Property talk:P6271

Documentation

demonym of
item that this sense is a demonym of

Represents

demonym (Q217438)

Data type

Item

Example

According to this template:

Parisian (en) → Paris (Q90)
parizano (eo) → Paris (Q90)
Parisien (fr) → Paris (Q90)
Parijzenaar (nl) → Paris (Q90)

According to statements in the property:
no label (L25620-S1) → Paris (Q90)
no label (L26359-S1) → Paris (Q90)
no label (L673203-S1) → Michigan (Q1166)
no label (L623220-S1) → Arkansas (Q1612)

When possible, data should only be stored as statements

for adjectives?[edit]

@Tubezlob, ArthurPSmith, JakobVoss, Denny, Jura1:@VIGNERON, Susannaanas, Jura1, Cwf97, Jc86035: should this be used for adjectives? the lexeme challenge features französisch (L344971) (french). That seems wrong to me. A french fry is not an inhabitant of france 🤣 --- Loominade (talk) 10:34, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, I would think only proper nouns for the inhabitants of a place. It's a pretty limited property, not sure we really needed it. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

+1, I does feel wrong (there is maybe some exception but französisch (L344971) doesn't feel to be one of them; @Nikki:).

We have pertainym of (P8471) which feel more appropriate for this kind of relation.

@ArthurPSmith: this property is specific but it doesn't feel "limited" (even in one language we can have millions of use in theory) and it feels definitely needed.

Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 17:49, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I did a quick query to see on which lexical categories it is use right now:

#defaultView:BubbleChart
SELECT ?lexCat ?lexCatLabel (COUNT(?l) AS ?number) WHERE {
  ?l wikibase:lexicalCategory ?lexCat ; ontolex:sense ?s .
  ?s wdt:P6271 [] .
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
}
GROUP BY ?lexCat ?lexCatLabel

Try it!

Surprisingly, there is a lot of adjectives! So I'm pinging the top 5 user of this property: @Andreasmperu, C. Erwan, Jon Harald Søby, Ainali, Hameryko:

Hello. I don't know how it works in other languages, but in Spanish demonyms are considered more adjectives than nouns (see "french": francés). They can also be used as nouns if you precede them with an article, but in that case it is considered a nominalisation of the adjective more than a noun by itself.

For example, in the sentence "A French man has drunk water" you can say it in the following two ways:

- Un hombre francés ha bebido agua. -> Here "francés" (french) is an adjective

- Un francés ha bebido agua. -> Here "francés" (french) is preceded by an article ("un") so it works like a noun, but it is a nominalized adjective

--Hameryko (talk) 22:47, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I quote : demonym typography in French

According to the typographical conventions of French:

- the noun demonym is capitalized,

- the corresponding adjective does not take the capital letter,

- the language names (or glottonyms), which often correspond to demonym, do not take the capital letter either.

it can therefore for me 3 different lexemes, for example:

- Niçois: a noun meaning an inhabitant of Nice.

- niçois: the adjective referring to Nice city or region.

- niçois: the dialect spoken in Nice and its region. C. Erwan (talk) 06:38, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hameryko, C. Erwan: i guess in both cases there should be a lexeme for both the noun and the adjective. like in english German (L34488) (noun) and German (L684196) (adjective). only the noun sense that represents the demonym should hold the demonym of (P6271) property which is the case for the noun variants of these words (if the english wiktionary is to be trusted). --Loominade (talk) 10:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

we agree with regard to French cannot be capped on a noun and good practice is to position it in the sense but if we take L55974 for example ... I don't know if this is true or not because I don't speak Spanish? C. Erwan (talk) 08:50, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

here: L297219 Here is an example where the use is wrong: we use an adjective so it is not the demonym, and it is not entered in the right place . C. Erwan (talk) 07:09, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that in Spanish a demonym is considered an adjective so, even if an element is created for the noun form (created by nominalization of the adjective), the property should go in both.

In fact, the element of Wikidata for demonym (demonym (Q217438)), in its label in Spanish, says: «adjective that indicates geographical origin, especially referring to people». Similarly, the Wikipedia in Spanish says «the demonym adjective is the one that denotes a relationship with a geographical place».

In the case of placing the property in both, it would be as follows: Lexeme:L55974#S1 (adjective) and Lexeme:L55975#S2 (noun).

--Hameryko (talk) 01:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's right ... so it happens that it depends on the language of the country ... sometimes it's only on the noun (as in France) ... sometimes it's on the 2 .. . C. Erwan (talk) 08:21, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Description en français[edit]

Bonjour @VIGNERON, C. Erwan:,
Que pensez-vous de « lieu (élément) de ce gentilé (sens) » pour la description française ? Cordialement. Eihel (talk) 19:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Eihel: pas fan des parenthèses, plutôt « propriété pour relier l'élément d'un lien au sens de ce gentilé » ? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 19:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vrai @VIGNERON:, mais faudrait un mix entre toi et moi, car on ne voit pas d'élément décrit comme « élément pour… ». Par exemple, « élément d'un lieu au sens d'un lexème de gentilé ». Cordialement. ―Eihel (talk) 19:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Property talk:P6271

Documentation

for adjectives?[edit]

Description en français[edit]

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