Wikidata:Property proposal/sort by qualifier

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sort by qualifier[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Property metadata

   Not done
Descriptionwhich qualifier to use when sorting property values
Data typeProperty
DomainWikidata property (Q18616576)
Allowed valuesWikidata qualifier (Q15720608)
Examplelocated in the administrative territorial entity (P131)start time (P580)
author (P50)series ordinal (P1545)

For use in gadgets, modules, and possibly in the future in the Wikidata interface when displaying property values. —putnik 03:20, 31 May 2017 (UTC)



Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Properties

  • It would be useful to have semantics that allow for multiple qualifiers sorted by the order of priority. ChristianKl (talk) 10:28, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
    • I think it is possible to use series ordinal (P1545) for this. —putnik 15:59, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
      • Okay, I think it would be good to have specific examples of how that will work, so people don't make up different solutions on-the-fly. ChristianKl (talk) 11:15, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support this sounds very useful. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:57, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment This certainly has appeal for the Wikidata interface, but I am less sure how well it would play out for the potentially many gadgets, modules and other tools that might interact with such a property and which might prefer to sort things differently, either by default or depending on additional constraints (e.g. user preferences). Perhaps of (P642) might be useful here as an additional qualifier to indicate the tool if the default sort differs from the default for the Wikidata interface? --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 05:48, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Sounds interesting, but doesn't sorting tend to vary depending on use/purpose? I tend to agree with Daniel. criterion used (P1013) might do as a qualifier for this property.
    --- Jura 06:08, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
  • ChristianKl


Pictogram voting comment.svg Notified participants of WikiProject Properties @putnik: @LydiaPintscher: Any ideas of how we want to proceed with the proposal? ChristianKl (talk) 14:08, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

    • Hi from beach vacation ;-) I think a good next step is get a short list of things we'd want to sort and look at the concrete cases. If we have a good idea about that I think it would make sense to have a property like this. Maybe we don't have that many different ones and we can somehow make this work in the software itself without it? I am not sure so let's look at concrete cases. --LydiaPintscher (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Having to hard-code the sort information in each tool is obviously bad. Tools can still ignore or override the sort information but there sure is a typical sort criteria for most cases. -- JakobVoss (talk) 08:02, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I think we'll gather a few examples where sorting makes sense:
Quantitative comparison of retrosigmoid intradural suprameatal approach and retrosigmoid transtentorial approach: implications for tumors in the petroclival region. (Q30429809) uses author name string (P2093) which should sort after series ordinal (P1545)
no label (Q12340039) It would be nice to have constant sorting of standard time (Q1777301) and daylight saving time (Q36669). This might need the user of determining an order of items that aren't numeric in nature.
It might be worth to sort sibling (P3373) after date of birth. ChristianKl () 15:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
standard time (Q1777301) and daylight saving time (Q36669) are items, which describe concepts in the outside world. It is not possible to enter them as values in Wikidata. Jc3s5h (talk) 16:23, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
They are items, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't want sorting in this case. We might introduce a solution that doesn't sort them but it's still useful to have all relevant examples in a list. ChristianKl () 20:58, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment In general, dated items should be sorted by date, earliest to latest. Also I'd like to see multipart references sorted in a standard way in the UI. See for example Roman de Brut (Q281852), the reference for <based on> ought to sort:
  • stated in
  • title (where present if parts have titles)
  • section/verse (where present, for encyclopedias and dictionaries)
  • author or author name string (where present)
  • date of publication (where present)
  • reference URL (where present)
  • retrieved date (where present) - PKM (talk) 21:54, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I Symbol support vote.svg Support a meta-use of this meta-property: sort by qualifiersort by qualifier  series ordinal (P1545)! --Deryck Chan (talk) 15:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
  • BA candidate.svg Weak oppose - I agree with Lydia that we would need concrete examples of cases where this property would be really needed. In general it seems that the same heuristics could be applied uniformly for all properties, such as sorting by date for dated claims. It is less clear for quantities: for series ordinal (P1545) we would want to sort by increasing order, but for proportion (P1107) we could want to show the highest amount first (for instance in election results, or shareholders of companies) - but this proposal does not provide a way to switch between ascending and descending orders either. Finally, we would need strong backing of the development team on this, because the order of statements inside a given property is something that is stored explicitly in the data model currently (unlike the ordering of the different properties on an item). So there are significant technical changes involved: do we want the interface to automatically reorder the statements according to this qualifier before saving the change? Should this be done just by the Wikibase UI or somewhere lower down in the backend (so that it also affects bots?) Is that going to preserve the statement ids? What if people want to set the order manually in some cases (which is currently tedious, but possible)? − Pintoch (talk) 08:28, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
  • GA candidate.svg Weak support I don't think including these will break anything .. if it can be useful for some purposes, all the better. I'm not sure if querying the sort qualifier is really easier than writing it down ..
    --- Jura 16:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose unless an example is provided where a global list doesn't work. --Pasleim (talk) 15:31, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done Too much uncertainty about the potential uses of this property.--Micru (talk) 08:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)