Talk:Q12546

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Autodescription — Crusades (Q12546)

description: mass military expeditions and wars initiated by the Roman Catholic Church in the High Middle Ages
Useful links:
Classification of the class Crusades (Q12546)  View with Reasonator View with SQID
For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.
Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)
Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)
⟨Crusades⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
Generic queries for classes
See also


Series or type of conflict?[edit]

First Crusade (Q51649) (and the others) are at the same time instance of (P31)/part of (P361) Crusades (Q12546) and this is a nonsense.

Is

Crusades (Q12546) instance of (P31) religious war (Q1827102)

or better

Crusades (Q12546) instance of (P31) group (Q16887380) of (P642) religious war (Q1827102)

?

I think a good solution is to do the following statements:

and so forth.

Or maybe we can create a new item about "Crusade" (singular) and do the following statements:

and so forth. --Horcrux (talk) 15:11, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Horcrux: I like your third option best. One other option would be to say Crusades (Q12546) subclass of (P279) religious war (Q1827102) AND instance of (P31) sequence (Q20937557) of (P642) religious war (Q1827102) as I think most people would find the distinction to be somewhat hair-splitting. But either one I think works. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:26, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Horcrux, ArthurPSmith: Why do you need to duplicate informations ? What is the difference between a subclass and a serie ? Is it pertinent to add both informations ? I think we can simpler just using the minimum of information: a subclass where its different instances use followed by (P156) and/or follows (P155) is a serie, so no need to specify it, just ensure that
"Crusade" subclass of (P279) religious war (Q1827102)
Crusades (Q12546) subclass of (P279) "Crusade"
First Crusade (Q51649) instance of (P31) Crusades (Q12546)
First Crusade (Q51649) followed by (P156) Second Crusade (Q51654) ...
By the way, the difference between "Crusade" and Crusades (Q12546) is valid only if there is other crusades than Crusades (Q12546).
Snipre (talk) 23:56, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from the grammatical problem ("First Crusade is-a Crusades"), the main one is the semantic inconsistency: if X is istance of Y (hypernymy), it cannot be also part of Y (meronymy), at most it can be part of "group of Y". The term "Crusade" is a bit ambiguous because it has been used also for indicating other religious wars (e.g. Q478301), but I don't know if there is an exact definition of it.
In order not to duplicate informations, I'd suggest to state "part of (P361) Crusades (Q12546)" and "instance of (P31) religious war (Q1827102)" for any specfic Crusade. --Horcrux (talk) 01:30, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No sé si os habéis dado cuenta pero habéis puesto que hay nueve cruzadas y solo hay ocho. No sé de donde es esa información pero es errónea. 84.123.81.44 10:57, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q12546&oldid=1551422557"