User talk:Jura1/B/83/B/1aruJ:klat resU
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Hospital and hospital building
Hi! You reverted quite some changes here and here. Which part of it exactly is "not used that way"? Distinction between organization and building seems quite clear to me: hospital may operate in several buildings and over course of time it may operate in different buildings. Separate class item Q39364723 for hospital building already existed and it is in use (currently has 344 instances). My assumption is that class Q16917 should be for organization then, though to a degree it mixes builing and organization and hence needed/needs some cleanup. If Q16917 has instances that specifically are about buildings then these should probably be corrected to be instances of Q39364723 instead, and it's easier to find and correct these after the class item has been cleaned up (i.e. organization class is no longer a building subclass). 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 08:11, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think it's something to discuss on the relevant WikiProject. What type of content were you trying to add? --- Jura 10:08, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I was just checking if juridical persons (including some hospitals) that I'm working with are instances of organizations which they are supposed to be. What exactly is you concern with my attempt to clear things up a little that should be discussed in wikiproject? 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:19, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- There is no need to "clear things up a little". If you want to add items for juridical persons (whatever that may be), please make them. --- Jura 10:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Well, as described above, organization and building are different kinds of entities. hospital (Q16917) however currently mixes these, it isn't clear which is it about. So how comes that it is shouldn't be cleared up? Or, to put it differently, what would be the downside of clearing it up the way I did? 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mainly breaking the current structure (no content is actually added). As mentioned above, if you want to change and add information about some persons, please bring it up on the relevant WikiProject. --- Jura 10:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I'm quite sure I'm not breaking things, at least not anything that is broken or dubious already anyway. Can you give an example of which part of the structure you think I broke? Without knowing what is the actual concern I don't know what should I discuss in wikiproject.
- I understand there may be items that are specifically about buildings that may be instances of hospital (Q16917) currently. However, since we have separate item for hospital buildings that should probably be used instead for these instances, then I think it's only good that such inconsistencies will come out in queries more easily due to my change. So they can be cleaned up more easily. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:44, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Are you arguing that organization and building are not clearly distinct? Or that this distinction should be kept fuzzy on Wikidata for some reason, and so Q39364723 should be merged into Q16917 instead, perhaps? 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:50, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I'm just saying that the change would need discussion, but if you want to add items about persons (holding, property or operating companies), you can do that without breaking the current structure. --- Jura 10:55, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- The way I see it is that I corrected an obvious mistake in data structure. To my knowledge, corrections to obvious mistakes doesn't have to be discussed beforehand. As already indicated, I can't rule out that I miss something here, but you are not telling what is the actual concern. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 11:12, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- It's unclear what your agenda is. Do you usual edit with an account? --- Jura 11:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think that by now I have described in considerable extent why I did the change and why I think it is good to do so. What exactly about it you want me to elaborate on?
- While I'm aware of the benefits of eding with an account and the limitations of not doing so, I have chosen not to edit with an account. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 11:37, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Well, if you are interested in adding content, I could help you doing so. If you don't .. no need then. ----- Jura 11:41, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Alright, I may ask for your help in future. In this case however the question is about proper item classification, rather than adding new content. I work on both. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 11:54, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe it's better to view this in light of actual content additions. Otherwise you just create maintenance work for volunteers doing so and actually building Wikidata. --- Jura 12:11, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I consider these changes as part of this maintenace work. In turn I expect that if I'm being accused of breaking things then this is done in light of actual content that actually was broken. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 12:45, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe it's better to view this in light of actual content additions. Otherwise you just create maintenance work for volunteers doing so and actually building Wikidata. --- Jura 12:11, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Alright, I may ask for your help in future. In this case however the question is about proper item classification, rather than adding new content. I work on both. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 11:54, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Well, if you are interested in adding content, I could help you doing so. If you don't .. no need then. ----- Jura 11:41, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- It's unclear what your agenda is. Do you usual edit with an account? --- Jura 11:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- The way I see it is that I corrected an obvious mistake in data structure. To my knowledge, corrections to obvious mistakes doesn't have to be discussed beforehand. As already indicated, I can't rule out that I miss something here, but you are not telling what is the actual concern. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 11:12, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mainly breaking the current structure (no content is actually added). As mentioned above, if you want to change and add information about some persons, please bring it up on the relevant WikiProject. --- Jura 10:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- Well, as described above, organization and building are different kinds of entities. hospital (Q16917) however currently mixes these, it isn't clear which is it about. So how comes that it is shouldn't be cleared up? Or, to put it differently, what would be the downside of clearing it up the way I did? 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:28, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- There is no need to "clear things up a little". If you want to add items for juridical persons (whatever that may be), please make them. --- Jura 10:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I was just checking if juridical persons (including some hospitals) that I'm working with are instances of organizations which they are supposed to be. What exactly is you concern with my attempt to clear things up a little that should be discussed in wikiproject? 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:D1C5:78A8:7CD:97B1 10:19, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
I thought we'd settled this as there was no further reply and so I restored my change. Now you reverted again, still without providing any indication of why it shouldn't be the way I did. Additionally I provided the examples of Q41487 and Q1137809, or Q7075 and Q856584, that also use statements in similar manner. Also, you reinstated a couple of obvious errors: Q16917 isn't a particular medical organization (an instance) and subclass of relation should be used instead, and also all hospitals aren't emergency services.
I still don't know what is there to discuss about my change. The way you repeatedly revert however may need to be discussed as conduct issue at some other venue. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:1400:47CB:F7D9:B4C9 09:14, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
- There is no use to discuss this here: it's something that needs to be changed on the level of the WikiProject. As mentioned, if you want to add details about persons (holding, property or operating companies) I'd be happy to help. --- Jura 09:18, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
- Then please do start this discussion on a wikiproject and describe to them what you think is the concern. I don't even know which wikiproject you have in mind, not to mention what the concern is. 2001:7D0:81F7:B580:1400:47CB:F7D9:B4C9 09:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)