Wikidata:Property proposal/local time

local time

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Not done

Description	MISSING
Represents	qualifier for properties that have a date
Data type	Item
Allowed values	time of day (Q1260524)
Example 1	Valentina Blackhorse (Q92079066) date of death (P570) 23 April 2020 → 22:22 (Q55812761)
Example 2	Barack Obama (Q76) date of birth (P569) 4 August 1961 → 19:24 (Q55812651)
Example 3	2019 Whakaari / White Island eruption (Q77929275) point in time (P585) 9 December 2019 → 14:11 (Q55811653)
Example 4	see query for 1100 others
Planned use	replace refine date (P4241) in https://w.wiki/aZs
See also	refine date (P4241)

Motivation

The obituary for Valentina Blackhorse (Q92079066) makes it clear that there is cultural significance given to the time at which this person died. Defining this in Wikidata is not possible at the moment. 1Veertje (talk) 18:03, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

• currently we use refine date (P4241) for that.--GZWDer (talk) 22:20, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

ah, that works. Thank you. I'll add "local time" as an alias there. 1Veertje (talk) 21:50, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

•  Neutral —Eihel (talk) 07:02, 22 March 2021 (UTC)  Oppose Local time requires additional information, location. located in time zone (P421), valid in period (P1264) and citation needed constraint (Q54554025) must be added. refine date (P4241) takes care of all that (as long as there is a date…). —Eihel (talk) 03:29, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

 Support  Comment To me the qualifier seem valid as people might know the local time but not the whole system that it refers to (Example: UTC time, GPS time, sun time, etc) nor the characteristics (time zone, etc). And I don't see how to do it with refine date (P4241) but I could have missed something. Maybe there is another way to do it but no one suggested it yet and I didn't find any. GNUtoo (talk) 20:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@GNUtoo: Any time you want can be specified with refine date (P4241) as long as there is an Wikidata item to represent it and you can make a new one if you need one does not already exist. This proposal specifies the same data type Item so it is no different. —Uzume (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

@Uzume: Do you have any examples that are already using refine date (P4241)? GNUtoo (talk) 17:57, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

@GNUtoo: How about the examples from above: Q92079066#P570, Q76#P569, Q77929275#P585? You will notice refine date (P4241) is specifically allowed as an allowed qualifiers constraint (Q21510851) on many if not most of the properties with a Point in time entity type (see Special:ListProperties/time): Property:P39#P2302, Property:P108#P2302, Property:P569#P2302, Property:P570#P2302, Property:P571#P2302, Property:P577#P2302, Property:P582#P2302, Property:P1636#P2302, Property:P2031#P2302, Property:P2032#P2302, and some Quantity ones too: Property:P2196#P2302, Property:P2402#P2302, Property:P2437#P2302. And that is just a quick list I threw together and is certainly not complete. —Uzume (talk) 19:51, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. So practically speaking to do a 100% functional equivalent of "local time" you need to add a time to some time property, like date of birth (P569) → 01/01/2001 and add refine date (P4241) → local time (Q3883775) as qualifier? If that's the case, I've another question: As the depth of qualifiers is limited (you can't have an infinite depth of qualifiers on qualifiers on qualifiers, etc) are there cases where something like date of birth (P569) → 01/01/2001 + refine date (P4241) → local time (Q3883775) doesn't work and a local time qualifier is really needed? GNUtoo (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@GNUtoo: I honestly cannot say I understand what you are asking. As for the "depth of qualifiers" goes there is no such thing. Wikibase entities like items and properties can have an arbitrary number of statements making claims using properties (including multiple with the same properties). Each statement can further have an arbitrary number of qualifiers but qualifiers do not have any qualifiers themselves (so does that make the effective "depth" one?). In addition each statement can have an arbitrary number of references where each reference is a collection of an arbitrary number of property-value entries. Since there can be be as many claims as needed with as many qualifiers as needed there is no effective limit, save resource limitations (we do not have infinite computing resources so there are always limits there). —Uzume (talk) 17:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

•  Support even if other qualifiers would be needed. --- Jura 16:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

  @Jura1: And just how would that be any different from refine date (P4241)? —Uzume (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • values are a subset and eventually may be converted to the Wikibase time values. Something that isn't possible for almost all other values currently used with P4241. --- Jura 07:55, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

•  Comment I'll stay in my position: creating a property requires a minimum of 2 examples and the proposal specifies to include 3 examples. (and property creators shouldn't vote for - in that sense IMHO) —Eihel (talk) 09:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
•  Oppose As per GZWDer, this can already be accomplished via refine date (P4241). —Uzume (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
•  Comment another advantage of making this a separate property is that we could more easily check for presence of a timezone qualifier, with or without the proposed constraint (phab:T175562). --- Jura 09:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Oppose Per GZWDer and Uzume. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥
• @1Veertje, GZWDer, Eihel, GNUtoo: @Uzume, Jura1, Tinker Bell:  Not done Stale, not supported. Use refine date (P4241) instead for now. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:33, 24 June 2021 (UTC)