Talk:Q185674

Matter

I removed "matter" from the "subclass of" statement, but we need some consideration of what the correct superclass is. The-erinaceous-one (talk) 23:42, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Why did you do this? It is well-known that matter can exist in (at least?) in 2 hypostases - field and essense. flow velocity (Q61010277) isn't the same as velocity (Q11465). --Infovarius (talk) 21:50, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

@Infovarius: I don't understand your comment. How is a field (such as a vector field) a type of matter? Matter is "substance that has mass and takes up space by having volume" (from English Wikipedia) and a field does neither. The-erinaceous-one (talk) 03:09, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(ru)Материя (may be en:Matter is not ideal translation?) is something that exists physically, in reality. The matter (was at Q28728771) can be in form of substance (that has mass, now at Q35758? probably better at Q10683158) and in form of field (Q185674) (which has intensity). @The-erinaceous-one: according to physics you can't really differ substance from field, even the mass can be interpreted as geometrical curvater of space, and field interactions can be interpreted in a sense of particle interaction. Do you agree? @Swpb: please comment, I don't agree with your moves and merge. And I don't understand the purpose of physical substance (Q28732711) item. Or probably Q28728771 would be better as substance, while Q35758 is for general matter. --Infovarius (talk) 07:49, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Here are the relevant classes according to their English descriptions, from broadest to narrowest. I have tried to attach Wikipedia articles, based on their content rather than title, to the items with the closest matching English descriptions, but descriptions and labels in other languages may need to be adjusted:

1. material entity (Q112276019) – all entities that are in any sense physical, meaning not just matter and energy, but presumably empty spacetime as well.
2. physical substance (Q28732711) – all entities that interact gravitationally, i.e. have energy, meaning matter and field (Q185674). "matter–energy" is probably a better label. This is what ru:Материя_(физика) appears to describe.
3. matter (Q35758) – all entities with rest mass: quarks, leptons, and their composite particles up to atoms etc. (and maybe the massive elementary bosons as well?). The classical definition of "matter". Q28728771 was the same thing: massive particles and anti-particles. This is what ru:Вещество appears to describe. The Russian item description is a little vague.
4. Q28921572 – matter (as immediately above) excluding anti-quarks and anti-leptons.
5. baryonic matter (Q6005984) – common matter composed of baryons (composites of odd numbers of quarks, mostly meaning nucleons), and leptons.
6. ordinary matter (Q28555911) – protons, neutrons, and electrons only; "everyday" matter. The Russian label is the same as that of Q28921572, so that's a source of confusion that could be fixed.
7. substance (Q10683158) – "any composed matter whose origin is either biological, chemical, or mineral"; I read this as referring to bulk (ordinary) matter but not isolated particles. The Russian description is much more vague.
8. material (Q214609) – "substance that can occur in different amounts ... and with which objects can be made"; unlike substance (Q10683158) (which looks like it can also occur in different amounts), this seems to be limited to inputs of human manufacturing processes (and possibly, per the has characteristic (P1552) statements, to solids).

Swpb (talk) 14:07, 28 July 2023 (UTC)