Property talk:P227/human

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Maintenance lists for GND ID (P227)
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Property talk:P227
/human
faulty
/wanted
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Reason for subpages for type human:

  1. As of 2023-02-10 1264287 items of type human (Q5) have a P227 property (https://w.wiki/6KkZ). Property talk:P227 states for "current uses" : "Main statement 1,470,703", that means ca. 85% of the items having a P227 main statement are of the type human (Q5).
  2. Some editors may prefer to work on items about humans, let them have pages focused on that.
  3. Standard tools for maintenance of constraint violations don't have an option to define constraints limited to a type (here: human)

Subcategories

  1. faulty
  2. sparse
  3. wanted
    • task: add P227 claims, details at subpage /wanted

User:Magnus Manske/gnd reveal.js

  1. doesn't copy year of birth example: Felix Hensel (Q103014497) diff web.archive.org

Discussion[edit]

Wartungslisten[edit]

copied from https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Humanisator&diff=prev&oldid=1836151081
Hallo Humanisator, wir haben mehr bereits mehr Wartungslisten als Leute, die sie abarbeiten. Bitte nicht jeden Tag neue erstellen (Property talk:P227/human/wanted/IRIS). Schau' dir bitte auch noch mal das mehrdeutige Datenobjekt Afterlife (Q116790578) an. Auf den Ping in Talk:Q116790578 hast du bislang nicht reagiert. Gruß --Kolja21 (talk) 02:26, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Bitte nicht jeden Tag neue erstellen" - I am not doing that. Humanisator (talk) 12:19, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kolja21: maybe you didn't see that? Humanisator (talk) 20:58, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just take a look at Template:P227/history with cryptic entries linke "/human (PI2)" while creating items like this "organisation". First no answer then flooding Talk:Q116790578 by drag & drop edits. Kolja21 (talk) 21:04, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you have an issue with edits in that template, please discuss it there. If you have an issue with "this organisation", please discuss it there. If you have an issue with "First no answer then flooding Talk:Q116790578 by drag & drop edits." please discuss it there. Nothing of that has to do with "Wartungslisten ... Bitte nicht jeden Tag neue erstellen". Humanisator (talk) 21:43, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

copied from https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Humanisator&diff=prev&oldid=1836646805
Der Hinweis scheint nicht gefruchtet zu haben. Jetzt hast du fünf italienischsprachige User angepingt und eine umfangreiche Diskussion auf Wikidata talk:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS#Collaborazioni e corsi - GND gestartet. Der Diskussionsaufwand ist beträchtlich und hält viele Editoren von der Arbeit ab. Das Verhalten kommt mir bekannt vor. @Humanisator: Unter welchen Benutzernamen warst du früher angemeldet? @Epìdosis, Emu, MisterSynergy: Do you remember the name of the user that have shown the same behavior? --Kolja21 (talk) 20:33, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. "Der Hinweis scheint nicht gefruchtet zu haben." what do you mean? I didn't create a new list every day before you came to my talk page, nor did I do so afterwards.
  2. "Der Diskussionsaufwand ist beträchtlich und hält viele Editoren von der Arbeit ab." - do you have any proof for that? Epìdosis found my proposals interesting and Emu and MisterSynergy have not been pinged nor otherwise involved. Humanisator (talk) 20:40, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hallo Humanisator, bitte keine neuen Fragen, sondern eine Antwort darauf, unter welchem Benutzernamen du früher aktiv warst. Wir hatten das alles doch schon mal. --Kolja21 (talk) 21:22, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know what you refer to. The topic is Wartungslisten. Maybe you start to write content related to topic A into areas or sections named topic A and content related to topic B into areas or sections named topic B? Otherwise it is a bit chaotic, to use your own words. What is your problem with the maintenance pages newly created by me, so far, all I can see the only difference to those you are working on is that they are highly automated, Listeria generated and made by me, while those you work on are mostly manually maintained and not created by me, sometimes by you. And you work on dozens of such pages while I try to keep the number of such pages to a minimum. Humanisator (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kolja21 Ja, folgt nach kurzer Betrachtung offenbar einigermaßen typisch dem Standardprozere nach der Checkliste auf Wikidata:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/MrProperLawAndOrder#27_June_2021. Ich bin in den nächsten Tagen leider nur unregelmäßig online, aber vielleicht können @Epìdosis oder @MisterSynergy hier einspringen? --Emu (talk) 00:05, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Danke für den Hinweis! User:HumanAFuser (eine der Sockenpuppen) war der Namen, der mir nicht einfiel. Die Masseneinspielungen von User:MrProperLawAndOrder waren zwar nicht perfekt, ich möchte sie aber nicht missen, da sie mir schon häufig geholfen haben. Schade, dass die Zusammenarbeit nicht klappt. Jedes Mal läuft es gut an, dann wird es chaotisch und zum Schluss muss der User, trotz zahlreicher guter Edits, gesperrt werden. @Epìdosis: Sorry for writing in German. --Kolja21 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Emu, Kolja21: I agree that many actions of Humanisator show relevant similarities with the ones of the two aforementioned users (interest in GND and lists etc.), with some good edits in ns0 and good efforts in the organization of work in other namespaces, but sometimes degenerating into long discussions which tend to be a loss of time; in the previous cases, the final phase was marked by big imports of items from GND, while this time (at least as of now) there seems to be an improvement, the focus seems to have shifted to adding GND to existing items. While recognizing that the user does many good edits, I agree that there are also relevant issues. I'm unsure if we have already reached the moment in which a block would be necessary, since good edits are still a relevant proportion, but I wouldn't object if you judge it necessary. --Epìdosis 10:49, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that the person in question has a lot to give to Wikidata, let’s keep in mind that this issue has been resolved by the community at large in the most drastic sense possible. --Emu (talk) 11:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Es ist leider keine Besserung in Sicht. Nachdem er die neue Liste Property talk:P227/human/wanted/no value/DNB edition erstellt hat, kopiert Humanisator die Einträge aus Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND in die jeweiligen Datenobjekte. Er suggeriert eigene Recherche (die von User:Epìdosis stammt) und macht uns doppelt Arbeit. (Statt einer müssen jetzt zwei identische Wartungslisten abgearbeitet werden.) Auf Ansprache auf seiner Benutzerseite regiert er wie früher mit Löschung des Hinweises. @Emu, MisterSynergy: FYI. --Kolja21 (talk) 00:57, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is different:
  1. "Nachdem er die neue Liste Property talk:P227/human/wanted/no value/DNB edition erstellt hat"
    1. 20 Feb 14:02 The list was created by user:Epìdosis [1]
    2. 20 Feb 14:27 Kolja21 was informed about it [2]
    3. 20 Feb 18:00 Kolja21 wrote: "looks good and I'll be happy to work with this list." [3]
    4. 20 Feb 18:05 edited by user:Kolja21 as the second editor [4]
    5. The page was moved from the user space by user:Epìdosis and Kolja21 informed, including about a conversion of the reports at Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2023/02 and the deletion of that page [5]
    6. 20 Feb 23:18 user:Kolja21 wrote: "Perfect. Thanks! --Kolja21 (talk) 23:18, 20 February 2023 (UTC)" [6][reply]
  2. So, there was an agreement that the new system is better, because duplicates are avoided and customizable sorting and filtering is possible, cf. Wikidata talk:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND and the texts from 20 Feb cited above
  3. "Er suggeriert eigene Recherche" - no, evidently not, since I used the old dates - like Epìdosis when he converted -, and I said so 22:40 [7]
  4. "und macht uns doppelt Arbeit. (Statt einer müssen jetzt zwei identische Wartungslisten abgearbeitet werden.) " - Kolja21 didn't explain what is "doppelt Arbeit" here. The new system works via automated reports via Listeria, there is nothing to edit, it is less work than in the old system, the person adding an GND doesn't need to report "done" anywhere, but just does her work. In the old system "done" was written on the maintenance page, e.g. 75x at Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2022/01. So the conversion of the entries in the page Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2023/01 actually reduced the future workload for contributors when the add a GND ID to one of the humans in question to Wikidata.
Events today:
  1. 20:08 Kolja21 has his last edit before a break [8]
  2. 22:18 to 22:31 I converted the items in the old system for month Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2023/01 to the new system [9]
  3. 22:31 the Listeria page is updated [10]
  4. 22:40 I reported that I had converted the unprocessed items listed at Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2023/01 and asked to delete the page Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND/2023/01 [11]
  5. 00:08 Kolja21 starts editing again, adds a pl-Label on each of two items that I had converted [12] which have been in the old system since 2023-01-01 [13] [14] and he never edited before [15] [16]
  6. 00:10 Kolja21 started editing a third item [17] that was just converted and was in the old system since 2023-01-06 [18], this item too Kolja21 never edited before [19]
  7. 00:34 Kolja21 adds the GND ID [20].
  8. 00:41 Kolja21 writes another "done" at a page of the old system - the one I just proposed to be deleted [21]
  9. 00:42 after reviewing some pages I reported that there were three other pages having few lines and no edits regarding processing and that I would convert these too [22] I wrote "I volunteer to convert these to the new system, but only if the pages including 2023/01 get deleted. Then only 9 pages are left, of which 3 are done. Then Kolja21 or whoever helps can concentrate on these 6.". That would mean the quantity of the old manually managed maintenance pages would be reduced from - as before I started to work on the topic - 14 (some with almost no content) to six, working on exactly what Kolja21 complained about 02:26, 18 February 2023 - see beginning of this section - that there are more lists than people that work on them: "wir haben mehr bereits mehr Wartungslisten als Leute, die sie abarbeiten".
  10. 00:48 Kolja21 posted at my talk, claiming "Das füllt zwar deine neue Wartungsliste Property talk:P227/human/wanted/no value/DNB edition, macht uns aber doppelt Arbeit." [23] - regarding "deine neue Wartungsliste", it was not "my list" as show above, it was a list created by Epìdosis, which Kolja21 edited before me and welcomed with "Perfect. Thanks!" Yes, to have a list that is generated with Listeria was my idea, but it isn't my list.
  11. 00:48 I revert that edit, by doing so confirming that I saw it. I told Kolja21 several times before that I am not interested in having talk at random places, for an example see above "If you have an issue with edits in that template, please discuss it there. If you have an issue with "this organisation", please discuss it there. If you have an issue with "First no answer then flooding Talk:Q116790578 by drag & drop edits." please discuss it there."
  12. 00:53 I copied the user talk page message to the appropriate venue, namely the talk page of Wikidata:Gruppo Wikidata per Musei, Archivi e Biblioteche/IRIS/GND: [24]
  13. "Auf Ansprache auf seiner Benutzerseite regiert er wie früher mit Löschung des Hinweises" - I reverted his edit, and copied the content to an appropriate location, having told him several times before to choose appropriate venues for each topic, and that I am not interested in - as some people do - splitting topics around and to different places.
  14. 00:57 Kolja21 comes here, makes a deceptive posting containing several claims that are verifiably false.
  15. 01:03 Kolja21 edits an item about human not part of the old or new system [25]
  16. 01:39 Kolja21 makes the 2nd edit after the post here, not even about a human - off to other things [26], after having worked on three items which were converted, solving one of them and creating drama
It seems as if the goal of Kolja21 posting here is not to improve items about entities of type human that have or may have a P227 claim in the Wikimedia project named "Wikidata", but to create drama to intimidate a contributor and maybe get him kicked-out, a contributor who initiated some organizational changes, performed more than 2000 edits and triggered even more edits to items about such humans. And a contributor who made fewer mistakes than Kolja21 on such items, even fixed some of the mistakes (example) Kolja21 added to the Wikimedia world elsewhere [27] which then ended up in Wikidata [28] and filled Wikidata:Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P227, the format violations after in two days went down from 11 to 2 [29] but since the hostility around that fixes, e.g. Talk:Q116790578, two remain and nobody fixes them.
"wir haben mehr bereits mehr Wartungslisten als Leute, die sie abarbeiten" - why is that so? Could the behavior of some long-term contributors to human items towards new contributors in that area be the reason? Humanisator (talk) 03:28, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since you mentioned you fixing errors I cite your comment on your strange splitting up: "there is no problem here to solve", see Talk:Q116790578. You keep on moving pages and comments, you are starting parallel discussions (Property talk:P1292#Name of the property) and keep us busy like the last time. If you only performed 1000 instead of 2000 edits you would have saved us a lot of time. --Kolja21 (talk) 03:43, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes there are things that need to be fixed, sometimes not. And sometimes they can be fixed by person A but not by person B. The one introducing that GND ID to the Wikimedia world was Kolja21. It was obviously not an ID for a human, but you added it and it ended up in Wikidata, filling "Wartungslisten" ~ error reports related to P227/human. Now it is attached in Wikidata to an item that is not about a human, so from the point of view of P227/human it is solved. If you try to discuss it here at Property talk:P227/human : wrong venue! If you have an issue with Property talk:P1292#Name of the property, discuss it there, if you try to do that here: wrong venue! "You keep on moving pages and comments" - if you have an issue with such a move, discuss it there, if you try to do that here: wrong venue! Please stop filling up Property talk:P227/human#Wartungslisten with things that are unrelated. Regarding "If you only performed 1000 instead of 2000 edits you would have saved us a lot of time." - if you have an issue with 1000 of my edits, discuss that next to these edits, if you try to do that here, but not showing any relation to P227/human error reports: wrong venue! Humanisator (talk) 01:43, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata Query Service[edit]

copied from https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property_talk:P227/human/wanted/named_after&oldid=1832068701

  1. Germany-related
    1. https://w.wiki/6Kxz - named after (P138) = Germany and has VIAF and ISNI and at least one sitelink, check 2023-02-11, sixteen results, 5 found via VIAF and added [30] other 11 checked in DNB but not found
      @Humanisator: Thanks for the Wikidata Query Service but why this new list? Please wait creating new lists and let's focus on the existing ones. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      User:Kolja21, just tried to add more GND IDs and share the way with others so they can re-use the idea. I did 5 in ~10 min. Humanisator (talk) 22:20, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    2. https://w.wiki/6L2V - has Berlin Street ID (P10451), 239 results, 4 have VIAF, 2 ISNI, retrieved 2023-02-11
      1. https://w.wiki/6Ky5 restrict to those that have sitelinks - 111 results - checked in DNB, found ~7, one very recent, maybe created by someone from de-Wikipedia, see Talk:Q116751698. Humanisator (talk) 07:01, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks. You could rename this list: "Property talk:P227/human/Wikidata Query Service". I'm sure there are more of these useful queries. Kolja21 (talk) 22:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kolja21: can you eloborate on your proposal to rename especially that page to "Property talk:P227/human/Wikidata Query Service" and not any of the others? Humanisator (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

21:22 Uhr: "Bitte keine neuen Fragen". Keine Antwort, aber 17 Min. später die nächste Frage und wieder eine Verschiebung. Vor einer Woche schrieb ich: "Please wait creating new lists and let's focus on the existing ones." Das Ergenis ist bekannt. - Wie gesagt, wir hatten das alles schon mal. --Kolja21 (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Re: "21:22 Uhr: "Bitte keine neuen Fragen". Keine Antwort, aber 17 Min. später die nächste Frage und wieder eine Verschiebung." - I don't see any relation to "Wikidata Query Service" in this text. I replied to your message 21:22, maybe you reply there if you have an issue with my reply there? Maybe you start to write content related to topic A into areas or sections named topic A and content related to topic B into areas or sections named topic B? Otherwise it is a bit chaotic, to use your own words. Why did I create this section? You started mixing discussion with documentation, you also complaint that I didn't "react" to one of your texts, without you knowing what really happened. So, now I decided to reply to your proposal regarding renaming a page to "Wikidata Query Service" and asked for details, and this time you complain about me asking.
If you don't want to provide a topic-related answer to my reply to your "Wikidata Query Service"-proposal, you can say so, then this section can be marked as "solved" or "missing details by proposer". And editors can proceed with their work elsewhere. Humanisator (talk) 23:01, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Re: 'Vor einer Woche schrieb ich: "Please wait creating new lists and let's focus on the existing ones." Das Ergenis ist bekannt.' - I replied to your "Please..." but you didn't post any further reply. "Das Ergenis ist bekannt." - what do you refer to? Humanisator (talk) 23:03, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

wanted/no value/DNB edition[edit]

@Epìdosis: the humans listed at Property talk:P227/human/wanted/no value/DNB edition, e.g. Laura Bazzicalupo (Q93265874), use reference URL [31] and the values are links to a work in the DNB, e.g. https://d-nb.info/955443725 . For that there is a dedicated property DNB edition ID (P1292) - currently named "DNB recording". Why not use that property?

The page is named "DNB edition" despite my proposal to use DNB work. You wrote '"edition" instead of "work" because Kolja21 correctly reported me that DNB contains editions, not works'. The links lead to things that are also of type work (creation by one or more human), the links can be created using using P1292 which is named "DNB recording" I am not against using a more precise word than work, but if there is disagreement about what this DNB things are or how to call them, one could use "work" and avoid conflicts. In VIAF they have "Works" and "Expressions", but no "Editions". Humanisator (talk) 00:53, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Humanisator: regarding DNB edition ID (P1292), theoretically I'm fine with using it, but I initially discarded it because of the single value constraint which would create problems e.g. in Q2268618#P227; if you have solutions for such cases, I would support (and do myself) the conversion of all reference URL (P854) to P1292. Regarding the name, the standard name of P1292 is "DNB editions" (it was changed recently to "DNB recording" without consensus, I've just restored the previous name), so I think the title "DNB edition" is perfectly fine for our report subpage. --Epìdosis 09:36, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
P1292 single-value constraint, solved: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q2268618&diff=prev&oldid=1838756646 Humanisator (talk) 18:02, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fact and source based method to derive the name of the property proposed at: Property talk:P1292#Name of the property Humanisator (talk) 19:17, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, solved P1292 (readapted existing reports and examples, everything working well). Regarding "edition", in case a consensus is found to change the label of P1292 the title of the report page could be updated accordingly. Thanks, --Epìdosis 20:18, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

no value[edit]

2017-08-21 at Kurt Haverbeck (Q439714) Property:P227 was set to "no value" [32] by user:Kolja21. But the three linked pages VIAF ( DNB|143517600 add 2011-03-18T07:36:25+00:00), ISNI and de-Wikipedia (since 2020-06-21 [33] by user:Emu) each contain GND=143517600 . Is the "no value" blocking imports from these sources or why was the long-existing value not imported, especially from de-Wikipedia and VIAF? Humanisator (talk) 01:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023-02-21 05:15 Kurt Haverbeck (Q439714) Property:P227 changed by user:Kolja21 https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q439714&diff=prev&oldid=1838389348 Humanisator (talk) 19:21, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property_talk:P227/human&oldid=1938830674"