Talk:Q12131650

Taylor 49, how so (Special:Diff/1299515316)? Locations of burial include cemeteries, burial chambers and alike, rather than place of burial of single person (i.e. grave?). I tried to make this more clear in item description. This is also the context in which many other items link to this item, e.g. where cemetery has role as the location of burial (Q2662644) and that's why cemetery (Q39614) was a subclass of this item (before you removed this relation for some reason). Ukrainian language Wikipedia article linked here also specifically lists cemetery and alike. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:1C49:215:44B:9544 10:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello ... you have a point here, my definiton was ambiguous. I reworded it and re-added your examples (cemeteries & burial chambers), now it is hopefully clear. While the scenario "cemetery has role as the location of burial" is perfectly plausible, "cemetery" should ultimately NOT be subclass of "location of burial". Whether it should be an instance is less obvious ... but I would not claim that either, given that "hospital" is not an instance of "place of birth", and "execution chamber" is not an instance of "place of death". Taylor 49 (talk) 10:29, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

(Special:Diff/1299690088) was good. "part of" is better and sufficient. Taylor 49 (talk) 10:38, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

If cemetery is already given as an example here, then how comes it's not a subclass of this item, and why still "particular dead person" if cemetery is usually a location of burial for many people? Also "as a detail in that persons life; even about a pet animal" in description seems redundant.

As for instances of location of burial and instances of its subclasses, these are particular locations such as Q2662644 linked above (see Help:Basic membership properties). 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:A9E2:1012:24BD:1674 11:47, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Look at cemetery (Q39614) - this is the public place. Wavans British Cemetery (Q2662644) is an instance of cemetery (Q39614) but not of location of burial (Q12131650). "particular dead person" because one person usually dies only one time and is buried at only one place. No particular hospital is subclass of "place of birth" either, despite many people were maybe born there. location of burial (Q12131650) is already subclass of "location of an event". cemetery (Q39614) is NOT a subclass of "location of an event". Please register an account instead of switching IP:s all the time. Taylor 49 (talk) 12:07, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, this is because items are generally set as an instance of the most specific class. This does not mean that item isn't also an instance of all parent classes of this specific class (see subsumption). Hospital on the other hand wouldn't do well as a subclass of "place of birth" because this relation simply isn't universally true for all hospitals (but it probably would be for maternity hospital (Q958822)).

I now realise we might be talking about "location of burial" in slightly different senses. In more strict sense it has cemetery and alike as examples, also it's what de:Kategorie:Bestattungsplatz is for. In more broad sense it's any location (also country, city etc.) where someone is buried. Though, currently it seems to me that this item can and should fit for both senses and there wouldn't be much of a benefit from creating separate item for "location of burial" in strict sense that instead would be parent class for cemetery. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:A9E2:1012:24BD:1674 12:32, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. "cemetery" cemetery (Q39614) shouldn't be a subclass of "location of burial" location of burial (Q12131650) for same resons as "maternity hospital" maternity hospital (Q958822) isn't a subclass of "place of birth" place of birth (Q1322263) and "execution chamber" execution chamber (Q5419773) isn't a subclass of "place of death" place of death (Q18658526), well despite many dead people are buried on cemeteries and many living people were born in maternity hospitals. This item "location of burial" location of burial (Q12131650) should be coordinated with "place of birth" place of birth (Q1322263) and "place of death" place of death (Q18658526). Taylor 49 (talk) 06:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Exactly? Above I outlined pretty much the opposite. As long as cemeteries, burial chambers are locations of burial, they are actually classified as types of locations of burial (as defined e.g. on Ukrainian Wikipedia, or as per German Wikipedia category), then they are its subclasses. Place of birth and place of death are more like whereever as locations, types of locations for stirctly these types of events usually aren't distinguished. As said, location of burial usually stands for cemetery and alike, unlike place of birth/death that usually stands for a city and alike. If you want to define location of burial as broadly and only as broadly as place of birth and place of death, then this probably warrants a separate "place of burial" item. Though, I doubt that this separate item would be actually useful (not to mention it'd probably be difficult to get the distinction for most users). As said I don't see much of a drawback from just carry on using it the way it is/was already used (cemeteries etc. as its subclasses and other existing links implying the same subclass relation). 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:3DBF:3318:F56D:EA72 10:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Not all persons are buried in some cemetery, there can be other "places of burial" (personal grave, or simply some place on the Earth, or some point at the sea...). I advocate for

⟨ cemetery ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ location of burial ⟩

. --Infovarius (talk) 00:35, 2 November 2020 (UTC)