Talk:Q4511196

regatta vs championship items

@Schwede66: I am not very happy with the removal of lightweight information from this item [1]. We have the unfortunate situation that Wikipedia sitelinks are not equally designed, so that some describe the 1978 championships (cswiki, dewiki, eswiki, and frwiki), and others describe the two 1978 championship regattas (enwiki, nowiki, ruwiki, and nlwiki). We have thus three items:

• 1978 World Rowing Championships (Q4511196) (championship item)
• 1978 World Rowing Championships (open weight classes) (Q2070707) and 1978 World Rowing Championships (lightweight classes) (Q2234499) (championship regatta items)

As this championship item is supported by four Wikipedia articles, I think we should also reflect this here and include lightweight information in this item, as well as moving some sitelinks to 1978 World Rowing Championships (open weight classes) (Q2070707). If desired, we can try to add some Wikipedia redirects as sitelinks thereafter, in order not to have them fragmented too much. —MisterSynergy (talk) 06:41, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

I was just trying to be helpful by tidying things up the way it seemed to make most sense to me. Yes, I saw that some Wikis have one article covering both regattas. I thought that by adding the item "different from" interested editors would get directed to the relevant page. If you think it's better done the way it was then please revert it (if you haven't already; I haven't checked); you are by far the more experienced editor on Wikidata. My apologies.

I guess over time, this will sort itself out as it hardly makes sense that Wikis are covering two separate events held at different times in different hemispheres by one article. Schwede66 (talk) 07:50, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn’t change it back yet, since I prefer to discuss first. In rowing we do not have many of these problems, it does in fact only show up at three occasions:

• 1978 World Rowing Championships (Q4511196) (with 1978 World Rowing Championships (open weight classes) (Q2070707) and 1978 World Rowing Championships (lightweight classes) (Q2234499))
• 1955 European Rowing Championships (Q47003056) (with 1955 European Rowing Championships (Women's events) (Q19952050) and 1955 European Rowing Championships (Men's events) (Q19951768))
• 1963 European Rowing Championships (Q54847575) (with 1963 European Rowing Championships (women) (Q19951771) and 1963 European Rowing Championships (men) (Q19952054))

So whatever we do, we can quickly switch to a different setting once it seems applicable. The situation is far more complicated in many other types of sport like tennis, where thousands of such cases exist. The reason for such problems basically is that Wikidata’s different goals (provide sitelinks and build a database) are occasionally contradicting. Without Wikipedia sitelinks, we would probably model quite several things differently, but we often can’t due to the sitelink structure.

Here I suggest to put all sitelinks exactly to the item which they belong to, and keep the mutual connections which are (were) already defined. If we want to add sitelinks to the differently modeled sitelinks, we could use the redirect interwiki hack (not beautiful and somewhat unwanted, but it works). As Wikidatans we typically avoid walking into Wikipedia communities to tell them how to structure their articles, in order to avoid any impression of “imperialism” :-)

I still hope that one day in future we might be able to make Wikidata-based infoboxes for rowers and hopefully also rowing competitions, and I have exactly these three special situations in mind to deal with then in the code. —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:23, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. When I say that it'll sort itself out, I wasn't thinking of telling them what to do but I expect that they'll all come to that conclusion themselves when they think about it. Schwede66 (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

There is no wrong way to do it, I think. The championship item approach makes it a bit easier to sequentially order the occurence in relation to earlier and later ones and the sitelinks are a bit more similar to the other championships, but your favorite approach with championship regatta items also has its advantages in that it is clearly cleaner to separate events. We probably need to deal with this irregularity permanently. —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:23, 16 July 2018 (UTC)