Wikidata talk:WikiProject Wales

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Gwych iawn!

Syniad da creu'r prosiect yma, Jason... gwych iawn! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

How to indicate that somebody is Welsh?

Jason.nlw (talk) 17:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Llywelyn2000 Carl Morris Dogfennydd (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2021 (UTC) Ham II (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject Wales Nice place you're building yourself here. Liking the architecture!

QUESTION: what is the approved way to indicate that someone is Welsh?

Over at Wikidata:WikiProject EMEW (England and Wales, 1500-1700) we can indicate that somebody of the period is English with eg

Elizabeth I of England (Q7207)country of citizenship (P27)Kingdom of England (Q179876)

Is there a good way to say that somebody is Welsh, a) in the Early Modern 1500-1700 period; and b) more generally ? Thanks, Jheald (talk) 10:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

The conflation, or overlap, between citizenship and nationality has long perplexed the Wikimedia community. Note that there is also ethnic group (P172). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:17, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

As Andy suggests, there is no clear agreement on how this should be done. I'm not convinced that Ethnic Group is the best fit because many 'Welsh' people - people born in Wales or identify as Welsh - may also identify as a range of different ethnicities. Creating a property for Nationality is one option that has been suggested, since the definition of Nation is a little more flexible than citizenship. But i'm guessing such a property proposal may meet resistence? I'd be happy to put a proposal together if we think it has any traction. There must be countless Nations like Wales, Scotland, Basque Country, Native American Nations which all have a degree of atonomy and a clear national identity, where that cannot currently be expressed on Wikidata Jason.nlw (talk) 09:35, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

It seems to me that Citizenship is about legal status whereas by definition, Nationality is about belonging to a particular Nation (a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory), regardless of statehood. Seems like a clear case for separating the two with two seperate properties. Jason.nlw (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

UPDATE: Ive just been through all the previous property proposals for 'Nationality/cultural identity' and can see that any kind of consensus is unlikely. I understand some of the arguments against but it seems crazy that you cannot express when people belong to a stateless nation. Particularly when many of those nations only lack legal recognition as states due to historic colonialism and oppression...one to work on! Jason.nlw (talk) 10:04, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

All reliable sources agree that a person can have a nationality which is Welsh. Many of us, over the years have attempted to introduce that fact, but slapped down by political pov arguments. It's not our place, now, to think of an answer; that is a problem which the Wikidata community should address. Should they put facts / reliable sources first, or their own biased pov? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 14:30, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

As nothing is forthcoming from the WD community, we should make a recommendation. A person's nationality can be different from their citizenship by at least three ways: their action, their title or their words. Belonging to a political party or football team is one action; having the title 'Henry V of England' makes Henry English, although he was born in Wales. Saunders Lewis is Welsh as he self identified as being a Welshman, yet born in Liverpool. Quite comprehensive discussions on nationality took place in an rfc on en-WP, which came to the conclusion that Carles Puigdemont should be described as a Catalan politician. Wikidata should recognise that in some cases, nationality is different from citizenship, as this is well sourced (see above link). Not recognising that fact makes WD a very biased tool, and goes against our core principles of recording the sum of all knowledge, whether we agree with it or not. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Weather and Climate Change - events

I've requested info on creating items for natural events such as the first date cows were turned out to pasture here on the Climate Change Project. The data has been harvested by Llen Natur, and could be regarded as signs of climate change. Their early records were kept by ordinary farmers, and have been published. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 15:21, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Pie chart

I've tried to import the Template talk:Graph:Pie chart template into cywiki, which we could use on thousands of articles. However it's a template shell, containing Lua script, and doesn't populate. Any thoughts how we could get it to work, please? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 15:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Done! See here. This means I can now work on getting the 2021 census in Wales into chart form (etc etc!), directly from Wikidata. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

I've just started a Wikiproject charts on cywiki. Can we get the historic and 2021 Census data for all communities in Wales up on WD? That would mean a chart and automated paragraph on all 900+ communities, all driven on the fly from WD! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Bristol Trader

Q24026969 - Needs splitting - data seems to be about the Aberystwyth registered shipwreck, but also a new ship built 2016 in the Philippines Rhagfyr (talk) 22:23, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Done! Jason.nlw (talk) 10:13, 4 November 2023 (UTC)