Wikidata:Property proposal/does not have quality

does not have quality[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Not done

Description	Indicate that a certain quality is absent
Data type	Item
Domain	items, lexemes, forms
Example 1	see does not have part (P3113) on ealli (L25088)
Example 2	dark energy (Q18343) Does not have quality gravitational mass (Q1076402) (currently using does not have part (P3113))
Example 3	prisoner (Q1862087) Does not have quality freedom of movement (Q1344824) (currently using does not have part (P3113))<
See also	does not have part (P3113)

Motivation[edit]

The same as does not have part (P3113), but for qualities. I wasn't sure if it was needed even after a discussion about ealli (L25088) and the use of does not have part (P3113). However, I needed only a minute to find use cases this would replace, hence this proposalCirceus (talk) 00:49, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Oppose Use has characteristic (P1552), with a value of "no value". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:37, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Pigsonthewing: I do not understand your example, could you elaborate? where can one put the value if you already put "no value" Germartin1 (talk) 12:08, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - My mistake: I read "gravitational mass" as being a property, not an item. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:02, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Pigsonthewing: No problem, do you still oppose it though? I'd like to know your opinion as you have the most experience. I think there should be fundamental question of negative values, because many qualifiers could have a negative counterpart, ex: valid in place (P3005) -> valid not in place (valid in all places except), etc. Germartin1 (talk) 09:09, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree, this does not work. This is to state the abscence of a quality expected for an object of this kind, so there necessary is a value author TomT0m / talk page 13:14, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I like this proposal, but for these examples one could use as well "has quality" and then use the opposite. Example: prisoner "has quality" captivity (Q2920296); dark energy (Q18343) has quality inertial mass (Q843816) Germartin1 (talk) 12:12, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Circeus: I'll Support for now, but I'm still waiting for your reply Germartin1 (talk) 13:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Because there's not always an opposite (what's the opposite of consonant gradation?). Also, dark energy is not even a quality of dark matter to begin with, it's a theoretical explanation to an entirely different phenomenon: dark matter explains otherwise inconsistent gravitational effects, dark matter has to do with the Universe's accelerated rate of expansion. Circeus (talk) 13:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ok, that makes sense. Germartin1 (talk) 15:07, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment does not have part (P3113) has been proposed for deletion though I think on invalid grounds; I wonder if it would be better to generalize it to include this case? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]