User talk:Deskana

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April 2013

Welcome to Wikidata, Deskana!

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Best regards! Rschen7754 18:43, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

revert without a reason

Hi Deskana,

I see you reverted my edit without giving a reason: that is not very constructive. The purpose of description in Wikidata is to disambiguate labels/topics. In this case the description "fruit" has proven to be inadequate for the purposes of disambiguation, and more detail is necessary. - Brya (talk) 11:56, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

@Brya: These descriptions are frequently used outside Wikidata to provide additional context, such as in the Wikipedia app and soon in Visual Editor. Outside Wikidata having something like "see Q102" in the description is totally meaningless and confusing to the user. See this example from the iOS Wikipedia app. If this carries on, then people will stop using Wikidata and use a different data source instead. I don't think we want that, since we want Wikidata to be used by people. Just like self-references are avoided in Wikipedia, they should be avoided here. --Deskana (talk) 15:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm also curious why edits like this are tagged if they're actually supposed to be encouraged? --Deskana (talk) 15:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, it is pretty dubious if it is such a good idea to use these descriptions outside Wikidata: they are not meant for that (Wikidata is not a dictionary). Secondly, I don't see it is that harmful to the user, if these description are used anyway: this item needs disambiguation, and the enwiki page starts off with a disambiguation also.

        I can't say I care much for your style of reasoning: however has claimed that the use of Q-number is "to be encouraged"? It is just a desperate measure needed only for really notorious cases. - Brya (talk) 17:45, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Mightn't it be better to improve that description for everyone? Why not identify banana as "long, starchy, tropical fruit, especially one from Musa acuminata or Musa balbisiana plants"? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:00, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

That is not going to help: in that case there are plenty of users who would unhesitatingly put pages on Musa acuminata or Musa balbisiana in the item. - Brya (talk) 11:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

• That is not going to help whom?
• And is helping them the sole permissible goal?
• How do you know that it won't help them? WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:58, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

As in, this is not going to help keep these items in good order. - Brya (talk) 17:57, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

But pointing them to the probably-wrong species will keep the items in good order? One of the things that struck me about this is that "the species" is supposedly just this one particular hybrid, which is wrong. I think that if you only want banana-the-food in this entry, then the description should probably say something like "this is a kind of food that is produced by a banana plant" instead of "if you know what a species is, then please put it in the entry for this plant, which may or may not be the particular species that you're looking for". WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

It is important to keep perspectives in mind. A user who needs this kind of guidance will have the well-known fruit in mind, which is produced by this hybrid. A discriminating user will be able to find the species relevant to him on his own. - Brya (talk) 05:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I think you mean "a user who lives in a country where 'banana' means only 'Cavendish banana' and needs this guidance". A discriminating user might be a plant expert and quit because that we're obviously so ignorant, and a person who has access to a dozen types of bananas at the market but doesn't know much about might just screw up the entries. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Users to who "banana" means a "'Cavendish' banana" are a big group, and they do need guidance. Plant experts are a small group, and any plant expert will already have realized that most Wikipedians are ignorant about plants and is unlikely to object to something of this kind. The person who has access to a dozen types of bananas at the market is the most likely to run into problems, but is the exception here. He will have a hard time anyway. - Brya (talk) 17:55, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

What could we do that works for all of these users, instead of just the average-white-Western-wealthy-country ones? Maybe something that signals "Get more information about all the options over here"? WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

There will not be anything that works for all users (pretty much by definition). But I have not seen any further complaints after I rearranged the description, so it works pretty well. - Brya (talk) 16:32, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

You mean that you haven't seen any complaints except for mine.  ;-) The current description does not work for me, because I will never agree to pretend that there is only one species of banana. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Well:

1. The "description" is not there to give an exact description (Wikidata is not a dictionary): it is there to disambiguate the item.
2. If you had read on within the "description", you would have noticed that it also refers to "and not the genus", and the genus has more than one species.

I don't know what you mean by "40 species of banana" (very fuzzy wording), but obviously, the discussion can be made as complex as you like (but without getting anywhere). - Brya (talk) 10:41, 21 April 2015 (UTC)