Wikidata:Requests for comment/Merge all languages of project chat into one multilingual project chat
An editor has requested the community to provide input on "Merge all languages of project chat into one multilingual project chat" via the Requests for comment (RFC) process. This is the discussion page regarding the issue.
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THIS RFC IS CLOSED. Please do NOT vote nor add comments.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- This RfC is stale and unlikely to reach consensus.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This is a proposal to merge all 51 different language versions of Wikidata:Project chat into one multilingual project chat.
The reasons for this are threefold:
- Most of the other project areas aren't divided up by language. RfC, AfD, and PfD, for example, are officially language neutral.
- Many of the 51 project chats aren't used, with the only content being English language messages delivered to every project chat. See, for example, Wikidata:প্রকল্প আড্ডা, where four of the messages are community alerts (in English) and one is an off topic message (also in English). If people have questions and they go to a project chat that isn't active, those questions might not be seen. Better that it be placed in a central board that hundreds of people are watching, even if msot have to use Google Translate to communicate with the person, than for that person to ask something and never get an answer.
- English is the dominant language of the project, so some users forget that it's perfectly acceptable to communicate in other languages here. By having all of the languages on one page, people will be more cognizant of the fact that this is, and should be, a multilingual project. This will hopefully influence the project in a positive way by preventing English language dominance from becoming too entrenched.
Yours, Sven Manguard Wha? 21:15, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support There's nothing to stop more project chats from being created, making this worse. --Rschen7754 21:32, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- That being said, we need a way to publicize this to more people, and preferably by more than posting on the english-only chat :P --Rschen7754 21:34, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are enough participants at a number of the project chats that merging all of them doesn't make sense. Let me start by enumeration.
- It is not a persuasive reason that we have "other spaces" which are language-neutral. You'll note that for two of those areas, we have low "other" language participation, and in one of the areas (RFD), that there's actually no need for multiple different languages. So your first point isn't persuasive.
- I agree that these are a problem.
- An international chat may help this... and it may not. I suspect the opposite may become a problem: that merging every chat would stifle those places which do have a hardy population and would completely annihilate participation by the others who use chats which don't have any participation.
To follow on from my original point, mushing every one into one chat could cause other issues. Example: I've noted some users who have a problem with the archive time (at least with the English chat)—that it's too fast. Merging every chat would cause a lot of pain for people because we would have to increase the archive rate. This means that issues which might need a good amount of time for discussion... wouldn't get that discussion. (You might be able to argue that such discussions should be at WD:RFC, but RFC as it stands isn't the first line of discussion.)
So, it makes sense to me that we could or should selectively integrate the smallest chats into one WD:International chat, with the larger chats continuing to exist apart from it. --Izno (talk) 23:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any updates? --by Revi at 07:42, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Contents
On an aside: We need a help desk[edit]
On an aside, there are a large number of users who need help more than need resolution for questions of policy. We should start a help desk for these users. --Izno (talk) 23:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- This we can start now and without RfC.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:27, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Was this ever made? Ajraddatz (Talk) 01:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Not that I know of.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Was this ever made? Ajraddatz (Talk) 01:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bybrunnen[edit]
Nomatter if this RfC will come to any result or not. I have proposed that WD:PC/sv should be closed and merged with WD:PC. At the moment, I have a link in the navigation-box to a Village Pump where the sun hasn't shined since this project was opened. -- Lavallen (talk) 05:56, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I am pretty sure WD:PC/ru will not like to be closed since most participants do not speak English, and this is a venue they can get advise.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- That is my point, most Swedishspeaking people in Sweden who dare to contribute to WD read/write English well, and many Swedishspeaking in Finland too. I'm not particularly fond of the translation-tools here. On the sv-main page I yesterday read that Wikidata has two new probation officers. It's possible that we have criminals contributing here, but I guess it's not the job of our oversighters to watch them. -- Lavallen (talk) 11:51, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm pretty sure some of that was humor (got a laugh from me). :^) --Izno (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- That is my point, most Swedishspeaking people in Sweden who dare to contribute to WD read/write English well, and many Swedishspeaking in Finland too. I'm not particularly fond of the translation-tools here. On the sv-main page I yesterday read that Wikidata has two new probation officers. It's possible that we have criminals contributing here, but I guess it's not the job of our oversighters to watch them. -- Lavallen (talk) 11:51, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A look at what a multilingual Project Chat might look like... --Yair rand (talk) 21:38, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe we should learn how m:Stewards/Confirm/2014 works to improve this demo.--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:43, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alternative proposal: Merge languages of project chat into 10[edit]
I would like to make an alternative proposal, where the project chats are merged according to the biggest fallback clusters of mediawiki. This leaves us with 10 project chats.
English (en) merged with: Bengali (bn), Bosnian (bs), Belarusian (be), Catalan (ca), Danish (da), Greek (el), Esperanto (eo), Persian (fa), Finnish (fi), Galican (gl), Hebrew (he), Croatian (hr), Hungarian (hu), Ilokano (ilo), Icelandic (is), Latin (la), Gregorian (ka), Korean (ko), Kurdish (ku), Latgalian (lv), Macedonian (mk), Malay (ms), Norwegian (bokmål) (nb), Norwegian (nynorsk) (nn), Occitan (oc), Polish (pl), Portuguese (pt), Romanian (ro), Nothern Sami (se), Slovak (sk), Serbian (sr), Swedish (sv), Thai (th), Turkish (tr), Urdu (ur), Vietnamese (vi).
Russian (ru) merged with: Ukranian (uk)
German (de) merged with: Lower sorbian (dsb), Upper sorbian (hsb), Colognian (ksh)
Spanish (es)
French (fr)
Indonesian (id) merged with: Minangkabau (min)
Italian (it)
Kazakh (kk)
Dutch (nl)
Chinese (zh) merged with: Simplified Chinese (zh-hans), Traditional Chinese (zh-hant) --Snaevar (talk) 01:44, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Sounds good to me, even if somebody can find an 11'th cluster. -- Lavallen (talk) 09:09, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. (Why is the original discussion on this topic not linked to from this page, btw?) --Yair rand (talk) 22:14, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose --by Revi레비 at 10:53, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose --Konggaru (talk) 10:29, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose You can't possibly be serious for merging Bahasa Indonesia with minangkabau.AldNonUcallinme? 17:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose Eh?! English merged with Serbian?!--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:37, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]