Property talk:P9732

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citizen's initiatives URL
URL for a service where citizens can start a petition or initiative

Represents	ballot initiative (Q660064)
Data type	URL
Domain	legislature (Q11204) or government organization (Q2659904)
Example	European Parliament (Q8889) → https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/en/home Folketing (Q209151) → https://www.borgerforslag.dk/ Parliament of the United Kingdom (Q11010) → https://petition.parliament.uk/ Lysekil Municipality (Q503173) → https://www.lysekil.se/kommun-och-politik/dialog-fragor-och-synpunkter/medborgarforslag.html
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P9732 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 816 Main statement 812 99.5% of uses Qualifier 4 0.5% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P9732#Scope, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P9732#Entity types

Type “legislature (Q11204), government organization (Q2659904)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “legislature (Q11204), government organization (Q2659904)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P9732#Type Q11204, Q2659904, SPARQL

Single best value: this property generally contains a single value. If there are several, one would have preferred rank (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P9732#single best value, SPARQL

If they have a page telling you to send an email or on paper

What is the guidelines for this property for webpages telling you to send the petition or initiative as an email or on a paper?

• Examples in Sweden/swedish
  • Email
    • Mellerud Municipality (Q501438) - web page
  • Signed paper
    • Piteå Municipality (Q507656) - web page
    • Nässjö Municipality (Q505096) - web page
    • Vimmerby Municipality (Q505057) - webpage
    • Strömsund Municipality (Q514770) - webpage
    • Grästorp Municipality (Q503148) - webpage
    • Strängnäs Municipality (Q501532) - webpage
  • Depends...
    • Orsa Municipality (Q504630) - webpage

- Salgo60 (talk) 23:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Does someone know if there are other properties that have similar issues? If so is there an existing pattern of how to deal with it (like a qualifier)? I have mixed feelings regarding if they should be included or not. Abbe98 (talk) 08:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Abbe98 I feel we should have them both but have one or more qualifier that tells if it is

• electronic support
• electronic support but just for citizen living in xxx authorized with BankID (Q77700695)
• media = paper
• media = e-mail
• ....

Map what we have today

• • Swedish Municipalities missing P9732

- Salgo60 (talk) 12:01, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe @Ainali: has ideas or thoughts? Abbe98 (talk) 09:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I have mixed feelings too, but a qualifier might be useful as it seems to be quite common to have a process, but not a 100% web based one. What property could be used? distribution format (P437) or input device (P479) sounds decent (but their constraints are not set up for it now). Ainali (talk) 10:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Ainali, Abbe98: as I feel always when you start looking into the data see map Swedish 191 Municipalities its a small chaos

1. the Swedish word "Medborgarförslag" is not used by everyone. Its defined in The Swedish Local Government Act (Q10547391) see "8 kap. Delaktighet och insyn. Why do they use another name? Is it to avoid The Swedish Local Government Act (Q10547391) ?!?!?!
   1. "Medborgardialog" is one alternative
   2. many invent new names "Mjölbyförslag", "E-förslag" / "E-förslag"/ "E-förslag", "Karlshamnsförslaget" , "Medborgarinitiativ", "Medborgarnas förslagslåda/....
      1. or more names "förslag/e-förslag/e-petition

• My feeling this is a minor chaos so just start create a map and learn what we have today is a realistic small step.
• I have had some contact with the NSÖD project that are spending 16 million Skr and they feels very lost and is in desperate search of delivering something.... maybe we could ask them to deliver some guidelines?.... When I check what they have done so far it feels like a "party for external consultants" having problem deliver value....

Any other ideas of moving this forward? I dont feel Agency for Digital Government (Q56302089) can add value... any other suggestions more than add as many we can find... - Salgo60 (talk) 13:26, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Another interesting approach is Burlöv Municipality (Q186662) that feels the quality of suggestions received are to bad see link... next step is maybe that we abolish democracy (Q7174) as people vote on the wrong people ;-) - Salgo60 (talk) 13:43, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes in some cases it might be exactly to be clear and explicit on that it is not something covered by The Swedish Local Government Act (Q10547391). For example in Göteborg where they call it Göteborgsförslaget and also say:

Göteborgsförslaget är Göteborgs Stads namn på e-förslag. Ett e-förslag, eller e-petition, är ett förslag på en åtgärd från en medborgare till kommunens politiker. Förslaget läggs ut på webben och andra medborgare kan stödja förslaget genom att signera det. Medborgarförslag är något annat än e-förslag och innebär enligt kommunallagen en möjlighet för den som är folkbokförd i en kommun att väcka ärenden i fullmäktige om frågor inom kommunens ansvarsområden. Kommunfullmäktige i Göteborgs Stad har inte infört medborgarförslag.

Ainali (talk) 14:01, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

For me it feels just confusing and bad design to "invent" your own not well defined name... I guess everything you request must be "inom kommunens ansvarsområden" ?!?!? or?

• one need I can see is to request open data (Q309901) in a more formal way and that request possibility should not just be possible to do for citizens... see my informal requests of better open data (Q309901) about outdoor gyms - list of informal requests
• see this question and comments in Swedish how confusing everything feels

- Salgo60 (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

While an interesting discussion, I think we are now off topic for this property. Ainali (talk) 17:14, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Ainali Ok we need to mpve this forward somehow.... can you summarize what you think how this property should be used in Sweden from lesson learned above and the usage you intended when proposing it?

1. is it for just services stated "medborgarförslag" or also for other "flavors"?
   1. in the property request it was stated "start a petition or initiative"
2. "URL for a service" is that defined as just electronic or also paper
3. a stopped service like Burlöv Municipality (Q186662) link - should we delete it, change the rank or do noithing

A list what we have in Sweden

- Salgo60 (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

1. So considering that the laws will vary over jurisdictions, and that in some it might only be a suggestion whereas in others they might lead to a full referendum I think we should capture all sorts of initiatives, petitions and proposals as long as they are created by the public organization themselves.

2. The link should go to the most actionable page there is, and I like your idea on a qualifier to show what kind of action the resident may take. What did you think of my proposals for properties for that?

3. We should keep it, but it should have an end date. As with other things with end date, they should not get a deprecated rank. Ainali (talk) 18:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Summary

Trying to summarize the discussion above, we should try to use these qualifiers:

• language of work or name (P407) with the language the page the URL leads to have
• if applicable, use main regulatory text (P92). For example, for Swedish municipalities with the value The Swedish Local Government Act (Q10547391) or if is something else, use novalue
• title (P1476), which is extra useful if there is no legal basis, but something unique
• distribution format (P437) that makes clear how the service is designed (for example with letter (Q133492), email (Q9158), service on Internet (Q1668024) etc)
• if the service has ended, record that with end time (P582)

-- Ainali (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

language

I guess a good qualifier would be language of the e-service. Not everyone speaks every language.... - Salgo60 (talk) 23:38, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Indeed and some of them might have different URLs for different languages. Abbe98 (talk) 08:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Abbe98 I found out today that a Swedish medical app kry.se deliver support for 25 languages.... see in Swedish "Kry.se förstår att alla i Sverige inte kan svenska eller tänker dom fel?" feels odd that we dont see this language support for citizen's initiatives - Salgo60 (talk) 11:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC)