Property talk:P8472

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Encyclopedie berbere keyword ID
ID for a keyword in the French encyclopedia about the Berbers Encyclopédie berbère
Associated itemEncyclopédie berbère (Q2701363)
Applicable "stated in" valueEncyclopédie berbère (Q2701363)
Data typeExternal identifier
Allowed values[1-9]\d{1,3}
Usage notesOnly use this for IDs of keywords from the keyword index (cf. P1896).
ExampleDjerba (Q188938) → 1375
Sahara (Q6583) → 269
Sourcehttps://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/52
Formatter URLhttps://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/$1
Related to country France (Q142) (See 638 others)
See alsoEncyclopédie berbère article ID (P9198)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses
Total264
Main statement262 out of 1,283 (20% complete)99.2% of uses
Qualifier20.8% of uses
Search for values
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Format “[1-9]\d{1,3}”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8472#Format, SPARQL
Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8472#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)
Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: linguistics (Q8162), prehistory (Q11756)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8472#Single value, SPARQL
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8472#Entity types
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P8472#Scope, SPARQL

Cleanup: let’s clarify the use of this property and put the results into action[edit]

The initial scrape from which the Mix’n’Match catalogue was created by @Magnus Manske contained mostly the keywords (not the article titles) from the Encyclopédie berbère (EB), but also some superfluous pages like the contact page.

It took me some time to get an overview, and I just did a new scrape, so here’s what I found. The MnM catalogue contains these kinds of pages from the EB website:

  • Keywords (in French:
    mots clés
    ). That’s the bulk of the catalogue (333 entries). These link to (1:n), but are not identical to the encyclopedia articles which make up the EB.
  • Author portraits of the people who have written for the EB or are otherwise affiliated with it. They are all (15 entries) matched except for one.
  • Front- and back matter, meta-pages, tables of content … These are all marked as irrelevant on MnM and not present on Wikidata ✓

Conspicuously not present in the catalogue:

  • The articles which actually make up the encyclopedia. 1515 are currently published. The source for the articles is the list of volumes, where the table of contents of each volume is linked.

When this property was created, I assumed it was for the articles in the EB. (Property proposal: “articles of the […] encyclopedia”. The property examples also point to articles, not keywords.) Given the numbers above, I would propose that we clarify in the labeling that this property should only be used for the keywords? The small number of author portraits should be removed from the MnM catalogue and the property use, I would suggest. I’m sure we could keep a link to them in described at URL (P973) or described by source (P1343). If I can make my scrape available, the MnM catalogue could be updated to only include the keywords. What’s the copyright situation with scrapes like that? (The keyword list on the EB homepage is updated when new issues are published – it could use updating anyway.)

If/when this cleanup progresses, I would be interested in proposing a second property for the actual EB encyclopedia articles, of which 1515 are currently published (according to my scrape) – many of them as free full texts. I’d also create a new MnM catalogue for these. Perhaps, when a substantial amount of these are matched, it might be interesting to look at whether the keywords are actually worth keeping as a property – but I currently have no strong preference on this.

On Wikidata, 19 actual EB encyclopedia articles (not keywords) have been entered using this property. If there is consensus on limiting the use of this property to keywords, these would need to be migrated to a new property.

CC @Moumou82 for having proposed the property and matched a lot of the entries, @Galahmm, Aboubacarkhoraa, AfricanadeCuba, Gerwoman, Jneubert, Epìdosis @Trade, 轻语者, TheseusHeLl, Pamputt for having participated in the property creation.

All the best — Linus (disc) 18:46, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Linus Wolf: Hello and thank you for bringing this up. It has been my intent when requesting this property to only use it to identify EB articles, not EB subpages which I personally do not think are interesting to connect to Wikidata, or at least not under this property. However, I realized rapidly when using the current Mix’n’Match catalogue that it did not actually include articles, which I think would be great to obtain so the property focuses on the most adding-value EB content. Moumou82 (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, right now, I wouldn’t be in favor of deleting all the matches and links to the EB keywords immediately. (235 by my count.) And as I understand it, it’s generally considered better to create new properties when the (de facto) usage changes. What’s your opinion on proposing a new property for the articles and keeping this one for the keywords, for now?
I could create a new, additional MnM catalogue for the articles in short order – the list is almost ready on my part. I guess I could move ahead on this tomorrow evening if there are no objections?
— Linus (disc) 19:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: I have no objection, I guess we just need to make sure this property is clearly identified to refer to key words only and that no actual article is associated to it. Moumou82 (talk) 12:43, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: Great! I’ll start this afternoon by removing the author portraits from the property. Below are lists of the items where the property is used for something other than a keyword. I guess the links to articles will have to remain where they are until we have a new property – though we might use catalog code (P528) plus catalog (P972) in the interim. I’m not sure if I’ll get around to clarifying the property description today (let alone a new property proposal) – perhaps I’ll continue next weekend. — Linus (disc) 14:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Moumou82: Here’s the new MnM catalogue for EB articles: https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/4170 Unfortunately, someone linked it to this property, and I don’t know how to undo it. — Linus (disc) 18:58, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Linus Wolf: It looks like if you can click on 'Action' at the top right and then 'Catalog editor' to change the property ID, we just need a new property for articles to complete this. Moumou82 (talk) 19:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Magnus Manske: Hello, would you be able to edit https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/?#/catalog/3380 and precise this applies only to key words? See https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/4170 created by Linus to try and have something consistent. Moumou82 (talk) 19:35, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: OK, I’m mostly done with adapting the statements on the property to fit the narrower usage. Epìdosis kindly improved on my descriptions and labels. Some languages remain unchanged, so far: ar, be-tarask, sr and tr. I won’t be able to change these competently (except maybe Turkish). I think it might be appropriate to remove instance of (P31)Wikidata property for an identifier that suggests notability (Q62589316)? Keywords don’t seem very notable to me. — The next thing I plan to do (maybe later tonight) is to draft the new property proposal. I’ll probably post the draft here first before I submit the proposal. — Linus (disc) 17:40, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: I agree, I removed the statement as I think it does not make sense anymore. Hopefully, some others will change the remaining labels. Moumou82 (talk) 10:42, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: Here is the draft for the new property proposal. If possible, I’ll submit it this evening. But I’ll gladly take input :-) — Linus (disc) 14:38, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: Many thanks, I added my support. Moumou82 (talk) 10:42, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: Hello, now the property P9198 has been created, can you update https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/catalog/4170 (clicking on 'Action' at the top right and then 'Catalog editor') to add the property ID? I think this is what is missing to start using the catalog. Moumou82 (talk) 22:41, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: I tried! I can’t seem to save it permanently. Probably because a property was removed from the catalogue before … Probably a catalog editor has to intervene, but it’ll be a few days before I can get around to chasing this up. — Linus (disc) 23:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@VIGNERON: Hello, do you know who could help to link a new property (P9198) to an existing catalog so we can start working on it? Moumou82 (talk) 15:49, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: you need to go to the Catalog editor, I did it (I hope, I didn't do that for a long time). Also notifying @Linus Wolf:. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 17:12, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@VIGNERON: Like for Linus, it does not seem to save the entry even though clicking on the 'Save' button. Could we identify someone who has the status of a catalog editor (able to save edits)? Moumou82 (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Strange, indeed it does not save the change... @Jean-Frédéric: do you have any idea how to solve this? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 17:56, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Adam Harangozó: Do you think you could set P9198 on catalog 4170 now? I think you kindly removed P8472 a few weeks ago when I asked you to (thanks!), but now the property field in M’n’M appears to be unwriteable for us. — Linus (disc) 18:00, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: Done. Thanks for working on this! --Adam Harangozó (talk) 15:23, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Adam Harangozó: Many thanks! A last question: 203 entries are fully matched but only 35 include P9198. Is there a way to have the property added to those? Moumou82 (talk) 15:34, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: I’ve started a sync which should transfer the ca. 200 matches from M’n’M to Wikidata. It’s not running yet, but should just be a question of time. — Linus (disc) 15:37, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Moumou82: Done: https://editgroups.toolforge.org/b/QSv2/50296/ — Linus (disc) 15:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Linus Wolf: Thanks for your precious help with this property! Moumou82 (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To be removed from this property: author portraits etc.[edit]

I’ve just created Colette Roubet (Q105160084) to test where we can store the links to the EB author portraits instead of in this property. This is what I intend to do on the remaining people. — Linus (disc) 14:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, these are migrated to described at URL (P973) using this QuickStatements batch, and on MnM they are set to N/A. MnM catalogue 3380 now only contains matches with keywords (236; 84 are unmatched) which I brought up to date and reconciled yesterday. 70 MnM entries are rejected. These numbers are according to the table I downloaded from MnM.
Wikidata now has 236 links to keywords on 234 items, links to 19 articles on 20 items, and 0 links to biographies in this property.
I might get the new MnM catalogue for the EB articles sorted today, and then I’ll probably take a break. — Linus (disc) 16:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Eventually to be moved to a new property: encyclopedia articles[edit]

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