Wikidata:Property proposal/NLI topic id

NLI topic ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Not done

Description	identifier for topics in the National Library of Israel
Represents	National Library of Israel (Q188915)
Data type	External identifier
Template parameter	need to be created in he.wiki
Domain	human (Q5) and many more (structural class of chemical entities (Q47154513), class of chemical substances by use (Q100434640) liberty (Q2979)...)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	Tracy Hickman (Q353137) → value 987007311677105171
Example 2	predation (Q170430) → value 987007533805805171
Example 3	Moses Shapira (Q1246291) → value 987007268051305171
Example 4	academic freedom (Q414706) → value 987007292823905171
Source	https://www.nli.org.il/he
Planned use	already have a list of 26,000 items. to be added using OpenRefine
Formatter URL	https://www.nli.org.il/he/a-topic/$1 * https://www.nli.org.il/he/a-topic/$1 (Hebrew) * https://www.nli.org.il/en/a-topic/$1 (English)
Wikidata project	Wikidata:WikiProject National Library of Israel

Motivation

National Library of Israel (Q188915) id's for topic pages. The first 26k items to be added using OpenRefine tool. The topic pages are pages that gathering all the items (media books etc.) about the topic in the National Library of Israel. Geagea (talk) 14:19, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

 Withdrawn per User talk:Epìdosis#Wikidata:Property proposal. Geagea (talk) 14:50, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

After discussion with Epì - User talk:Epìdosis#Wikidata:Property proposal, I decided to bring the issue to community discussion. When I created this proposal I mentioned the NLI topic id as the extention of the link. for example https://www.nli.org.il/he/a-topic/$1. this $1 nuber is the same as National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189). In a matter of a fact the correct id of NLI topic is the name. I believe that the web link is just for comfortability. The staff of the National worked on unique naming. The NLI topic have 3 labels Hebrew, English and Arabic. It may have only one of the languages or two or three of them. for example: Beit Guvrin (Q830798) have three names:

• Hebrew: https://www.nli.org.il/he/a-topic/987007547547605171
• English: https://www.nli.org.il/en/a-topic/987007547547605171
• Arabic: https://www.nli.org.il/ar/a-topic/987007547547605171

But Paul Otlet (Q1868) have only English: https://www.nli.org.il/en/a-topic/987007281064705171.

So we have three options:

1) creating new property (the needs some modifications)

2) using two values of National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189), one of them with qualifier applies to part (P518)NLI topic (Q110943955)

3) use only one value of National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189), specifying in the reference that the titles apply only to NLI topic (Q110943955) as it is now .

I personally ok with options 1 or 2 as the two id's are not identical even though the web link contains the same number. I would appreciate your advice. Geagea (talk) 12:10, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I would personally support option 3.

Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Epìdosis (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC) Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Bargioni (talk) 09:48, 02 May 2020 (UTC) Carlobia (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC) Pablo Busatto (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC) Matlin (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Msuicat (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Uomovariabile (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC) Silva Selva (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 1-Byte (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Alessandra.Moi (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC) CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC) Songceci (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)]] moz (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC) AhavaCohen (talk) 14:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Kolja21 (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC) RShigapov (talk) 14:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Jason.nlw (talk) 15:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC) MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 20:22, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Newt713 (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC) Pierre Tribhou (talk) 08:00, 20 March 2022 (UTC) Powerek38 (talk) 17:21, 14 April 2022 (UTC) Ahatd (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC) JordanTimothyJames (talk) 00:54, 31 August 2022 (UTC) --Silviafanti (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC) Back ache (talk) 02:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC) AfricanLibrarian (talk) M.roszkowski (talk) 10:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC) Rhagfyr (talk) 19:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC) — Haseeb (talk) 13:10, 4 August 2023 (UTC) 沈澄心✉ 13:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC) MrBenjo (talk) 15:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC) S.v.Mering (talk)

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control. --Epìdosis 20:32, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

JakobVoss (talk) ClaudiaMuellerBirn (talk) Criscod (talk) Daniel Mietchen (talk) Ettorerizza (talk) Ls1g (talk) Pasleim (talk) Hjfocs (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC) PKM (talk) 2le2im-bdc (talk) 20:30, 24 January 2019 (UTC) Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 16:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC) ElanHR (talk) User:Epìdosis (talk) Tris T7 ^{TT me} UJung (talk) 11:43, 24 August 2019 (UTC) Envlh (talk) SixTwoEight (talk) User:SCIdude (talk) Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) Mathieu Kappler (talk) So9q (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Zwolfz (talk) عُثمان (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC) M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:28, 24 September 2023 (UTC) —Ismael Olea (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC) Andrea Westerinen (talk) 23:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC) Peter Patel-Schneider

Notified participants of WikiProject Data Quality. --Epìdosis 20:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

•  Support —MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 20:34, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

  @MasterRus21thCentury: To which of the three solutions listed above by Geagea? Creating a new property, using the same ID as P8189, would be solution 1). Thanks, --Epìdosis 08:30, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Epìdosis (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC) Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Bargioni (talk) 09:48, 02 May 2020 (UTC) Carlobia (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC) Pablo Busatto (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC) Matlin (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Msuicat (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Uomovariabile (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC) Silva Selva (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 1-Byte (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Alessandra.Moi (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC) CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC) Songceci (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)]] moz (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC) AhavaCohen (talk) 14:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Kolja21 (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC) RShigapov (talk) 14:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Jason.nlw (talk) 15:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC) MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 20:22, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Newt713 (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC) Pierre Tribhou (talk) 08:00, 20 March 2022 (UTC) Powerek38 (talk) 17:21, 14 April 2022 (UTC) Ahatd (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC) JordanTimothyJames (talk) 00:54, 31 August 2022 (UTC) --Silviafanti (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC) Back ache (talk) 02:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC) AfricanLibrarian (talk) M.roszkowski (talk) 10:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC) Rhagfyr (talk) 19:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC) — Haseeb (talk) 13:10, 4 August 2023 (UTC) 沈澄心✉ 13:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC) MrBenjo (talk) 15:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC) S.v.Mering (talk)

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control, The actual question is what should be considered as id. only web id or not necessarily. In this case the real id is unique name in Hebrew. English and/or Arabic.

The web link contains the same id as National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) with different link format:

• P8189 link: http://uli.nli.org.il/F/?func=find-b&local_base=NLX10&find_code=UID&request=987007547547605171
• NLI topic link: https://www.nli.org.il/he/a-topic/987007547547605171

The question is which way is preferred to handle this:
A. to create new property.
B. to use the P8189 and create two entries like I have dne her.
C. to use only one enery just like it is now.
So in cases like this does Wikidata id.=web id. or might be differ web id. and other id. Your thoughts on the issue are welcome. Geagea (talk) 09:21, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

• I think using P8189 is generaly enough, and wil do the job. The only problem is places. Unlike LOC which has only one top tier item for and place, NLI has two if a place is both a geographical entity and an author. The will make a 110 item for a place as an author and a seperate 151 item for the place as a subject. DGtal (talk) 22:44, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

עברית: DGtal, אני כנראה לא הסברתי בצורה מוצלחת. הספרייה הלאומית יצרה דפי טופיק/דפי נושא. לכל דף כזה יש מזהה שהוא בדיוק מזהה J9U. באופן כללי המזהה מספיק לנו בשביל לקשר לדפי הטופיק. בוויקיפדיה האיטלקית כבר עושים שימוש בקישור לדפי הטופיק. ראה את הערך הרמב"ם באיטלקית. מופיע שם (topic) ליד ה-J9U. אלא שלא לכל ה-J9U יש דף טופיק וחוץ מזה המזהה האמתי של הדף הוא למעשה השם של הפריט (יכול להיות בעברית, אנגלית או ערבית או של שניים מהם או שלושתם. יש לי רשימה שאני רוצה לעדכן של מזהי טופיק לפי השפות אלא שהאופן שהנתון הוסף נניח לפריט Q830798#P8189 הוא לא מוצלח לדעתי. השם בשפות השונות מופיע בכותר ואילו הקישור מופיע לפי השפות השונות מופיע כמקור. אני הצעתי לכתוב שתי שורות ש-J9U יופיע בשתי שורות כשההבדל בינים יהיה יהיה במבחין applies to part (P518). זה נראה לי נכון יותר. ויקיפדיה העברית יכולה להוסיף קישור לדפי הטופיק כאשר הם בעברית כמובן ולדעתי שיהיה כתוב גם השם בעברית כפי שהוא מופיע בטופיק. הדיון פה הוא בשביל שאחרים ישתתפו בדיון מבחינתי שלא יווצר מאפיין חדש אלא שנוסיף שורה נוספת עם מתייחס לחלק. זה נראה לי נכון יותר וגם דרך שה הטופיק יוכל להופיע בבקרת הזהויות בשם העברי, כי השם העברי (אנגלי/ערבי) הוא המזהה האמיתי של הפריט. קיוינו לקבל חוות דעת של אחרים פה. Geagea (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

עברית: עכשיו הבנתי. לא הכרתי את דפי הנושא בספרייה הלאומית. כמה דפי נושא כאלו קיימים והאם יש דרך אוטומטית שתגרום לסוגריים (דף נושא) להופיע אך ורק במקרים בהם הספרייה יצרה דף נושא ליישות J9U הספציפית הזו? DGtal (talk) 06:11, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

עברית: יש לי רשימה של כ-40,000 דפים עם מזהה השם בשפות השונות. אני יעדכן אותם אוטומטית (באמצעות אופן ריפיין) ברגע שנגיע להסכמה על המתווה. Geagea (talk) 07:03, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

עברית: ואז יהיה אפשר לשאוב רק את הפריטים בהם מופיע השדה בעברית. Geagea (talk) 08:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done, no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:07, 1 June 2023 (UTC)