrastic" in the alias of all the relevant items)

I created the items morphological comparative (Q106322767), morphological superlative (Q106322806), syntactic comparative (Q106322855) and syntactic superlative (Q106322862) (and the classes above them) and I'm going to update the danish templates now to use them.

I updated fed (L37094) with the new forms mentioned above so you can see the result. WDYT?