User talk:Robert.Allen
Welcome to Wikidata, Robert.Allen!
Wikidata is a free knowledge base that you can edit! It can be read and edited by humans and machines alike and you can go to any item page now and add to this ever-growing database!
Need some help getting started? Here are some pages you can familiarize yourself with:
- Introduction – An introduction to the project.
- Wikidata tours – Interactive tutorials to show you how Wikidata works.
- Community portal – The portal for community members.
- User options – including the 'Babel' extension, to set your language preferences.
- Contents – The main help page for editing and using the site.
- Project chat – Discussions about the project.
- Tools – A collection of user-developed tools to allow for easier completion of some tasks.
Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask on Project chat. If you want to try out editing, you can use the sandbox to try. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and become an active editor for Wikidata.
Best regards! --VIGNERON (talk) 14:23, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Charles de Moreau[edit]
Hi Robert, I want to merge:
You've marked them as different from (P1889). Can you please check? de:Charles de Moreau ("Die Angaben in der Literatur über Moreau, insbesondere über seine Frühzeit in Frankreich, sind widersprüchlich und fehlerhaft.") and en:Jean-Charles-Alexandre Moreau ("... who in 1803 moved to Austria, where he was known as Karl Moreau ... see de:Charles de Moreau") write about the same person. --Kolja21 (talk) 19:13, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- This conclusion appears to be based on a single primary sorce which I have not been able to verify, so I cannot support the merger at this time. If you can find evidence from a secondary source supporting this conclusioin, then I might change my mind. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Are you able to read the articles? Do you have any prove that these are two persons? --Kolja21 (talk) 19:35, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- There are plenty of sources that can be cited that state Jean-Charles-Alexandre Moreau died in 1810 and Benezit says that he exhibited at the Paris Salons up to 1810. We have to show that these sources are incorrect. Furthermore, the VIAF files and other identity files have not been merged, so the burden is the opposite, and in my opinion, we have to be certain that they are indeed the same before we can merge. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Have you personally read the Kastner article? --Robert.Allen (talk) 20:01, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- If you have more information, I would be happy to read about en:Charles de Moreau ("Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name") and I will correct or add the information on German WP. VIAF is showing the opposite as you were suggesting. There is only one "Moreau, Charles, b. 1758 or 1760": One in ULAN, one in LCAuth, one in GND and one in the Swiss National Library. Of cause there might be more people with that name, but the two items in Wikidata will be most likely merged by the next user unless Wikipedia differentiates between the two persons. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:14, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- There are plenty of sources that can be cited that state Jean-Charles-Alexandre Moreau died in 1810 and Benezit says that he exhibited at the Paris Salons up to 1810. We have to show that these sources are incorrect. Furthermore, the VIAF files and other identity files have not been merged, so the burden is the opposite, and in my opinion, we have to be certain that they are indeed the same before we can merge. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- I think perhaps you are confusing things. Benezit has two entries, that is, Benezit has identified two different persons with similar names Charles Moreau and Karl Moreau. If an identity file shows a death date of 1810, then that corresponds to the Benezit entry B00125523 ("Moreau, Charles"). If it has a death date of 1841 (or so), then it corresponds to Benezit entry B00125557 ("Moreau, Karl Ritter von"). The only souerce that says they are the same person is Kastner. If you have not read Kastner's article and cannot vouch for it's validity, you should not merge the files. --Robert.Allen (talk) 22:36, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Are you able to read the articles? Do you have any prove that these are two persons? --Kolja21 (talk) 19:35, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Q78719138[edit]
Hi,
This item Gluck. Sein Leben. Seine Musik (Q78719138) is wrongly mixing several different concept. You might want to take a look at Wikidata:WikiProject Books to see how books are supposed to be modeled and to correct this item.
Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 17:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Literary work is too general. It can include poems, short stories, journal articles, etc. I'm sure we've discussed this before. I do not remember that many editors agreed with you. --Robert.Allen (talk) 17:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Did you take a look at Wikidata:WikiProject Books, over almost a decade hundreds of editors worked on writing this model. For instance, "poems, short stories" goes into genre (P136) not instance of (P31). . Literary work is indeed general, it's on purpose like human (Q5) is general for a person ; the more precise details are store on other properties.
- Anyway, Gluck. Sein Leben. Seine Musik (Q78719138) should be fixed (at the very least the constraint violation). Could you do it?
- Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 18:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, but look at Q2568463 or Q465395. Lots of editors who contribute here do not work on or care to read Wikidata:WikiProject Books. The model there flies in the face of common sense. I think you are facing a losing battle. Also, 'person' is a synonym for 'human'. Not a good analogy. --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for mentionning this two items, I corrected them (who where mostly good and not mixing work and editions). I do hundreds of correction every month and did millions of edit, I'm not afraid of a few more correction. Data quality is not easy but it's a good fight. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 19:16, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- You removed "instance of book" from Gluck. Sein Leben. Seine Musik (Q78719138), but did not add another statement to replace it. Shouldn't we add another statement? Should one use distribution format (P437)? If that's the case, which value should one choose: book format, print book, or print book format? I don't understand the differences. I also don't understand the guidance concerning this property at Wikidata:WikiProject Books#Edition item properties. Yes, an ISBN is different for paperbacks and hardbacks, but can one add more than one ISBN for a given instance of version, edition, or translation? If not, then why does one need a qualifier for the ISBN? It should be covered by the "distribution format" statement, but that property doesn't seem to have allowed values hardback (Q193955); paperback (Q193934). --Robert.Allen (talk) 23:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Also, why does K10plus PPN ID (P6721) have a conflict with instance of literary work (Q7725634)? It's the same ISBN. --Robert.Allen (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hi,
- Thanks for you questions. Yes, I just removed book (Q571) which was just a quick fix, not a full solution. I stopped there as I was a bit confused by this item, you should never ever have version, edition or translation (Q3331189) and literary work (Q7725634) at the same time. It's either one of the other but not both as these 2 classes are opposite (a work is intangible and multilingual, an edition is tangible and a specific langue(s) ). I guess you wanted to do an edition but not sure. Also the has edition or translation (P747) is weird.
- Yes, distribution format (P437) can be used as a qualifier for the ISBN like you did. And yes, values hardback (Q193955) or paperback (Q193934) are allowed. ISBN-13 (P212) has as single-value constraint (Q19474404), this is why you need a qualifier if you store multiple values. That said, if it's different edition, then you should have several items (one for each edition), we only store multiple value in an item for similar editions ("homothetic" as publishers sometimes says).
- I hope, it answered your questions. I'm available if you have more question or if you want precisions.
- Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 08:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Also, why does K10plus PPN ID (P6721) have a conflict with instance of literary work (Q7725634)? It's the same ISBN. --Robert.Allen (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- You removed "instance of book" from Gluck. Sein Leben. Seine Musik (Q78719138), but did not add another statement to replace it. Shouldn't we add another statement? Should one use distribution format (P437)? If that's the case, which value should one choose: book format, print book, or print book format? I don't understand the differences. I also don't understand the guidance concerning this property at Wikidata:WikiProject Books#Edition item properties. Yes, an ISBN is different for paperbacks and hardbacks, but can one add more than one ISBN for a given instance of version, edition, or translation? If not, then why does one need a qualifier for the ISBN? It should be covered by the "distribution format" statement, but that property doesn't seem to have allowed values hardback (Q193955); paperback (Q193934). --Robert.Allen (talk) 23:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for mentionning this two items, I corrected them (who where mostly good and not mixing work and editions). I do hundreds of correction every month and did millions of edit, I'm not afraid of a few more correction. Data quality is not easy but it's a good fight. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 19:16, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, but look at Q2568463 or Q465395. Lots of editors who contribute here do not work on or care to read Wikidata:WikiProject Books. The model there flies in the face of common sense. I think you are facing a losing battle. Also, 'person' is a synonym for 'human'. Not a good analogy. --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
The correct solution was to link the French article to the correct Wikidata item Q61557606, not to change the description on the item for the theatre company Q825805 to conflict with it. --Robert.Allen (talk) 22:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Your solution is not valid since there is not any article linked to this wiki data item and all the articles for example the German and Italian ones speak of the theatre not of the company. I think the management of those data seems wrong in Wikidata. Regards. - LeoAlig (talk) 22:23, 14 November 2021 (UTC) LeoAlig (talk) 22:35, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- If the other articles are primarily concerned with the building, not the company, then those page links should be moved to the Wikidata item for the building (Salle Feydeau Q61557606). It's unfortunate that these types of articles conflate the building with the company, a distinction that is necessary at Wikidata. For example, compare Metropolitan Opera (Q10583424) and Metropolitan Opera House (Q188031). --Robert.Allen (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Hi @Robert.Allen
I've removed the signature and kept the best (clearest). There is no reason why there is more than 1 signature in wikidata (with no additional qualifiers) If there's another reason I'd love to hear it :) RVA2869 (talk) 08:16, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
- This artist is primarily known by his signature. There is no "best" signature, they are all authentic. Three examples gives an idea of the range. --Robert.Allen (talk) 08:34, 11 July 2022 (UTC)