Talk:Q63645073

Autodescription — deficiency (Q63645073)

description: in medicine, lack or shortage of supply or function

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Report on constraint conformation of “deficiency” claims and statements. Constraints report for items data
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Classification of the class deficiency (Q63645073)  

For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.

Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)

deficiency (Q63645073)
- deficiency (Q2184645)
  - flaw (Q1747121)
    - condition (Q813912)
      - state (Q3505845)
        phenomenon (Q483247)
        observable entity (Q30241068)
        entity (Q35120) ⊸
        property (Q937228) ^(#)→
    - undesirable characteristic (Q29479670)
      - ^→(#) property (Q937228)
        abstract entity (Q7048977)
        entity (Q35120) ⊸

Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)

⟨deficiency⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)

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See also

This documentation is generated using {{Item documentation}}.

Organs may be insufficient - while deficient organs are not the same. A calcium deficiency (Q44705078) is not the same as a calcium insuffiency.--Tadarrius Bean (talk) 14:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the difference between calcium deficiency (Q44705078) and calcium insuffiency? Or between a deficient organ and an insufficient organ? Swpb (talk) 15:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Swpb: Do you have a medical background or how have you decided in the first place that they ought to be the same?--Tadarrius Bean (talk) 15:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fix your attitude. No, I don't have a medical background, but if you do, you should be able to explain how the two items are different in a way someone without a medical background can understand. As it stands, the item descriptions, links, and statements do not sufficiently explain what makes them different. Swpb (talk) 15:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Swpb: You've asked myself to show the difference between calcium deficiency and calcium insuffiency; and a deficient organ and an insufficient organ.

It's incredibly rude to continue with edits while the discussion is still ongoing. I couldn't save my edit on 'Insuffizienz' due to a sync conflict. You can't expect me to work under the circumstances of your interference.

At least for my languages I can vouch, that Insuffizienz and -Mangel are strictly not interchangeable.

Please prove to me Swedish insufficiens betecknar [..] funktionssvaghet eller otillräcklig funktion isn't identical to the definition used in German.

'Insuffizienz' has a wide meaning in the German language (compare Insuffizienzgefühl) which is absolutely parallel to Swedish and Estonian. insufficiency (Q106842050) never had any statements restricting it to the medical meaning.--Tadarrius Bean (talk) 16:29, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

insufficiency (Q106842050) does have a statement restricting it to a medical meaning: The YSO ID. Everything on the linked entry is medical in nature. The German Wikipedia article also only uses the term in a medical context. It seems to me there are as many as four concepts here:

Deficiency or insufficiency in general, i.e. not restricted to medicine; this is deficiency (Q2184645), which is where the Swedish Wikipedia and Wiktionary entries seem to belong
Insufficient amount of a substance in the body (no specific item exists)
Insufficient performance of an organ or body part (insufficiency (Q106842050))
A superclass of the above two, covering all medical meanings of the term (deficiency (Q63645073))

Do you agree? If so, then the Wikidata labels and descriptions need to reflect that, because right now they are still ambiguous. Swpb (talk) 18:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is probably that you do not distinguish "words" from "terms", do not realise that both words and terms often have several meanings, and that you can practically never translate a particular term one-to-one into another language. This occasionally produces errors in Wikidata. In German, Insuffizienz and Mangel are strictly not interchangeable. Chrisandres (talk) 13:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a really unhelpful comment. Obviously words have multiple meanings and translation is not exact. This is not about words, it's about concepts. Each Wikidata item must represent a single, precisely defined concept, whether any given language has a word for that concept or not. The description field is there to make the meaning clear. Right now, we have items with vague descriptions and contradictory statements and links. That can't stand. Swpb (talk) 18:42, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your above-mentioned four concepts read in German:

Mangel oder Unzulänglichkeit im Allgemeinen, d. h. nicht auf die Medizin beschränkt; dies ist Mangel (Q2184645),
Unzureichende Menge einer Substanz im Körper (zum Beispiel de:Vitaminmangel)
Unzureichende Leistung eines Organs oder Körperteils (Insuffizienz (Q106842050); zum Beispiel de:Herzinsuffizienz)
"Mangel" and "Insuffizienz" are two different concepts in the German-speaking world, so there is no superclass of the two terms that encompasses the medical meanings of these English terms. (Q63645073)

Yes, I am not helping to blur different meanings of terms. Another example: we differentiate in German between "Begriff" and "Konzept". In English thinking, the meaning of "term" and "concept" makes not the same difference. Chrisandres (talk) 22:27, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Q63645073

Autodescription — deficiency (Q63645073)

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