Property talk:P19
Documentation
most specific known (e.g. city instead of country, or hospital instead of city) birth location of a person, animal or fictional character
| Description | Place where a person was born | ||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Represents | place of birth (Q1322263), maternity hospital (Q958822), unknown birth place (Q118867832) | ||||||||||||||||
| Data type | Item | ||||||||||||||||
| Template parameter | |birth_place= in en:Template:Infobox person | ||||||||||||||||
| Domain | human (Q5), animal (Q729), abstract being (Q15619164), fictional character (Q95074), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568) or group of fictional characters (Q14514600) | ||||||||||||||||
| Allowed values | place (note: this should be moved to the property statements) | ||||||||||||||||
| Usage notes | 가장 구체적인 장소만 값으로 기재합니다. 즉, 태어난 도시만 알려졌으면 해당 도시 항목을 입력하지만, 태어난 병원이나 장소도 알려졌으면 도시 대신 해당 병원/장소 항목을 값으로 입력합니다. Ange församling/distrikt om möjligt där personen föds | ||||||||||||||||
| Example | Julius Caesar (Q1048) → Rome (Q220) Elena Kagan (Q11105) → New York City (Q60) Jimmy Carter (Q23685) → Lillian G. Carter Nursing Center (Q6548118) Gioachino Rossini (Q9726) → Casa Rossini (Q3661158) | ||||||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P19 (Q19684010) | ||||||||||||||||
| Tracking: local yes, WD no | no label (Q32764796) | ||||||||||||||||
| <complementary property> | place of death (P20) | ||||||||||||||||
| See also | category for people born here (P1464), date of birth (P569), place of burial (P119) | ||||||||||||||||
| Lists | |||||||||||||||||
| Living people protection class | property that may violate privacy (Q44601380) | ||||||||||||||||
| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||||||
| Current uses |
| ||||||||||||||||
| Search for values |
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Target required claim P17, SPARQL, SPARQL (by value)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Type Q5, Q729, Q15619164, Q95074, Q21070568, Q14514600, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Value type Q2221906, Q3895768, Q27096213, Q3238337, Q6999, Q11446, Q16391167, Q18670171, Q811979, Q115095765, SPARQL
if [item A] has this property (place of birth (P19)) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Contemporary, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#single best value, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#citation needed
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Entity types
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P19#Scope, SPARQL
People are all born at some place (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item p:P19/a wdno:P19 ; wdt:P31 wd:Q5 } LIMIT 100List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P19#Items with P19 = "no value" (P31=Q5)
Born in a cemetery (Q39614) (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P19/wdt:P31/wdt:P279* wd:Q39614. }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P19#Born in a cemetery
Discussion[edit]
Qualifiers[edit]
The property place of birth (P19) defines the most specific place i.e. city. However, it would be good to know what was the country at the time. The history of Europe (Q46) is full of events, and the borders (border (Q133346)) were changed frequently. So I propose to use country (P17) as a qualifier in the property to let it know. The example I did can be seen in Frédéric Chopin (Q1268). Is it a good idea or not? Paweł Ziemian (talk) 21:25, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
- I agree. How can it place of birth (P19) be modified in that sense? Tom Paine (talk) 19:53, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Oppose Excessive duplication of information, this is wrong in terms of databases cause we can usually get this data through the hierarchical located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of the item specified in the place of birth (P19). if something needs to be corrected, then you will have to change all the items born in the city in a specific period, while using the hierarchy of elements allows you to restrict yourself to one edit. I admit the use of these qualifiers in exceptional cases when this hierarchy via located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) is broken, but in other cases it looks as absurd as adding qualifiers like country of citizenship (P27) or occupation (P106) to the spouse (P26) instead of more correct editing of the spouse's own element. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
- En este caso concreto, se conoce todo perfectamente. En primer lugar porque es Un Antepasado mío, que era El Hermano Mayor de mi Tatarabuela y tengo todos sus documentos. Y en segundo lugar porque soy historiadora y toda mi familia materna es de la población en la que dicen que nació. Todos los documentos de Roque Bárcia, firmados por El, Obras, Libros y Poemas, dicen que Nació en La Ciudad de Sevilla, Ciudad del Guadalquivir, y suponer que 200 años despues, personas sin ningún documento real y sin conocimiento alguno de historia, decidan, por intereses particulares, el lugar donde nació alguién de sobra conocido, es algo muy grave. El pasado año ni sabían donde estaba enterrado, se lo tuve que decir yo misma. Me gustaría que me mostraran un solo documento donde diga que nació en Isla Cristina y se lo llevaron corriendo a Bautizar a Sevilla, cuando su padre estaba en ese momento trabajando en Sevilla. Mi Tatarabuela, su hermana pequeña también nació en Sevilla igual que El. Daría igual en el lugar que hubiese nacido, si no existiese una voluntad de falsificar los datos históricos para beneficio de algunos. Tal cosa carece de sentido. Todos sus documentos pone que nació en Sevilla. Voy a tener que subir todos los enlaces al respecto, ya que los documentos me los borraron, supuestamente por no tener permisos, cuando todos esos documentos tienen 150 a 200 años y son totalmente públicos en España. Además, Roque Bárcia no tiene ya herederos directos, los más directos son unos primos míos y yo misma. Chavelasoler (talk) 05:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- In case anyone wonders: Chavelasoler is probably talking about Roque Barcia Martí (Q3328512). Not sure how this is relevant here. --Emu (talk) 08:53, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- En este caso concreto, se conoce todo perfectamente. En primer lugar porque es Un Antepasado mío, que era El Hermano Mayor de mi Tatarabuela y tengo todos sus documentos. Y en segundo lugar porque soy historiadora y toda mi familia materna es de la población en la que dicen que nació. Todos los documentos de Roque Bárcia, firmados por El, Obras, Libros y Poemas, dicen que Nació en La Ciudad de Sevilla, Ciudad del Guadalquivir, y suponer que 200 años despues, personas sin ningún documento real y sin conocimiento alguno de historia, decidan, por intereses particulares, el lugar donde nació alguién de sobra conocido, es algo muy grave. El pasado año ni sabían donde estaba enterrado, se lo tuve que decir yo misma. Me gustaría que me mostraran un solo documento donde diga que nació en Isla Cristina y se lo llevaron corriendo a Bautizar a Sevilla, cuando su padre estaba en ese momento trabajando en Sevilla. Mi Tatarabuela, su hermana pequeña también nació en Sevilla igual que El. Daría igual en el lugar que hubiese nacido, si no existiese una voluntad de falsificar los datos históricos para beneficio de algunos. Tal cosa carece de sentido. Todos sus documentos pone que nació en Sevilla. Voy a tener que subir todos los enlaces al respecto, ya que los documentos me los borraron, supuestamente por no tener permisos, cuando todos esos documentos tienen 150 a 200 años y son totalmente públicos en España. Además, Roque Bárcia no tiene ya herederos directos, los más directos son unos primos míos y yo misma. Chavelasoler (talk) 05:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
What is a geographical feature?[edit]
Edits such as [1] Tamawashi added about 480 thousands restriction violations [2] because all the most common types are no longer correct, for instance 269209 values corresponding to a city are no longer classified as geographical features. What to do? --Nemo 15:19, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
- I replaced geographical feature (Q618123) to geographic location (Q2221906). Lets wait for the report update. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 18:26, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
- Muuch better! Thanks. --Nemo 09:41, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- User:Nemo_bis - It seems that [1] removed items from the subclass tree of "geographical feature". The tree is now "human geographic territorial entity" -> "geographic territorial entity" (2D) -> "geographic region" (2D, 3D) -> "geographical feature". Anyway, Q2221906 "geographic location" looks much better. Tamawashi (talk) 04:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
- He changed the constraint to something that most values respect. --Nemo 06:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
- User:Nemo_bis - It seems that [1] removed items from the subclass tree of "geographical feature". The tree is now "human geographic territorial entity" -> "geographic territorial entity" (2D) -> "geographic region" (2D, 3D) -> "geographical feature". Anyway, Q2221906 "geographic location" looks much better. Tamawashi (talk) 04:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
- Muuch better! Thanks. --Nemo 09:41, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
method[edit]
The Swedish registry of course collects information about this. The problem is that the filed location normally is where the mother of the child lived, or more exactly, where she was filed in the registry-books when the birth took place. Princess Estelle, Duchess of Östergötland (Q214025) was born at Karolinska University Hospital (Q1734280), a hospital. But the registry-information records of where her mother lived when she gave birth, is in this case Haga Palace (Q5574523). I guess we need some kind of qualifier to denote what kind of "birth place" is recorded. This is a constant issue of debate on svwp, so I would appreciate a simple solution for this. (Me, myself is an example when such information gives strange results. I was born at a hospital in the neighbor city, my mother had her registry filed at her parents house outside of town, but she actually lived with my father in the town.) -- Innocent bystander (talk) 14:55, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- Similar situation for Chinese peoples was resolved by creating separate property: ancestral home (P66). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 18:16, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- When I read the article, the Chinese "ancestral home" looks more connected to the origin of somebodies family, than to the place of birth? That makes it more natural as a separate property, than the Swedish registry-model does. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 19:15, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Suggest add qualifier P969 (P969)[edit]
For place of birth and place of death I would like to suggest that Property:P969 be allowed as a qualifier. Where there is address specific detail it would be worthwhile to capture this detail where known. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:05, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
P131 cleanup[edit]
At some point, I think a bot added a P131 qualifier to some P19-statements. The bot was stopped, but a cleanup was never done. Currently there are some 17000 items with that qualifier (compared to 2,224,645 statements). I suggest we remove them. --- Jura 12:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
- It would be great if someone could remove unnecessary qualifiers. But this cannot be done automatically for all items. For some elements, qualifiers are added because a place/date pair is not enough for a detailed indication of the place of birth. —putnik 16:23, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
- +1. --Yair rand (talk) 01:03, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
single value constraint should not apply for this property[edit]
Another source may have another place of birth, doesn't it?. AFAIK, Wikidata is not a site that defines one truth, but collect any of written fact as data. --Suisui (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Country as a place of birth[edit]
Ok, since Bovlb wants me to start discussion, I'll do it here. We have disagreement with MovieFex regarding possibility to add to wikidata Yves Cape (Q4212809)place of birth (P19)Belgium (Q31) with reference to imdb. I believe it is absolutely ok to add country as a place of birth if that's the level of details known so far. This practice reflects consensus de facto, see: Ben Stassen (Q26200), Anne Morelli (Q274034), Marc Van de Mieroop (Q280912), Peter Verhoyen (Q356110) and thousands of other items. Ghuron (talk) 07:06, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- An item for the hospital or a house would be better, but if we only have the country of birth, I don't see why not to include it with P19. --- Jura 07:24, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- Not sure if this is relevant here, but maybe it's worth noting that some sources confuse country of birth with country of citizenship. --- Jura 07:39, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- Yes. Country can be the "most specific known" place of birth (P19) for some items. I don't see any problem here. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 10:40, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- Country is fine if that's all we know (and it often is). Of course replacing it with something more precise would be better, but it's not always possible, and better country than nothing. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
- I myself have always added the country as place of birth if nothing more specific is available - a country is a place after all. I come up to this often with regards to Asian singers and actors/actresses who's exact place of birth is not shared about 50% of the time or conflicting locations are given around the web, in that case the county seems a valid choice as a base to build on for later, if more is known then I update it. Also P19 in no way suggest to me that there is a minimum requirement for the location, ie city or hospital, it just advises to be as specific as possible. --Redalert2fan (talk) 16:35, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
@Emu: "Not necessary – can be determined based on the item" - right only for current countries. Ex: Romania could be Kingdom of Romania, Romanian People's Republic, Socialist Republic of Romania.- Coagulans (talk) 11:14, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Coagulans: Then the modeling of the city is incomplete, see for example Q1741#P17. --Emu (talk) 12:08, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't know it, thank you. - Coagulans (talk) 12:18, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Amaro Pargo[edit]
The entities Amaro Rodríguez Felipe and San Cristóbal de La Laguna should be contemporary to be linked through place of death, but the latest end value of Amaro Rodríguez Felipe is 4 October 1747 (Gregorian) and the earliest start value of San Cristóbal de La Laguna is 1833: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q574014
Answer: The truth is that the town was founded with this name already in 1496. In 1833 it was established as a municipality but the town existed before. You can check it on the city's own website: https://www.aytolalaguna.es/ayuntamiento/el-municipio/
I quote and translate: "El Municipio de San Cristóbal de La Laguna ocupa una superficie de 102,93 kms2. La Ciudad fue fundada en el siglo XV y hasta el siglo XIX fue la capital de la Isla de Tenerife".... English: The Municipality of San Cristóbal de La Laguna occupies an area of 102.93 km2. The City was founded in the 15th century and until the 19th century it was the capital of the Island of Tenerife.
Therefore it is not an error. 87.223.192.39 17:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Automatic adding of "place of birth and death" category to Commons categories[edit]
Hi
Please edit this property and place of death (P20), so, whenever a value is allocated to these properties, a category gets added to the Commons category of the subject. Like "date of birth" and "date of death" properties, that add "Category:**** births" or "Category:**** deaths".
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