User talk:JakobVoss

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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:JakobVoss/Archive 1 on 2016-03-01.

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Pintoch (talkcontribs)
Logo for the Wikidata Wikiproject Universities


Ich habe gesehen, dass du dich für Bibliotheken interessierst! Vielleicht möchtest du auch an WikiProject Universities teilzunehmen? Zur Zeit ist es leider nur auf Englisch aber wir könnten auch eine deutschsprächige Version anfangen.


Reply to "Einladung: WikiProject Universities" (talkcontribs)

How are things in the old country? !

Reply to "So good to see you here :)"

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MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

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Statistical Classification of Economic Activities in the European Community

AVRS (talkcontribs)

I changed Statistical Classification of Economic Activities in the European Community (Q732298) to a subclass because I added an item for Statistical Classification of Economic Activities in the European Community, Rev. 1.1 (2002) (Q26698591) (there are several different versions; at least 1.1 and 2 are incompatible). --AVRS (talk) 08:05, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

I'd do this similar to Dewey Decimal Classification (Q48460) and DDC 23 (Q15222117). One is the general work and the other a particular edition or version. Is this ok for you?

Another issue: are there English labels for no label (Q4330194) and no label (Q4330196). Not knowing Russian it's difficult to judge whether one of these is also edition, part-of or subclass of the other.

AVRS (talkcontribs)

> One is the general work and the other a particular edition or version.

What about the official changes made to the versions?

> Another issue: are there English labels for no label (Q4330194) and no label (Q4330196).

Moved one (it was misplaced in the German field) and added another from a copy of the text in

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

> What about the official changes made to the versions?

See Ship of Theseus (Q1050837). The general work Statistical Classification of Economic Activities in the European Community (Q732298) is still the same no matter how much has been changed as long as each Revision is published under the same name. If you add another revision (e.g. 2), we can relate both with followed by (P156).

The Russian systems, Russian state classification system (Q4330194) is a general type of classification used officially in Russia and there are several instances of this type. I added the remaining instance-relationships.

Reply to "Statistical Classification of Economic Activities in the European Community"
Okkn (talkcontribs)

Hello, aren't Medical Subject Headings (Q199897) index term (Q1128340)? "Medical Subject Headings" is under "Subject Headings" in MeSH tree. I think "Subject Heading" is a alias for en:Index term. The problem is whether it is singular or plural? Thanks, --~~~~

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

Medical Subject Headings is a whole system of many index terms or subject headings. An instance of an index term would be for example D001769.

Reply to "MeSH"
Daniel Mietchen (talkcontribs)

Hallo Jakob, ich bin gerade ueber Wikidata als Universalbibliographie: ein Kommentar gestolpert. Habe auch mehrfach angefangen, das mal zusammenzuschreiben, bin aber nicht weit gekommen. Vielleicht schaffen wir's zusammen?

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

An welche Zielgruppe und/oder Art der Veröffentlichung dachtest du?

Reply to "Wikidata als Universalbibliographie"
Danmichaelo (talkcontribs)

Hi! Sure about this? Cannot see that a thesaurus (Q17152639) shares all the properties of a thesaurus (Q179797), so I wouldn't expect a subclass of (P279) relation here. Btw. I'm also unsure if thesaurus (Q179797) subclass of (P279) dictionary (Q23622) is really right… since the former is not about spelling, while the latter is.

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

Yes. I just found a good summary in an article by Vreda Pieterse and Derrick G. Kouriein who cite Spärck-Jones (1992) on the issue of what "thesaurus" is:

  • "Most commonly it is used to refer to a vocabulary reference work to aid writing" (thesaurus (Q179797))
  • "Secondly, in the library and information science (LIS) field, a thesaurus is a technical term that refers to an instrument that is used for vocabulary control in order to achieve consistency in the description of items and to facilitate retrieval" (thesaurus (Q17152639))
  • "Lastly, in the AI field the term refers to the data store of words and phrases that is commonly used as a natural language processing resource" (Q??)

Anyway, thesaurus (Q179797) is no superclass of thesaurus (Q17152639) but it's a subclass of dictionary (Q23622) such as many other kinds of dictionaries, only some of them about spelling.

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Google does not seem to know "Vreda Pieterse Derrick G. Kouriein". Any more precise link, digital if possible ?

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

Spärck-Jones, Karen. 1992. Thesaurus. In Stuart C. Shapiro, ed., Encyclopedia of artificial intelligence 1 2. New York, NY: John Wiley & Sons Inc., pp. 1605–13.

Danmichaelo (talkcontribs)

That's a good summary. There also seems to be some confusion on whether a thesaurus has to include hierarchical relationships or not, but in general that seems to be the defining factor that distinguishes it from a controlled vocabulary (Q1469824).

I wasn't aware of the usage within AI, but perhaps we need an item for that as well.

Something else: We have classification (Q5962346) (tree) and classification scheme (Q3475629) (tree), both currently subclass of (P279) knowledge organization system (Q6423319) and not properly disambiguated. What do you think about making just one of them subclass of (P279) knowledge organization system (Q6423319), and making the other about the process or the field of classification? Perhaps classification scheme (Q3475629) subclass of (P279) knowledge organization system (Q6423319), but then what relationship to use between classification scheme (Q3475629) and classification (Q5962346)..? In some sense perhaps classification (Q5962346) product (P1056) classification scheme (Q3475629), but that's only one aspect..

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

I am trying to clean up the whole knowledge organization system (Q6423319) tree but it's complicated. I agree that there should only be one classification as subclass of KOS but it's not easy to tell which because most Wikipedia language editions don't distinguish between classification as product and classification as process, research area etc.

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

The process of classification is classification (Q13582682). I will merge classification scheme (Q5962346) and classification scheme (Q3475629)!

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Jakob, those definitions seems a bit lax to me, in particular the wikipedia articles gives more details about the kind of instrument. Do we really have example of a thesaurus that does not involve relationship beetween terms ?

Anyway, if it does, they fails to capture something : written thesaurus that actually use relatinships beetween terms are totally mixed up with dictionaries and we just don't have an item for it. So just basing ourselves on those definitions does not work imho.

Reply to "Thesaurus"
Kolja21 (talkcontribs)

Hallo Jakob, wieso sollen alle Tonträger nur Musik enthalten? Lesungen und Hörbücher zählen zumindest nicht dazu. Daher sollten imho Musikkatalog (Q6941730) und Tonträgerkatalog (Q16832380) getrennt bleiben. Außerdem: Warum hast du das eine Objekt geleert, statt die beiden Objekte zusammenzuführen? Gruß

Kolja21 (talkcontribs)

PS: Habe gerade gesehen, es gibt auch noch "Musikverzeichniss" (Q19220511).

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

Der Begriffsumfang variiert je nach Wikipedia-Sprachversion, soweit ich es verstanden habe, ist es nicht praktikabel zwischen Musikkatalog und Tonträgerkatalog (und Musikverzeichnis) zu unterscheiden aber vielleicht ist es doch machbar.

Beim Zusammenführen frage ich mich immer wieder wie denn die richtige Methode ist.

Schöne Grüße! Jakob

Kolja21 (talkcontribs)

Am einfachsten funktioniert das mit dem Helferlein Merge.js, siehe Help:Merge/de.

Kolja21 (talkcontribs)

Und was die WP-Sprachversionen angeht: Notfalls kann man auf die Interwikilinks zurückgreifen (per Hand ":en" etc. einfügen), wenn Artikel sich thematisch überschneiden, obwohl sie sich auf zwei unterschiedliche Objekte beziehen.

Kolja21 (talkcontribs)

Nur zur Info: Aus dem Objekt "Tonträgerkatalog" (Q16832380), das du geleert hast, ist zwischenzeitlich die "Tonkin Street West" geworden, mit Link zur chinesischen WP. Ich habe den Edit revidiert, und bin gespannt auf die weitere Karriere des Objekts. - Wikidata: Wer hierher verlinkt, kann sich morgen überraschen lassen.

Reply to "Per Hand mergen"
Jura1 (talkcontribs)

Hi JakobVoss,

I was wondering if you'd mind if I use Q22910779 to experiment with cites (P2860).

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

That's a lot to do. A BibTeX file of cited publications is available at but this may include more documents than actually cited. To make sure grep for \cite in the .tex files.

Reply to "Experiment"

Instance vs. subclass for chemical nomenclature

Snipre (talkcontribs)

I just see your modification of instance of chemical nomenclature instead of subclass of chemical nomeclature for IUPAC chemical nomenclature. As IUPAC provides different nomenclatures for organic, inorganic and cyclic compounds we have to use subclass and not instance of. Snipre (talk) 13:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

JakobVoss (talkcontribs)

Thanks! I was tidying up some wrong instance-relationships but here I was wrong.

Reply to "Instance vs. subclass for chemical nomenclature"
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