Wikidata:WikiProject LD4 Wikidata Affinity Group/Affinity Group Calls/Meeting Notes/2022-07-26

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Call details[edit]

Presentation material[edit]

No separate presentation materials were provided

Notes[edit]

  • Process brief
    • Community input call on Feb 8 (see notes)
    • Key takeaways on community needs:
      • “What not to do”
        • How to remove bad data if needed + ensure it’s not added back – anticipating some limits, pending further convo
      • Selecting (or ignoring) sources for identity/demographic info
      • Contextualising statements that vary over time or by circumstance
    • Currently working as a group with semi-regular meetings
    • Envisioning a few phases to this work, beginning with pronouns (focus of current call)
    • Expecting outputs – flowcharts/docs to go under relevant WikiProject(s) or something more formal; specificities will become clearer in coming weeks
  • Background
  • LGBTdb (Clair Kronk)
    • Project born out of frustration; Has been a Wikidata contributor for some time; Building out some theories of what could work with LGBT and to make sure it’s as robust as possible.
    • Want to make sure that the most complex situations to think of are not breaking anything.
    • Started with pronouns, thinking it was easiest.
    • LGBTdb is a Wikibase instance.
    • Have defined a pronouns: conceptualization of having pronouns as items as opposed to lexemes!  Working on this with 2 grad students contributing an hour a week.
    • Don’t have to change a bunch of entries, as opposed to thousands in regular Wikidata. Bots could change some entries, but not all.
    • Some complex cases: Jadzia Dax from Deep Space Nine character; considered a different entity from previous ones.
    • Dr. Who canon: each doctor is responsible for the actions of previous doctors. In which case all pronouns would be listed on page.
    • Real-life cases; different pronouns based on gender expression, or rather they’re in drag or not.
    • Lot of solutions have been to use qualifiers which may or may not fly in Wikidata itself. How many do you need?
    • Translation issues with certain pronouns (i.e., can result in unintentionally gendered translations)
    • showed example of a person record having a pronoun statement qualified by gender expression (https://lgbtdb.med.yale.edu/entity/P285)
    • distinction between gender modality (https://lgbtdb.med.yale.edu/entity/P13) and gender identity (https://lgbtdb.med.yale.edu/entity/P25) properties
    • Showed examples from LGBTdb:
    • If someone is referred to as a man, doesn’t mean their pronouns are determined. Try to keep data as opinion-less as much as possible.
    • Identifying the gender identity of skeleton:
    • Question: How much structure does a pronoun set have?
      • “five” structure in a pronoun set [notetaker unsure if this answer was captured correctly)
      • in LGBTdb each is its own property; would be referred to as forms or lexemes in Wikidata
    • Question: is there a plan to add the LGBTdb to the Wikibase Registry?
      • Clair: not necessarily “ready”; eventually would be great; longer term goal; only a handful of people working on LGBTdb at the moment
    • Use of series ordinal to indicate preference of pronouns
      • e.g., she/they pronouns, but “she” being used most of the time
    • pronouns need to be items because anything beyond a pronoun set structure is not really possible [using lexemes?] [notetaker unsure if this is expressed correctly here]
    • Having qualifier in relationship to subject/verb
    • Truthiness of individual
      • e.g., is an individual considered the source of truth (not ready to discuss?)
      • If a person lies and we know they are lying do we record it?
      • What if a person includes pronouns as satire, do we record that it is satire?
    • example of Caeneus
      • “Caeneus was originally a woman named Caenis who was transformed into a man by the sea-god Poseidon” -- wikipedia blurb
      • ancient greek doesn’t use english pronouns, so should we attribute an english pronoun at all?
      • should we rely on the conceptualization of an afterlife as what a soul’s “true” gender may be
    • Q: Can you go over the qualifiers for pronouns again? Are temporal qualifiers used as well as qualifiers like in drag/out of drag?
      • example of a friend (outdated example for some) who is trans used to use he/him and deadname when referring to childhood; Clari suggest start and end date as well as a qualifier
      • example: humans from The Left Hand of Darkness where humans are androgynous most of the time and gender identity (as it exists on our planet) does not exist
      • example: Breq from Ancillary Justice
    • Q: What about gender variation by depiction, changing over region/time?
      • example: Guanyin
      • Clair to save ↑ to built out
    • Q: Do ships (generally feminine) have pronouns like people? What about other inanimate objects
      • Clair: everything is gendered in french
    • Q: could we see some LGBTdb person records and compare to how they are currently modeled in Wikidata?
    • Idea to replace personal pronoun (http://www.wikidata.org/entity/P6553)  into a new Item type
      • this is the plan, used a lot of places,
  • Recommendations for Wikidata: Pronouns
  • Action items/call for contributions
    • Pending documentation updates, will put out call for contributions
  • WMLGBT+ User Group
    • spring 2021, received funding for 3 half day working days (QW2021); from that received more funding from foundation to run a Queering Wikipedia 2022 conference
    • issue of queerphobic harassment; misnaming and deadnaming on many wikipedia instances; especially since it is usually required
    • example of french artist Jul’ Maroh enwiki, frwiki, wikidata being misgendered and deadnamed on their wikipedia page; they posted about it on Instagram
    • french wikipedia survey in 2019, outcome: “we can’t use the non-binary pronoun bc it’s not “real” french yet!”
    • User Group wants to work on recommendations for queer biographies; that will be one of the topics at the QW2022 conference
    • Possible to apply for funding from wikimedia foundation to support this work / host sessions on reducing harmful bias in wikimedia; Owen Blacker happy to help here
    • Lane Rasberry is a good person to ask about funding applications
    • Lexicographical data person: VIGNERON

Feel free to ask WMLGBT+ things, get on their communications channels

Questions[edit]

Questions were taken and answered during the session

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